Eeyore79 Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 So I've fallen in love with you, you've wasted months/years of my time, we possibly live together and share mutual family/friends/bills, and now you're telling me that you don't want kids so I've completely wasted my time all along? Not wanting kids is a deal-breaker for a large proportion of women, so imo it's only fair to make that clear up-front before you waste her time and break her heart when she has to dump you. Plus you risk getting your own heart broken when your wannabe-baby-mama kicks you out and starts dating someone who does want kids.
Author Barky Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 it's only fair to make that clear up-front before you waste her time and break her heart when she has to dump you. Yes, I think we've all agreed on that. The question is: What's "up front?" Is it before the first date, before the third date, before the 17th date, before sex, before 'love,' before the woman gets her hopes up for a family, before the wedding, before the woman comes off the pill, before condoms stop being used, before the woman goes to the OBGYN to find out why she's unable to get pregnant despite 5 years of trying....?
Eeyore79 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I would say, after a couple of dates when you like one another and plan to continue dating. To reveal it before the first date is probably jumping the gun, as you may not even like each other. Having said that, personally I'd want to know before I even wasted time, money and makeup on one date...
Buttnutter100 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I don't think he should tell anyone he's had a vasectomy. At least not until the point where they are actually talking about whether to get married to each other. Why is it any business of the women he casually dates whether or not he had a vasectomy (assuming he's using condoms/she's on the pill)? If she wants to have sex, she has sex. If she doesn't want to have sex, she doesn't have to. I mean seriously--I suppose if she says "I will not have sex with you unless you agree to impregnate me RIGHT NOW!" then maybe he should tell her he can't do that because he's had a vasectomy. How many of the women that he dates will refuse to have sex with him, or any man, UNLESS they KNOW they are going to wind up in an LTR with kids with him? I would say zero percent. If the women don't want to have sex unless he FIRST promises to have sex and raise children with them, that's a different story of course. It seems to me however that both parties will want to sample the sexual wares before making that kind of a judgment anyway.
Eeyore79 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Personally I only have sex with people I can foresee an LTR with. If there is definitely no possibility of an LTR (and there wouldn't be, not even if he wanted to, because I want kids) then I would appreciate him letting me know before I have sex with him under false assumptions. You can't know that you'll end up in an LTR with kids, but you might hope you will, so if there's no hope then there's no relationship and therefore no sex, unless you conned me into thinking that there was hope where there's none. Waiting until marriage is on the cards is far too late... but marriage would never be on the cards, would it, if he didn't want an LTR?
Author Barky Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) How many of the women that he dates will refuse to have sex with him, or any man, UNLESS they KNOW they are going to wind up in an LTR with kids with him? I would say zero percent. Well that's a good point. Another thing he and I discussed is an entirely different point: maybe HE should make the decision as to what direction the relationship should take, rather than letting the woman do it. By this I mean: Suppose he goes out a couple times with a girl, and he knows that he doesn't want to marry her or have kids with her, but he'd like to date her for a little while. He doesn't tell her AT ALL, EVER about his vasectomy. Because, let's face it, he's not going to marry her or have kids with her, so what does it matter if he's sterile? Of course he wouldn't blurt out, "Oh, by the way, I'm loving the sex but I just thought I'd let you know that I'd never marry you nor have kids with you." If she started the "where is this going?" talk then yeah he'd be up-front, but he wouldn't volunteer that information. Because let's face it, guys date girls all the time they know they'd never marry or have kids with. So if he's with one of those types of girls, he'd simply keep his sterility to himself for as long as the relationship lasted. After all, since there's no way he'd have kids with her anyway, it's none of her business. And if he meets a girl who COULD be long-term material, then he'd tell her and, well, if she dumps him then that's his problem. How about that? It puts the decision-making in his hands, rather than the woman's hands. Edited January 28, 2010 by Barky
melodymatters Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Personally I only have sex with people I can foresee an LTR with. If there is definitely no possibility of an LTR (and there wouldn't be, not even if he wanted to, because I want kids) then I would appreciate him letting me know before I have sex with him under false assumptions. You can't know that you'll end up in an LTR with kids, but you might hope you will, so if there's no hope then there's no relationship and therefore no sex, unless you conned me into thinking that there was hope where there's none. Waiting until marriage is on the cards is far too late... but marriage would never be on the cards, would it, if he didn't want an LTR? yeah, it SEEMS like putting the cart before the horse, but it's also like interviewing for a certain job if you KNOW you aren't going to take it, looking at houses with a Realtor when you KNOW you aren't buying in that area....it's just.....unfair...karmically. When I DID want children, I made VERY sure to suss out their feelings on the subject. I appreciated the guy who told me he had a vasectomy. WE still dated for a while and are friends to this day, but it DID change things. I think he should be honest before they get attached, get into an exclusive relationship, and at least feel HER out on the issue : If she says on the 3rd date after a casual Q &A, " I can't wait to be a mom !" Your friend would be behaving like a dirt bag if he didn't tell her. He doesn't need to reveal the vasectomy, he IS morally bound to tell woman of child bearing age that he has no interest in having children !
Buttnutter100 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 It seems like some of the ladies who your buddy is dating might get mad that he's using a bait and switch tactic on them. On the other hand, this also implies that lots of these ladies use casual sex at the beginning of the relationship to "lure" the man into the LTR. I mean seriously put the shoe on the other foot. How many of these ladies come flat out and say "Hey I'll have sex with you but my goal is to have an LTR with you and children with you, using the sex to trap you into the relationship?" Not many would be that honest I'd wager. The solution to the "problem" for these ladies is: Don't have any sex with guys until AFTER you are actually in an LTR and have discussed these issues with him. Of course many guys would just dump the ladies who "held out" on the sex after a couple of dates so the desperate (or horny) ladies give it up anyway.
melodymatters Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Well that's a good point. Another thing he and I discussed is an entirely different point: maybe HE should make the decision as to what direction the relationship should take, rather than letting the woman do it. By this I mean: Suppose he goes out a couple times with a girl, and he knows that he doesn't want to marry her or have kids with her, but he'd like to date her for a little while. He doesn't tell her AT ALL, EVER about his vasectomy. Because, let's face it, he's not going to marry her or have kids with her, so what does it matter if he's sterile? Of course he wouldn't blurt out, "Oh, by the way, I'm loving the sex but I just thought I'd let you know that I'd never marry you nor have kids with you." If she started the "where is this going?" talk then yeah he'd be up-front, but he wouldn't volunteer that information. Because let's face it, guys date girls all the time they know they'd never marry or have kids with. So if he's with one of those types of girls, he'd simply keep his sterility to himself for as long as the relationship lasted. After all, since there's no way he'd have kids with her anyway, it's none of her business. And if he meets a girl who COULD be long-term material, then he'd tell her and, well, if she dumps him then that's his problem. How about that? It puts the decision-making in his hands, rather than the woman's hands. Ok, but as an attractive woman who could get laid every night if I so wished, I would STILL feel an obligation to tell the doe eyed young lads that I am NOT looking for anything serious if that was the case. So, we are forgetting about the sterilty and taking this discussion to the " If I know I don't see anything long term, am I obligated to tell her" class room ?!?
melodymatters Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 It seems like some of the ladies who your buddy is dating might get mad that he's using a bait and switch tactic on them. On the other hand, this also implies that lots of these ladies use casual sex at the beginning of the relationship to "lure" the man into the LTR. I mean seriously put the shoe on the other foot. How many of these ladies come flat out and say "Hey I'll have sex with you but my goal is to have an LTR with you and children with you, using the sex to trap you into the relationship?" Not many would be that honest I'd wager. The solution to the "problem" for these ladies is: Don't have any sex with guys until AFTER you are actually in an LTR and have discussed these issues with him. Of course many guys would just dump the ladies who "held out" on the sex after a couple of dates so the desperate (or horny) ladies give it up anyway. Pretty much ! I am in my 40's and have never been "played". We were equally committed and either it worked out or it didn't, but NO SEX, until we are BOTH committed, and believe me, I could tell !
Eeyore79 Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 let's face it, guys date girls all the time they know they'd never marry or have kids with. So if he's with one of those types of girls, he'd simply keep his sterility to himself for as long as the relationship lasted. After all, since there's no way he'd have kids with her anyway, it's none of her business. Yeah, but those sort of guys are douchebags. If you don't want a relationship with a girl, don't f*** about with her; it isn't nice to mislead her, and omission is the same as lying. The fact is, she is probably hoping for long term prospects and if there is absolutely no chance then she deserves to know up-front. I repeat: I know that guys frequently use girls by pretending there are long term prospects where there are none, but those sort of guys are douchebags, and just because they treat women like crap it doesn't give the guy we're discussing in this thread the right to do it too. By all means, if he wants to he can string women along and not tell them that he doesn't want LTR and kids, but he ought to feel like crap if he does it because it's complete douchebag behaviour.
txsilkysmoothe Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 He wonders at what point should he let his dates know that he will not be fathering any children, with them or anyone else. This is the type of man who usually sleeps with women within the first couple of dates. In fact I know that if it goes past 2-3 dates and no sex has taken place, he moves on to the next girl. He's not super attractive but he is charming and just relentlessly hits on tons of women so there's always one around the corner. Why would he want to share something so personal with women he treats so casually?
You'reasian Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Insightful response carhill, I'll definitely copy and paste that to my bud. You may be right in this day and age you can do whatever you want and find women who are cool with it. Hoping2heal... Keep in mind it's not me, it's my friend. And I'd suggest that in this day and age if you're getting attached within the first few dates, you're opening yourself to major hurt. Can't speak for my friend in this regard, but with me I might sleep with the girl on the first few dates but don't really "open my emotions" until a couple/few months down the line. Sex and love are two very different things in my book (again, I can't speak for my pal, whose actions we're discussing here.) As far as your friend being sterile that's a conversation that he should have face to face with the woman he's with - same with dating, its good practice to relay your intentions once you start to get comfortable with the woman.
tami-chan Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 If he is having sex with women on their first or second meeting, I would assume the women do not expect to get pregnant-so why disclose? He should still be using protection even if he has been snipped. Not to use one is just really irresponsible! If he is in a "relationship"...I am sure topics can be steered towards "kids" and then he can disclose how he does not want kids and therefore got snipped.
2sure Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 To many women, myself included, the fact that he had a vasectomy would be a plus. A huge, great big plus.
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