When The MM Leaves For the OW....

[NoIDidn't]

Its been said here that the OW can't win in the affair or out of it when the MM leaves for her.

 

I can't claim to answer for all posters, but for me, its not about the OW. Its about the MM. It just comes across as if he didn't really try to save his marriage or put any real work into it. Having the affair is the first sign of him not really working on it anymore.

 

This is my opinion. I don't think anyone hates to see an OW "get her man". Its just that "her man" didn't seem to do any real work on fixing his "issues".

 

I know that there ARE some posters that do hate to see an OW "get her man", but I am not one of them.

 

Anyone else want to chime in?

[MizzBlue72]

Well, the MM and I are now trying to make it work.

He has filed for D.

He moved to the state that I live in.

We have separate houses, so that will not be a problem. He had problems in his M prior to our affair.

Do I know it will work out? No. Does he? No.

We are going to take it slow and see where it goes from here.

[GreenEyedLady]

I guess this might be for people like me...

 

I can honestly say that I don't think M's are always meant to last. Some people marry someone they are incompatible with in the long term.

 

I also think that someone can fix "their issues" and still not stay married to their current spouse. All situations are different. Peoples values are different.

 

I don't consider that I "got" my man. I think that we are two people who fell in love and cliche as it may be, were meant to be together, through thick and thin. I love him and he loves me, as much heartache on all sides it took to be together.

 

We've been married for over a year now and I can honestly say that this is the most stable, happiest time we have had together. Blending families and going through the turbulence of D is trying but for us was worth it. I was lucky or fortunate to have a man who knew what he wanted and didn't waffle. I don't agree that that means he didn't work on his issues. The first time he went to counseling was with me and the goal was to be a good husband, father and stepfather. Just because the original M isn't preserved, doesn't mean that the leaving partner doesn't want to work on his/her issues.

 

I want whatever issues are there resolved, so that we have a successful, loving R that lasts until one of us no longer breathes.

 

GEL

[BlueeyedJonesy]

Well, the MM and I are now trying to make it work.

He has filed for D.

He moved to the state that I live in.

We have separate houses, so that will not be a problem. He had problems in his M prior to our affair.

Do I know it will work out? No. Does he? No.

We are going to take it slow and see where it goes from here.

 

You sound pretty smart to me. I think your doing things the right way.

[Angel1111]

I think that sometimes when a MM cheats, it's because he has given up on his marriage. Perhaps he has already tried to resolve the problems but found it hopeless. However, just because he doesn't leave his marriage for the OW, doesn't necessarily mean that he's working on his marriage, either. In my case, I ended it with MM but if it were up to him, we'd still be seeing one another. He stays in his marriage because he doesn't want to go through the emotions and cost of divorce, not because he thinks his marriage is salvagable. It makes no difference to me because the end result is the same - he chose his marriage over me. That's all I need to know.

[NoIDidn't]

I think that sometimes when a MM cheats, it's because he has given up on his marriage. Perhaps he has already tried to resolve the problems but found it hopeless. However, just because he doesn't leave his marriage for the OW, doesn't necessarily mean that he's working on his marriage, either. In my case, I ended it with MM but if it were up to him, we'd still be seeing one another. He stays in his marriage because he doesn't want to go through the emotions and cost of divorce, not because he thinks his marriage is salvagable. It makes no difference to me because the end result is the same - he chose his marriage over me. That's all I need to know.

 

Oh, I agree. I tend to feel that the MM just isn't working on his marriage and that in and of itself is sad to me.

 

Its always possible for the MM to stay married and not work on the issues in it, but it still gives him the chance to. Having an OW doesn't even give the marriage a fighting chance. Its a distraction from what he should be working on - be it himself or the marriage (ideally both as he's a part of both).

[NoIDidn't]

I guess this might be for people like me...

 

No, not directed at "people like [you]". LOL.

 

 

I can honestly say that I don't think M's are always meant to last. Some people marry someone they are incompatible with in the long term.

 

Note 1.

 

I also think that someone can fix "their issues" and still not stay married to their current spouse. All situations are different. Peoples values are different.

 

Taking the "values" talk out of it, I agree. Not about values for me. Just about common sense. I don't think its good to get into a new relationship before ending the previous one.

 

I don't consider that I "got" my man. I think that we are two people who fell in love and cliche as it may be, were meant to be together, through thick and thin. I love him and he loves me, as much heartache on all sides it took to be together.

 

Note 2.

 

We've been married for over a year now and I can honestly say that this is the most stable, happiest time we have had together. Blending families and going through the turbulence of D is trying but for us was worth it. I was lucky or fortunate to have a man who knew what he wanted and didn't waffle. I don't agree that that means he didn't work on his issues. The first time he went to counseling was with me and the goal was to be a good husband, father and stepfather. Just because the original M isn't preserved, doesn't mean that the leaving partner doesn't want to work on his/her issues.

 

Note 3.

 

I want whatever issues are there resolved, so that we have a successful, loving R that lasts until one of us no longer breathes.

 

GEL

 

Notes 1 through 3. This is what I am talking about. Its interesting that you wanted your relationship with him to be given a fighting chance and don't feel that her's to him deserved the same chance.

 

Granted, his marriage still may have ended, but he didn't put nearly the effort into working on his previous marriage that he put into yours. And I don't accept the "meant to be together" justification. He didn't work on himself while in his previous marriage or the marriage itself, but he is working on both in yours. I guess that's better than nothing.

 

(Please note, that I have no issues with you being happily married to your former MM. This is just "discussion" on my opinion. )

[Angel1111]

Oh, I agree. I tend to feel that the MM just isn't working on his marriage and that in and of itself is sad to me.

 

Its always possible for the MM to stay married and not work on the issues in it, but it still gives him the chance to. Having an OW doesn't even give the marriage a fighting chance. Its a distraction from what he should be working on - be it himself or the marriage (ideally both as he's a part of both).

 

Not talking about all marriages, but xMM and his wife tried to work on the marriage many times from what I understand. As I said, I think he got tired of talking and trying to make it work. He left her a few years ago. This was before he met me. When they got back together, he said that it didn't take long before things went right back to the same old stuff. Then, a year later, he got involved with me. I think that was his solution - just cheat and stay in the marriage. Now they just basically live separate lives, except where the kids are concerned. He has trapped himself in the sense that he decided that divorce would be worse than staying in a dead marriage. If that's true for him, then he did the right thing by staying.

[SuburbanOblivion]

I guess this might be for people like me...

 

I can honestly say that I don't think M's are always meant to last. Some people marry someone they are incompatible with in the long term.

 

I also think that someone can fix "their issues" and still not stay married to their current spouse. All situations are different. Peoples values are different.

 

I don't consider that I "got" my man. I think that we are two people who fell in love and cliche as it may be, were meant to be together, through thick and thin. I love him and he loves me, as much heartache on all sides it took to be together.

 

 

I think GEL sums it up pretty well here.

 

There is a bit of a flaw in the question in that by saying the OW is a distraction from the problems almost assumes the problems started around the same time as the OW...It doesn't take into account any 'working on the marriage' or what have you that may have happened before the OW came into the picture. In a case where the man does indeed end up leaving, clearly at that point the marriage was beyond repair.

 

Leaving is not the easy answer, staying is, as solidly evidenced by the sheer number of men who claim to be miserable in their marriage but make no move to fix it.

[NoIDidn't]

Not talking about all marriages, but xMM and his wife tried to work on the marriage many times from what I understand. As I said, I think he got tired of talking and trying to make it work. He left her a few years ago. This was before he met me. When they got back together, he said that it didn't take long before things went right back to the same old stuff. Then, a year later, he got involved with me. I think that was his solution - just cheat and stay in the marriage. Now they just basically live separate lives, except where the kids are concerned. He has trapped himself in the sense that he decided that divorce would be worse than staying in a dead marriage. If that's true for him, then he did the right thing by staying.

 

I know a few people like this IRL. Its sad all around. I don't think what he is doing is any better than just leaving while seeming to not work on himself if the marriage can't be worked on.

 

It is true that some couples have a hard time working on their issues honestly.

 

I just get so tired of hearing from male friends "I wish I had worked on my issues when I was with my first W, I'd still be married if I only knew then what I knew now". But its a process and a journey I guess, I'm just "talking".

[Angel1111]

It doesn't take into account any 'working on the marriage' or what have you that may have happened before the OW came into the picture.

 

I think the majority of the time, there are serious problems in the marriage before an affair takes place. But if the affair is found out, it's much easier to place the blame on the OW than to look at the problems in the marriage. And it's unlikely that the couple will be able to work on the problems after that because the issue of the affair then takes centerstage.

[NoIDidn't]

There is a bit of a flaw in the question in that by saying the OW is a distraction from the problems almost assumes the problems started around the same time as the OW...It doesn't take into account any 'working on the marriage' or what have you that may have happened before the OW came into the picture. In a case where the man does indeed end up leaving, clearly at that point the marriage was beyond repair.

 

I didn't say what you assumed about the problems starting around the time of the OW. I never said nor implied that.

 

OW is a distraction, just like playing golf all day would be. I don't think this is disputable.

 

It may well be, like said by another poster as well, that the MM tried to work on the issues before the affair started. Having an affair displays a lack of investment in the marriage, that's what I am saying needs to be addressed - if possible.

 

I do recognize that its not possible to do in all marriages. But we can't assume that all the marriages impacted by affairs somehow fall into this category, when that wouldn't be true.

[NoIDidn't]

I think the majority of the time, there are serious problems in the marriage before an affair takes place. But if the affair is found out, it's much easier to place the blame on the OW than to look at the problems in the marriage. And it's unlikely that the couple will be able to work on the problems after that because the issue of the affair then takes centerstage.

 

This is where I didn't want the conversation to go, because in no way have I blamed the OW for the problems in the marriage. I simply said a MM having an OW has a distraction from his marriage.

 

I totally agree that the problems existed long before the affair, maybe not even that long before affair, but still before the affair to be certain. Most therapists agree too. An affair is a symptom of either problems in the marriage or the person having the affair. Usually both because a person with issues is likely to have those issues impact every relationship they are in.

[NoIDidn't]

In no way did I expect this conversation to veer into the "blame the OW" for the MM cheating and leaving zone. I don't believe in that theory, even when the OW set out to poach the man. If a man is poachable, there is still something wrong with him in my mind.

 

I simply want to talk about why some people seem less than pleased when the MM does leave the M for the OW. Can we stay on topic please? I don't want to see this thread derailed by arguing about a point that I never made.

[GreenEyedLady]

This is what I am talking about. Its interesting that you wanted your relationship with him to be given a fighting chance and don't feel that her's to him deserved the same chance.

 

Granted, his marriage still may have ended, but he didn't put nearly the effort into working on his previous marriage that he put into yours. And I don't accept the "meant to be together" justification. He didn't work on himself while in his previous marriage or the marriage itself, but he is working on both in yours. I guess that's better than nothing.

 

(Please note, that I have no issues with you being happily married to your former MM. This is just "discussion" on my opinion. )

 

You assume that all M's started like yours, with the same amount put into it. People who don't actually like or love the people they are with are not going to feel the same need to make things work or fight for the M. People who don't have a long history or feel a lot of outside pressure against D aren't going to feel the same about saving the M at all costs. Or putting the effort in. People put effort in when they are invested: whether with their spouse or with their former AP, period.

 

I have always felt that their R was entirely separate than ours and akin to natural selection. It died out for a reason. Ours lives on for a reason. That reason can be argued. I believe one thing, and don't really care what anyone else's opinion is. I know that my H risked his R with his children (not with her mind you) his financial stability, his community reputation, etc and still chose to end the M and marry me. Maybe that means nothing to you or anyone here, but in reality it means alot to me. And we both gave up stability for possible instability. So when someone says they don't believe in the meant to be together mantra, then I say thanks for your opinion and I'll take it up with the management.

 

Quite frankly, I was never invested in them saving their M. There was a reason he strayed from the M and it had nothing to do with me or her for that matter. Some people make mistakes choosing marital partners. I would have loved for him to have ended the M before me, but that is not the reality. I deal with the cards I was dealt.

 

And I don't apologize for my actions. I was GEL throughout and I am proud of how I conducted myself.

 

GEL

[NoIDidn't]

You assume that all M's started like yours, with the same amount put into it. People who don't actually like or love the people they are with are not going to feel the same need to make things work or fight for the M. People who don't have a long history or feel a lot of outside pressure against D aren't going to feel the same about saving the M at all costs. Or putting the effort in. People put effort in when they are invested: whether with their spouse or with their former AP, period.

 

I have always felt that their R was entirely separate than ours and akin to natural selection. It died out for a reason. Ours lives on for a reason. That reason can be argued. I believe one thing, and don't really care what anyone else's opinion is. I know that my H risked his R with his children (not with her mind you) his financial stability, his community reputation, etc and still chose to end the M and marry me. Maybe that means nothing to you or anyone here, but in reality it means alot to me. And we both gave up stability for possible instability. So when someone says they don't believe in the meant to be together mantra, then I say thanks for your opinion and I'll take it up with the management.

 

Quite frankly, I was never invested in them saving their M. There was a reason he strayed from the M and it had nothing to do with me or her for that matter. Some people make mistakes choosing marital partners. I would have loved for him to have ended the M before me, but that is not the reality. I deal with the cards I was dealt.

 

And I don't apologize for my actions. I was GEL throughout and I am proud of how I conducted myself.

 

GEL

 

I didn't ask the question to say that you or anyone else here needed to care about my opinion. I also didn't ever question the way you conducted yourself. All my responses were geared to his actions, not yours.

 

I agree that there was likely a reason he strayed in that marriage, but I think he should have dealt with that reason. That is where I stand. Its all water under the bridge at this point. That marriage is over.

Edited January 30, 2010 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[jennie-jennie]

In my case my MM did not realize there even WAS a problem in his marriage until he fell in love with me. His attempt at NC last fall was an expression of his sincere wish to work on his marriage. Instead the NC resulted in him realizing that he was not able to work on his marriage while still emotionally tied to me. It also made him look deeper within what HE needs himself to be happy.

[jennie-jennie]

I just get so tired of hearing from male friends "I wish I had worked on my issues when I was with my first W, I'd still be married if I only knew then what I knew now". But its a process and a journey I guess, I'm just "talking".

 

See the thing is that in my opinion every relationship has a window of time. During this time effort and work can be put into the relationship to change it. When that window of opportunity has closed, it is not possible anymore.

 

For the MM in an extramarital relationship, the window may already be closed.

[OWoman]

Since I'm in a similar situation, I'm going to respond to this even though it's not directed at me:

 

This is what I am talking about. Its interesting that you wanted your relationship with him to be given a fighting chance and don't feel that her's to him deserved the same chance.

 

Granted, his marriage still may have ended, but he didn't put nearly the effort into working on his previous marriage that he put into yours. And I don't accept the "meant to be together" justification. He didn't work on himself while in his previous marriage or the marriage itself, but he is working on both in yours. I guess that's better than nothing.

 

My DID try to work on his previous M. There had been a previous split (before I met him, not over an A) and he took her back only on the condition that she agreed to MC. But she stormed out of MC and refused to go back - to the same one or anyone else - when the MC implied that she (the xW) may be responsible for some of the issues in the M because of her bullying, etc. She refused to accept that she was in any way "at fault" and so "working on the M" ground to a halt. In retrospect, it wasn't too long after that that I met him - although I only pounced on him later, once I'd checked him out thoroughly first

 

Sometimes the problems in the M are NOT the sole responsibility of the WS's brokenness. Sometimes the BS is at least partially to blame. I'm not denying - nor would he - that my H was broken during his previous M. A healthy man would not have allowed himself to be treated so badly for such a long time, as he did. A healthy man would not have taken back an abusive W without some very clear agreement - with penalties for failing to stick to it - whatever the perceived distress of the kids. A healthy man would have kicked her to the curb long ago and started a healthy R with a healthy woman rather than doing that in parallel with his broken M. However, he recognised his brokenness as a result of the A, and went to IC - which helped him see just how broken his M was, and how his own brokenness had allowed his xW's abusive behaviour to flourish in the M... The work he did through (and beyond) his IC helped him to "fix" himself, to leave his abusive M and to make a proper home for his kids without his xW - and to set the stage for a full-time, healthy R with me.

 

Unlike GEL, we haven't been to counselling as a couple - because the problems were not with our R. The problems were with him (addressed through IC) and with his M (addressed through D) but if we were in need of any counselling, for sure we'd be there.

 

So no, I don't see his leaving his M as a sign of any failure on his part - OTC, it was a great victory and the culmination of a great deal of work on his part to get to the point where he could acknowledge, express, and act on his OWN needs and not just those of other people.

[WalkInThePark]

Its been said here that the OW can't win in the affair or out of it when the MM leaves for her.

 

I can't claim to answer for all posters, but for me, its not about the OW. Its about the MM. It just comes across as if he didn't really try to save his marriage or put any real work into it. Having the affair is the first sign of him not really working on it anymore.

 

This is my opinion. I don't think anyone hates to see an OW "get her man". Its just that "her man" didn't seem to do any real work on fixing his "issues".

 

I know that there ARE some posters that do hate to see an OW "get her man", but I am not one of them.

 

Anyone else want to chime in?

 

 

Well, an OW sometimes comes in the picture because the M does not work anymore. Sometimes the MM has tried for years to be happy in the relationship but comes to the conclusion that he can do as much effort as he wants, he can't improve his M. It take two to tango.

 

Why are people here always talking about the "issues" of the MM and/or the OM/OW? Sometimes the fact of falling in love with someone else than the spouse, is a healthy reflex.

[OpenBook]

I can't claim to answer for all posters' date=' but for me, its not about the OW. Its about the MM. It just comes across as if [b']he didn't really try to save his marriage or put any real work into it.[/b] Having the affair is the first sign of him not really working on it anymore.

 

This is my opinion. I don't think anyone hates to see an OW "get her man". Its just that "her man" didn't seem to do any real work on fixing his "issues".

 

I know that there ARE some posters that do hate to see an OW "get her man", but I am not one of them.

 

Anyone else want to chime in?

 

And how exactly do you know this, what the MM did to fix his M before he got involved with the OW's who are posting on this board? It seems you are making huge assumptions about things you know nothing about. Marriages are complicated and no two marriages are the same. And no one except the two people who are married to each other knows what REALLY goes on inside their marriage. No matter what they claim to others (witness John and Elizabeth Edwards).

 

Have you ever considered the possibility that the BS might carry some of the responsibility for the M collapsing into infidelity? Why is it always the fault of the MM or the OW, and the role of the BS in the M is never examined?

[OWoman]

This:

 

It just comes across as if he didn't really try to save his marriage or put any real work into it.

 

contradicts this:

 

Having the affair is the first sign of him not really working on it anymore.

 

The first implies the MM makes no effort; the second implies that he makes an effort, this goes nowhere (due, possibly, to any number of factors - including the BS resisting or not caring?) and he then explores other routes of making life more bearable.

 

I don't IRL know any MMs who took option 1, ie opting for an A as their first means of dealing with problems in a M. In call cases I know IRL the MM first tried to resolve the problems within the M, before resorting to an A to help them figure out what next steps to take.

[Fallen Angel]

And how exactly do you know this, what the MM did to fix his M before he got involved with the OW's who are posting on this board? It seems you are making huge assumptions about things you know nothing about. Marriages are complicated and no two marriages are the same. And no one except the two people who are married to each other knows what REALLY goes on inside their marriage. No matter what they claim to others (witness John and Elizabeth Edwards).

 

Have you ever considered the possibility that the BS might carry some of the responsibility for the M collapsing into infidelity? Why is it always the fault of the MM or the OW, and the role of the BS in the M is never examined?

 

Because that is the nature of the beast.. the BS is "betrayed" and therefore has the 'right' to point fingers at everyone but themselves.

 

I happen to know many marriages in which one party or the other, or both were unfaithful. Most often the infidelity occurred after counseling, be it IC and/or MC, undergone by the wandering party.

 

They reach a point of having tried and tried and tried, and they finally give up and seek their happiness elsewhere. But once the infidelity is exposed, it is all their fault.

 

Nevermind the fact that they tried so much prior to the affair and the now-BS didn't want to work on things, never mind the fact that they told the now-BS they were unhappy and the now-BS did nothing to help repair the broken communication in the marriage. *shrug*

 

They cheated, so it is all their fault, how dare you point any finegsr at the BS, they were the one betrayed after all ... nevermind the fact that failing to try to fix what was broken in the marriage in the first place is also a betrayal.

[bentnotbroken]

And how exactly do you know this, what the MM did to fix his M before he got involved with the OW's who are posting on this board? It seems you are making huge assumptions about things you know nothing about. Marriages are complicated and no two marriages are the same. And no one except the two people who are married to each other knows what REALLY goes on inside their marriage. No matter what they claim to others (witness John and Elizabeth Edwards).

 

Have you ever considered the possibility that the BS might carry some of the responsibility for the M collapsing into infidelity? Why is it always the fault of the MM or the OW, and the role of the BS in the M is never examined?

 

 

I don't want to speak for NID and I could be wrong, but isn't she saying that it "it comes across" a certain way, whether it is true for all cases(which we all know you can never say "all" as there are always exceptions to any situation) or not. Wouldn't it be true that what she says that the affair is a sign that some MM aren't putting anything into the marriage anymore, he is putting it all into the R with the AP?

 

She did say it was her opinion and asked others for their thoughts. I do beleive that some BS do accept responsibility for the marital problems, I certainly added my fair share of crap to the table, but doesn't the responsiblity for the choice of the A lay with the person who chose to engage in? If that person goes into a new relationship and things get difficult, will they have different coping skills or will they resort to the same behaviors. The same can be said for the BS, whatever issues they have need to be dealt with before entering a new relationship. Because if you do the same things wrong you will get the same outcome. Right?

 

I don't believe that attraction to another person is the thing that leads to infidelity. I think that feeding that attraction is the thing that leads to that. Should one examine why they choose to feed that attraction instead of deal with what is in front of them, whether it leads to rebuilding or divorce. An example: Owoman explained her situation that her H did do counseling to deal with the issues he had in his previous marriage. He dealt with the thing that lead him to an A, not standing up for himself. He has learned new coping mechanisms. That's not to say Owoman is anything like FW, but that any situation that arises he won't ever be put in a position again to make the choice to have an A. Just my thoughts anyway.

[Virgo1982]

If I felt I did not contribute to the decline of the M AND my H cheated on me, I would be very angry. If I thought I was right about everything and could not see any wrongdoing on my part, I would give him h*ll. While this will probably resolve nothing, I wouldn't care. After all, I have a right to be angry, right?

 

If I felt I did contribute to the decline of the M and my H cheated on me, I would be angry. But, I would wonder what might have happened if I didn't/did do _____________. Then, I would try to make changes if I wanted to stay with him.

 

In the first case, the A would serve as a distraction for the BS as well. She would be relieved of all responsibility because the A would be front and center-if there's a d day. But wouldn't it just go back to the same dysfunctional relationship they had after the smoke clears?