Woggle Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Maybe SOME, but not ALL. Don't be so quick to throw us all in that same category. I wish you could give me a week, and I would so prove you wrong Thanks for all the posts by the way, GREAT conversation How would you prove me wrong. If woman want love so much where are all these women who truly appreciate loving men?
Author OceanTropic Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 I thought you were talking about the aggressive business woman type. To be successful in the business world you have to be good at controlling and manipulating - otherwise your career will get nowhere. That's why professional women have such a hard time finding mates. They want to call the shots but they are not happy with a docile beta male who needs a second mother. They want an aggressive alpha male. And you simply cannot have two aggressive individuals living happily as a coupe - there's just too much opportunity for butting heads. You're right about that, but I think it's very easy to separate your aggressiveness towards your career, and you're aggressiveness in a social setting. Not all successful lawyers, for instance, are mean b*tches in real life. Maybe they're just aggressive in the courtroom.
Ruby Slippers Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Why is fatherlessness celebrated as the ultimate expression of female independence when a woman has admited that a strong male role model produces a better man? I don't celebrate fatherlessness in any way. Sure, I applaud all single mothers (and fathers) for doing the job of two parents alone, but I wouldn't celebrate that circumstance or wish it upon anyone. Children need a mother and a father. I am pretty sure I could raise a child by myself, but I would never want to, mostly because I do not believe that's good for the child.
Woggle Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Also in an equal world why do women feel the need to feel feminine?
Author OceanTropic Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 How would you prove me wrong. If woman want love so much where are all these women who truly appreciate loving men? Gosh you sound so hopeless. They are out there. And for the record, many women value the traditional man. Who said that a single father isn't an accomplishment? I think it's f*ckin awesome. ^^ Why does a man need to feel masculine?
Woggle Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 I don't celebrate fatherlessness in any way. Sure, I applaud all single mothers (and fathers) for doing the job of two parents alone, but I wouldn't celebrate that circumstance or wish it upon anyone. Children need a mother and a father. I am pretty sure I could raise a child by myself, but I would never want to, mostly because I do not believe that's good for the child. This is surprising coming from you. I thought you would be one of those types who applaud women who use a man for his sperm and then shove him away. Do you at least admit the role women have played in the death of gentlemenly behavior from men?
Woggle Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Gosh you sound so hopeless. They are out there. And for the record, many women value the traditional man. Who said that a single father isn't an accomplishment? I think it's f*ckin awesome. ^^ Why does a man need to feel masculine? If they are out there where are they? Are they hiding underground or something because I sure don't see any in the real world.
skydiveaddict Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 I don't mean aggressive like physically violent or abusive lol I'm talking about a woman who knows what she wants, and gets it. A woman who enjoys sports every now and then, and a woman who won't rest until she gets that promotion, or solves her law case. A woman who enjoys rough sex and a woman who doesn't mind getting some dirt under her nails. Is this a turn off to men? Or do men prefer a woman who is delicate and soft, is this more feminine? It DOESNT matter my friend.. If you like her GO FOR IT
Author OceanTropic Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 If they are out there where are they? Are they hiding underground or something because I sure don't see any in the real world. As much as I like you, you're acting like a child. "Where are they?? Boohooo I can't find any." Everything doesn't just fall in your lap.
Johnny M Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 You're right about that, but I think it's very easy to separate your aggressiveness towards your career, and you're aggressiveness in a social setting. Actually, it's not. From my observations, people who are aggressive in their careers are usually aggressive in non-work settings as well. Sometimes they hide their aggressiveness when the situation calls for it, but that's only a mask that they wear temporarily. Aggressiveness is ingrained in one's character. Not all successful lawyers, for instance, are mean b*tches in real life. Maybe they're just aggressive in the courtroom I disagree with this as well. I am a lawyer myself, so I know quite a few female lawyers. The ones who become successful are the mean bitches. The normal women burn out after a couple of years and either quit the legal field altogether or get a 'non-adversary' job with the government or as an inhouse counsel. Law is a very unfeminine profession and the women who succeed in it are typically also very unfeminine.
Woggle Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 As much as I like you, you're acting like a child. "Where are they?? Boohooo I can't find any." Everything doesn't just fall in your lap. I am not acting like a child. If woman really want love then why is there behavior in the real world so different from what they say?
Ruby Slippers Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 This is surprising coming from you. I thought you would be one of those types who applaud women who use a man for his sperm and then shove him away. Do you at least admit the role women have played in the death of gentlemenly behavior from men? Woggle, your view of the world and women is so distorted that by now I usually avoid answering your complaints directly. You have to pick your battles, and I get the feeling that I could spend my lifetime trying to get through to you, unsuccessfully. It's a losing battle with you, so I don't often bother to fight. Also in an equal world why do women feel the need to feel feminine? You have a very distorted view of what feminism is. Women want to feel like women because we are women. And men are men. Like cats are cats, and dogs are dogs. There is nothing wrong with embracing your femininity or masculinity. In fact, it can be a beautiful thing. The problem comes in when people tell men or women they SHOULD behave in certain ways because that's how men and women are SUPPOSED to behave.
Author OceanTropic Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 Aggressiveness is ingrained in one's character. I am a lawyer myself, so I know quite a few female lawyers. The ones who become successful are the mean bitches. The normal women burn out after a couple of years and either quit the legal field altogether or get a 'non-adversary' job with the government or as an inhouse counsel. Law is a very unfeminine profession and the women who succeed in it are typically also very unfeminine. This makes a lot of sense, but I still think you can limit it to one specific area in your life. This wouldn't explain why some feminine, reserved, calm women are maniacs in the bedroom, aggressive and fierce. Yet you could have never guessed.
carhill Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 From Wiki: In psychology, as well as other social and behavioral sciences, aggression refers to behavior between members of the same species that is intended to cause pain or harm I'll endorse the new poster's opinion that 'assertive' is likely the descriptor being thrown out for discussion. If a woman can be assertive and still remain feminine (in other words, when I experience her, I'm not feeling like she's a man with breasts), then I would say such a dynamic is not a turn off for me. My main issue in that regard with my stbx is that she often displayed 'male' behaviors, sometimes but not necessarily specifically linked to assertiveness and/or aggression, and this did, over time, diminish attraction. In marked contrast, I've been with women who might superficially 'look' more 'male', and perform male 'tasks' and be assertive about those tasks, but their aura was eminently feminine. Regardless of their behaviors, their aura matched up with my natural setpoint for what a woman is. Hard concept to explain. A literally aggressive (as defined in Wiki) woman won't even note my existence, as I will be gone so quickly as to never leave a trace. Life's too short and I learned my lesson....
Woggle Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Ruby I just look at your previous posts about how men deserve to get cheated on because it is now time to even the score and I didn't expect you to be so pro-father. To me all this talk about feeling feminine and real men sounds like women want equality only when it is convienent. If a man nurtured your femininity would you be willing to nurture his masculinity in return? Is this a two way street in your book?
Johnny M Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 This makes a lot of sense, but I still think you can limit it to one specific area in your life. This wouldn't explain why some feminine, reserved, calm women are maniacs in the bedroom, aggressive and fierce. Yet you could have never guessed. Sexual passion has nothing to do with an aggressive character. I doubt that an aggressive career woman would be anything special in bed - in fact, I'm pretty sure that the reverse would be true.
Author OceanTropic Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 Sexual passion has nothing to do with an aggressive character. I doubt that an aggressive career woman would be anything special in bed - in fact, I'm pretty sure that the reverse would be true. Really??? It makes sense, but how can a lawyer be quicka$$ in the courtroom but a cold fish in bed?? Eeekkk
St. Nick Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 My type of aggressive woman: --sociable --willing to approach the guy, rather than wait to be approached --not judgmental --doesn't think if a guy can't handle her then he's intimidated by her, rather she looks at herself and why she drove off so many guys *coughrubyslipperscough* --is athletic --understanding --easygoing
Johnny M Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Really??? It makes sense, but how can a lawyer be quicka$$ in the courtroom but a cold fish in bed?? Eeekkk I don't see how one's performance in the courtroom could be linked with his/her performance in the bedroom. We are talking about two totally unrelated tasks: one intellectual/rational and the other physical/emotional.
Author OceanTropic Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 I don't see how one's performance in the courtroom could be linked with his/her performance in the bedroom. We are talking about two totally unrelated tasks: one intellectual/rational and the other physical/emotional. You're right, and I totally contradicted myself too. I say you can separate aggressiveness in certain area of your life, yet I have trouble separating career aggressiveness from sexual aggressiveness.
St. Nick Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Sexual passion has nothing to do with an aggressive character. I doubt that an aggressive career woman would be anything special in bed - in fact, I'm pretty sure that the reverse would be true. Hit the nail on the head. That's a paradox right there! I had sex with this highly opinionated medical student who was at the top of her class, was an obsessive compulsive organizer that always had to have everything neat and spotless. She was the type of woman who constantly complained that all the guys she ever met were intimidated by her and wanted to date, in her words, "Barbie-doll bimbos who were young, naive, and easy to manipulate." After having sex with her a third time I finally told her she could stand to be better in bed. And do you know what happened? An avalanche of curses and condemnations, and I was a sexist sleaze, who's only thought was sex and not the social value of a relationship. Needless to say I checked out, and I'm positive she wrote me off as "one of those guys who is too intimated to get with an a woman who is equal to him". Sheesh. But yeah, these women do suck in bed. I think that's one of the reasons why guys don't stick around cuz it can be lame as hell. I've had more fun watching Dr. Zhivago than having sex with those types of women.
Ruby Slippers Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 --doesn't think if a guy can't handle her then he's intimidated by her, rather she looks at herself and why she drove off so many guys *coughrubyslipperscough* I never said a guy couldn't "handle me". (I hate when people talk about others "handling" them. We're people, not horses.) Only one guy has broken up with me, so actually, almost all of them "drove me off".
txsilkysmoothe Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 (edited) [/QUOTE]Johnny M "I thought you were talking about the aggressive business woman type. To be successful in the business world you have to be good at controlling and manipulating - otherwise your career will get nowhere. That's why professional women have such a hard time finding mates. They want to call the shots but they are not happy with a docile beta male who needs a second mother. They want an aggressive alpha male. And you simply cannot have two aggressive individuals living happily as a coupe - there's just too much opportunity for butting heads.[/QUOTE] I don't think a woman necessarily prefers to be aggressive, assertive, or strong. Sometimes circumstance force it upon her and careers require it. I agree this behavior can be catagorized to specific areas of one's life. I am strong in the workplace. I would not be successful if I wasn't. The company I work for would not profit if I was not. However, it's in my nature (IMO) to submit to a man, my partner. Because I have to be in charge at work, I quite often want a man to be in charge in the relationship, household, and bedroom. It's quite the turn-on. I just can't find this perfect man. Edited January 29, 2010 by txsilkysmoothe
Skump Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 This is so unfair. I have a good friend who is an amazing mother, and her kid is in daycare part-time. She was going to stay home full-time, and wanted to, but they needed the extra income. She researched the daycares in her town thoroughly and found a really good place. Her kid loves going and has made friends there. And she gets to have "adult time" for 20 hours a week, and do something besides change diapers and work on the alphabet. Studies have shown that the father, mother, and child are happiest when the mother has SOME degree of time without the kid involved at all. Men tend to lose respect for women who do nothing but child-rear (even a wife they truly love), women often lose their sense of identity and contribution to larger society, and children are better off with well-rounded parents who have lives. Her husband was laid off recently, and she had the luxury of going back to work full-time. Now her husband takes care of the kid while he searches for a new job. I think her role in the family has been near heroic. It makes me sad to see you condemn working mothers with such disdain. In a scenario of true financial necessity, my opinion would be different: Single moms may have no choice but to put their kids in day care, for instance. No shame in that. In my case, however, it is absolutely inconceivable that my wife will ever require extra income out of necessity - I'll leave description of my financial position at that. Moreover, I should mention that part-time employment isn't actually incompatible with my requirements: In fact, I've already made an agreement with my parents, who are quite willing to help care for my children while my wife works part time during the period of my children's early adolescence. This was all planned out several years ago. I think it's a pretty reasonable arrangement.
Author OceanTropic Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 [/QUOTE]Johnny M "I thought you were talking about the aggressive business woman type. To be successful in the business world you have to be good at controlling and manipulating - otherwise your career will get nowhere. That's why professional women have such a hard time finding mates. They want to call the shots but they are not happy with a docile beta male who needs a second mother. They want an aggressive alpha male. And you simply cannot have two aggressive individuals living happily as a coupe - there's just too much opportunity for butting heads.[/QUOTE] I don't think a woman necessarily prefers to be aggressive, assertive, or strong. Sometimes circumstance force it upon her and careers require it. I agree this behavior can be catagorized to specific areas of one's life. I am strong in the workplace. I would not be successful if I wasn't. The company I work for would not profit if I was not. However, it's in my nature (IMO) to submit to a man, my partner. Because I have to be in charge at work, I quite often want a man to be in charge in the relationship, household, and bedroom. It's quite the turn-on. I just can't find this perfect man. I agree with you 100%. And yes, these men are hard to find.
Recommended Posts