CP has done this twice!

[bassman57]

Ok, I am new here and I am 51. I knew this woman 35 yrs ago. Was very close then, as was the case recently, with her family. She is 51

we got together last March, everything seemed to be going fine, many many things in common etc, She is a recovering alcoholic, as I am, but she has had no therapy to rewire her thinking. In short, I mentioned what my therapist what she calls a "trigger" which caused my ex to bolt. leaving a mirage of excuses. nothing made any sense.

In June 2009, she magically showed up to talk and was a basket case. I told her that she needed to get into counseling. She had an appt for july 8th.

We were spending alot of "friend" time together as I love to bass fish and she developed a passions for it too. To the point that she didn't care, rain nor shine, if we went. In fact it rained so hard one day, the auto bilde pump kicked on! She wanted to go every weekend and we did. In the meantime, we were almost as an item, but never anything more than a kiss or a hug.

I was practically part of her family. took her dad to dr appts. got along well with sisters & brother's-in-laws. I had been seeing my counselor right along and she had asked me in early Nov how things were going with the two of us. I told her that she went to see a counselor once and told me she wasn't comfortable as she was like talking to her 20 yr old daughter. My counselor told me that unless she was to commit to therapy, it was just a matter of time before this would happen again. In fact, my counselor told me something to bring up, a "trigger" to prove the point. I didn't want to do this, but She said "do you wanna find out now or much later down the road"

This was on Nov 13th. That saturday, as with every Saturday since mid Sept. She would spend the night. She had gotten to my place and wanted to "lie down" and asked me to join her. (hint hint!) She had planned this as she had put on a little lace outfit etc. and proceeded to seduce me.

Again, everything was picture perfect. That next day she had planned on having her kids over as well as my daughter & grandaughter for lasagna. I received a txt later in the day indicating that no one was coming as they went out the night before, but we were gonna do it that following Wednesday. She offered to fix me spaghetti if I wanted. I passed as I had to work later than usual. The following Monday, she , as with any other day, would txt me whenever she had a free minute. I was constantly in the loop about anything and everything. One of her txt's was telling me that we were invited to her sisters for Thanksgiving. This was on Nov. 16th. We had made plans that evening to have dinner with her dad. I met her at her dad's after she got out of work. We ate and shortly after, I decided to leave so she could have some father/daughter time as they are close.

She was watching a movie with him and had txt'd me about having headphone's on and how clear it was but how weird they looked if anyone was to stop over and see them! Anyway, I was home, pondering what my counselor had told me. Later on, When she got home. she had txt'd me telling me she was home. I asked her if I could call. I did. In that call I asked her as lightly as I could if we were on the same page, how eventually I wanted basically, a future together.

She said, "yeah, we've been taking things day by day, i don't know if that's what you wanna hear..." I told her I eventually, down the road, wanted to get a place together, maybe even marry.

She said she didn't really ever think about getting married again, but for the most part, yes, we were on the same page.

Everything seemed fine, she understood me and how I wanted to look towards the future.

That following wednesday, the 18th, we had the lasagna with our combined kids. she had just become a grandma too.

Everything was ok. she talked to her daughter, her son's g/f as well as my daughter about all of them hanging out in the near future and planning on teaching them how to bake etc.

long story short, that following Sunday, Nov. 22nd, we had plans, made by her daughter, to attend a dinner get together to celebrate her 20th b'day.

I picked up my girl, we went, it was to each pay their own, so I paid for our's and I also offered to pay for her son and his g/f since they had no money. My girl seemed somewhat distant, but I also know she was having cramps ( female thing) and they were bothering her. That next day, Monday, Nov 23rd, I didn't get so much as a txt from her. She is a barber, it was Thanksgiving week, so I knew she was busy. well, when it got to be 8pm and I hadn't heard from her, I called her. I had woke her up. She told me how she had gone to see the OBGYN for her cramps. Her dr. told her it was more mental than physical. I felt better, atleast I knew something.

The next day, Tuesday, I received a txt early afternoon from her. She had said how busy she was and apologized I hadn't heard from her earlier. no biggie.

I had to go to the mall anyway, so I dropped in, as I would from time to time, to run and get a coffee for her, suprise her etc. she seemed fine, had her ring on, came over and kissed me after she finished with the haircut she was doing. We went outside to have a smoke. I again told her how concerned I was not hearing from her at all the day before. She mentioned about she had made an appt to see a counselor and that her appt was for the following week. I left shortly thereafter as she had to go back inside. nothing out of the ordinary.

The following day, Wednesday, the 25th, Again, I heard nothing from her. Wednesdays were her day off. so, usually, before she would go do her shopping, laundry etc, we would either always txt or talk for a bit on the phone. I had been planning on going to her place later that evening to put together the bassinet we had bought. She had asked her son's g/f to bring the baby over that Sat. after Thanksgiving for a sleepover. at the same time, she had asked me to spend the night too as opposed to spening it at my place. So, during my travels that wednesday, I was near her place and I had passed her. she isn't too attentive, so I txtd her and told her "Hey, I just passed you!"

a short time later, she txt'd me back with this txt:

"if you get a chance, could you stop by please hon?..."

I turned around, got to her apt about 5 min. later. Waled in, She was doing small talk, poured me coffee and we sat down. I told her I was planning, as we had talked about on Sunday, to come over later to put the bassinet together.

She said she thought we should get together now. She needed to talk to me. Now, mind you, everything for the past 6 months was consistent, we had been back together since late August. All I was expecting was what was on her mind about the cramping and such.

She looked at me and said

"I'm not in love with you!" OUCH!!!!!

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Totally blown away, I reacted by throwing my coffee on her, slammed down the cup, told her to SAVE IT! That she was F*cked up and slammed the door and left! THE DAY BEFORE THANKS GIVING!!

I had been down this road before, asked her many times to spend the night, she told me that she wanted to be sure she was in love before that happened. IT HAD BEEN HAPPENING! So I was totally caught off guard.!

I have tried to contact her a couple of times and she just acts like a scared child. My daughter went to get my things, my ex put them outside and although my daughter knew she was home, she said she pretended she wasn't. They had txt'd and she knew my daughter was coming! WTF

Anyway, She has acted as if nothing ever happened, that I never existed ect, by what people see on FB.

I have been in counseling, maintaining NC for almost 2 months.

I am told by my counselor that at some point, she is likely to come around, just as she had before, acting as if nothing happened.

I am slowly healing, although at times, i feel like it just happened.

I only hope that one day I will have the opportunity to tell her that I dodn't deserve to be treated like this and exactly what I think.

[Serena2009]

Hey there bassman57,

 

I know how much it hurts being rejected by someone you hoped for a future with. And it sounds like you clearly communicated to her that's what you wanted, and it sounds like she was unclear in what she communicated back with some mixed signals. So, your relationship became physical in September, do I have that right?

 

Right now, I think the best thing for you to do is to maintain stict NC while you focus on sorting through your own emotions in order to become grounded. I know this is all very difficult but NC does wonders for healing. Really it does!! Plus, very likely the coffee incident has frightened her. So, step 1 is to go strict NC and get a grip on your own emotions so you can become centered and grounded. Everything else, including you wanting to tell her how you feel can wait. Sometimes it's helpful to write a letter stating exactly how you feel, but don't send it, instead, tear it up and get rid of it.

 

You WILL get through this and come out the other end stronger! There's light at the end of the tunnel and the pain that you're feeling, this too shall pass. For now, live in the moment. Hang in there!! It will get easier. Stay strong!

[bassman57]

I know that the coffee probably played a big part in things. I am not a violent/ angry person, by nature, My counselor, as well as others, including her dad, can understand how I was caught off guard, especially after receiving the txt I had moments before. Her dad told me that I had done the right thing by leaving. He had told her shortly after it all happened, to call the police, but, he also didn't know both sides of the story either.

He told me that she had called him earlier that day and told him how she was feeling. He said it made no sense cuz when her asked her why as well as a couple other questions, she really couldn't answer them to his satisfaction. it was " because that's how I feel"

It hurts so much that she can act as if we never existed. it's as if she has moved on.

I know it is not me. There are frequently reasons that people break up. There was no indication at all, except when I think and saw my counselor thereafter.

She kinda told me so I guess.

So now, I am working the no contact and it is not hard, as I know you cannot talk to anyone who doesn't wanna listen to what you have to say, whether it makes sense or not. I am reading " He's scared, She's scared" to gain an understanding why she is like this. To help me make sense why there could never be anything with her should she "drop out of the sky" at some point in the future just as she had last June.

Yes, We were together as of Late August, We had been intimate since Sept on thru a week prior to this. It just makes no sense other than this commitment thing.

I just do not need someone who, after telling me time and time again how they love you, treat you nas if they do and in pretty much a weeks time, do this.

[Serena2009]

I know that the coffee probably played a big part in things. I am not a violent/ angry person, by nature, My counselor, as well as others, including her dad, can understand how I was caught off guard, especially after receiving the txt I had moments before. Her dad told me that I had done the right thing by leaving. He had told her shortly after it all happened, to call the police, but, he also didn't know both sides of the story either.

 

OK, so everyone including you understands that the coffee thing was an unacceptable reaction to the breakup, but not the cause of the breakup. It's over and done with and I'm sure that you've learned from the experience that you can never react in this way again.

 

He told me that she had called him earlier that day and told him how she was feeling. He said it made no sense cuz when her asked her why as well as a couple other questions, she really couldn't answer them to his satisfaction. it was " because that's how I feel"

 

So her reason is an abstract feeling rather than something concrete that you can understand. I know how tough it is to understand and accept when the breakup is blamed on something abstract.

It hurts so much that she can act as if we never existed. it's as if she has moved on.

I know it is not me. There are frequently reasons that people break up. There was no indication at all, except when I think and saw my counselor thereafter.

She kinda told me so I guess."

 

I know how much it hurts to have loved someone and feel like you were meaningless in their lives. Believe me, she hasn't forgotten you and you're not meaningless, but she doesn't and may never have the capacity to love you in the same way that you love her. What you're really in love with is an illusion of her as a fully evolved emotionally healthy woman with the capacity to love you in the same way you love her. Unfortunately, your illusion is not really her.

So now, I am working the no contact and it is not hard, as I know you cannot talk to anyone who doesn't wanna listen to what you have to say, whether it makes sense or not. I am reading " He's scared, She's scared" to gain an understanding why she is like this. To help me make sense why there could never be anything with her should she "drop out of the sky" at some point in the future just as she had last June.

 

It's great that you understand the need to maintain strict NC. I have that book. Are you finding things that hits home with you and helps you make sense out of the situation? Let me know and direct me to the page #.

Yes, We were together as of Late August, We had been intimate since Sept on thru a week prior to this. It just makes no sense other than this commitment thing.

I just do not need someone who, after telling me time and time again how they love you, treat you nas if they do and in pretty much a weeks time, do this.

 

I know!! It's like all of the sudden BAM, the carpet is pulled right out from underneath you!! Just be thankful that it didn't go on even longer so as to make it even more painful! Keep reading. After a time you'll be able to make more sense out the situation if only for yourself. Hang in there! I know you're in pain but it will get easier and you will get through this, I promise. Stay strong.

[bassman57]

I know my reaction was wrong. I take and took full responsibility for that. As I have read on here,frequently these types return, as the anxiety level goes down and they start to miss you. The reason I reacted as I had was due to being caught totally off guard with this. My concern was her cramping. It was like everything fit perfectly. I now see though that she was limited in what she could/would give. I mean, yes, we spent time together, it varied week to week. It was like she was calling the shots. She loves her TV time, and got a DVR finally to record things. But she also seemed to leave within a couple hours after getting up the following day of the nights she spent here.

The email she sent me after the coffee incident was "if you had allowed me to finish..." but for the most part, were carbon copies of previous emails from our breakup in May of 2009. In fact, I sent her an email in response to her's which was her previous emails copied and pasted into one email. She responded with:

" I don't have to read these, I get your point."

She , as with before and the same now, always has a revelation "I LEARNED A MOST VALUABLE LESSON" always after the fact!

She had told me after the May incident, that she has NEVER been dumped, alwaqys either found a reason to leave but thought she was ready for a relationship. Before, same as now, "I realize I am not ready to have any kind of relationship with a man"

She said it's like she finds she is doing the same things over expecting different results.

I know Serena, that I am all over the map here, but I just wanna get through this and be in a place, should she ever realize what she had and screwed up again, that I am not so heartsick and weak to fall prey to this ever again with anyone.

I wish I had another way to contact you, so I believe my email is avail. on my profile. I greatly appreciate your insight and help!

[Serena2009]

Hye bassman,

 

Just got home. Was out with friends. I'm still here!! Will respond tomorrow. Hang in there!! I haven't forgotten. Stay strong.

 

Serena

[FreeNow]

You may want to check out Borderline Personality Disorder. But don't tell her your suspicions even if she meets criteria as it will probably blow up in your face. <--- {You've been cautioned!}

 

Mirroring, somatic complaints, push-pull, waif behavior, splitting, etc...

 

If she exhibited consistent black and white thinking then she really needs IC regardless. If she is diagnosed with BPD then DBT is cutting edge (no pun intended) for treatment, AFAIK.

[bassman57]

Another thing I might add here, in addition to the incident with the coffee, ironically, her FB had been hacked and ironically, all the friends she had "aquired" were deleted. She claimed that her email was also hacked.

Because of my receiving an email by mistake that was meant to go to her daughter. It was funny though, In the email, it said all the things that was the "trigger" to the event and was sent the day before I was dumped. No one, including her son, who I still get along with, knew anything previous to the breakup. NO ONE. Which seems odd. Everybody talks to those close to them before undertaking a huge thing like this to get different points of view!

Anyway, I am a computer tech and therefore she "thinks " I hacked into her email and FB. She has never accused me directly, but did send a FB message to 2 friends of mine, claiming "who else would or could do this? He knew my password!" Well, I never did know her password and had no need to know any password. She was asked by one friend when she gave me the password. She claims:

" it was on a piece of paper near the computer. i can never forgive him for throwing the coffee. That is ABUSE and that does not fly with me! Now... invasion of privacy! It's so sad!"

I remember back last June, were were broken up but talking. She has a sister who is viewed as the "black sheep" of the family. This sister had called me to do some work or "look" at her computer. I didn't want to really do it cuz I knew how she was viewed. However, my daughter nailed me to the wall on how I had raised her. "Dad... you always told me what kind of world would this be if everyone listened to what people say about others! She ( the sister)never did anything to you did she.

CORRECT!

So, when her sister called me again, I took the call, said I would stop and look at the pc. When I got there, I could see why she was viewed as the black sheep. She did nothing but bitch and complain about her entire family. I told her that I didn't see where I could find what was wrong with the computer SO I COULD GET THE HECK OUTTA THERE!

3 days later, my ex and I were possibly going to go fishing. That was until I received an email from her telling me all kinds of nasty things for talking to her sister. She found out due to their father running into the sister at Walmart where she worked. She told him how I had called her and wanted her to talk sense into my ex! Her dad, who is an old man of 82, told my ex. IT NEVER HAPPENED!! For all the reasons my ex indicated is exactly why I would not have talked to her anyway! Sheesh!

But my ex was extremely upset and after not cooling down after a couple days, I contacted her dad. I told him exactly what had happened. He said it was his fault as he said that the sister does tend to make things up. He would talk with my ex.

The next thing, I received a cheesy email from her saying " am I not to believe you never talked to my sister? Well then I apologize blah blah blah.

Cheap apology.

I sent her an email back telling her that I was going to stop the next day so we could have a talk. The next morning, she sent a "distressed" txt telling me to stay away from her house , her etc. (you know the kind) Then about 2 hrs later, I received another txt, saying she was downstairs at my apt and asked if she could come up. We talked, at times it was heated on my end, We spent all toll, 5 hrs together. see, like a light switch!

anyway, I am maintaining NC primarily because if I were to go to see her, she would react and probably call the cops. She is "in hiding" like a little kid!

4 weeks ago, her son called me as he had car troubles. So, I , being the person I am and a friend to him, helped him. When she found out , she, in his words " my mom id flipping out because you helped me! She's acting like a 5 yr old kid!

So, that, as well as my healing, is why I am able to maintain NC. She should be happy that her son felt he could call me and that I had helped him. No! she was acting like a child!

[Serena2009]

I know my reaction was wrong. I take and took full responsibility for that. As I have read on here,frequently these types return, as the anxiety level goes down and they start to miss you. The reason I reacted as I had was due to being caught totally off guard with this. My concern was her cramping.

 

I understand how frustrating dealing with this can be. And yes, if she's CP she may very well resurface . . . but let's hope not for your sake because she would likely return unchanged and if you were to fall for her again, it would just be the same cycle all over again and I know you don't want to go through that!!

 

It was like everything fit perfectly. I now see though that she was limited in what she could/would give. I mean, yes, we spent time together, it varied week to week. It was like she was calling the shots. She loves her TV time, and got a DVR finally to record things. But she also seemed to leave within a couple hours after getting up the following day of the nights she spent here.

 

See your statement bolded above!! She's limited in her capacity to give in the relationship while you're not!! It sounds like you really invested a lot in her and the relationship and got little in return. Those of us with a capacity to give of ourselves in a relationship give, but there's never a guarantee that those that we give to can give back in the same way in order to have a healthy reciprocal relationship. In other words, there's never any guarantee that we're going to get a return on what we invest in a relationship. This is especially true when we get involved with people whose minds are messed up!! In these cases its often better just to cut your losses and move forward.

 

The email she sent me after the coffee incident was "if you had allowed me to finish..." but for the most part, were carbon copies of previous emails from our breakup in May of 2009. In fact, I sent her an email in response to her's which was her previous emails copied and pasted into one email. She responded with:

" I don't have to read these, I get your point."

 

So . . . you're holding up the mirror to her so she can see herself but the trouble is . . . she doesn't want to look in the mirror.

She , as with before and the same now, always has a revelation "I LEARNED A MOST VALUABLE LESSON" always after the fact!

 

It sounds like it would take a heck of a lot to be her teacher and God knows if she'd ever learn and embrace what she needs to in order to have a healthy adult relationship. I don't think it's worth your time to be in that role, do you??

She had told me after the May incident, that she has NEVER been dumped, alwaqys either found a reason to leave but thought she was ready for a relationship. Before, same as now, "I realize I am not ready to have any kind of relationship with a man"

She said it's like she finds she is doing the same things over expecting different results.

 

So she recognizes she has some kind of cycle but does nothing to change it. It's one thing to recognize a pattern to your behavior, the more difficult component is being commited and working hard to change it! I'm sure you have a keen awareness of this already due to your understanding of alcoholism and the difficulty of changing the behavior.

I know Serena, that I am all over the map here, but I just wanna get through this and be in a place, should she ever realize what she had and screwed up again, that I am not so heartsick and weak to fall prey to this ever again with anyone.

I wish I had another way to contact you, so I believe my email is avail. on my profile. I greatly appreciate your insight and help!

 

I don't think you are all over the place at all. I'm having no difficulty following your story. You will get strong and you will get into a place where you won't fall prey to this again. Believe in yourself that you will get there because I know you will. It just takes a little time to get through the fog of confusion when you experience a mf such as this. Just be happy that you don't live in her mind!! If you did, you'd be in a state of fog and confusion all the time!! Stay strong and keep your chin up.

 

PS I'd offer you to PM me on LS but I don't think its available to you yet as a new member.

[Serena2009]

You may want to check out Borderline Personality Disorder. But don't tell her your suspicions even if she meets criteria as it will probably blow up in your face. <--- {You've been cautioned!}

 

Mirroring, somatic complaints, push-pull, waif behavior, splitting, etc...

 

If she exhibited consistent black and white thinking then she really needs IC regardless. If she is diagnosed with BPD then DBT is cutting edge (no pun intended) for treatment, AFAIK.

 

Bassman,

I think Freeman's suggestion of looking into the symptoms of BPD and seeing if they fit is worthwhile. And if after looking, that's what it seems to be . . . its a more massive mf than CP and you don't want to get anywhere near within 100 miles of this person and their twisted mind because twisting your mind is a symptom of this illness!! Whatever it is, CP or BPD, you don't have to live with it because you don't ever have to engage with her in any way ever again.

 

Hey Freeman,

I had similar thoughts. The OP is in strict NC with her and thank God for him that he is!!!

[FreeNow]

Hey Freeman,

I had similar thoughts. The OP is in strict NC with her and thank God for him that he is!!!

 

Yeah, regardless of what is troubling her, she seems like bad news for him. You might already know but another usage of fog is an acronym for Fear Obligation and Guilt. Given any real investment in such a relationship often results in the caregiving type of person being stuck in FOG. It's difficult for even therapists to keep things straight in conventional treatment.

 

Her behaviors are total no go indicators. Even if she were his daughter it would require a radical form of tough love.

 

NC is really the only safe option for you bassman57. Please have a look at BPDfamily on the web for your own healing. If you go there, read up on "hoovering" to prepare yourself for what comes next.

[bassman57]

Ok, I did some research on BPD. She doesn't fit into that.THANK GOD! CP is bad enough.

She has been sober now for 27 months. But, even though she has claimed that she knows she has issues and in her final email to me on Nov. 25th, she says she is getting help, blah blah blah.

I have just been told by so many people that they were all in such shock because this came outta nowhere.

To look at her FB, it hasn't even remotely affected her. How a person can act like this, but knowing that there is a pattern with their actions and continue to "think" from time to time they are ready to be in a relationship is sooo f*^ked up!

I remember the first night she decided to spend the night this second time around.

It was late Sept. We got into bed, she was somewhat figity, and said that although she was spending the night, she hoped I wasn't disappointed if were weren't intimate. That was not a big issue to me, and I told her that. I was just happy she was spending the night. She had told me that it took her quite a lot to face her fear. It never clicked to me! The following weekend, she spent the night again, was very eager to in fact. We were intimate and afterward, she had said she wanted to be.

If you were to have seen FB, all the constant txts, phone calls, involvement with her whole family, you all would gain a better understanding why I am so screwed up. As I said in my original post, My counselor suggested I use a "trigger" and I did that on Nov. 16th. Everything seemed to go well until I was dumped on Nov. 25th.

I have been blocked from her phone too. I found this out when she had sent me a hand written note in which she said she was going to repay mefor money I had given her to help her through the lean time of Oct. so she could pay her bills. She never asked me for money. EVER. She had just become a grandma and she was trying to help her son out with things and I wanted to help also. So I gave her money. It was only about $200. and I paid for little things here and there like oil change etc. To me, We were in a committed relationship and, thats just what you do. anyway, After I received the letter on Dec 14th, I tried to call her to see if we could sit down and talk, have closure and make payment arrangements. That's when I found out I was blocked!

She has been and continued to act like a little child in hiding. Could the coffee incident have played such a profound role in this? I meant YES... I WAS COMPLETELY WRONG! As I had said, It was like I was sucker punched!. But I just don't understand any of this.

I could go on, but I will wait to see what you have to say here.

[CleverName]

Hi, I'm new here too, same age as you, female. My first thought while reading the story was "she doesn't love him". And the big clue was the hesitant intimacy. She may have liked having a guy around to do things with. I only know myself and can't speak for anyone else but from my perspective if I love a man then I can't resist him. Seems to me that she was holding you at arm's length. I do that when I have a guy friend who wants more than I do.

 

I think she was trying to address the elephant in the room when she told you she wasn't in love with you.

 

If I loved you and you threw coffee on me I may get over it; if I didn't love you and you threw coffee on me, it would be the perfect easy way out.

 

I'm sorry this all turned out the way it did.

 

L.

Edited January 29, 2010 by CleverName

[Serena2009]

Ok, I did some research on BPD. She doesn't fit into that.THANK GOD! CP is bad enough.

 

THANK GOD is right!! It just lets you know that there are people out there dealing with some much bigger stuff than this!! CP IS bad enough!

I have just been told by so many people that they were all in such shock because this came outta nowhere.

As I said in my original post, My counselor suggested I use a "trigger" and I did that on Nov. 16th. Everything seemed to go well until I was dumped on Nov. 25th.

 

Hey bassman, if you look at your two quotes above, it seems like it DID come out of somewhere. I know you said in an earlier post that your counselor suggested this to save you from getting in deeper and suffering greater pain down the road if this were to have continued. I'm interested, what do you think gave your counselor the impression that things in the realtionship weren't right?

To look at her FB, it hasn't even remotely affected her. How a person can act like this, but knowing that there is a pattern with their actions and continue to "think" from time to time they are ready to be in a relationship is sooo f*^ked up!

 

Denial is an amazing thing!! It's a defense mechanism. But . . . having said that, I'm sure that the relationship has affected her in some way unless she is compltely without conscience.

I remember the first night she decided to spend the night this second time around.

It was late Sept. We got into bed, she was somewhat figity, and said that although she was spending the night, she hoped I wasn't disappointed if were weren't intimate. That was not a big issue to me, and I told her that. I was just happy she was spending the night. She had told me that it took her quite a lot to face her fear. It never clicked to me! The following weekend, she spent the night again, was very eager to in fact. We were intimate and afterward, she had said she wanted to be.

 

So, it sounds like you were assuming her fear had to do with sex, and now you're discovering her fear had to do with something greater than sex alone. And since you thought it had to do with sex, since you two continued to be intimate after this point you thought things were ok. Am I right?

If you were to have seen FB, all the constant txts, phone calls, involvement with her whole family, you all would gain a better understanding why I am so screwed up.

You don't have to convince me that she was seemingly really into the relationship. I believe you.

 

To me, We were in a committed relationship . . .

 

Wasn't it your conversation about wanting a future and possibly marriage with her what triggered her response? I think this is the core of the disconnect. You assumed that you were in a commited relationship that was growing toward a future together . . . while in reality, she cannot give you the kind of commitment you're looking for.

 

I have been blocked from her phone too. anyway, After I received the letter on Dec 14th, I tried to call her to see if we could sit down and talk, have closure and make payment arrangements. That's when I found out I was blocked!

She has been and continued to act like a little child in hiding. Could the coffee incident have played such a profound role in this? I meant YES... I WAS COMPLETELY WRONG! As I had said, It was like I was sucker punched!. But I just don't understand any of this.

I could go on, but I will wait to see what you have to say here.

 

I know you were sucker punched and reacted with the coffee incident that you take responsibility for it and regret it. Although the coffee incident didn't play a profound role in the reasons for the breakup, it's likely playing a role now resulting in her blocking your calls and not wanting to see you or communicate with you on any level. In all honestly, as a woman, if a man in anger threw coffee at me I would feel physically threatened and take action to protect myself from future threats. As a woman, if a man raises his voice in rage at me with no other physical signs I would feel threatened. It's because we're smaller and physically weaker than men.

 

I think you need to fully accept that she won't communicate with you at this point in time directly, or indirectly through other people. I know you're looking to understand but you're not going to gain the understanding from communicating with her anyway, it would likely just add to your confusion. Now is the time to take all that energy you focused on her, and redirect it to focusing on you and doing things for yourself. Before you know it, spring will be here and you'll be able to get out on the waters fishing for those giant bass that are out there. Take care. Hang in there. This will get easier.

[bassman57]

Well Serena, First off, Based upon what I had told my counselor back last May, She felt that since my ex had a unstable childhood filled with uncertainy etc as well as being a recovering alcoholic, coupled with all that had happened where the first time, she had snuck into my apt to get her things and leave mine. I'm telling you, she is so afraid of confrontation it isn't funny!

After she found her things were not around, she left, wrote me an email and asked "if" I still had them, she would like them. "IF"? I wouldn't think of throwing things belonging to someone out! I couldn't be that way. She also asked for her key back. So, after a couple of days, I got together with her, we talked etc. She eluded to me some of the very things a CP suffers from.

so, That is where my counselor got this from.

2nd.. No, she wasn't totally scared of sex. I have ED and she wanted to pay for 1/2 of the cost of the pills. So, as she had said as one of the excuses the first time around, she was very frustrated in the bed room. That however, wasn't the issue so much the first night. I honestly believe that she wanted this and thought that her fears were gone after that first night. I believe as does my counselor, that her fears were those of a CP.

She in early Nov, had mentioned about feeling smothered, which I didn't understand as we were never with each other constantly, My counselor told me that the "smothering" she is referring to is the beginning of the "monster within" so to speak.

She has had a "friend" who she did this very same thing with and when she ended things with him a couple years ago, he was such a fool that he said they could be friends just so he could be a part of her life! WHAT A FOOL! He owned the apt house she lives in and somehow, the house was fore closed on. He said to her and her dad that he had no idea it was happening. According to her family as well as her dad, she has never had anything more than feelings as that of a friend towards him. But she "tried" to make it more. This guy owns the fridge and stove in her apt. and I believe he was sooo head over heels in love with her, that he remodeled her apt, paid for her lawyer for her DWI 4 years ago etc. Just a complete fool! She had even told me over the summer that he kinda probably thought that since we had broken up, that he had a chance again. She keeps him at arms length. they are not intimate and according to her father, "he has been a good friend to her... but in my opinion, he's the perfect definition of a loser!" Her son has told me that she hangs out with him from time to time. It's actually funny. He will take her out to dinner, a movie spend time with her (when she allows it) and he rents a room in a friends house! So, I suspect that this will continue until he starts to try to get closer too. I dunno. I've never met him. She would only call him if the fridge was screwing up and seldom any other time. I remember when we were fishing every weekend during the summer. He had called he and asked her to go to a Renaissance Festival. She passed as she wasn't into that stuff and was really "hooked" on fishing. no pun intended. But she would ask if we could fish all the time. Days off etc. In fact, I wanted to take my boat out in early Nov as it was going to be a 70 degree day. She piped up, "I wanna go" she made arrangements to take the following day off!

So, it is clear that she is not "involved" with this guy, but when the next "victim" comes along, rest assured, he will be put back on the shelf!

WHO WANTS TO SETTLE FOR LEASS THAN WHAT THEY WANTED WITH SOMEONE AND THAT PERSON SAID THEY WANTED WITH ME?

GRRRR.

Sometimes I want to stop in to suprise her at the Barber shop. Sometimes I want to just apologige for my reaction because that is not me. And according to my counselor, deep inside, she knows that. But Sometimes I just stop and think how she really has no reason to think of me in any bad way other than my reaction and, knowing that and being totally honest with myself, I can look in the mirror and not feel ashamed or make excuses to myself. I dunno. I remember her sending txts throughout the day when she wasn't busy or even calling. She loved it when I would stop in unexpected. She said she felt very loved, very content. So, all I hope is that one day she will realize what she lost. But, I can't be her friend either. Especially not at this time, but How can one be friends with someone who does this? There is a pattern here. This idiot friend of hers will gladly be her friend cuz as she said, " I think I am the only good friend he has. He has no life really and few friends." Who wants to be a part of that. I just wanted the opportunity to apologize and tellher shame on you and you have no idea of the damage you do!

[Serena2009]

Well Serena, First off, Based upon what I had told my counselor back last May, She felt that since my ex had a unstable childhood filled with uncertainy etc as well as being a recovering alcoholic, coupled with all that had happened where the first time, she had snuck into my apt to get her things and leave mine. I'm telling you, she is so afraid of confrontation it isn't funny!

After she found her things were not around, she left, wrote me an email and asked "if" I still had them, she would like them. "IF"? I wouldn't think of throwing things belonging to someone out! I couldn't be that way. She also asked for her key back. So, after a couple of days, I got together with her, we talked etc. She eluded to me some of the very things a CP suffers from.

so, That is where my counselor got this from.

 

You're fortunate that you're in therapy with a counselor that was astute enough to pick up that you were involved with someone with a messed up mind before you invested more and got even deeper into the relationship!!

2nd.. No, she wasn't totally scared of sex. I have ED and she wanted to pay for 1/2 of the cost of the pills. So, as she had said as one of the excuses the first time around, she was very frustrated in the bed room. That however, wasn't the issue so much the first night. I honestly believe that she wanted this and thought that her fears were gone after that first night. I believe as does my counselor, that her fears were those of a CP.

 

She probably did and does imagine that something outside of herself will make her fears magically disappear. It's just not going to happen because this has to come from her. It sounds like she has very limited self-awareness. At least some CPs recognize that they freak out and run, and they accept this is irrational behavior, although they may never take steps to do what they need to do to overcome it. From what you describe, it seems like she doesn't even have a sound awareness of her patterns of behavior and is not near a level of taking ownership of them.

 

She in early Nov, had mentioned about feeling smothered, which I didn't understand as we were never with each other constantly, My counselor told me that the "smothering" she is referring to is the beginning of the "monster within" so to speak.

 

Some CPs have related the feeling they get to being similar to claustraphobia. It doesn't matter how much time you were actually spending together, the feeling was coming from within her own mind.

She has had a "friend" who she did this very same thing with and when she ended things with him a couple years ago, he was such a fool that he said they could be friends just so he could be a part of her life! WHAT A FOOL! He owned the apt house she lives in and somehow, the house was fore closed on. He said to her and her dad that he had no idea it was happening. According to her family as well as her dad, she has never had anything more than feelings as that of a friend towards him. But she "tried" to make it more. This guy owns the fridge and stove in her apt. and I believe he was sooo head over heels in love with her, that he remodeled her apt, paid for her lawyer for her DWI 4 years ago etc. Just a complete fool! She had even told me over the summer that he kinda probably thought that since we had broken up, that he had a chance again. She keeps him at arms length. they are not intimate and according to her father, "he has been a good friend to her... but in my opinion, he's the perfect definition of a loser!" Her son has told me that she hangs out with him from time to time. It's actually funny. He will take her out to dinner, a movie spend time with her (when she allows it) and he rents a room in a friends house! So, I suspect that this will continue until he starts to try to get closer too. I dunno. I've never met him. She would only call him if the fridge was screwing up and seldom any other time. I remember when we were fishing every weekend during the summer. He had called he and asked her to go to a Renaissance Festival. She passed as she wasn't into that stuff and was really "hooked" on fishing. no pun intended. But she would ask if we could fish all the time. Days off etc. In fact, I wanted to take my boat out in early Nov as it was going to be a 70 degree day. She piped up, "I wanna go" she made arrangements to take the following day off!

So, it is clear that she is not "involved" with this guy, but when the next "victim" comes along, rest assured, he will be put back on the shelf!

WHO WANTS TO SETTLE FOR LEASS THAN WHAT THEY WANTED WITH SOMEONE AND THAT PERSON SAID THEY WANTED WITH ME?

GRRRR.

 

Well, one things for sure, you don't want to get into a position of ever being that "back burner" guy and taken off the shelf at her leisure!! Who wants to settle for that??!! My CP ex-bf maintained a friendship with an ex of his from a short 3-month relationship he'd had the year before meeting me. I found it a bit odd but I never felt jealousy around it, although she felt very jealous of me. I remember him telling me that he felt sorry for her being stuck in a rural area with limited dating options. I remember responding to him frequently that I thought she still had feelings for him due to the way she reacted to me. He was always, NO, NO, NO, NO, you're wrong . . . until one night he called me all freaked out because she came onto him physically . . . at which point he agreed I was right. Anyway, I vowed to myself that I would NEVER be in a postion with him like hers . . . so when he wanted to break off and pushed with the friendship card I responded . . . "NO, we will NEVER be friends!!" He knew I was adamant and serious about it and I have maintained my position ever since. He doesn't get those parts of me that he holds so dear solely on his terms.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that although she's responsible for her behavior and its impact on others, she's really a tortured soul living an empty life because she isn't capable of experiencing normal attachment and genuine intimacy. Although her behavior is careless, I don't think she's intending to hurt anyone.

Sometimes I want to stop in to suprise her at the Barber shop.

NO, you must never do this. Trust me!! It will backfire on you in a BIG way!! Don't go anywehere near her!! She could even hype it up and get a restraining order on you and you don't want to risk that!! It's just not worth it!!

 

Sometimes I want to just apologige for my reaction because that is not me. And according to my counselor, deep inside, she knows that.

 

You'll get your chance to do this, to apologize, but you need to let the dust settle for a sufficient period of time and get your emotions completely under control before you try to connect with her in any way. For now, don't try to connect to her in any way. If there are things you feel like you need to say, write a letter and destroy it. I've got lots of unsent letters and its good to go back and read them when I start to idealize the relationship. It reminds me of all the sh^t that took place.

 

But Sometimes I just stop and think how she really has no reason to think of me in any bad way other than my reaction and, knowing that and being totally honest with myself, I can look in the mirror and not feel ashamed or make excuses to myself. I dunno. I remember her sending txts throughout the day when she wasn't busy or even calling. She loved it when I would stop in unexpected. She said she felt very loved, very content. So, all I hope is that one day she will realize what she lost. But, I can't be her friend either. Especially not at this time, but How can one be friends with someone who does this? There is a pattern here. This idiot friend of hers will gladly be her friend cuz as she said, " I think I am the only good friend he has. He has no life really and few friends." Who wants to be a part of that. I just wanted the opportunity to apologize and tellher shame on you and you have no idea of the damage you do!

 

I know you miss what you had, or at least what you THOUGHT you had! It's that way for almost everyone that's been dumped. Keep your dignity intact and don't go near her. And one day, I'm certain that she will realize what she lost. As stated above, I couldn't shift to the friend thing either and I'm 100% glad that I didn't!! You WILL get your opportunity to apologize and tell her about the damage that she caused. The timing is not right for doing this now. Trust me on this!! So . . . write what you need to but don't send it to her. I found this really helped me with the healing process! Keep your chin up, stay strong, and keep moving forward!!

[bassman57]

Well, that is just great. I had my session today before I read this and I sent her this message on FB. I wish I would've read your post first serena.

This is what I had sent to her.

 

I WANT TO TAKE A MINUTE TO ADDRESS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN BOTHERING ME FOR SOME TIME. I SINCERELY WANT TO APOLOGIZE FOR MY BEHAVIOR TOWARDS YOU BACK IN NOVEMBER. OUR FRIENDSHIP REALLY MEANT ALOT TO ME AND AT THAT POINT IN TIME AS YOU KNOW, I WAS WRESTLING WITH ISSUES CONCERNING CHRIS. I KNOW WE HAD TALKED ABOUT IF THAT WAS TO HAPPEN TO YOU HOW IT WOULD'VE AFFECTED YOU.

IT WAS AFFECTING ME ALOT. I WAS ALSO VERY CONCERNED WITH THE CRAMPS YOU WERE HAVING AND WHAT WAS CAUSING THEM. SO WHEN YOU HAD TEXTED MY TO STOP BY, BEING DUMPED WAS FURTHER THAN THE LAST THING I HAD EXPECTED TO HEAR FROM YOU. REGARDLESS, I WAS VERY WRONG BY THROWING THE COFFEE AT AND ON YOU.

AS FAR AS THE OTHER STUFF THAT I HAD HEARD ABOUT FROM (omitted) AND (omitted), I NEVER DID NOR WOULD DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO ANYONE. I HAVE YOUR SS# FOR THE LIFE INS POLICY I HAVE SO IF I REALLY WAS THE TYPE OF PERSON YOU APPARENTLY THINK ME TO BE, I COULD JUST AS EASILY HAVE SOLD THAT SO SOMEONE COULD STEAL YOUR IDENTITY.

ANYWAY, I AM SORRY AGAIN FOR WHAT HAPPENED AND I HOPE ONE DAY YOU CAN FIND IT IN YOUR HEART TO FORGIVE ME.

TAKE CARE,

As I explained to my counselor and we had talked about.... I have to be true to myself. I was wrong in my actions that day and aside of what it, it bothers and has bothered me.

I am responsible for me.

I hope I didn't screw up sending this after reading what you have said.

I explained the NC thing to my counselor and although she agrees it keeps you from saying things that you may regret, she thought that at this point in time, 2 months after the fact, it would be ok to send a note, be to the point and end it.

[Serena2009]

Hey Bassman,

 

I think your apology to her is sincere and genuine. I know the coffee incident was weighing heavily on your mind. If by doing this, it makes it easier to let go, heal, and move on, you've done the right thing. It takes a big person to apologize in this way and you should be proud of yourself that you were able to do it. As one who was raised Catholic to another, you've now taken responsibility for your own actions, made your confession, and that's all that really matters in the eyes of God. I pray that now you're able to move forward toward the life that you deserve. Take care and rest easily knowing that you've cleared your conscience.

[FreeNow]

If CP means commitment phobia then, IMHO, no way CP is all that's eating at her. She might not even deep down care that much about the relationship. Regardless, her behaviors are bizarre enough to indicate something deeper at work with her. I have no idea what it is but based upon the information posted, it makes no sense to pursue such a situation. It wouldn't be in your best interest or in hers.

 

If she were a child or something then her behaviors would make sense. But an adult that is considered, within reason, mentally healthy?! Nope.

 

As it is your life to live, I wish you well with it bassman57...

 

Yeah, regardless of what is troubling her, she seems like bad news for him.

Her behaviors are total no go indicators.

NC is really the only safe option for you bassman57.

[bassman57]

Serena & Freenow,Thank you both. Yes, I feel better having cleared my conscience. At that point in time, I had alot on my plate and had absolutely no control over any of it. She knew that, but due to her "issues" and the fear within, I'm sure she didn't think about that. It is apparent unfortunately, that she thinks, if at all, in the moment and doesn't realize that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Anyway, I have to live with me and whether or not she even read the message I sent her on FB, I did what I felt was the right thing. I don't feel that I left the door open or sounded wussy. I did my best, as I can be long winded at times, to keep it short and to the point.

I also know that I was sincere in the relationship as well as her friend. Even though I still ache alot, somehow, looking back, I feel that by her looking thru tunnel vision, she failed to see the big picture and one day when this happens again with another, maybe, she will recall this.

Freenow, All I know is that it is very very difficult dealing with a CP and one who has to act like a scared child in hiding at that.

I do not know how someone can act like this ( a 51 yr old child) and be able to look in the mirror.

But, I am glad I am not her because the only thing that makes any sense with any of this is she has issues. She knows this, but I really don't see where she has done anything to try to fix it. It hurts. I believe in people and I expect people to believe in me. WTF

[bassman57]

I addition, I believe that one can't truely move on until they deal with the past. She had said that she had a feeling that this new year will bring good things for her.

I dunno, I do believe what goes around comes around and I only hope that one day she will get hers. Crash & burn???

[Serena2009]

If CP means commitment phobia then, IMHO, no way CP is all that's eating at her. She might not even deep down care that much about the relationship. Regardless, her behaviors are bizarre enough to indicate something deeper at work with her. I have no idea what it is but based upon the information posted, it makes no sense to pursue such a situation. It wouldn't be in your best interest or in hers.

 

If she were a child or something then her behaviors would make sense. But an adult that is considered, within reason, mentally healthy?! Nope.

 

As it is your life to live, I wish you well with it bassman57...

 

Hey Bassman,

 

Ditto to what FreeNow says above!!

 

Serena & Freenow,Thank you both. Yes, I feel better having cleared my conscience. At that point in time, I had alot on my plate and had absolutely no control over any of it. She knew that, but due to her "issues" and the fear within, I'm sure she didn't think about that. It is apparent unfortunately, that she thinks, if at all, in the moment and doesn't realize that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Anyway, I have to live with me and whether or not she even read the message I sent her on FB, I did what I felt was the right thing. I don't feel that I left the door open or sounded wussy. I did my best, as I can be long winded at times, to keep it short and to the point.

 

I think your message was very sincere, genuine, and to the point. You did the right thing and said what you needed to say and no matter how she reacts or deosn't react to it, you can rest easy knowing that you've explained yourself and made your amends.

I also know that I was sincere in the relationship as well as her friend. Even though I still ache alot, somehow, looking back, I feel that by her looking thru tunnel vision, she failed to see the big picture and one day when this happens again with another, maybe, she will recall this.

Freenow, All I know is that it is very very difficult dealing with a CP and one who has to act like a scared child in hiding at that.

I do not know how someone can act like this ( a 51 yr old child) and be able to look in the mirror.

 

Bassman, there are people who go through their entire life and never look in the mirror and see what's really there. I know this often doesn't occur to those of us who try to live life fairly and do the right thing by others. We end up asking "WHY???" because we think they're looking at life through the same lens that we are, and we would never behave in such a way. The thing to keep in mind is that not everyone is seeing life through the same lens as ours and not everyone has a fully developed conscience so as to be able to even discern right from wrong. People who are messed up in this way often have a moral compass that is messed up as well. Their thinking is twisted.

But, I am glad I am not her because the only thing that makes any sense with any of this is she has issues. She knows this, but I really don't see where she has done anything to try to fix it. It hurts. I believe in people and I expect people to believe in me. WTF

Bassman, she does have issues and only she can fix those issues! There's nothing you could have said or done to fix her issues. I know it hurts and it hurts badly to develop a romantic attachment to someone with these issues because what ends up happening is that due to their issues, they cannot experience love fully and end up hurting us. Her incapacity to believe in you had nothing to do with you being you, it had everything to do with her being her. Don't let this jade you or influence you to becoming closed off because there truly are many wonderful people in the world who have the capacity to love in a healthy way and don't live in messed up minds.

 

I addition, I believe that one can't truely move on until they deal with the past. She had said that she had a feeling that this new year will bring good things for her.

I dunno, I do believe what goes around comes around and I only hope that one day she will get hers. Crash & burn???

 

I believe there is a day of reckoning for everyone whether it be in this life, or in some realm beyond. So . . . I guess all we can do is pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and keep moving forward into our future knowing that we can look at ourselves straight on in the mirror and maybe the lessons that we've learned as a result of this painful experience can be put to good use in assisting others. You'll get through this Bassman. Different emotions wax and wane through the process but I can promise you, it does get easier with time.