steve9417 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) i've been dating a mum with a 12 year old for some 2 months now - i do like her a lot and i'd like the relationship to work ..... she does like me and has recently introduced me to her son and some close friends so the message is clear that she wants us to work ..... she also talks about things in the future tense so its all positive ...... BUT she can be very shy at times but more importantly very closed emotionally - her father was emotionally abusive to her, she's suffered from depression a few times in her life, she's had 2 abusive relationships in her life - one of which was so abusive she's hidden from sharing with anyone for over 15 years (she mentioned it to me in passing) - at times when we're together she can suddenly go very quite and distant ..... i'm aware this is her way of coping with experiences that are difficult or those that remind her of her past - unfortunately for us i need a partner whose more open and genuine ..... and that's the real bugger - she's an attractive person and can be fun to be around, its just that some of her life experiences have been terrible - i don't want to pull the plug but i think i will have to unless she can start to allow me into her world ........ and i will if thats what i need to do i'm aware that she's a mother and the child must come first - i'm independent and can look after myself but i need a partner thats more open and emotionally mature we're meeting tomorrow before i go away for 2 weeks and part of me wants to mention it - how i feel our relationship can sometimes be distant and cold (which i've not done before) and another says hold off for now as its still early in the relationship and to give her a little more time to let her defenses lower ....... thoughts appreciated ...... thanks Edited January 28, 2010 by steve9417
txsilkysmoothe Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Are you saying she doesn't open up to you by expressing affection and connecting with you? Or do you want her to talk about her past abuse? As a victim of abuse myself, I can tell you, talking about it is something a person never wants to do. It's been more than 20 years for me, and there are things I have never told my family. A "smell" can remind me of a horrible incident and it is a challenge to put it out of my head and stay in the present. Someone will jump out from behind a door to playfully scare me, and I literally cry sometimes (can't prevent it) and for a split second I think "is it my abuser? did he come for me after all these years?" My thought is you have no idea what a relationship with this woman will require of you. You seem to expect her to conform to your thinking and your way of coping with life; only focusing on your own needs. I can tell you she would do that in a heartbeat if she could because no one wants to live with the kind of misery she carries inside. I think she has shared quite a bit in only two months. If you cannot be a support system to her, aid her in healing from her past, be patient with her and put your needs on a back burner, you do need to "pull the plug" as you put it. I don't think you possess the kind of sensitivity that an abused woman requires from a man.
betamanlet Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 She'll eventually seek out men like her father. Women with pasts like that seek it out.
txsilkysmoothe Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 She'll eventually seek out men like her father. Women with pasts like that seek it out. I never did. It's when a woman doesn't get help from family, friends, and professionals and learn about the cycle of abuse that she is susceptible to ending up with another abuser.
OceanTropic Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I think its a good idea to bring it up. You are leaving for 2 weeks, thats two weeks of time she will have to think all of this information over. She can take time for herself and think about the relationship, and think about what you have said. I think it would be a healthy choice. You won't be there to make her feel pressured or insecure (not that you intentionally do this, but she might react this way) so I think its a good idea you tell her before you leave
carhill Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 My suggestion, having been married to one of those, is to encourage her to get IC and establish a firm boundary as to what you expect regarding emotional intimacy. I can tell you, IME, without substantial work (stbx resisted working on this aspect within MC), I doubt a healthy relationship would/will result. She's not 'wrong', but perhaps, and likely, considering your OP, incompatible. There's some things in life which just aren't meant to mix together. That's OK. Right now, you've got a lot of happiness to give. So did I, ten years ago. Beware of the black hole....
betamanlet Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I never did. It's when a woman doesn't get help from family, friends, and professionals and learn about the cycle of abuse that she is susceptible to ending up with another abuser. But like with any self esteem issue in a female, you have to on your own, have the desire and motivation to get help. If he gets her to do it, for him, it won't work. It's got to be on your own for you to want to get help.
carhill Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 She'll eventually seek out men like her father. Women with pasts like that seek it out. Absent efficacious psychological work, every one of my experiences with such a woman, whether as a friend or romantic interest, supports this. There's a lot of water under that bridge. The tampon never forgets..
DiscoChick Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Are you saying she doesn't open up to you by expressing affection and connecting with you? Or do you want her to talk about her past abuse? As a victim of abuse myself, I can tell you, talking about it is something a person never wants to do. It's been more than 20 years for me, and there are things I have never told my family. A "smell" can remind me of a horrible incident and it is a challenge to put it out of my head and stay in the present. Someone will jump out from behind a door to playfully scare me, and I literally cry sometimes (can't prevent it) and for a split second I think "is it my abuser? did he come for me after all these years?" My thought is you have no idea what a relationship with this woman will require of you. You seem to expect her to conform to your thinking and your way of coping with life; only focusing on your own needs. I can tell you she would do that in a heartbeat if she could because no one wants to live with the kind of misery she carries inside. I think she has shared quite a bit in only two months. If you cannot be a support system to her, aid her in healing from her past, be patient with her and put your needs on a back burner, you do need to "pull the plug" as you put it. I don't think you possess the kind of sensitivity that an abused woman requires from a man. I agree completely with this post. I am also a victim of abuse (not by my parents), and I know it took me almost two years to open up emotionally to my ex. I mean, really. He's the only person alive that truly knows, and he was very supportive. You know? He said it explained a lot about me. I am emotionally distant, and I also will go into my own mind. I do not feel comfortable in large crowds and being alone in a roomful of people I don't know does make me sick. I know I have a long way to go to help myself, but I've learned what makes me happy and comfortable. If you cannot be supportive and help her deal with this, then you are correct in wanting to get out of the relationship. It is not easy to deal with. She needs a strong friend/companion that is willing to take the time to understand where her pain comes from and help her deal with it. I know this sounds redundant, but just be supportive. She'll talk about it when she's ready. Don't press her or you'll push her away. Again, just be supportive and available.
SoulSearch_CO Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Only 2 months? I had an emotionally very abusive father and it has created some hang-ups for me. I imagine people have had MUCH worse situations than I have had. But even so, I didn't go for broke sharing everything with the guy I'm dating until month 5. And the only reason it came up was because somebody was DRENCHED in the cologne my bio-father used to wear and the emotions welled up uncontrollably. We happened to be talking - I was having flashbacks, so I shared. For the time being, just provide that safe space - share things about yourself so she can see it's "safe." If she's GOING to open up, she will eventually. But 2 months is a bit quick to expect THAT level of intimacy, IMO. She'll eventually seek out men like her father. Women with pasts like that seek it out. That's a load. I haven't dated a single man like my POS father. In fact, how much they are NOT like him is what makes them MAJORLY attractive. Once again, Beta - get over your stereotypical thinking. It's such crap.
carhill Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 My stbx was open at the superficial levels and talked about her abuse in a matter-of-fact way. The true nature didn't appear until much later and most significantly after marrying, when I came to discover, just as the details were matter-of-fact (thought out), so was the empathy and caring. There was no emotional center. Everything was cognitive. It continues to this day during our divorce action. She communicates absolutely no emotion at all, and with unwavering consistency. Years ago, I recall laughing at a funny TV show (one of her favorites) and asking her 'don't you think that's funny?'. Anwer: 'I was laughing inside'. Like I said prior, my happiness and willingness to share clouded my vision. It was a mistake of ignorance. Marriage was a good teacher. Incompatible.
paddington bear Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 All I'll say is beware of slipping into that emotional crutch position. I've done this time and time again with emotionally damaged men. Did they ask me to? Expect me to? No, I just automatically slipped into that role and then months or years later realised that I'm not a therapist and I can't help them and I eventually got sick of my position as helper instead of equal partner - but I can't blame the other party, I put myself in this position. All I'm saying is that it is so easy to meet someone and feel strongly for them. You care for and want to make things better, you want to be allowed in, you want to be allowed to care. When that actually does happen, later you find you've got totally sucked into the role catering for someone who has suffered abuse in the past, while simultaneously letting all your own wants and needs go addressed and get resentful. And that's not good for either of you.
txsilkysmoothe Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 But like with any self esteem issue in a female, you have to on your own, have the desire and motivation to get help. If he gets her to do it, for him, it won't work. It's got to be on your own for you to want to get help. I agree betamanlet. But after I got out of my abusive relationship, it didn't even occur to me that my next relationship couldn't be healthy. I didn't realize the baggage I was carrying into that relationship. Someone had to tell me what I had been through was the cause of problems that seemed unrelated on the surface. You want to believe "I'm out of it -it's in the past." My point is she may not realize the extent to which her past will affect her ability to have a healthy relationship. It's a hard thing to accept - that a horrible thing that is over will continue to mess up your life?! I don't think the OP is capable of dealing with her problems and I don't blame him for it. It's just sad for both of them.
Author steve9417 Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 Thanks for the thoughts ....... firstly i believe people continue to seek their past until they've learnt not to ... i'm light years on from her previous relationships so she's safe but i'm not a rescuer (that's the role of professionals) i'm a partner in a relationship looking for an equal - that said i have a strong caring side and she has opened to me as she's felt safe Are you saying she doesn't open up to you by expressing affection and connecting with you? Or do you want her to talk about her past abuse? i don't want her to talk about her past abuse - that's not important to me ...... i just would prefer for her to share with me what her world is like rather than going into shut down My thought is you have no idea what a relationship with this woman will require of you. You seem to expect her to conform to your thinking and your way of coping with life; only focusing on your own needs. I can tell you she would do that in a heartbeat if she could because no one wants to live with the kind of misery she carries inside. I think she has shared quite a bit in only two months. If you cannot be a support system to her, aid her in healing from her past, be patient with her and put your needs on a back burner, you do need to "pull the plug" as you put it. I don't think you possess the kind of sensitivity that an abused woman requires from a man. txsilkysmoothe - i appreciate your knowledge and your insight - i have no doubt that what you've experienced is in a way what she's perhaps gone though - it seems you've worked at this since what happened - its unfair of me to label my partner as not having worked on herself when i've only know her 5 minutes its just i don't sense her openness (she did mention that she might consider seeing a counselor at the weekend, when she'd previously said they were a waste of time) ..... i'm a person who has a strong understanding of the therapeutic healing process and the core conditions needed to help facilitate it ......... with that insight i also know i'm ignoring my needs as a person if i just concede to her needs to play cold - if she can't open then the relationship won't work - it really is as simple as that ...... if i'm to act as some type of healer/supporter/aid as well as partner then my emotional needs are very very important can people really change ? i believe that they can make their life significantly better but they have to want it for themselves and not for anyone else (conditional love would just be her repeating her past with me and i'm not interested in that game) ........ & remember i'm not here to save her - that's for her to want and i'm happy to support her if needed - she is just so caught in non experience due to the fact that experience would illicit painful memories and thats the bugger in all of this - she's missing out on so much through her learnt defenses in case folks are thinking i'm not capable of dealing with problems such as a partner who has this type of past - then why would i debate it openly here ....... this is complex stuff of course - that's why i can see what i'm potentially getting involved in - what i'm on the cusp of doing is checking out whether she's prepared to open her memories to experience ....... without that i doubt she is prepared to take us seriously
txsilkysmoothe Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Steve, I didn't mean to sound as if I was criticizing you; rather based on your original post, I thought you seemed naive regarding the seriousness of her problems as well as in your expectation that she could possibly meet your needs. I absolutely agree that it's not your responsibility to fix her or sacrifice your needs or happiness in an attempt to be with her. It is obvious you care very much and you have given this much thought. I certainly admire your willingness to even consider a relationship with her as many would not. I apologize if I offended you. You should not feel bad whatsoever for ending the relationship. It is a difficult decision and you deserve happiness. Perhaps if the relationship ends, it will prompt her to realize she must deal with her past. Best wishes..............
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