Itzo Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 This article is written by Cory Skyy, so it is NOT my "poetry." I agree 99.8% with it! Just check it out! Dating is old-school thinking. Back in the 40's and 50's, that's what you did with a girl. You would pick her up from her parents' house, take her out for dinner and a movie, and kiss her goodnight on the front porch. It doesn't work like this anymore. In the modern world, dating isn't exciting nor passionate... and yet most guys still cling to it because it fits the traditional rules that have been drummed into their heads by parents and society. What they end up doing is boring the poor girl to death because it's exactly what every other guy has done. By being authentic and going against the grain of what a typical guy does, you automatically... and naturally... draw out curiosity and sexual desire in women. Which is why you want to make yourself different from every other guy out there. So don't do what every other guy does. A woman expects a man to follow the rules and kiss up to her. Instead, do something different... because deep down, that's what she really wants you to do. Women love the unexpected. Women love spontaneity. There is nothing spontaneous about dinner and a movie. Not to mention all the pressure and expectations that go along with dating. All the anxiety you feel about "doing it right" and "impressing her" causes nothing but pre-date tension that can make you act like an idiot while you're on the date. Even the word "date" itself is loaded with performance anxiety. Plus, there's the danger of wasting your hard-earned money on a girl you may never want to see again. Way back when I was 19, I used to take girls on dates because I too fell in the trap of society's rules. But seeing as I was already great with women, I was going on 3-4 different dates a week. Most of the time, the girls proved to be total whack-jobs by the end of the night. ll I usually ended up with was an empty wallet. At the time, I was only making $1500 a month, so you can see the trouble I was creating for myself. Ramen noodles quickly became my staple food. Another reason many guys feel that they need to buy a big expensive dinner is this crazy notion that all women want a guy with money. Yes, money can influence a woman with certain guys. But trust me, I was dead broke for many years of my life, and I never had any problem stealing a girl's interest from a rich guy she had been talking to. When you change your mindset to "I am THE man", women see it in you. This is so powerful that many women will pay for your dinner, take you on a trip, or fly you into whatever city they're in. Trust me, it happens a lot more often than you may think. So what's better than dating? Simple. Hanging out. If you meet a girl and you want to get to know her, say, "Hey, I'm going over to Bill's Bar on Friday night. Why don't you hang with me for a few drinks?" The more casual the place, the more casual the conversation, the more comfortable the situation will be for you and for her. Don't let this happen to you. You don't have to impress a girl by paying for fancy dinners. That's not what women really want, anyway. What they want is a unique experience with a unique guy. Be that unique guy.
alphamale Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Don't let this happen to you. You don't have to impress a girl by paying for fancy dinners. That's not what women really want, anyway. What they want is a unique experience with a unique guy. Be that unique guy. indeed itzo, indeed
counterman Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I liked that post. I think something casual is pretty awesome as well as opposed to something overly fancy.
OnlyJake Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 "Hanging out" is what causes confusion in the first place. Just as an example, pretty much all the threads on here that are asking if he's interested/what are we/is he playing me/can I bring this up are started because the guy is just "hanging out" with the girl. Anytime one of my girl friends has a question or an issue or confusion with a guy, it's because he just wants to "hang out" with her. "Hanging out" is what FWBs or **** buddies do. Possibly, "hanging out" is also what high school and college kids do. Thumbs down. I'm chalking this article up under stupid advice men are getting.
BackUpOrGetStung Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I agree, but this is very obvious. Does the author think he is some sort of Casanova for "coming up with this"? Do you think he is, OP? If so, you need a new role model.
stace79 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 "Hanging out" is what causes confusion in the first place. Just as an example, pretty much all the threads on here that are asking if he's interested/what are we/is he playing me/can I bring this up are started because the guy is just "hanging out" with the girl. Anytime one of my girl friends has a question or an issue or confusion with a guy, it's because he just wants to "hang out" with her. "Hanging out" is what FWBs or **** buddies do. Possibly, "hanging out" is also what high school and college kids do. Thumbs down. I'm chalking this article up under stupid advice men are getting. AMEN to all of this reply. You are absolutely correct. If a girl is possibly worth being in a relationship with, then she's worth the effort to get to know her a little bit by manning up and asking her on a DATE. It doesn't have to be to Emeril's and cost an arm/leg. I'm all for a casual happy hour or dinner or even just a walk in the park. But make clear it's a DATE you're after, and not just another friend or FWB. If you're complaining about ending up with nothing but an empty wallet after most of your dates, then maybe you need to start examining the type of girls you're interested in asking out to begin with.
Author Itzo Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 AMEN to all of this reply. You are absolutely correct. If a girl is possibly worth being in a relationship with, then she's worth the effort to get to know her a little bit by manning up and asking her on a DATE. It doesn't have to be to Emeril's and cost an arm/leg. I'm all for a casual happy hour or dinner or even just a walk in the park. But make clear it's a DATE you're after, and not just another friend or FWB. If you're complaining about ending up with nothing but an empty wallet after most of your dates, then maybe you need to start examining the type of girls you're interested in asking out to begin with. I see your concern .. but this is from a female's point of view! As a man, we have to hang out with a woman first, to get to know her .. to see if she's worth the attention in the first place. Men DO NOT SET A DATE first, you know ... casual meeting is what takes for a man to figure out the girl, or what she has to offer other than her looks. Men call it hanging out, women call it a DATE. This is from both perspectives, because men & women interpret attraction in a different ways.
Awesome Username Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 As a woman, I would feel less pressure if it was just a cheap hangout thing instead of a date at first. You might as well get to know the person before you invest your time and money in them! Also, I do not want to dress up for somebody who I could potentially not like as a person, right? There is a lot of sexual pressure with certain men when it comes to dating too, like the three date sex rule. It would be nice to weed out men who think that dating is legalized prostitution.
stace79 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I see your concern .. but this is from a female's point of view! As a man, we have to hang out with a woman first, to get to know her .. to see if she's worth the attention in the first place. Men DO NOT SET A DATE first, you know ... casual meeting is what takes for a man to figure out the girl, or what she has to offer other than her looks. Men call it hanging out, women call it a DATE. This is from both perspectives, because men & women interpret attraction in a different ways. Well for me, don't be surprised then if you get Friend-Zoned... I'm not bothering considering a guy romantically unless he mans up and asks me out. I'm not about dating passive wimps afraid of rejection and not willing to make some effort. The point is not that you have to ask out any woman you consider -- but until you do, I wouldn't consider you as potential dating/boyfriend material. Just another guy friend I hang out with.
BUENG1 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) "Hanging out" is what causes confusion in the first place. Just as an example, pretty much all the threads on here that are asking if he's interested/what are we/is he playing me/can I bring this up are started because the guy is just "hanging out" with the girl. Anytime one of my girl friends has a question or an issue or confusion with a guy, it's because he just wants to "hang out" with her. "Hanging out" is what FWBs or **** buddies do. Possibly, "hanging out" is also what high school and college kids do. Thumbs down. I'm chalking this article up under stupid advice men are getting. Well since this is advice is for men, so even though it does not necessarily benefit the woman it often does benefit the man to follow this advice. It would be nice if the same actions benefited both parties but thats not the way it is. The only differences between dating and "hanging out" benefit the woman in general, in general the man is supposed to all the work in the early stages. It is beneficial for the man to just skip this step and just gain information about the women from hanging out. Edited January 28, 2010 by BUENG1
stace79 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Well since this is advice is for men, so even though it does not necessarily benefit the woman it often does benefit the man to follow this advice. It would be nice if the same actions benefited both parties but thats not the way it is. The only differences between dating and "hanging out" benefit the woman in general, in general the man is supposed to all the work in the early stages. It is beneficial for the man to just skip this step and just gain information about the women from hanging out. Anything worth having is worth working hard for. Also see my note above regarding getting "friend-zoned"...
Jesper Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) Well since this is advice is for men, so even though it does not necessarily benefit the woman it often does benefit the man to follow this advice. It would be nice if the same actions benefited both parties but thats not the way it is. The only differences between dating and "hanging out" benefit the woman in general, in general the man is supposed to all the work in the early stages. It is beneficial for the man to just skip this step and just gain information about the women from hanging out. To be honest, I think the point is moot, since most "first dates" these days consist of coffee or drinks. Men aren't really spending a lot of time or money "getting to know" (ie dating) women before deciding if they want to pursue things with one in particular. I think whoever wrote the article is trying to be innovative or a PUA or something and really ended up writing something completely banal, redundant and irrelevant. Edit: This is the definition of a date: a social appointment, engagement, or occasion arranged beforehand with another person: to go out on a date on Saturday night. Edited January 28, 2010 by Jesper
BUENG1 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) Anything worth having is worth working hard for. Also see my note above regarding getting "friend-zoned"... Well this is of course this is from my experience(mostly in undergrad). I think you are just as likely to get friendzoned if you are dating then if you just try to skip that part. If the women is attracted to you, then you ussually won't end up in the friend zone. Yes some good things are worth working hard for, but everything that you have to work hard for isn't good, and everything that is good, you don't necessarily have to work hard for. And there is no reason to work hard for something you don't have too. Dating is a means to end(a relationship, marriage etc). Most of the people who say dating is fun in and of itself are women. Edited January 28, 2010 by BUENG1
meerkat stew Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I see both sides, and have been doing lots of thinking about this in anticipation of Spring and getting a new GF, so will weigh in with what I've been thinking. Dating is indeed outmoded if it is thought of as a process of getting to know another person during alone time. The reason it exists is that it was not acceptable behavior for men and women to spend time alone unsupervised in days past. The "date" allowed interaction and some supervision by family. Everyone knew where everyone was (for the most part). The point is that dating was originally a supervision method enforced by families. "If you want to spend time with my daughter, you will do so in accordance with certain rules." This rationale still exists today for some teenagers, depending on the mores of the family, but after leaving home, not so much. So viewed as above, dating is archaic. Adults are used to conducting their social lives in an unsupervised, unstructured fashion as they please these days. Why add a layer of structure onto this? The answer is that there are still some good reasons for dating today. People are busier now than ever. People work long hours. They want to get the maximum out of their social time. Hanging out on a couch may be ok for very young people or people with no financial means, but after a certain amount of hanging out in life, people want to get more out of their social time as they do all free time, and this requires planning. Killer fun 3 day weekend trips don't come to pass when one always takes a "let's hang out" attitude. After a point in life, social time becomes too important to waste "hanging out" all the time. Much of the most fun stuff in life requires some planning. You don't get tickets to the show that will sell out in an hour by "hanging out" and waiting for the tickets to fall in your lap. OK enough redundancy for one paragraph There is another good reason to date, because it increases control over social interactions. I enjoy having the structure in place. I know what my obligations are, what she expects, and what I expect. I know when it begins and when it ends. I have more control of a dating process than a hanging out half-ass plan, as does she. There are enough surprises and challenges in early meeting without adding the uncertainties of a fly by the seat of the pants attitude. Having the structure in place actually simplifies things and doesn't leave any party wondering in limbo about what X means, or what Y means, and more structure would actually get rid of many of the angsty confused threads posters make here about their confusion with the opposite sex. If he asked for a date, he likes you, if she said yes, she likes you. It's not a cure-all or foolproof, but cuts lots of confusion right out of the picture that can still exist in a "hanging out" scenario. People take more time looking good for a date, getting psyched up, anticipate more. I've had sex that just happens hanging out, and sex that starts long before the date takes place with flirtation, planning and anticipation of a date on both ends, and will take the latter every time. It's that much better. IME, women will sleep with duds, do it constantly as media has convinced us all that we are missing out if we aren't constantly humping each other. Women gravitate in a more passionate, enduring way, though, to men who are in control of their appearance, their lives and their plans for the future. A planned, fun date sends all kinds of good signals to a healthy woman, provided it's not a "phoned in" cliche dinner and movie (that's fine every now and then though, as is hanging on the couch). Once you get good at it, it is a strong attraction tool, and you will almost never have to wonder if she wants to see you again when your first date game is at its peak. And the final point. Men don't have to date to get sex today. If plain ole sex is all you are looking for, no need to date at all, it may even be counterproductive, as a certain large subsection of the female population actually perceives a man asking out on a date as weak as opposed to the man who can pick her up without the date when deciding who to have sex with. If on the other hand, you want a GF or marriage in time, dating is the way to signal a woman that you are a suitor, rather than a boy trying to get laid. They know the deal with us, and the smart women may have flings, but they don't take "hang out dudes" seriously as mate potential generally if they have more serious options with men who are in the driver's seat of their lives. If I were in high school or college again, I would put much more emphasis on hanging out as opposed to formal dates because dates build needless pressure which can kill attraction, spontaneity wins over structure almost every time in youth. Also, "dating" for high school and college aged men is a deck stacked against them. The playing field was more even when men could expect that the woman wasn't socializing outside dating, outside her family's supervision. Young people don't seem to appreciate any structure at all, they don't have to as they have the illusion that there's all the time in the world. After college though, I would date more and "hang out" less. I missed some good opportunities in my 20s and 30s by hanging out more than dating. In my 40s, I don't have time or desire to "hang out" until a relationship is in place. So the answer for any given person as to whether to date or not may be age and goal dependent.
stace79 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I see both sides, and have been doing lots of thinking about this in anticipation of Spring and getting a new GF, so will weigh in with what I've been thinking. Dating is indeed outmoded if it is thought of as a process of getting to know another person during alone time. The reason it exists is that it was not acceptable behavior for men and women to spend time alone unsupervised in days past. The "date" allowed interaction and some supervision by family. Everyone knew where everyone was (for the most part). The point is that dating was originally a supervision method enforced by families. "If you want to spend time with my daughter, you will do so in accordance with certain rules." This rationale still exists today for some teenagers, depending on the mores of the family, but after leaving home, not so much. So viewed as above, dating is archaic. Adults are used to conducting their social lives in an unsupervised, unstructured fashion as they please these days. Why add a layer of structure onto this? The answer is that there are still some good reasons for dating today. People are busier now than ever. People work long hours. They want to get the maximum out of their social time. Hanging out on a couch may be ok for very young people or people with no financial means, but after a certain amount of hanging out in life, people want to get more out of their social time as they do all free time, and this requires planning. Killer fun 3 day weekend trips don't come to pass when one always takes a "let's hang out" attitude. After a point in life, social time becomes too important to waste "hanging out" all the time. Much of the most fun stuff in life requires some planning. You don't get tickets to the show that will sell out in an hour by "hanging out" and waiting for the tickets to fall in your lap. OK enough redundancy for one paragraph There is another good reason to date, because it increases control over social interactions. I enjoy having the structure in place. I know what my obligations are, what she expects, and what I expect. I know when it begins and when it ends. I have more control of a dating process than a hanging out half-ass plan, as does she. There are enough surprises and challenges in early meeting without adding the uncertainties of a fly by the seat of the pants attitude. Having the structure in place actually simplifies things and doesn't leave any party wondering in limbo about what X means, or what Y means, and more structure would actually get rid of many of the angsty confused threads posters make here about their confusion with the opposite sex. If he asked for a date, he likes you, if she said yes, she likes you. It's not a cure-all or foolproof, but cuts lots of confusion right out of the picture that can still exist in a "hanging out" scenario. People take more time looking good for a date, getting psyched up, anticipate more. I've had sex that just happens hanging out, and sex that starts long before the date takes place with flirtation, planning and anticipation of a date on both ends, and will take the latter every time. It's that much better. IME, women will sleep with duds, do it constantly as media has convinced us all that we are missing out if we aren't constantly humping each other. Women gravitate in a more passionate, enduring way, though, to men who are in control of their appearance, their lives and their plans for the future. A planned, fun date sends all kinds of good signals to a healthy woman, provided it's not a "phoned in" cliche dinner and movie (that's fine every now and then though, as is hanging on the couch). Once you get good at it, it is a strong attraction tool, and you will almost never have to wonder if she wants to see you again when your first date game is at its peak. And the final point. Men don't have to date to get sex today. If plain ole sex is all you are looking for, no need to date at all, it may even be counterproductive, as a certain large subsection of the female population actually perceives a man asking out on a date as weak as opposed to the man who can pick her up without the date when deciding who to have sex with. If on the other hand, you want a GF or marriage in time, dating is the way to signal a woman that you are a suitor, rather than a boy trying to get laid. They know the deal with us, and the smart women may have flings, but they don't take "hang out dudes" seriously as mate potential generally if they have more serious options with men who are in the driver's seat of their lives. If I were in high school or college again, I would put much more emphasis on hanging out as opposed to formal dates because dates build needless pressure which can kill attraction, spontaneity wins over structure almost every time in youth. Also, "dating" for high school and college aged men is a deck stacked against them. The playing field was more even when men could expect that the woman wasn't socializing outside dating, outside her family's supervision. Young people don't seem to appreciate any structure at all, they don't have to as they have the illusion that there's all the time in the world. After college though, I would date more and "hang out" less. I missed some good opportunities in my 20s and 30s by hanging out more than dating. In my 40s, I don't have time or desire to "hang out" until a relationship is in place. So the answer for any given person as to whether to date or not may be age and goal dependent. Great post. Maybe that's why I have no tolerance for the ambivalence of these guys wanting to "just hang out"... I'm past that stage. lol
Johnny M Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 The guy's advice essentially boils down to this: instead of taking her out for dinner and a movie, take her out for drinks. Did he really have to write an article just to say that?
Johnny M Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 AMEN to all of this reply. You are absolutely correct. If a girl is possibly worth being in a relationship with, then she's worth the effort to get to know her a little bit by manning up and asking her on a DATE. It doesn't have to be to Emeril's and cost an arm/leg. I'm all for a casual happy hour or dinner or even just a walk in the park. But make clear it's a DATE you're after, and not just another friend or FWB. What's difference between going for a walk in the park to 'hang out' and going for a walk in the park on a date? Is it just that the expression 'hang out' scares the crap out of women?
stevejohnson1976 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 It seems like it is...but its kinda like playing the lottery. you have to buy a few tickets before you hit the winner!
stace79 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 What's difference between going for a walk in the park to 'hang out' and going for a walk in the park on a date? Is it just that the expression 'hang out' scares the crap out of women? It's too ambiguous. I'm over the misread signals between males/females. Just come out with what you want. Either you want to hang out and be friends, or you want to ask me out and explore something romantically.
Woggle Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 It very much is. If a woman is against a cheap date then consider it a red flag.
Author Itzo Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 Well for me, don't be surprised then if you get Friend-Zoned... I'm not bothering considering a guy romantically unless he mans up and asks me out. I'm not about dating passive wimps afraid of rejection and not willing to make some effort. The point is not that you have to ask out any woman you consider -- but until you do, I wouldn't consider you as potential dating/boyfriend material. Just another guy friend I hang out with. Wow, okey ... tell me your interpretation, what do you understand by "hanging out" ?
Author Itzo Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 Anything worth having is worth working hard for. Also see my note above regarding getting "friend-zoned"... Work SMARTER, not harder.
stace79 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Wow, okey ... tell me your interpretation, what do you understand by "hanging out" ? That's just it -- there's no real definition. It could be a guy that I click with who just wants to be my friend. It could be a dirtbag wanting to hang out and try and get in my pants. Or it could be a guy who's interested in me but too afraid to speak up. Or a guy who's interested in me who's to cheap to take me out for a drink. I'm sure there's other alternative definitions, too!
Author Itzo Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 Dating is a means to end(a relationship, marriage etc). Most of the people who say dating is fun in and of itself are women. I agree, dating is overrated !
meerkat stew Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 What's difference between going for a walk in the park to 'hang out' and going for a walk in the park on a date? Is it just that the expression 'hang out' scares the crap out of women? Having a formal date is actually advantageous to the guy moreso than the woman these days. IME, loose, unstructured plans end up screwing the man over more often than the woman. Women's GFs and other guys are notorious for arm-twisting to get a woman to change tentative plans in favor of them, it's a female friendship power and control thing, and a wormy, wussy man's favorite CBing tactic. They won't do this as much if she says she has a date. Until they are seriously attracted, people are prone to flake and blow off "hangout" plans at the drop of a hat. So many threads here evidence this. "But... but... we had plans to "hang out" today and I can't reach her now!"
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