confusedinkansas Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I think the entire site goes both ways. The BS's (some) come here & bash those of us that have had affairs. And...Those that have had affairs (some) bash the BS's. I've had betrayed spouses pratically slam me against the wall (not literally) with their words. I've also seen many betrayed spouses blamed for the cause of an affair in their marriage/relationship. I don't think there is a "happy medium" here. You take out of this what you need & leave the rest on the table. That's just the way I have come to accept this site. I like coming here & venting & asking questions - You just have to take the good people - along with the bad.
silktricks Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 To be fair, both OW and Infidelity forums are MUCH better than they were when I joined, or even just a year ago. Sometimes it gets out of hand, but usually that's with newer members who are generally still in a lot of pain - or with people who will rally around when they read something they perceive to be bashing. but even so, I also agree there is a double-standard.
eeyore1981 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 IMHO, ANY of us can post wherever we d*mn well please. We all have the option of ignoring or responding to the posts put out there. I'll be the first to admit I'm not one of the nicer posters on here. I was nicer back in the beginning, but got fed up with the rationalizations, justifications, accusations, etc. etc. I am much more jaded and cynical now. Some posts and/or posters still annoy the hell out of me, but I am working on it. What I try very hard to do is just take it as it comes. If I feel like ignoring it, I do, and if I feel like commenting, I do. What it comes down to is opinions and life experiences, and they aren't all going to be the same.
Author BlueeyedJonesy Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 You take out of this what you need & leave the rest on the table. That's just the way I have come to accept this site. I like coming here & venting & asking questions - You just have to take the good people - along with the bad. Thats exactly what I have to remind myself of...I like this site too much
HappyAtLast Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 It appears, Blueeyed, that you are generally very kind and respectful in your posts, regardless of where you are posting. Sadly, we cannot always expect others to treat us with the same respect that we afford to them. I am glad to see that you have maintained your respectful tone, regardless.
realworldexplorer Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 BEJ, Yes, there should be a BS only section here where BS's could offer comfort and strategy for living through one of lifes most traumatic events. As far as getting flamed by AP's, don't expect much sympathy from people who have their own selfish agendas and are willing to harm or destroy other peoples lives and marriages. These people are not renowned for their stability, genorosity and empathetic world views. They can slant their views and mix truth with lies, but always the bottom line is deception of self and others. It really is sad, and nobody is perfect but they will not understand the deep pain that is lived by a BS, and in some cases they will not care. As for bitterness and negativity on the part of the BS, If that is all an affair partner receives from a BS they should consider themselves very lucky indeed (that one really is laughable). I like you was deceived and betrayed by the AP and it took every ounce of courage and restraint that I have not to harm that person. As much pain and disruption of life that I have experienced from my situation, I am very glad that it was not me putting that on to someone else innocent. This is a very private hell that few people can understand and a BS only forum would be very usefull and cathartic. Listening to some AP's rationale for doing what they do can be confusing and misleading when you are in the trauma of discovery, but I now find it interesting and somewhat entertaining to see the depths that some people will sink to, all to rationalize or deny behaviour that is abhorrent and destructive. The truth is the truth is the truth. Every one knows what it is, some just choose to buy now and pay later. I really can't understand the selfish motivation behind this type of behaviour. I could never befriend someone, F*** his wife and then shake his hand and smile at him later, I would rather die
Author BlueeyedJonesy Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 Thank you all for your considerate responses. There are days when I get on here and think "does everyone feel this way, Or am I just hurt beyond beleif..that I take everything personally?" so Its nice to see that other people see it too
HappyAtLast Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 As others have pointed out, there ARE sites specifically for and by betrayed spouses. Why not frequent there for your protected conversations and here to see all sides? Best of both words, no?
NowhereToHide Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 It goes both ways, Blueeyes..... Oftentimes you get what you give on this site. If you respond to a post by an OW in a disrespectful, judgemental way, then typically you are going to get it back. The same goes for the OW. Some of the best advice I've received have come from BSs. I was an OW. And they gave me their insight, their advice, and their thoughts in a kind and respectful manner. Was it hard to hear what they said sometimes? Absolutely. But I will be forever grateful to them for listening to me and finding time to help me. I have reached out to BSs that are hurting as well. That's the thing about As. NO ONE wins. Everyone loses in the end. There is so much pain on these boards. No one deserves to be flamed or disrespected. You can get the help you need here as well as GIVE help. We all hold some insights that can help.
anne1707 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I am a former WS and when I started posting, I came to the OW/OM forum. I was told (very bluntly) that I was in the wrong forum so I moved my thread(s) to Infidelity. I was then told that I was out of order for starting threads in both forums! I accepted that I was going to get bashed as a WS because I was all over the place when I came here. However now that my affair is well and truly over and my H and I are successfully reconciling (its only 18 months so still on this journey), I still find I get bashed on LS. But the place I get most of this is in the OM/OW forum! It's funny because if there is any person I see at fault in an affair, it is the WS - they are usually the ones who are using/abusing people most (BS or OW/OM or both).
jennie-jennie Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 (edited) I am a former WS and when I started posting, I came to the OW/OM forum. I was told (very bluntly) that I was in the wrong forum so I moved my thread(s) to Infidelity. I was then told that I was out of order for starting threads in both forums! I accepted that I was going to get bashed as a WS because I was all over the place when I came here. However now that my affair is well and truly over and my H and I are successfully reconciling (its only 18 months so still on this journey), I still find I get bashed on LS. But the place I get most of this is in the OM/OW forum! It's funny because if there is any person I see at fault in an affair, it is the WS - they are usually the ones who are using/abusing people most (BS or OW/OM or both). I believe it depends on the WS whether he or she belongs mainly in the Infidelity or the OW/OM forum or perhaps both. The WS often seem to fit well, and some even seem to prefer posting, in the OP forum. But I have seen WS respond snarky to any comments by OP, only wanting feedback from BS and other WS. In these cases I would say the WS would do better posting in the Infidelity forum. Personally I evaluate WS postings highly because through them I can understand the mindset of my MM. Well, I guess that would be not-reformed WSs. Hmm, I hadn't thought of that, that there exists something as a reformed WS just as well as a reformed OP. Edited January 29, 2010 by jennie-jennie
Devil Inside Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 BEJ..I hear you, it sucks to have bad experiences here when you come here after being hurt in your M...it is retraumatizing. One thing I do is I try to keep in mind that the real nasty comments are nothing personal. You can tell when someone is saying something because it helps THEM to work out THEIR issues...not YOURS. When someone is really nasty just remember.."the way they treat you is the way they feel about themselves." When I read some of the things posted by people here I just shake my head and think, "man, someone needs a hug." As for the whole BS/OW debate...I think it goes both ways...there are people that could use a lesson on kindness in both camps. I myself am both a WS and BS..so I hold no allegiance...I just hope to heal and help others.
Spark1111 Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 BEJ....I am a BS who came here fascinated by the OW/OM perspective, redirected by some internet url. I read, and cried for several months before I had the strength to join and post. Yes, some of the posts and posters have no remorse, no pain of guilt or conscience for the pain they caused us; we weren't even a blip on the radar for their entry into the affair with our spouse. Many of us had the pain of having our WS minimize at the least, trash talk us at the best, to another person who did not care one iota for our well-being. That hurts beyond belief...I know. But I read and I learned and I eventually healed from reading, reading, reading of the affair dynamic. And i dragged my WS with me EVERY STEP OF THE WAY on this journey; often times kicking and screaming and resisting all my questions, all my learning, all of my attempts to grow and heal us So like any 12-step program...take what you need and leave the rest, as painful as the "rest" can sometimes be.
Author BlueeyedJonesy Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 Spark, I find your story very inspiring...actually I find all of yours inspiring. But, spark you sound like a very smart woman and it sounds like you have grown from what happened to you. I like reading your posts. I know that sometimes it hurts to read what some OW post..but a lot of it is insightful, I know there are posters on here who are just miserable and you can tell by the snarky attempts to bring everyone else down. This site has been amazing for me...I've learned so much.
MizzBlue72 Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 I don't think the OM/OW forum is protected for OW only. I have seen many OW raked over the coals in that forum ... a LOT. Recently it has been really tame. Take what the other posters have said and learn from it. If you DO come out attacking / venting, someone will PROBABLY make a mistake and take it personally. It's NOT personal ... it's SITUATIONAL. As OW / BS, we have each found ourselves in one of those places at one time or another. I can tell you personally that yes, there IS a lot of people on here who are hurting and regret what they have done / are doing. And yes, there have been a LOT of people on here who have been lied to by MM/MW. I think the OM/OW spot IS a melting pot for both BS and OW/WM. It really has made me wake up and see a side of the relationship that I NEVER focused on prior to my A. EVERYONE hurts. I like what one poster said ... 'take what you like, and leave the rest!!!'. I do that. Oh - and there are some posts on here that I won't touch with a 10 foot pole because I KNOW that I want to give my .02 worth, and people WILL not like it. GREAT thing about this place?? It's Anonymous Good luck ... don't be afraid to go back into the OW/OM forum. You can still learn a lot So can I Good luck.
MARINE_ONE Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 I find this site VERY helpful because you get to see both sides...but I honestly think there are a few women on here who should think before they type..its sad that there are OW/OM who have no remorse or sympathy for the BS..and its those very few people that cause most of the bitterness in the BS. We have every reason to be bitter ya know? I did nothing wrong in my marriage..I'm clean, loving, honest, sexually adventerous, loyal, cook ALL the time..and take care of my H and children emotionally. That didn't stop him from telling his OW how horrible and pathetic I was...there are 2 sides to everything, do you have to be so cold???????? Just curious. Is there really another side to the story? I can't imagine ever listening to a word the OM has to say. He is married too and is cheating on his wife and kids. He sat on the phone with me 3 weeks ago (with his wife there) and said that he was happily married and wanted nothing from my wife. Now I hear he is divorcing her. (I have no idea if she knows that or not, but my guess is not) I think there are at least 3 sides to every story. Her side, his side and the truth. I have a question for you.... I sorta threatened this OM... Not cuz I want my wife back, cuz I don't now. But, I want to really knock the **** out of him for doing this to my kids, his kids, his wife, and to me. Did I make a mistake by doing this? Was I wrong? All I did was tell him that I was looking forward to meeting him someday and implied the other. I am really not sure that I could ever see him and not hit him.(the only thing that could stop me is common sense of knowing I would go to jail)
Author BlueeyedJonesy Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 Just curious. Is there really another side to the story? I can't imagine ever listening to a word the OM has to say. He is married too and is cheating on his wife and kids. He sat on the phone with me 3 weeks ago (with his wife there) and said that he was happily married and wanted nothing from my wife. Now I hear he is divorcing her. (I have no idea if she knows that or not, but my guess is not) I think there are at least 3 sides to every story. Her side, his side and the truth. I have a question for you.... I sorta threatened this OM... Not cuz I want my wife back, cuz I don't now. But, I want to really knock the **** out of him for doing this to my kids, his kids, his wife, and to me. Did I make a mistake by doing this? Was I wrong? All I did was tell him that I was looking forward to meeting him someday and implied the other. I am really not sure that I could ever see him and not hit him.(the only thing that could stop me is common sense of knowing I would go to jail) I don't think you did the wrong thing..I would probably do the same thing. I have an incident that I'm not too proud of but I felt better afterwards..Some of my good girl friends decided it was time for a night out..we went out. I was hammered, I know I shouldn't of been drinking in the emotional state I was in..but I did anyways..My friends thought it would be fun to go to the Strip club (they had no idea about my H incident) I went..drank some more...walked up to a stripper tapped her on the shoulder and asked as calm as can be.."how does it feel to be a paid homewrecker?" I don't remember any of it..but my friends say I was yelling at all the patron's "go home to your wives!!" "I bet your wives are at home with your kids..go home" as the bouncer was dragging me out. This was my low point..but ya know what? I felt alot better after it. LOL I think we all have different ways of dealing with emotions, and no one truly knows how they will handle a situation until they are actually in it. I think the best thing for you to do is to prove to your W that you don't need her. You can do it on your own, and gladly toss her to the OM. Most AP go after someone married because they are bored with life and want something they can't have. If he can have her..then where is the fun in that? she will come crawling back to you one day..I promise.
MARINE_ONE Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 I don't think you did the wrong thing..I would probably do the same thing. I have an incident that I'm not too proud of but I felt better afterwards..Some of my good girl friends decided it was time for a night out..we went out. I was hammered, I know I shouldn't of been drinking in the emotional state I was in..but I did anyways..My friends thought it would be fun to go to the Strip club (they had no idea about my H incident) I went..drank some more...walked up to a stripper tapped her on the shoulder and asked as calm as can be.."how does it feel to be a paid homewrecker?" I don't remember any of it..but my friends say I was yelling at all the patron's "go home to your wives!!" "I bet your wives are at home with your kids..go home" as the bouncer was dragging me out. This was my low point..but ya know what? I felt alot better after it. LOL I think we all have different ways of dealing with emotions, and no one truly knows how they will handle a situation until they are actually in it. I think the best thing for you to do is to prove to your W that you don't need her. You can do it on your own, and gladly toss her to the OM. Most AP go after someone married because they are bored with life and want something they can't have. If he can have her..then where is the fun in that? she will come crawling back to you one day..I promise. LOL... That is funny.. I bet the girls there were pretty mad at you, but they do deserve that or really the men that are there and married do. Luckily I know not to have a drink for a looooong time. I don't want to risk getting drunk, getting melancholy and calling her. Yuck!! That would be bad. Plus I can't risk being drunk if my kids call me and need my help. I hope she does come crawling back one day, just so I can tell her to hit the road. She had her chance with me.
realworldexplorer Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 To Marine One, I read your story and I can REALLY relate to your need for vengeance against the sick MM scumbag that took your wife. I also am struggling to get rid of a HUGE sense of frustration at not being able to do anything to the SOB that victimized me and tried to destroy my life. Through my wife I knew this man for years and he had come on trips with us and he befriended me (he also gave me gifts over the years). If I did not know this guy or if he stayed out of my face, this letting go problem would not be so bad. It is bad because there is nothing I can do to him that would provide me with justice and not land me in jail. Fortunately for him he lives in another country. I told my wife to "have at her" and go be with this person but she started to see the horror of the situation and begged for R. Our situation is very complicated and it has been 1.5 years, and I don't know if I will make it in the M. My wife says that it is all up to me and she is right. She has paid 10 fold for this but is trying to reinvent herself and put others first even though I believe she is hard wired for self. The emotions and rage that I have felt were the strongest and most damaging things I have ever felt in my life because the trust was big and the stakes were very high for everyone. I made it very clear to OM that I knew all and that in no uncertain terms I would be coming for him with my last breath and I explained very clearly what was in store. I have always been non violent and considered myself a pacifist but intrusion and betrayal on this scale is a real game changer. I of course can do nothing to him and I doubt that he knows that (poor him) so he can look over his shoulder for a while (probably develop a neck ailment). I can not understand why cheaters take the risks they do to have something that will probably disintegrate even if they get it. I was almost ready to give up my life to get this person rather than have to live the rest of my life being victimized by him. I am not going down that road but it easily could have gone that way. I understand better now the headlines I read in the newspapers and the motivations behind each tragic story involving infidelity and its sometimes fatal consequences. MO, I am sorry you are going through this shyte, but you sound like an honorable man with integrity. Hang on to those things and understand that there are others like that in that in the world and they can help you. Stay away from OM, resist the temptation (its hard, believe me) focus on others important to you and their well being, you will feel better and I can guarantee you that the OM is in for a long dark night of the soul. Take the buddhist slant that you embrace your friends, work through neutral people down to your enemies, that we are all sentient beings who are trying to avoid suffering. I am still working on that one and maybe I can get to the forgiveness point and a little serenity myself. Later.
Dexter Morgan Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 It goes both ways, Blueeyes..... Oftentimes you get what you give on this site. and oftentimes you get on this site what you dole out to others in real life
Spark1111 Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 I recall one brand-new BS in her immediate pain did almost exactly that. It was a "thank you letter to the OW" because she and her H were having a lot of make-up sex. As you might imagine, a lot of OW took major offense to that. That poster is quite likeable, and that post wasn't really representative of her contribution to the LS community since then. I figure that sometimes when any one of us is having a particularly painful day, we may lash out at the closest representative of the "opposite" group. I think I have a better idea of where you're coming from now and what you are referring to. The poster you are referring to is sort of an anomoly, and not really similar to the other women who identify as OW or fOW. BL... that is referred to as hysterical bonding or reclaiming. It is fairly common and can be indicative of the reconciliation success. Only love can release those hormones. And yes, people are in different stages of pain. If the discovery of the betrayal is new, than everyone is somewhat out of their minds. Now that I recognize it on both sides, OW/OM or BS, it disturbs me less... I say, ahhh they just found out or they were just thrown under the bus... I get where they are in the process, and only over time do I NOW not take their rage or pain or vindictiveness personally. That is almost impossible to do immediately after DDAY. More perplexing to me are those who still attack after years of posting here. I ignore them, or laugh. They have learned nothing and show up to purposely agitate or provoke. What is the point of it all, if not to learn and grow and heal?
jennie-jennie Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 BL... that is referred to as hysterical bonding or reclaiming. It is fairly common and can be indicative of the reconciliation success. Only love can release those hormones. Spark, I don't think that is true. My best friend had been tired of her SO for a long time, and was only having sex with him very sporadically. In came another woman. My best friend became very competitive and started to have sex with him very frequently - obviously hysterical bonding. This continued for a couple of months after the other woman was out of the picture. Then my BFF became as tired of him and having sex with him as before, thinking once again of ending the relationship. It was the competition and the marking of territory that had caused the hysterical bonding.
White Flower Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Why the heck doesn't this site have a BS section?!?!?!? I am so ****ing sick of OW/OM coming here and saying whatever they damn well please but if one of us go to the OW/OM forum we are jumped! Why the hell is there a double standard on this site???? I love coming here and spilling my guts and feelings to a bunch of complete strangers but I find SOME of the stuff that people write hurtful..and its just the wrong place for it...sorry just venting... Hey BEJ, I think it is a good question because it happens on both sides. Actually, I think it is healthy, for the most part, to have objectives from all sides because it gives the poster a well-rounded idea of how the full spectrum thinks. As an OW, I have gone to web sites that cater only to OW and to tell you the truth, I came right back here with all the bickering and mud-slinging because I enjoy true debate and I can't get that if I join a 'club' where all the people in it think alike. Adversity is the key to success. Ask those who suffered the potato famine. We need different perspectives in order to make truly informed opinions about any given subject. That is why we go to college if you think about it. Having said all that I agree that our differing beliefs should not arouse rude or inflamed behavior. I try to be congenial, but I admit I've come off defensive if I'm really attacked. Other than that, some of my favorite posters are BW and I feel I get some of my best insight from them. After all, we're in love with the same person, no? We should see ourselves as having something in common.
White Flower Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Spark, I don't think that is true. My best friend had been tired of her SO for a long time, and was only having sex with him very sporadically. In came another woman. My best friend became very competitive and started to have sex with him very frequently - obviously hysterical bonding. This continued for a couple of months after the other woman was out of the picture. Then my BFF became as tired of him and having sex with him as before, thinking once again of ending the relationship. It was the competition and the marking of territory that had caused the hysterical bonding. I am sure there are a few types of HB. The one Spark was identifying comes when a couple who suffer from an A truly do realized their lost love returned and they are just so grateful that their bonding seems (or is) hysterical. I'm sure it is very passionate and emotional. The one you describe is another kind. My sister did exactly this when she discovered her fiancé was having an affair. She got all freaky on him and he really enjoyed it, praising her for weeks on end. But it did not cause them to reconcile and their R eventually ended. The HB was only one-sided and her partner only enjoyed the passion coming from her. For him it was merely physical but for her it was emotional as well as physical. She had hoped it was HB, but I think for it to be truly HB, both have to feel it. I'm sure it serves to strengthen the M/bond.
bentnotbroken Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 I am sure there are a few types of HB. The one Spark was identifying comes when a couple who suffer from an A truly do realized their lost love returned and they are just so grateful that their bonding seems (or is) hysterical. I'm sure it is very passionate and emotional. The one you describe is another kind. My sister did exactly this when she discovered her fiancé was having an affair. She got all freaky on him and he really enjoyed it, praising her for weeks on end. But it did not cause them to reconcile and their R eventually ended. The HB was only one-sided and her partner only enjoyed the passion coming from her. For him it was merely physical but for her it was emotional as well as physical. She had hoped it was HB, but I think for it to be truly HB, both have to feel it. I'm sure it serves to strengthen the M/bond. This is also what I have read. It serves as a wake-up call to both spouses. As you said, it can't be one sided for a relationship to survive.
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