What happened to your marriage?

[Lauriebell82]

I know there are a lot of unhappy marriages and/or divorced individuals on these boards.

 

A few of my friends who got married several years ago are starting to get divorced. They have told me that their relationship "changed" after marriage.

 

So I'm just wondering what exactly goes wrong that leads a couple to divorce after having been very happy only a few years earlier. Did you see signs prior to marriage?

[Ronni_W]

I think a lot of times people, individually and as a couple, just don't realize that they need to prioritize the marital relationship as a separate 'entity' and goal unto itself. They put kids, career, mortgage and car payments AHEAD of keeping the love and passion alive.

 

I'd put 'love and passion' first...but can also make a case for giving it equal status. As long as it is not the thing that gets left "for later", I mean, because "later", for the primary relationship, usually ends up being "too late", in my experience and observation.

 

There's a book you may be interested in. 'Marriage Shock: The Transformation of Women into Wives' by Dalma Heyn. Contains some very interesting insights.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of a similar-themed book that speaks to men's roles, and "conversion" from 'man into husband'.

[Lauriebell82]

I think a lot of times people, individually and as a couple, just don't realize that they need to prioritize the marital relationship as a separate 'entity' and goal unto itself. They put kids, career, mortgage and car payments AHEAD of keeping the love and passion alive.

 

I'd put 'love and passion' first...but can also make a case for giving it equal status. As long as it is not the thing that gets left "for later", I mean, because "later", for the primary relationship, usually ends up being "too late", in my experience and observation.

 

There's a book you may be interested in. 'Marriage Shock: The Transformation of Women into Wives' by Dalma Heyn. Contains some very interesting insights.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of a similar-themed book that speaks to men's roles, and "conversion" from 'man into husband'.

 

Thanks, I might look into that book!

 

I think you may be right about the fact that couples put their relationship on the backburner to other life issues. I know that for me, my fiance and I always try to work out any issues that come up in our relationship. We are good problem solvers.

 

I have just been wondering about what happens to happy couples that their feelings take such a harsh turn for the worse. One of my friends was VERY happily married for many years prior to her recent divorce. She said that her ex was horrible with money and spent everything they had and more. They were together for 2 years and lived together for 1 prior to marriage so I just fail to understand how she didn't see that sooner...

[Ronni_W]

I know that for me, my fiance and I always try to work out any issues that come up in our relationship. We are good problem solvers.

That was kind of part of my response -- the unwritten part

 

I think. Maybe to put the focus on continuously creating new happy-positive-fun experiences. Have "date nights" carved in stone, hell or high water. Keep adding spice in the bedroom. Be silly with each other. Nurture growth and development, individually and as a couple.

 

If the relationship becomes "problem-focused" and only gets attention when there is an issue...I'm starting to think that ends up being just another bomb waiting to blow-up. And it's doesn't at all focus on helping each person feel loved, special, appreciated, admired, respected, cherished, et al.

 

They were together for 2 years and lived together for 1 prior to marriage so I just fail to understand how she didn't see that sooner...

I know exactly what you mean -- and have first-hand experience of that happening. Even in my own case, making total sense of it is hard work. Kind of mostly like, "WTF happened???"

 

With the book, I got to work backwards, so to speak, and there were definitely some, "Oh, THAT'S what happened!" moments. It still leaves me wondering, though, if it can really be avoided...even if one gets the "heads up" before marriage/living together. (From the book or whatever source, I mean.)

 

I don't know.

[Ariadne]

So I'm just wondering what exactly goes wrong that leads a couple to divorce after having been very happy only a few years earlier. Did you see signs prior to marriage?

 

In my case, I didn´t love them.

 

I convinced myself that I did though. I talked myself into it and that everything was going to be ok.

 

But you can´t make love happen where there isn´t any. In my case, going on date nights would have made my skin crawl.

 

The signs where a knowing deep down that it wasn´t going to work.

 

You just know it, but you keep denying it.

 

The reason it changes when you get married, is because you feel stuck in a bad situation forever and you just can´t bare the lie.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

I married very young and immature and inexperienced in life and relationships and the world in general. I would say, from my perspective, that my wife was the same.

 

Before marriage the only thing I noticed was the control on both sides of the relationship. She wanted to have me wear a wedding band once we were engaged (she asked me to marry her first, with her class ring, and then bought me a wedding band). She wanted me to not have any significant relationships with other women (not that unusual I suppose, as I didn't want her to have strong male relationships). I was controlling in my own ways too.

 

Even today we have control issues and other negative situations.

 

We have honestly had a very up and down relationship throughout...

 

Last year around Valentine’s Day she said to me that 'she loves me, but is not in love with me' (hence the screen name). This after I went all out to plan a romantic night with a hotel, 69 Hershey’s kisses each labeled with a 'reason I love her,' etc, etc. I thought it might be over. I put my tail in high gear, and we both came to realize that we were taking each other for granted, among other things. In the end, just a few weeks later, she finally said that she regretted saying the "she's not in love with me line," and the feeling was just a temporary downturn for her.

 

I can honestly say that, 17 years after we met, I have no MAJOR regrets. Things are not peachy by any means. But when things get tough, I simply remind myself that I have so much to work hard for. So much to be thankful for: 5 wonderful kids who are the product of our love, a wife who adores me, and is the love of my life.

 

I likely put too much of my self-worth in my relationship with my wife and kids. When things are strained, I am noticeably saddened. My coworkers and acquaintances ask me where my cheery personality and warm smile are.

 

I am a big believer (at least when it comes to marriage) in working and working and working at it until you get it right. The more that the relationship is worth having; often the harder it can be to maintain. With time those things ebb and they flow, yet things eventually have a way of working out in the end.

 

Reminds me of the old lady who had been married 50+ years, who responded to Oprah, when asked to tell all of America what the secret is to a long, healthy marriage, "well, we never fell out of love with each other......... at the same time!"

[giotto]

Personally, I got to know my wife's many issues very soon after we met, but when you are young and in love you tend to disregard these signs... we were fine until the birth of the second child... I don't know what changed... I still don't know now! I suppose when children enter the frame, they change everything... my wife got a bit obsessed with them and still is... they are everything to her. Instead of concentrating on our relationship, it was put on the back burner, although I tried very hard... We drifted apart... and I have no problem in saying that it was her fault...

[wheelwright]

Sorry wrong thread!

Edited January 28, 2010 by wheelwright
Wrong thread!

[JamesM]

In many cases, it comes down to both (or one) partners not giving the marriage priority once familiarity sets in.

 

Men have accomplished the goal of marriage and cross it off their "To Do" list. If they would keep it always on that list, then they would see the need to keep working at their marriage. Instead they move on to career goals.

 

Women also have accomplished marriage for the purpose of beginning a family. They assume that the husband will have as much joy with children as they do. They assume that the men no longer need their wives as much.

 

Neither communicate and then lose contact with each other.

 

Generally speaking, it is simply that while dating, people are on their best behavior (and even while living together while still unmarried to a degree because one person can still leave quite easily). Once marriage happens, it does take work to remember that "happily ever after" doesn't just happen.

 

Never assume that "we will never divorce" and never assume that " he (she) will never be like that." Always assume that what brought you together and what will keep you together is more than simply feelings. Commitment needs to happen when the feelings disappear.

 

Just MO.

[norajane]

I have just been wondering about what happens to happy couples that their feelings take such a harsh turn for the worse. One of my friends was VERY happily married for many years prior to her recent divorce. She said that her ex was horrible with money and spent everything they had and more. They were together for 2 years and lived together for 1 prior to marriage so I just fail to understand how she didn't see that sooner...

 

I'm sure she did see it sooner, but she probably accepted it because she was in love. She may not have realized how much it would affect their lives. Or she may have thought he would change. Also, he probably spent some of that money on HER and she liked that - she probably felt it was a sign of how much he cared about her. And, at that time, it wasn't HER money and her credit rating and her dreams of saving up for a house or whatever.

 

Once they were married, it became HER problem because it was THEIR money. And, like Chinese water torture, a few drops of water or a few clashes about money aren't painful, but when it's constant and relentless, it feels like a hole being drilled into your head. She could only take it for a while before she realized she couldn't anymore and they couldn't resolve the issue because neither of them would change and they couldn't find a way to compromise. It became something she hated about him, and she lost respect for him. And the fights probably became constant and the starting point for other battles.

 

YOU have issues with your fiance that you recognize right now, but you are in love so you believe you can work it out. Your fiance is a control freak and you are a Messy Marvin and inclined to react emotionally and with insecurity. Sure, you can work these things out together because you want to because you're in love. But after years of him having to have things just so, and after years of you dragging your feet on cleaning anything and constantly having to reassure you, it becomes harder to feel good about being together.

 

Add any other outside pressures and the distance starts growing between you. It's hard to bring the good feelings back at that point. You have to be careful to not let it get to the point of no return. Every marriage is vulnerable - you have to be vigilant so when you start treating each other like adversaries instead of like a team, you do something about it instead of letting it get worse.

[giotto]

I was shocked when things started going wrong... I never got into marriage with a fixed target or even a plan. We loved each other and we got married... that was enough for me. I suppose I was naïve... work at the marriage? Never understood that. If we loved each other, it shouldn't be necessary. Until about a year ago, after 23 years together, I thought that the only little problem in our marriage was our sex life... a bit infrequent... I loved my wife. When things escalated, I discovered many aspects of our marriage that I didn't know even existed... I didn't know she thought what she thought... I discovered a different person. So, what happened, really? I wish I knew for certain... lol

[Star Gazer]

I'm sure she did see it sooner, but she probably accepted it because she was in love. She may not have realized how much it would affect their lives. Or she may have thought he would change. Also, he probably spent some of that money on HER and she liked that - she probably felt it was a sign of how much he cared about her. And, at that time, it wasn't HER money and her credit rating and her dreams of saving up for a house or whatever.

 

Once they were married, it became HER problem because it was THEIR money. And, like Chinese water torture, a few drops of water or a few clashes about money aren't painful, but when it's constant and relentless, it feels like a hole being drilled into your head. She could only take it for a while before she realized she couldn't anymore and they couldn't resolve the issue because neither of them would change and they couldn't find a way to compromise. It became something she hated about him, and she lost respect for him. And the fights probably became constant and the starting point for other battles.

 

YOU have issues with your fiance that you recognize right now, but you are in love so you believe you can work it out. Your fiance is a control freak and you are a Messy Marvin and inclined to react emotionally and with insecurity. Sure, you can work these things out together because you want to because you're in love. But after years of him having to have things just so, and after years of you dragging your feet on cleaning anything and constantly having to reassure you, it becomes harder to feel good about being together.

 

Add any other outside pressures and the distance starts growing between you. It's hard to bring the good feelings back at that point. You have to be careful to not let it get to the point of no return. Every marriage is vulnerable - you have to be vigilant so when you start treating each other like adversaries instead of like a team, you do something about it instead of letting it get worse.

 

This is all so very true, NJ.

 

LB, you two have many issues that you're dismissing because you're in love with one another (that go beyond cleaning), and other outside pressures (like unemployment, which might happen again someday) and future child rearing responsbilities may drive you apart.

 

Like NJ said, be careful not to let it get to the point of no return.

[Buttnutter100]

I married very young and immature and inexperienced in life and relationships and the world in general. I would say, from my perspective, that my wife was the same.

 

Before marriage the only thing I noticed was the control on both sides of the relationship. She wanted to have me wear a wedding band once we were engaged (she asked me to marry her first, with her class ring, and then bought me a wedding band). She wanted me to not have any significant relationships with other women (not that unusual I suppose, as I didn't want her to have strong male relationships). I was controlling in my own ways too.

 

Even today we have control issues and other negative situations.

 

We have honestly had a very up and down relationship throughout...

 

Last year around Valentine’s Day she said to me that 'she loves me, but is not in love with me' (hence the screen name). This after I went all out to plan a romantic night with a hotel, 69 Hershey’s kisses each labeled with a 'reason I love her,' etc, etc. I thought it might be over. I put my tail in high gear, and we both came to realize that we were taking each other for granted, among other things. In the end, just a few weeks later, she finally said that she regretted saying the "she's not in love with me line," and the feeling was just a temporary downturn for her.

 

I can honestly say that, 17 years after we met, I have no MAJOR regrets. Things are not peachy by any means. But when things get tough, I simply remind myself that I have so much to work hard for. So much to be thankful for: 5 wonderful kids who are the product of our love, a wife who adores me, and is the love of my life.

 

I likely put too much of my self-worth in my relationship with my wife and kids. When things are strained, I am noticeably saddened. My coworkers and acquaintances ask me where my cheery personality and warm smile are.

 

I am a big believer (at least when it comes to marriage) in working and working and working at it until you get it right. The more that the relationship is worth having; often the harder it can be to maintain. With time those things ebb and they flow, yet things eventually have a way of working out in the end.

 

Reminds me of the old lady who had been married 50+ years, who responded to Oprah, when asked to tell all of America what the secret is to a long, healthy marriage, "well, we never fell out of love with each other......... at the same time!"

 

 

Nice post. But see the bolded quote. "ILYBINILWY" generally means she's having an affair. Sorry bro.

 

Also on Valentine's Day try buying your wife sexy lingerie and screwing the hell out of her. Better than hershey's kisses.

[Lauriebell82]

LB, you two have many issues that you're dismissing because you're in love with one another (that go beyond cleaning), and other outside pressures (like unemployment, which might happen again someday) and future child rearing responsbilities may drive you apart.

 

Like NJ said, be careful not to let it get to the point of no return.

 

This is very untrue. If we dismissed issues we would have broken up by now because it would have gotten to the point of no return.

 

It's true he's clean and I'm messy. That's an issue a lot of couples have. I'm not niave enough to realize that if not taken care of our relationship could be doomed. But because we have a combination of love and committment we are trying to reach a compromise and work through it until we find a solution that works for both of us. You admitted yourself that you and your boyfriend fight about cleaning to the point where you need a housekeeper. It's not an uncommon thing and IMO something that can be worked out.

 

BUT, I understand what you are saying. We've gotten through the unemployment as hard as it has been. AND we are trying to plan a wedding! Imagine if that happened to you? Seriously.

 

Anyway, what I'm gathering from everyone's post is that they acknowledged serious issues prior to marriage but chose to ignore them and thought love would get them through. I know that's a common problem and it probably is why a lot of marriages end in divorce. People just don't make their relationship a priority!

Edited January 29, 2010 by Lauriebell82

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Nice post. But see the bolded quote. "ILYBINILWY" generally means she's having an affair. Sorry bro.

 

Also on Valentine's Day try buying your wife sexy lingerie and screwing the hell out of her. Better than hershey's kisses.

 

LOL... I did take her to a hotel that night with the intention of screwing the hell out of her... I thought it extra romantic to take the time to individually label each of the 69 hershey's kisses with reasons I love her! We ended up having sex, and having an OK night, but that ILYBNILWY line (it was more complicated than just that) hit me like a brick...

 

But anyways I feel very highly confident that she is not and has not had an affair. The truth of the matter is it is impossible to know 100%; but I am as close as one can get to 100%

[Lauriebell82]

LOL... I did take her to a hotel that night with the intention of screwing the hell out of her... I thought it extra romantic to take the time to individually label each of the 69 hershey's kisses with reasons I love her! We ended up having sex, and having an OK night, but that ILYBNILWY line (it was more complicated than just that) hit me like a brick...

 

But anyways I feel very highly confident that she is not and has not had an affair. The truth of the matter is it is impossible to know 100%; but I am as close as one can get to 100%

 

Have you asked her WHY she feels that she is not in love with you anymore? Do you know what the actual problem is? I suggest you find out!

[JamesM]

Nice post. But see the bolded quote. "ILYBINILWY" generally means she's having an affair. Sorry bro.

 

Actually...no. It can be the sign of a partner who is willing to communicate her true feelings as she has them. It is a cry for help. It is her saying that she doesn't have the feelings and by telling him, she is saying that she would like to have them back.

 

Also on Valentine's Day try buying your wife sexy lingerie and screwing the hell out of her. Better than hershey's kisses.

 

Sex is the answer to everything.

 

No, it would be better to show incredible love for her as a person and show her how special she is beyond what her physical body can provide.

 

Sex may then be the result as her expression of her appreciation and love for you.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Anyway, what I'm gathering from everyone's post is that they acknowledged serious issues prior to marriage but chose to ignore them and thought love would get them through. I know that's a common problem and it probably is why a lot of marriages end in divorce. People just don't make their relationship a priority!

 

One would guess that the above info is only common sense...

 

I would guess that even those who didn't see any SERIOUS issues prior to marriage could easily end up divorced. People change; especially over time. But that's OK. For me there is only a small list of "unforgivables," or "deal breakers," per se. And even before walking away from the family that's been created if she or I were to cheat, I would think we would owe it to our family to try and work it out. Try, try 7 try again.

 

I think, as a culture, we are too self centered, too proud (as individuals, instead of as households), and too quick to judge... we think nothing of dumping one set of problems and moving on to another.

 

I appreciate the thinking of "earning the right," to move on from a failing marriage. Once all of the issues have been ironed out (at least as best as they can), if at that point there is no more true desire and love to be with one another, then perhaps it is time to move on...

[JamesM]

Having no problems prior to marriage is not necessarily all that good. Then the couple has no experience dealing with conflicts.

 

It is not that a couple should not have problems before marriage, but it is what kind of problems.

 

And when they have problems, how do they resolve them.

 

As one who has been married for awhile, I can say looking back, the problems that were considered major at the beginning of our marriage are now not considered a problem. While a couple can never resolve all problems and "live happily ever after," they key is in how they solve the problems and the way they either move on or "wallow" in the problem.

 

Marriage is work...and you had better have someone with whom you enjoy working.

[Buttnutter100]

Actually...no. It can be the sign of a partner who is willing to communicate her true feelings as she has them. It is a cry for help. It is her saying that she doesn't have the feelings and by telling him, she is saying that she would like to have them back.

 

 

 

Sex is the answer to everything.

 

No, it would be better to show incredible love for her as a person and show her how special she is beyond what her physical body can provide.

 

Sex may then be the result as her expression of her appreciation and love for you.

 

"I love you but I'm not in love with you" is sort of a standard "catch phrase" that many cheaters use. It's uncanny actually.

 

This doesn't necessary mean a physical affair is going on. It could simply be the beginnings of an emotional affair. (I.e. phone calls, e-mails, texts, inappropriate lunches with someone at work, etc.) But this particular phrase is so significant that the possibility of incipient infidelity cannot be disregarded.

 

As far as the sex thing goes, I think most women groove on the notion that their man craves the physical connection and feel hurt if they think otherwise. I happen to personally feel that physical love with my wife represents our love together in its most passionate, loving, and authentic form.

 

The hershey's kisses and flowers are cool too though.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

This doesn't necessary mean a physical affair is going on. It could simply be the beginnings of an emotional affair. (I.e. phone calls, e-mails, texts, inappropriate lunches with someone at work, etc.) But this particular phrase is so significant that the possibility of incipient infidelity cannot be disregarded.

 

As far as the sex thing goes, I think most women groove on the notion that their man craves the physical connection and feel hurt if they think otherwise. I happen to personally feel that physical love with my wife represents our love together in its most passionate, loving, and authentic form.

 

These paragraphs are EXTREMELY parallel to how I feel.

 

The ilybinilwy phrase (or it's derivatives) are an extremely relevant and eye opening phrase, and though I'm confident it did not refer to physical infidelity in my case, I have a some mild concerns about her desire to be with someone else at that moment... truth be told I have had those moments too. We have been together 17 years and have had our share of ups and downs. Proudly, to this day, remains my only physical sexual partner. I believe that I am her only sexual partner to this day also (for us this is seemingly SACRED bond).

 

As for the second paragraph, from my point of view, most men who have a healthy sexual relationship with their wife would agree. Sexual intimacy provides the epitome of my feelings for her more often than I would care to admit!

Edited January 29, 2010 by She's_NotInLove_w/Me

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Have you asked her WHY she feels that she is not in love with you anymore? Do you know what the actual problem is? I suggest you find out!

 

A year ago, when this had all transpired, she was saying that the attraction was fading. The intimacy was less relevant, she was loving me like a friend, a close (non sexual) partner...

 

I am glad to say that has (for the most part) changed!

 

I still remain guarded and a little insecure, but oddly enough, as soon as I get over my insecurity and put my best effort forward, things (more often then not) work out just fine. In the past, I have had to deal with her insecurity wayyyyy too much, so I have a hard time voicing my concerns to her, for the fear of sounding needy (like she has been). The positive effect this has that on the rare occasion that I am concerned enough to talk about it, she (more often than not) goes out of her way to give me everything I need (and more) to feel safe and loved again.

 

It never ceases to amaze me - the up and down - the push and pull - the give and take - the climb and fall.

 

Several recent pop song lyrics really hit home for us; two that come to mind are Pink's "please don't leave me" and John Mayer's "heartbreak warfare." Both songs have lyrics that make me quite emotional, but what brought them to mind right now was the concept of needing to push someone so far to see how much they love you; it's certainly not healthy; but sometimes it's us...

Edited January 29, 2010 by She's_NotInLove_w/Me

[carhill]

Did you see signs prior to marriage?

 

Yes, primarily differences of emotional setpoints and conflict resolution styles. Even with a whole bunch of other compatibilities, it was the essential incompatibilities in these areas which finally broke the M apart. I think we both put more emphasis on shared values and complimentary living styles prior to getting married. There were conflicts prior to M, so it's not like the differences were any surprise. We both were aware, or at least I was. Since I've read your threads on different 'cleanliness' styles, I can tell you, looking back, those differences (yes, we had them too) were so inconsequential in scope, even though, at the time, they may have appeared more important. The real dynamic was how we handled those differences and that was the essence of our incompatibilities.

 

Personally, I think if we had received PMC or MC early-on, things would have turned out much healthier, either as a stronger M, not getting married or getting a D before a lot of damage was done on both sides. Hope that helps

[threebyfate]

People under 25 years old aren't even well formed individuals yet, so it's no surprise when they end up as a polarized couple, since there's still a lot of changing that has to happen.

 

As for my first marriage, many of you already know the story. We weren't a young couple when we got married but he had undiagnosed NPD and ended up being a serial cheater. Thanks to LS, I learned that NPD existed and subsequently "convinced" him that he needed therapy, which he continues to get, to this day.

 

I to this day, sincerely believe that he's got so many incredibly positive traits. But his negatives swamp the rest and infidelity is a dealbreaker for me, with no exceptions.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Actually...no. It can be the sign of a partner who is willing to communicate her true feelings as she has them. It is a cry for help. It is her saying that she doesn't have the feelings and by telling him, she is saying that she would like to have them back.

 

This is pretty much how we felt.

 

..it would be better to show incredible love for her as a person and show her how special she is beyond what her physical body can provide.

Sex may then be the result as her expression of her appreciation and love for you.

 

This is exactly the difference between women and men. Simplisticly put, as a male I want to have sex (and sexual intimacy) to feel my wife loves me and feel love for my wife. As a female, my wife needs to feel truly loved BEFORE she can enjoy sex and give it freely and as frequently as I may desire.