Johnny M Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Anything worth having is worth working hard for. If you actually believe this, you shouldn't have a problem 'hanging out' with a guy you are interested in. After all, if you like him, you wouldn't mind working hard to impress him with your qualities while the two of you are seeing each other casually. Hopefully, the end result of your hard work would be the guy being impressed enough to ask you out on a more formal date. But it seems to me that you are being a little self-serving here. You claim that anything worth having is worth working hard for, yet you don't want to put any effort into getting to know the other person first. You want absolute certainty right from the start.
Johnny M Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Having a formal date is actually advantageous to the guy moreso than the woman these days. IME, loose, unstructured plans end up screwing the man over more often than the woman. Women's GFs and other guys are notorious for arm-twisting to get a woman to change tentative plans in favor of them, it's a female friendship power and control thing, and a wormy, wussy man's favorite CBing tactic. They won't do this as much if she says she has a date. Until they are seriously attracted, people are prone to flake and blow off "hangout" plans at the drop of a hat. So many threads here evidence this. "But... but... we had plans to "hang out" today and I can't reach her now!" My point is that you can call the same activity a DATE or hanging out....but it's still the same activity (i.e. going for a walk in the park). So I take that it's the big D-word that gets women all excited.
stace79 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 My point is that you can call the same activity a DATE or hanging out....but it's still the same activity (i.e. going for a walk in the park). So I take that it's the big D-word that gets women all excited. It's called being clear in what you want. Women are at a disadvantage, because IME most guys can take or leave a relationship. Women typically are wanting a relationship. So to spend time with a guy who you have no idea what he's out for is wasted time. You can call it whatever you want, I guess -- I just want to know what you're out for -- friendship, FWB, just sex or dating.
meerkat stew Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 My point is that you can call the same activity a DATE or hanging out....but it's still the same activity (i.e. going for a walk in the park). So I take that it's the big D-word that gets women all excited. No one uses the "D" word when asking out. No one says "Would you like to go on a DATE with me?" When you ask someone to do a specific thing at a specific place at a specific time, a reasonable amount of time in advance, it is understood as a date, regardless of what it's called. Most people think of hanging out as spur of the moment or leaving lots of details open. For example, "Want to hang out on Sunday?" or "want to grab some drinks this afternoon?" Sure there's a gray area, but the difference is fairly clear. If someone says, "Want to hang out with me in Central Park at 5 PM on Wednesday and meet at the boathouse?" it's a date regardless of the use of hanging out.
Author Itzo Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 That's just it -- there's no real definition. It could be a guy that I click with who just wants to be my friend. It could be a dirtbag wanting to hang out and try and get in my pants. Or it could be a guy who's interested in me but too afraid to speak up. Or a guy who's interested in me who's to cheap to take me out for a drink. I'm sure there's other alternative definitions, too! Since "hanging out" may have so many definitions or possible situations, how you define its characteristics as useless? You are picking up moments when guyz were hanging out with you and were victims of the friends-zone. This doesn't mean hanging out necessarily means that men are getting into the friend zone. Hanging outs usually, if used well, can amplify the attraction between men & women. Being on a date is already an old school, there is not passion of the moment, because you are expecting to BE on a date. And therefore the social preassure increases, as well as your expectations. What makes you think in a "dating mode" men are NOT going to get into the friends zone? While hanging out the guy can ask out the girl at anytime ... Moreover, women ARE NOT interested in guyz who ask them out. It seems needy and pushy ... this kills the attraction. When you add somments in my threads, please think about your reasoning, because it really sucks
meerkat stew Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 When you add somments in my threads, please think about your reasoning, because it really sucks Well, the "reasoning" in the passage you quote in your OP also leaves a lot to be desired, and doesn't meaningfully deal with the issue of whether "Dating is a WASTE OF MONEY!" or not.
stace79 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Well, the "reasoning" in the passage you quote in your OP also leaves a lot to be desired, and doesn't meaningfully deal with the issue of whether "Dating is a WASTE OF MONEY!" or not. Clearly he just wants a "logical" (as he calls it anyway) reason NOT to pay money to take a woman out to eat or something along those lines. Clearly not my type anyway. As I said before, I'd prefer a real man who knows what he wants and isn't afraid to make his intentions clear.
Johnny M Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 It's called being clear in what you want. Women are at a disadvantage, because IME most guys can take or leave a relationship. Women typically are wanting a relationship. Actually, this is a huge misconception. There was a study done on the subject and it turns out that women initiate 70% of all breakups.
Author Itzo Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 My point is that you can call the same activity a DATE or hanging out....but it's still the same activity (i.e. going for a walk in the park). So I take that it's the big D-word that gets women all excited. This is what I meant when I said, For men is "hanging out" for women is a "date." They are the same thing, but with different interpretations from both sexes.
DiscoChick Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I thought dating was a way for someone to go out and do something exciting either with a person they just met or with their SO. Dating does not have to cost an arm and leg. Dating shouldn't cost an arm and leg unless the people can afford it. If a guy takes a women to an expensive restaurant, he does so of his own volition. He can't blame the woman. It's stupid of him to go beyond what he can afford anyway. Sitting in a cafe with a drink and just talking is fun. I do enjoy hanging out, but that may just be me. I prefer staying in and watching a movie or playing video games. I'd like to know a guy before we go out holding hands in public.
Awesome Username Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I thought dating was a way for someone to go out and do something exciting either with a person they just met or with their SO. Dating does not have to cost an arm and leg. Dating shouldn't cost an arm and leg unless the people can afford it. If a guy takes a women to an expensive restaurant, he does so of his own volition. He can't blame the woman. It's stupid of him to go beyond what he can afford anyway. This post wins.
meerkat stew Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 This is what I meant when I said, For men is "hanging out" for women is a "date." They are the same thing, but with different interpretations from both sexes. I disagree, both men and women know generally what is meant by a date, and whether they are on one, and what is meant by hanging out, and know when they are doing that too.
Author Itzo Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 I see both sides, and have been doing lots of thinking about this in anticipation of Spring and getting a new GF, so will weigh in with what I've been thinking. Dating is indeed outmoded if it is thought of as a process of getting to know another person during alone time. The reason it exists is that it was not acceptable behavior for men and women to spend time alone unsupervised in days past. The "date" allowed interaction and some supervision by family. Everyone knew where everyone was (for the most part). The point is that dating was originally a supervision method enforced by families. "If you want to spend time with my daughter, you will do so in accordance with certain rules." This rationale still exists today for some teenagers, depending on the mores of the family, but after leaving home, not so much. So viewed as above, dating is archaic. Adults are used to conducting their social lives in an unsupervised, unstructured fashion as they please these days. Why add a layer of structure onto this? The answer is that there are still some good reasons for dating today. People are busier now than ever. People work long hours. They want to get the maximum out of their social time. Hanging out on a couch may be ok for very young people or people with no financial means, but after a certain amount of hanging out in life, people want to get more out of their social time as they do all free time, and this requires planning. Killer fun 3 day weekend trips don't come to pass when one always takes a "let's hang out" attitude. After a point in life, social time becomes too important to waste "hanging out" all the time. Much of the most fun stuff in life requires some planning. You don't get tickets to the show that will sell out in an hour by "hanging out" and waiting for the tickets to fall in your lap. OK enough redundancy for one paragraph There is another good reason to date, because it increases control over social interactions. I enjoy having the structure in place. I know what my obligations are, what she expects, and what I expect. I know when it begins and when it ends. I have more control of a dating process than a hanging out half-ass plan, as does she. There are enough surprises and challenges in early meeting without adding the uncertainties of a fly by the seat of the pants attitude. Having the structure in place actually simplifies things and doesn't leave any party wondering in limbo about what X means, or what Y means, and more structure would actually get rid of many of the angsty confused threads posters make here about their confusion with the opposite sex. If he asked for a date, he likes you, if she said yes, she likes you. It's not a cure-all or foolproof, but cuts lots of confusion right out of the picture that can still exist in a "hanging out" scenario. People take more time looking good for a date, getting psyched up, anticipate more. I've had sex that just happens hanging out, and sex that starts long before the date takes place with flirtation, planning and anticipation of a date on both ends, and will take the latter every time. It's that much better. IME, women will sleep with duds, do it constantly as media has convinced us all that we are missing out if we aren't constantly humping each other. Women gravitate in a more passionate, enduring way, though, to men who are in control of their appearance, their lives and their plans for the future. A planned, fun date sends all kinds of good signals to a healthy woman, provided it's not a "phoned in" cliche dinner and movie (that's fine every now and then though, as is hanging on the couch). Once you get good at it, it is a strong attraction tool, and you will almost never have to wonder if she wants to see you again when your first date game is at its peak. And the final point. Men don't have to date to get sex today. If plain ole sex is all you are looking for, no need to date at all, it may even be counterproductive, as a certain large subsection of the female population actually perceives a man asking out on a date as weak as opposed to the man who can pick her up without the date when deciding who to have sex with. If on the other hand, you want a GF or marriage in time, dating is the way to signal a woman that you are a suitor, rather than a boy trying to get laid. They know the deal with us, and the smart women may have flings, but they don't take "hang out dudes" seriously as mate potential generally if they have more serious options with men who are in the driver's seat of their lives. If I were in high school or college again, I would put much more emphasis on hanging out as opposed to formal dates because dates build needless pressure which can kill attraction, spontaneity wins over structure almost every time in youth. Also, "dating" for high school and college aged men is a deck stacked against them. The playing field was more even when men could expect that the woman wasn't socializing outside dating, outside her family's supervision. Young people don't seem to appreciate any structure at all, they don't have to as they have the illusion that there's all the time in the world. After college though, I would date more and "hang out" less. I missed some good opportunities in my 20s and 30s by hanging out more than dating. In my 40s, I don't have time or desire to "hang out" until a relationship is in place. So the answer for any given person as to whether to date or not may be age and goal dependent. wow, I like this post. You should write a book on this topic, you've got a lot of expertise. The title of your book should be, "Why dating sucks for most men before college?"
Author Itzo Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) I disagree, both men and women know generally what is meant by a date, and whether they are on one, and what is meant by hanging out, and know when they are doing that too. I respect your disagreement. I tend to think that many people have their own interpretation over certain words, like dating, fear, frustration, hanging out ... These are just words that describe things, since everyone of us live in their own reality, these words may have different meanings behind the scenes for these people. That's why I said it as two different perspectives, meaning the same thing. Well, they could never mean the same thing as long as men are different from women. I could only blame the testosterone for this Edited January 28, 2010 by Itzo
Author Itzo Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 The guy's advice essentially boils down to this: instead of taking her out for dinner and a movie, take her out for drinks. Did he really have to write an article just to say that? No ... he writes this article to show the importance of spontaneity of the moment as an important piece of the puzzle and not having the idea of money in people's minds when it comes to getting girls.
espec10001 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I'd love to ask a girl out on an ADVENTURE! Are there any girls out there who like adventures anymore? Like hunting for ghosts or taking a telescope and looking at the moon or search for treasure. Or even just taking to the road and see where it leads? I miss those days, exciting "dates" where you don't know what is going to happen, and it makes you feel like the man in charge. It's hard to find adventurous and open minded ladies these days. I know they are out there, but I don't know where to find them.
Jesper Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I'd love to ask a girl out on an ADVENTURE! Are there any girls out there who like adventures anymore? Like hunting for ghosts or taking a telescope and looking at the moon or search for treasure. Or even just taking to the road and see where it leads? I miss those days, exciting "dates" where you don't know what is going to happen, and it makes you feel like the man in charge. It's hard to find adventurous and open minded ladies these days. I know they are out there, but I don't know where to find them. I read somewhere that getting a girl's adrenaline pumping (like during a scary movie or something) is a great way to get her to bond and feel attraction for you. Ghost hunting wins! Especially if you have a supposedly haunted house to visit or something That sounds like a blast; I've done things like that before. I think most people probably have.
DiscoChick Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I'd love to ask a girl out on an ADVENTURE! Are there any girls out there who like adventures anymore? Like hunting for ghosts or taking a telescope and looking at the moon or search for treasure. Or even just taking to the road and see where it leads? I miss those days, exciting "dates" where you don't know what is going to happen, and it makes you feel like the man in charge. It's hard to find adventurous and open minded ladies these days. I know they are out there, but I don't know where to find them. Me!!!!! I don't know the typical type of woman that would be up for this, but you can simply ask her during casual conversation.
AngelicSerenity Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Hmmm, interesting. I think I almost agree
donnamaybe Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I'd love to ask a girl out on an ADVENTURE! Are there any girls out there who like adventures anymore? Like hunting for ghosts or taking a telescope and looking at the moon or search for treasure. Or even just taking to the road and see where it leads? I miss those days, exciting "dates" where you don't know what is going to happen, and it makes you feel like the man in charge. It's hard to find adventurous and open minded ladies these days. I know they are out there, but I don't know where to find them. I LOVE stargazing with a telescope (or even without one - finding constellations, for example) and I absolutely ADORE road trips!!!!
espec10001 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I read somewhere that getting a girl's adrenaline pumping (like during a scary movie or something) is a great way to get her to bond and feel attraction for you. Ghost hunting wins! Especially if you have a supposedly haunted house to visit or something That sounds like a blast; I've done things like that before. I think most people probably have. Yeah. I used to date this girl, and we'd go camping in a tent in the woods, pretty woodsy too. At night if it was windy there would be all these sounds outside the tent, like bears or something where walking around it. She got so scared everytime gasping "What was that?" and she was more close to me for assuring her it was nothing. I felt like I was there to protect her, it made me feel very manly. It's funny how us guys get intimidated by beautiful women, but put them in scary or uncertain situations, they turn into little girls and it's so cute
Author Itzo Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 I'd love to ask a girl out on an ADVENTURE! Are there any girls out there who like adventures anymore? Like hunting for ghosts or taking a telescope and looking at the moon or search for treasure. Or even just taking to the road and see where it leads? I miss those days, exciting "dates" where you don't know what is going to happen, and it makes you feel like the man in charge. It's hard to find adventurous and open minded ladies these days. I know they are out there, but I don't know where to find them. Right, cave-man attracts girls the most I am not being ironic here
Chicago_Guy Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Well this is of course this is from my experience(mostly in undergrad). I think you are just as likely to get friendzoned if you are dating then if you just try to skip that part. If the women is attracted to you, then you ussually won't end up in the friend zone. Yes some good things are worth working hard for, but everything that you have to work hard for isn't good, and everything that is good, you don't necessarily have to work hard for. And there is no reason to work hard for something you don't have too. Dating is a means to end(a relationship, marriage etc). Most of the people who say dating is fun in and of itself are women. I think you are correct! I have heard people say how fun dating is supposed to be so much fun, but now that I think about it, women seem to be the only ones who ever say this.
Author Itzo Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 I think you are correct! I have heard people say how fun dating is supposed to be so much fun, but now that I think about it, women seem to be the only ones who ever say this. Right, why you think is that?
Chicago_Guy Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Right, why you think is that? It sounds cynical to say this, but since the man usually pays, the woman gets free entertainment and an ego boost among other things.
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