When The MM Leaves For the OW....

[OpenBook]

If that person goes into a new relationship and things get difficult, will they have different coping skills or will they resort to the same behaviors.

 

That is a very good question, bent. NID didn't put it out there like that (as she expressed her opinion that the MM apparently doesn't work on his M or his own issues before choosing the A route, then asked for input - so I gave her mine!! that she was assuming way too much). But you have a valid point. It is a risk that the OW takes if she ends up with him.

 

But then again, isn't that the same risk the BS took when she married him? It's the same risk that we ALL take when we choose to commit to someone, isn't it? We can never be 100% sure of what they will do, ever. Or how the combination of "US" will play out years down the road.

 

Did you know about your xH's "coping skills" when you married him? Did you examine his past behavior for clues? Did you believe at the time that no sane woman should ever go near him?

 

It's an absolute crapshoot to take a chance on a man, any man, IMO... no matter what they've done (or not done) in the past.

 

So not only do I disagree with NID's premise that MM don't work on their own issues/marriage pre-A... but I say it's irrelevant. We can talk all day long about it, but it's not going to give us any more control over the future.

[bentnotbroken]

That is a very good question, bent. NID didn't put it out there like that (as she expressed her opinion that the MM apparently doesn't work on his M or his own issues before choosing the A route, then asked for input - so I gave her mine!! that she was assuming way too much). But you have a valid point. It is a risk that the OW takes if she ends up with him.

 

But then again, isn't that the same risk the BS took when she married him? It's the same risk that we ALL take when we choose to commit to someone, isn't it? We can never be 100% sure of what they will do, ever. Or how the combination of "US" will play out years down the road.

 

Did you know about your xH's "coping skills" when you married him? Did you examine his past behavior for clues? Did you believe at the time that no sane woman should ever go near him?

 

It's an absolute crapshoot to take a chance on a man, any man, IMO... no matter what they've done (or not done) in the past.

 

So not only do I disagree with NID's premise that MM don't work on their own issues/marriage pre-A... but I say it's irrelevant. We can talk all day long about it, but it's not going to give us any more control over the future.

 

 

I definitely didn't have examine any past issues we were pretty young when we met(HS) and married in our early 20's so nope. Hell I didn't even examine myself I guess I made the same stupid assumption a lot of people make when they marry...things that were childish and irresponsible when you were single(in our case teens) would magically disappear and all the pieces would fall into place because that's what the standards of western society says. I wub and nothing else matters. It was a rude awaking when I realized that nothing I assumed had come to pass.

 

I don't think she meant it as having control, but having different options to deal with "the real" so to speak.

[White Flower]

Its been said here that the OW can't win in the affair or out of it when the MM leaves for her.

 

I can't claim to answer for all posters, but for me, its not about the OW. Its about the MM. It just comes across as if he didn't really try to save his marriage or put any real work into it. Having the affair is the first sign of him not really working on it anymore.

This is my opinion. I don't think anyone hates to see an OW "get her man". Its just that "her man" didn't seem to do any real work on fixing his "issues".

 

I know that there ARE some posters that do hate to see an OW "get her man", but I am not one of them.

 

Anyone else want to chime in?

Or it could be the first sign of him recognizing there is no way to fix it? It can go either way. So many variables in a world full of choices and perspectives.

 

We like to believe he should have just left if he couldn't fix the M but so often that doesn't happen. It can also be said that the affair is the first sign of him working on himself. Not saying that is true, just what many think. It may even be what he thinks.

[White Flower]

Since I'm in a similar situation, I'm going to respond to this even though it's not directed at me:

 

 

 

My DID try to work on his previous M. There had been a previous split (before I met him, not over an A) and he took her back only on the condition that she agreed to MC. But she stormed out of MC and refused to go back - to the same one or anyone else - when the MC implied that she (the xW) may be responsible for some of the issues in the M because of her bullying, etc. She refused to accept that she was in any way "at fault" and so "working on the M" ground to a halt. In retrospect, it wasn't too long after that that I met him - although I only pounced on him later, once I'd checked him out thoroughly first

 

Sometimes the problems in the M are NOT the sole responsibility of the WS's brokenness. Sometimes the BS is at least partially to blame. I'm not denying - nor would he - that my H was broken during his previous M. A healthy man would not have allowed himself to be treated so badly for such a long time, as he did. A healthy man would not have taken back an abusive W without some very clear agreement - with penalties for failing to stick to it - whatever the perceived distress of the kids. A healthy man would have kicked her to the curb long ago and started a healthy R with a healthy woman rather than doing that in parallel with his broken M. However, he recognised his brokenness as a result of the A, and went to IC - which helped him see just how broken his M was, and how his own brokenness had allowed his xW's abusive behaviour to flourish in the M... The work he did through (and beyond) his IC helped him to "fix" himself, to leave his abusive M and to make a proper home for his kids without his xW - and to set the stage for a full-time, healthy R with me.

 

Unlike GEL, we haven't been to counselling as a couple - because the problems were not with our R. The problems were with him (addressed through IC) and with his M (addressed through D) but if we were in need of any counselling, for sure we'd be there.

 

So no, I don't see his leaving his M as a sign of any failure on his part - OTC, it was a great victory and the culmination of a great deal of work on his part to get to the point where he could acknowledge, express, and act on his OWN needs and not just those of other people.

On that note (bolded) I have to say that I am in a particularly interesting place. MM is in counseling now for himself. He does not want his W to go but he has given his counselor permission to allow me to come in and talk about him. He wants me to be able to get counseling over all we've been through and he feels anything I would offer up to his counselor regarding him will help him in his counseling journey. His W knows nothing of anything because he just does not have a connection with her.

 

She asked him if she should be going with him to counseling or if she should go alone. He said, 'No, this is about me'.

 

At this point I assume that she believes he is getting help for his M. But he is really getting help for himself. Should be interesting to see how this story ends.

[Agent_99]

I agree that there was likely a reason he strayed in that marriage, but I think he should have dealt with that reason. That is where I stand. Its all water under the bridge at this point. That marriage is over.

 

If we put A's aside, and thought about single people. Everyone has 'baggage'. When you are dating or developing a new relationship with someone, you learn about that 'baggage' and either the person works through it or they don't. So then adding A back, yes there are issues. I mean I come with baggage. I have issues around trust, not because of my MW, but because of my xH. I've been to counseling over it and 'worked though it' but I still have nightmares about betrayal, and still have a small part of me that always thinks that I'm being lied to in certain situations. But I have accepted that part of myself and I'm honest about it with anyone that I get involved with.

 

Well, an OW sometimes comes in the picture because the M does not work anymore. Sometimes the MM has tried for years to be happy in the relationship but comes to the conclusion that he can do as much effort as he wants, he can't improve his M. It take two to tango.

 

Why are people here always talking about the "issues" of the MM and/or the OM/OW? Sometimes the fact of falling in love with someone else than the spouse, is a healthy reflex.

 

I agree. My MW had tried for years to make their relationship work before I came along. She had accepted that their R would never be what she needed on certain levels, but it does fullfill a lot of other needs.

 

We actually started the A, not to fall in love, but so that we could both get our sexual needs met. We didn't want or intend to fall for each other, and we really had NO clue the depth that our bond would take once we realized we were falling for each other.

[NoIDidn't]

I don't want to speak for NID and I could be wrong, but isn't she saying that it "it comes across" a certain way, whether it is true for all cases(which we all know you can never say "all" as there are always exceptions to any situation) or not. Wouldn't it be true that what she says that the affair is a sign that some MM aren't putting anything into the marriage anymore, he is putting it all into the R with the AP?

 

She did say it was her opinion and asked others for their thoughts. I do beleive that some BS do accept responsibility for the marital problems, I certainly added my fair share of crap to the table, but doesn't the responsiblity for the choice of the A lay with the person who chose to engage in? If that person goes into a new relationship and things get difficult, will they have different coping skills or will they resort to the same behaviors. The same can be said for the BS, whatever issues they have need to be dealt with before entering a new relationship. Because if you do the same things wrong you will get the same outcome. Right?

 

I don't believe that attraction to another person is the thing that leads to infidelity. I think that feeding that attraction is the thing that leads to that. Should one examine why they choose to feed that attraction instead of deal with what is in front of them, whether it leads to rebuilding or divorce. An example: Owoman explained her situation that her H did do counseling to deal with the issues he had in his previous marriage. He dealt with the thing that lead him to an A, not standing up for himself. He has learned new coping mechanisms. That's not to say Owoman is anything like FW, but that any situation that arises he won't ever be put in a position again to make the choice to have an A. Just my thoughts anyway.

 

Thank you, bent for understanding my query. I didn't ask for my opinion to be attacked. Its just an opinion. Never once did I "blame" anyone for the A. I just stated that IMNSHO the A is a symptom of other issues that the MM SHOULD be looking into. How that gets turned into "blaming the OW" is beyond me?

 

<shrugs>

[NoIDidn't]

In my case my MM did not realize there even WAS a problem in his marriage until he fell in love with me. His attempt at NC last fall was an expression of his sincere wish to work on his marriage. Instead the NC resulted in him realizing that he was not able to work on his marriage while still emotionally tied to me. It also made him look deeper within what HE needs himself to be happy.

 

This is likely true in many cases not like the ones I was considering when I made my OP. I have heard some MM say that they didn't realize what was missing in their marriage until blank. But I've also heard them say that they wished that would have told their first wives that before having an A.

 

I recognize totally that they could still end up divorced, that's not my issue at all. Its just that they didn't really deal with it head on. They used "bat channels", if you will.

 

I think some mistake my opinion on the MM working on himself during the marriage to mean that I think that every marriage should be saved, but that's their erroneous assumption. Every marriage can't be saved. Every marriage is not meant to be. Any thinking person recognizes that fact. I know that even after addressing whatever person issues the MM had either from his M or just his, in general, can still lead to them deciding to end a marriage. No OW is required for that to happen.

[NoIDidn't]

So no, I don't see his leaving his M as a sign of any failure on his part - OTC, it was a great victory and the culmination of a great deal of work on his part to get to the point where he could acknowledge, express, and act on his OWN needs and not just those of other people.

 

This may be why so many are taking offense to my opinion. That it seems like I see it as a failure on the part of the MM. Maybe I do. I don't know. But that's the way its been presented to me IRL by the ones wishing they had done somethings differently. Each situation is different and I'm only addressing one opinion on the matter.

 

I don't disagree with you on the "great victory" comment. I'm not married to my grandmother, but she has schizophrenia and is also bi-polar. I have watched how putting her into a private senior facility really pulled at the heartstrings of her children. And I have watched how she deliberately did so in hopes of making them suffer more while she refused the help that she needed. I can only imagine how bad it gets in a marriage with someone so afflicted.

[NoIDidn't]

And how exactly do you know this, what the MM did to fix his M before he got involved with the OW's who are posting on this board? It seems you are making huge assumptions about things you know nothing about. Marriages are complicated and no two marriages are the same. And no one except the two people who are married to each other knows what REALLY goes on inside their marriage. No matter what they claim to others (witness John and Elizabeth Edwards).

 

Have you ever considered the possibility that the BS might carry some of the responsibility for the M collapsing into infidelity? Why is it always the fault of the MM or the OW, and the role of the BS in the M is never examined?

 

OB, this is just for discussion. Do you always ask for clarification by attacking a person's opinion?

 

I didn't assume anything with my opinion, I only stated it. You are right that no two marriages are the same. I never said any differently.

 

Again, you are going down the road of blame and I didn't go there or even envision this thread going there. I didn't blame anyone in the triangle for the A, I simply said the A is a distraction. Was it you that said that the BS also uses the affair as a distraction as well? If not, either way, I agree with that assessment. Many BSs say the only problem in their marriage is that their H had an affair. I disagree with that. Most often the affair is a symptom of problems in the marriage, even in the "happy" ones.

[NoIDidn't]

This:

 

 

 

contradicts this:

 

 

 

The first implies the MM makes no effort; the second implies that he makes an effort, this goes nowhere (due, possibly, to any number of factors - including the BS resisting or not caring?) and he then explores other routes of making life more bearable.

 

I don't IRL know any MMs who took option 1, ie opting for an A as their first means of dealing with problems in a M. In call cases I know IRL the MM first tried to resolve the problems within the M, before resorting to an A to help them figure out what next steps to take.

 

Not contradictory to me. I can see where you are going, but I don't see a contradiction.

 

Let me explain.

 

In one, maybe he told a distracted W what he felt the problems were, but didn't really honestly open up - or maybe he did - but, either way, it got no where and he didn't try any harder to be understood. In the other, once the affair starts, he is no longer inclined to even try to be understood anymore. He is now distracted/invested elsewhere.

 

In each case, I'm saying he made a little effort but NO follow-up effort afterwards. No one ever gets to the bottom of something with one try.

 

I'm not assuming that I know how hard a guy tries. I'm only going on what I mentioned a few posts up, what the men have told me about their regrets. Most often, they admit not really trying hard enough. Sometimes it was due to age, or immaturity on their part. Sometimes it was due to the fact that they had already decided that they were going to cheat and stay married until they couldn't take it anymore.

 

Both statements imply "giving up" not so much that no effort was ever made.

[silverfish]

Not contradictory to me. I can see where you are going, but I don't see a contradiction.

 

Let me explain.

 

In one, maybe he told a distracted W what he felt the problems were, but didn't really honestly open up - or maybe he did - but, either way, it got no where and he didn't try any harder to be understood. In the other, once the affair starts, he is no longer inclined to even try to be understood anymore. He is now distracted/invested elsewhere.

 

In each case, I'm saying he made a little effort but NO follow-up effort afterwards. No one ever gets to the bottom of something with one try.

 

I'm not assuming that I know how hard a guy tries. I'm only going on what I mentioned a few posts up, what the men have told me about their regrets. Most often, they admit not really trying hard enough. Sometimes it was due to age, or immaturity on their part. Sometimes it was due to the fact that they had already decided that they were going to cheat and stay married until they couldn't take it anymore.

 

Both statements imply "giving up" not so much that no effort was ever made.

 

I understand where you are coming from with this post I think...because I've had a hard time with it myself. Whats missing from this forum, and this whole debate, is the voice of the MM who is in an affair or who is in this situation...I dont see a lot of them voicing their feelings in here.

 

There are men who are struggling with WS or cheating, but not a lot of voices on on the A front from the men...its a shame because that would be so helpful to a lot of us in here I think..

 

So, it just seems like an endless circle of trying to work out the feelings of someone who seems absent....on here, and in real life at times.

[OldEurope]

There are men who try for years, sometimes a couple of decades, to get the marriage back on track, and just have no success. Most intelligent men of character (that is --not "players") seek to do what they can, sincerely. Most men do not want divorce. Should they fall into a serious affair, it is more a profound emotional need that drives it than "just" sex

[OpenBook]

There are men who try for years, sometimes a couple of decades, to get the marriage back on track, and just have no success. Most intelligent men of character (that is --not "players") seek to do what they can, sincerely. Most men do not want divorce. Should they fall into a serious affair, it is more a profound emotional need that drives it than "just" sex

 

Yup, I've seen that. And I've also seen a lot of MM who are simply bored with their W's and want something different sexually to put the "zing" back into their lives - but they don't want to give up the perks of having a W at home to take care of them (not to mention splitting everything in half financially). Hence the subterfuge and deception that's intricately involved with most A's.

[OpenBook]

OB' date=' this is just for discussion. [b']Do you always ask for clarification by attacking a person's opinion?[/b]

 

And do you always view those who disagree with your opinion as an attack? You put your opinion out there in your OP and then you asked for input. So that's exactly what I did. Are you (and those who agree with you) the only ones allowed to voice your opinion here? Perhaps my reading comprehension of the LS rules is different from yours.

 

I didn't assume anything with my opinion' date=' I only stated it.[/quote']

 

Um... yes you did, No I Didn't.

 

Again' date=' you are going down the road of blame and I didn't go there or even envision this thread going there. [b']I didn't blame anyone in the triangle for the A,[/b] I simply said the A is a distraction.

 

And I never said you did! I questioned the premise of your opinion that MM's don't work on their issues or the M before (or while) the A happens. How do you know that exactly?

 

Was it you that said that the BS also uses the affair as a distraction as well?

 

Nope, twarn't me.

[NoIDidn't]

And do you always view those who disagree with your opinion as an attack? You put your opinion out there in your OP and then you asked for input. So that's exactly what I did. Are you (and those who agree with you) the only ones allowed to voice your opinion here? Perhaps my reading comprehension of the LS rules is different from yours.

 

 

 

Um... yes you did, No I Didn't.

 

 

 

And I never said you did! I questioned the premise of your opinion that MM's don't work on their issues or the M before (or while) the A happens. How do you know that exactly?

 

 

 

Nope, twarn't me.

 

 

OH well, OB. You and I never agree on anything anyway. Why should this be any different.

 

I clarified what I was speaking about later, but I guess you either missed or ignored that.

 

Other than questioning my opinion, do you care to state yours?

[NoIDidn't]

There are men who try for years, sometimes a couple of decades, to get the marriage back on track, and just have no success. Most intelligent men of character (that is --not "players") seek to do what they can, sincerely. Most men do not want divorce. Should they fall into a serious affair, it is more a profound emotional need that drives it than "just" sex

 

I agree with this when it comes to long term marriages. I'm finding that the gentlemen that I reference earlier in this thread weren't married for "decades" so they don't really qualify for what you are saying.

 

I think most affairs by men are based on emotional need (known or unknown by the MM), the sex is usually, IMO, a bonus not a requirement.

[OpenBook]

OH well, OB. You and I never agree on anything anyway. Why should this be any different.

 

I clarified what I was speaking about later, but I guess you either missed or ignored that.

 

Other than questioning my opinion, do you care to state yours?

 

Already have, thanks.

[pureinheart]

And how exactly do you know this, what the MM did to fix his M before he got involved with the OW's who are posting on this board? It seems you are making huge assumptions about things you know nothing about. Marriages are complicated and no two marriages are the same. And no one except the two people who are married to each other knows what REALLY goes on inside their marriage. No matter what they claim to others (witness John and Elizabeth Edwards).

 

Have you ever considered the possibility that the BS might carry some of the responsibility for the M collapsing into infidelity? Why is it always the fault of the MM or the OW, and the role of the BS in the M is never examined?

 

I feel the same way and instead of repeating what you said OB will just add my opinion and lived experience.

 

Some of my relationships included AP some did not, yet prior to the other party becoming involved there was a breakdown and some of it was my fault. In the R's where there was not AP I had something to do with those breakdowns also.

 

It is hard and I understand, although for ones own self growth it is best to look at all angles of responsibility.

 

For me, when my H chose to be with someone else it always turned out better for me...right, wrong or indifferent....it all comes out in the wash basically. I was no saint either and was fortunate that things turned out well for me each time.

 

In my current R....I walked away many times, and it killed me each time, now I choose not to and see what happens, we are both in councelling.

 

As far as his M goes, I have communicated in other threads that the M was over a long time ago, they were just going through the motions. In fact I remember when we first started working together (and there are many details, too hard to communicate all of them, the "slant" of my opinion is based on these uncommunicated details), I encouraged him to hide his money....he said, that is weird that you told me that because my W has been telling me when youngest daughter is 18 she is gonna D me.

 

His ex W made threats all of the time, in fact the day they M'ed...and I am sure she had good reason...it was just a toxic R...period...from day 1.

 

I was not in that home, I have tried to understand "their" dynamics as to what lies are the truth and what truths are the lies....you know...

 

Kind of an update on his ex W...she met a really nice guy shortly after the S (kind of weird how they got together, exMM was telling him about the D and he jumped on exW like white on rice....lol...exMM was pissed because he felt that exW's now SO used that info to get her....go figure). Hid ex W is really happy now...her and SO go places together, she (I think) got a promotion.

 

The (grown) kids had a rough time at first, change is hard even if it is good change. Check this out though....one time I went over to SO's house because he was acting real weird (ha ha, like that is something new...lol), I never went to SO's house (and still don't) because I have to study things first before putting myself in this type of situation, out of my safe place so-to-speak.

 

Anyway, I get to his house, and he takes off (we had been fighting and I was tired of what I thought might be him lying and wanted to confront him)....well his daughter and her SO live next door and they saw me and came over ...they were like way cool and I apologized to her for anything I did and vise versa....we had a really good conversation and I told her the reason I was there and she said not to be concerned as her mom and dad hate each other...I suggested that she keep tabs on her mom to make sure her mom was ok, although I knew she had a SO I just know that both of them had a tendancy to use the kids against each other.

 

I was on the phone with SO and I heard his daughter in the back ground say "dad who is it?" and he said "PIH" and his daughter yelled, "hi, I love you PIH"....I think she was being sincere...

 

I know I did the right thing by communicating to SO the truth, that the M was over, and encouraging him to leave it.

 

It was very hard because I saw the kids playing sooooo many games (which their parents and outside sources had taught them)....I saw MM and W using the kids against each other....wow, I could go on and on with story after story, yet bottom line is, it was way toxic and I encouraged him to leave for him and do not regret any of it.

 

I think all are taking responsibility now, in my situation at least, although this is not the norm. I wish it were though, as there would be a lot more forgiveness coupled with people becoming more productive and the family adjusts much better...not so one sided, or causing others to tak sides becxause it is so one sided.

[fooled once]

I really don't think any person who wasn't IN the marriage can really know what the issues in the marriage were. Example: An OM/OW can't possibly know all the ins and outs of the 2 people married. They can speculate or believe what they were told by 1 person, but there are 3 sides to every story - his, hers and the truth

 

I believe people that tend to marry young, may not truly be ready for marriage. People change so much, IMHO, from 20 to 30 years old -- but there are MANY who choose to fight and work on those issues and there are many who choose to not and go outside their marriage to get their needs met

 

I don't believe every relationship has a time limit on it. That doesn't even make sense to me. I guess that would mean that anyone who "got" their MM/MW that their relationship has a time limit on it.

 

I was young in my first marriage -- barely knew myself and what I wanted out of life. Same with my ex. Instead of growing together, we grew apart (and various other things). By the time I was 30, I knew we wouldn't be together when we were 80.

 

My current marriage -- I DO see us together at 80 I guess our time limit is when one of us die.

 

IF in my marriage there should become an issue, I would HOPE me and/or my H would communicate it to each other before seeking outside interference (affair). If we couldn't solve our issues ourselves, we would go to a counselor to see if what we have is salvagable. If it was determined it wasn't, then we would separate. If we felt that this was best for both of us, after a trial separation, then we would divorce. I wouldn't seek out another relationship while still married (before the steps were taken to get a divorce) and I know my H woudn't either.

 

I understand NiD's question, but I also think unless we have both parties of a marriage chiming in here, we can only speculate on the WS and the BS's marriage and the issues in it.

 

I commend ANY WS for getting a divorce because of unresolvable issues in a marriage instead of just staying and being unhappy and miserable. No one should stay in any relationship where they aren't getting their needs met.

 

But I will never agree that it was the BS's fault that a WS cheated. That is a choice the WS makes. The WS can also make the choice to dissolve the relationship PRIOR to cheating.

[pureinheart]

A lot of typos in that last reply, didn't get to it fast enough...not just my normal bad spelling...lol

[pureinheart]

I really don't think any person who wasn't IN the marriage can really know what the issues in the marriage were. Example: An OM/OW can't possibly know all the ins and outs of the 2 people married. They can speculate or believe what they were told by 1 person, but there are 3 sides to every story - his, hers and the truth

 

I believe people that tend to marry young, may not truly be ready for marriage. People change so much, IMHO, from 20 to 30 years old -- but there are MANY who choose to fight and work on those issues and there are many who choose to not and go outside their marriage to get their needs met

 

I don't believe every relationship has a time limit on it. That doesn't even make sense to me. I guess that would mean that anyone who "got" their MM/MW that their relationship has a time limit on it.

 

I was young in my first marriage -- barely knew myself and what I wanted out of life. Same with my ex. Instead of growing together, we grew apart (and various other things). By the time I was 30, I knew we wouldn't be together when we were 80.

 

My current marriage -- I DO see us together at 80 I guess our time limit is when one of us die.

 

IF in my marriage there should become an issue, I would HOPE me and/or my H would communicate it to each other before seeking outside interference (affair). If we couldn't solve our issues ourselves, we would go to a counselor to see if what we have is salvagable. If it was determined it wasn't, then we would separate. If we felt that this was best for both of us, after a trial separation, then we would divorce. I wouldn't seek out another relationship while still married (before the steps were taken to get a divorce) and I know my H woudn't either.

 

I understand NiD's question, but I also think unless we have both parties of a marriage chiming in here, we can only speculate on the WS and the BS's marriage and the issues in it.

 

I commend ANY WS for getting a divorce because of unresolvable issues in a marriage instead of just staying and being unhappy and miserable. No one should stay in any relationship where they aren't getting their needs met.

 

But I will never agree that it was the BS's fault that a WS cheated. That is a choice the WS makes. The WS can also make the choice to dissolve the relationship PRIOR to cheating.

 

 

First Bold: My ex and me were in essence both right and both wrong...I know this makes no sense, we were both just stubborn. We threw stuff back and forth at each other never listening to the other.

 

Second Bold Italics: I will be 50 and am still too young...lol

 

Third Bold: Can I raise my hand:laugh:, I was WS, BS and AP...lol saw all angles....I held back the needs of my spouse and they held back my needs....both stubborn, worse than mules...lol

 

Fourth Bold Italics: Disagree on this one for the fact of holding back and people being stubborn and insensitive with each other....A's can happen soooooo easy....and imo, ok will try to explain this....with SO if you take money from him, or lie to him about money you might has well have been with AP....people see things differently, that is what causes us to be unique. I totally tripped out about how SO feels about money...lol, but it's him and he has a right to be him.

 

I want to communicate this again, (sorry FO for using your quote to do it), I talk a lot of sh*t about SO....more to his face....so please forgive me if my talking any sh*t about SO offends anyone, it is how we are with each other ....I know it's bad....

[pureinheart]

oh it's all italics in a quote.....hey people like me make everyone else look better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey I grew up with Dr Timothy Leary....K....

[pureinheart]

Its been said here that the OW can't win in the affair or out of it when the MM leaves for her.

 

I can't claim to answer for all posters, but for me, its not about the OW. Its about the MM. It just comes across as if he didn't really try to save his marriage or put any real work into it. Having the affair is the first sign of him not really working on it anymore.

 

This is my opinion. I don't think anyone hates to see an OW "get her man". Its just that "her man" didn't seem to do any real work on fixing his "issues".

 

I know that there ARE some posters that do hate to see an OW "get her man", but I am not one of them.

 

Anyone else want to chime in?

 

This may be way off topic...I tried to see a specific question so I think this is ok....

 

Why does the BS or even not BS spouse try to hang on to a dead M? I have seen it (I think) a couple of times on LS....in movies, personal friend experiences....

 

I have hung on to like feelings, although how can a person even think they can control another or make another stay in something no matter what the means are?

 

If this is way off topic, please be kind and disregard it as there is no intended malice.

[White Flower]

This may be way off topic...I tried to see a specific question so I think this is ok....

 

Why does the BS or even not BS spouse try to hang on to a dead M? I have seen it (I think) a couple of times on LS....in movies, personal friend experiences....

 

I have hung on to like feelings, although how can a person even think they can control another or make another stay in something no matter what the means are?

If this is way off topic, please be kind and disregard it as there is no intended malice.

I don't think it's off topic, I think it is related.

 

People tend to hang on because life is good for them. They don't want that to change even if that means forcing the other to feel guilty for wanting to leave.

 

The thing that gets me is the threats. I'll make the kids hate you if you leave. You'll lose the sacraments in the Church if you leave. You'll lose at least half of everything and ALL of our friends.

 

I hate that kind of BS and I mean B**ls**t. I never did that to my exH nor did he do that to me and he is a narcissist. I expected him to do it but he was pretty stand-up when it came right down to it. So yeah, a MM is going to feel guilt if his W makes these kinds of threats when he says he wants to leave.

 

I don't get the satisfaction in making those threats. Perhaps it is a control issue. 'I made you stay AND made you say you love me even when you don't. That takes some kind of control.

[Fallen Angel]

I don't think it's off topic, I think it is related.

 

People tend to hang on because life is good for them. They don't want that to change even if that means forcing the other to feel guilty for wanting to leave.

 

The thing that gets me is the threats. I'll make the kids hate you if you leave. You'll lose the sacraments in the Church if you leave. You'll lose at least half of everything and ALL of our friends.

 

I hate that kind of BS and I mean B**ls**t. I never did that to my exH nor did he do that to me and he is a narcissist. I expected him to do it but he was pretty stand-up when it came right down to it. So yeah, a MM is going to feel guilt if his W makes these kinds of threats when he says he wants to leave.

 

I don't get the satisfaction in making those threats. Perhaps it is a control issue. 'I made you stay AND made you say you love me even when you don't. That takes some kind of control.

 

What a sad existance that must be, to know that someone stays with you not because they love you, but because of some power you yield over them. Personally, I would rather spend forever alone, than one minute with someone who was only there because they were afraid not to be.