Is an aggressive woman a turn off?

[Ruby Slippers]

Ruby I just look at your previous posts about how men deserve to get cheated on because it is now time to even the score and I didn't expect you to be so pro-father.

Again with the distortion. I never said that.

 

To me all this talk about feeling feminine and real men sounds like women want equality only when it is convienent. If a man nurtured your femininity would you be willing to nurture his masculinity in return? Is this a two way street in your book?

Of course. I am pretty sure my ex (the assertive one mentioned above) would agree that I nurtured his masculinity. The pinnacle of that was probably me blowing him while he watched hockey and had a beer (my idea).

 

Certain things he did because he is a man (checking out other women and watching porn) made me sad. I'm a woman and I'm me, so I can't help that. But I never tried to control him or restrict him from being himself. When he noticed I wasn't a big fan of it, he offered to stop checking out other women when we were together, and he offered to give up porn. I said I would never want to control his behavior or ask him to stop doing something he wanted to do, so I didn't feel right asking him to stop.

 

At one point in our relationship, when I remarked that the sex had been especially phenomenal lately, he revealed to me that he had voluntarily given up porn for the previous month or so. I had earlier made the argument that I thought directing all our sexual energy at one another -- rather than diverting some of it toward other outlets -- would make for some intensely powerful sex and connection. He said I was right, and the best part was that I never forced his hand (ha), but gave him the room to explore that idea on his own.

 

So, yes, I enjoy nurturing my man's masculinity as much as I enjoy him making me feel more womanly.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Ruby Slippers

[callingyouuu]

I don't think a woman necessarily prefers to be aggressive, assertive, or strong. Sometimes circumstance force it upon her and careers require it.

 

I agree this behavior can be catagorized to specific areas of one's life. I am strong in the workplace. I would not be successful if I wasn't. The company I work for would not profit if I was not.

 

However, it's in my nature (IMO) to submit to a man, my partner. Because I have to be in charge at work, I quite often want a man to be in charge in the relationship, household, and bedroom. It's quite the turn-on.

 

I just can't find this perfect man.

I think this is true among a large number of professional, assertive women.

 

However, I think it's also true that these women, even if they prefer to submit to their partners, are more likely to "test" them much more vigorously at the beginning stages of the relationship than less assertive women. Like if there's a decision to be made, in my experience, some of my more assertive female friends will try to sort of push their partners to see if they'll break. Because they are assertive by nature, they're really good at pushing people around, and sometimes a perfectly good guy will end up having a lower score in her book just because she got him to agree to go get sushi when he originally stated that he didn't want to go. She interprets it as him not being assertive enough when it could have been the case that he just agreed to go because he thought she really wanted sushi.

 

I guess you could argue that testing needs to happen for the woman to see if the dude is good enough, but because of its contrived nature, it just seems childish to me.

[meerkat stew]

I am a lawyer myself, so I know quite a few female lawyers. The ones who become successful are the mean bitches. The normal women burn out after a couple of years and either quit the legal field altogether or get a 'non-adversary' job with the government or as an inhouse counsel. Law is a very unfeminine profession and the women who succeed in it are typically also very unfeminine.

 

I have little experience with female litigators, so really can't agree or disagree with the above, but do know that women do just fine practicing transactional law and don't all burn out.

[OceanTropic]

Because they are assertive by nature, they're really good at pushing people around, and sometimes a perfectly good guy will end up having a lower score in her book just because she got him to agree to go get sushi when he originally stated that he didn't want to go. She interprets it as him not being assertive enough when it could have been the case that he just agreed to go because he thought she really wanted sushi.

 

I dont think that has to do with being assertive, but with being stupid. Some women just don't understand. If a woman wants to be submissive to her partner (especially an assertive one) than she can't just lower his score if he does the same.

[DiscoChick]

I do not know a single man that is attracted to an assertive female. They prefer women that dress pretty all the time, wear fake nails and do whatever they tell them to do. Disheartening, indeed. I am an assertive female. Guys have also thought I was lesbian because of these things. I may be a loud, brutally honest at times, but that doesn't make me manly. I like men. All men. Even the skinny nerds with their cute glasses and ties. Wow...*fans*

 

I prefer to know where things are going and where a relationship stands. I want to know what he expects from me. I hate guessing games. I am a straightforward person and prefer to be treated the same way. I prefer independent, intelligent, trustworthy, respectful men, that are family oriented, open minded, and very very very very patient. I can be a jerk sometimes. Patience is a must. If I think I've met a guy that has these traits, I will approach him. I'm not afraid of rejection. Rejection and I have danced together too many times for me to fear it.

[OceanTropic]

I'm not afraid of rejection. Rejection and I have danced together too many times for me to fear it.

 

You are amazing.

[sumdude]

There's a fine line between assertive and overbearing. I was raised by a very strong woman.. who at times was also overbearing.

 

I am attracted to strong women but the second overbearing comes out i get turned off.

 

What I've run into is someone who has too much to prove or a chip on the shoulder. When I was working like crazy to get my folks house on the market in short order my gf at the time offered to help me paint.

 

Instead it turned into her trying to show me how to paint. Because she had done it before working for her grandfather. Some of the stuff she showed me was fine but you don't need to thin modern latex paints with water.

 

Point was I knew how to paint, I've painted plenty of rooms before. Not a pro but I needed to get things done and help to save me time. Not waste hours arguing about how to do it. I couldn't get along with her, no matter what I knew how to do well she had to be just as good or know more particularly if it was a previously traditional guy thing. She would always complain that guys always had to compete .. but she was way more competitive at her core.

 

Or maybe it was just two competitive people butting heads.

[OceanTropic]

There's a fine line between assertive and overbearing. I was raised by a very strong woman.. who at times was also overbearing.

 

I am attracted to strong women but the second overbearing comes out i get turned off.

 

What I've run into is someone who has too much to prove or a chip on the shoulder. When I was working like crazy to get my folks house on the market in short order my gf at the time offered to help me paint.

 

Instead it turned into her trying to show me how to paint. Because she had done it before working for her grandfather. Some of the stuff she showed me was fine but you don't need to thin modern latex paints with water.

 

Point was I knew how to paint, I've painted plenty of rooms before. Not a pro but I needed to get things done and help to save me time. Not waste hours arguing about how to do it. I couldn't get along with her, no matter what I knew how to do well she had to be just as good or know more particularly if it was a previously traditional guy thing. She would always complain that guys always had to compete .. but she was way more competitive at her core.

 

Or maybe it was just two competitive people butting heads.

 

Maybe not competition but she wanted to be the boss, and everything had to be her way. Eeekk that really sucks. Was she like this always? In all areas? Or only in the things she knew how to do?

[Pizzaman81]

I don't mean aggressive like physically violent or abusive lol

 

I'm talking about a woman who knows what she wants, and gets it. A woman who enjoys sports every now and then, and a woman who won't rest until she gets that promotion, or solves her law case. A woman who enjoys rough sex and a woman who doesn't mind getting some dirt under her nails.

 

Is this a turn off to men? Or do men prefer a woman who is delicate and soft, is this more feminine?

 

My ex was like that... I admit, at first I was put off, but then later realized it's a super good thing that she is. She is clear in the head and knows what she wants, but at the same time isn't stubborn.

 

Me: "Hey thanks hun... oh actually I asked for lemonade not Coke"

Her: "Just drink it!"

Me: "Ok" :love:

[sumdude]

Maybe not competition but she wanted to be the boss, and everything had to be her way. Eeekk that really sucks. Was she like this always? In all areas? Or only in the things she knew how to do?

 

In a lot of ways yes. She can never be quite content. Her mind was always churning, she has trouble sleeping and the slightest thing would wake her. The type who would see the garden and only focus on the weeds. Actually I think it's a deep insecurity that makes her feel the need to control her environment so much. We're still friends. Too bad really, if it wasn't for that side of her we would have been great together. She actually taught me a lot about myself.

[paddington bear]

From my limited experience, when I stupidly decided that I was going to take matters into my own hands and approach men, yes, they loved it initially after that, I'm guessing there's a bit of 'Hey! She's taking my job away from me' and men, whatever you say, do like a bit of a chase, if it drops into your lap too easily you devalue that woman.

 

So, I tried that for a few months and then realised it was ultimately a total waste of time.

 

The only long-standing relationships I've seen with assertive women are those with weaker men who allow her to dominate him and this type of man enjoys it. Apart from one friend who loves how her partner doesn't take any crap from her and is an equal, rather than someone too easily malleable.

 

I agree that assertiveness in the workplace is mostly not switched off outside the workplace, it means having somewhat of a split personality. I think managing to do this is something that would have to be consciously thought about and worked on.

 

What I've found hard is the men offering to help thing. And I love that they do it, but I've been so stupid in the past and I reckon these lovely men have scuttled off somewhere because I've been like 'but I can tile the bathroom myself' not thinking that this might be off-putting. Maybe they feel their ability to provide something for you, to make you happy has been compromised, that the rejection of help is a rejection of them as men or something.

 

Having said all of that, I can't fall for someone I don't admire and I do love if they can teach me stuff that I don't know and I do get a bit hero-worshippy if they can make me admire them.

[sumdude]

 

What I've found hard is the men offering to help thing. And I love that they do it, but I've been so stupid in the past and I reckon these lovely men have scuttled off somewhere because I've been like 'but I can tile the bathroom myself' not thinking that this might be off-putting. Maybe they feel their ability to provide something for you, to make you happy has been compromised, that the rejection of help is a rejection of them as men or something.

 

Having said all of that, I can't fall for someone I don't admire and I do love if they can teach me stuff that I don't know and I do get a bit hero-worshippy if they can make me admire them.

 

Well we can't help it. Most of us really LIKE doing the guy stuff for women in our lives. If we can't show our love that way it gets hard to find other ways. I'm not going to knit up a sweater or anything like that.

[carhill]

What I've found hard is the men offering to help thing. And I love that they do it, but I've been so stupid in the past and I reckon these lovely men have scuttled off somewhere because I've been like 'but I can tile the bathroom myself' not thinking that this might be off-putting.

 

I've faced this, and appreciate a woman who has such skills, so my answer is 'cool, maybe you can teach me a few things; let's do it together'. The lady I'm currently 'seeing' approached me online, seems to have some of those skills and has her own travel trailer and boat she drags around. Now, see, a woman who can back a travel trailer into a stall has my respect. Normally, we get out the lawn chairs and beer for that

 

IMO, there's a difference between not 'needing' a man for these projects/activities and not 'wanting' a man to share them with. It's how you show your assertive nature as a woman which affects how the man feels about you, going back to what I mentioned prior about those signals of femininity.

[DiscoChick]

Well we can't help it. Most of us really LIKE doing the guy stuff for women in our lives. If we can't show our love that way it gets hard to find other ways. I'm not going to knit up a sweater or anything like that.

 

:lmao: Especially if you suck at knitting. I think that would be cute though...if you tried to do something you're not used to doing, just to make your chick feel special.

[alphamale]

i find that assertive chicks are a lot easier to get in the sack

[paddington bear]

I know. I've kind of shot myself in the foot with that one. I don't snap 'oh for god's sakes I can do that myself, what do you take me for, an idiot?'

 

It's just I ended up for years working where I picked up a lot of knowledge on carpentry and tiling and painting and decorating (and I've no dad, so had to do this stuff for my mom) and these are usually the areas where help is offered and so I just forget to allow the man to be chivalrous.

 

But even better is Carhill's suggestion of doing it together (and no, I'd never start dictating that the paint should be watered down or whatever )

[silverplanets]

Me: "Hey thanks hun... oh actually I asked for lemonade not Coke"

Her: "Just drink it!"

Me: "Ok" :love:

 

Now that's funny !!!! :)

[OceanTropic]

i find that assertive chicks are a lot easier to get in the sack

 

Really?? I've found the opposite to be true...

[paddington bear]

Really?? I've found the opposite to be true...

 

Well wouldn't they be all assertive and 'yes come on, right here, right now, you and me buddy, let's just do it!' ???

[OceanTropic]

Well wouldn't they be all assertive and 'yes come on, right here, right now, you and me buddy, let's just do it!' ???

 

That's not assertive, thats super horny and aggressive. Aggressive and assertive are two different things, at least from my understanding.

[paddington bear]

That's not assertive, thats super horny and aggressive. Aggressive and assertive are two different things, at least from my understanding.

 

You see, from my perspective I'd see that as assertive and ''yes come on, right here, right now, you and me buddy, let's just do it! Or I'll KILL you" as aggressive.

 

joking aside, I think it's all in how it's done, in a slow, confident voice from the kind of woman that always gets what she wants but has fun with that, or it being bellowed out like an order.

 

Ocean, you're the OP right? Sorry if I've got that wrong. A thought has just occurred maybe you think you are assertive, or are coming across as assertive, but actually are more of a pussycat that you realise?

[OceanTropic]

You see, from my perspective I'd see that as assertive and ''yes come on, right here, right now, you and me buddy, let's just do it! Or I'll KILL you" as aggressive.

 

joking aside, I think it's all in how it's done, in a slow, confident voice from the kind of woman that always gets what she wants but has fun with that, or it being bellowed out like an order.

 

Ocean, you're the OP right? Sorry if I've got that wrong. A thought has just occurred maybe you think you are assertive, or are coming across as assertive, but actually are more of a pussycat that you realise?

 

What's a pussycat? lol

[paddington bear]

Not what you're thinking!!

 

To clarify: A guy once said to me 'when I first met you I thought you were really arrogant, but you're just a pussycat, a real softie'

 

Maybe that's my problem, appear to be assertive but am in fact a blubbering mess of insecurities...

[OceanTropic]

Not what you're thinking!!

 

To clarify: A guy once said to me 'when I first met you I thought you were really arrogant, but you're just a pussycat, a real softie'

 

Maybe that's my problem, appear to be assertive but am in fact a blubbering mess of insecurities...

 

 

Assertive or not, I think everyone has their insecurities. Do you think they discredit assertiveness? Or devalue it?

 

I think a person can have insecurities, or be a softie, but no matter how honest we try to be, we can never 100% show our true selves when we are with others. That's a part we show when we get intimate with someone.

[Johnny M]

I have little experience with female litigators, so really can't agree or disagree with the above, but do know that women do just fine practicing transactional law and don't all burn out.

There was a study conducted here in Canada recently which showed that most female lawyers quit the profession after 3-4 years. This was across the field and applies to transactional lawyers as well, since that's where most legal jobs are. I would imagine it being even worse in places like NYC and Boston, where the environment is even more competitive.