Woggle Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 I do have serious trust issues with women and there is no doubt that they play into why I find it so hard to truly open my heart to my wife but that is only part of it. The fact is that I am still in love with the woman my ex used to be while we were living in New York. I have such fond memories of those times and I often wonder how different things would have been if we never moved to New Jersey. I still do not understand what the hell happened or what switch was flipped in her when we moved. Despite my bravado having this happen was like stabbed in the gut. That person she was no longer exists in reality anymore but my feelings are still there.
NowhereToHide Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 This is completely normal. And it's understandable that you have trust issues because of what you experienced. It sounds like you need to mourn the woman that she once was. Make the story of "what was" have a final ending now. Recognize that what you had was beautiful, and for a myriad of reasons, she ended up taking a path that led to the demise of your marriage. The thing is, Woggle... it is so apparent in your posts how very angry you are towards women. You have to let that anger go... And you sound like you might finally be ready. I'm sure you love your wife, but true and lasting love involves opening yourself up completely. You need to allow yourself to be vulnerable again. Do you trust her? If you do, then give her the best gift possible. Move on from the pain of your past and open yourself up to her completely. It is NOT easy, but the rewards will be immense.
carhill Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Wogs, the same thing happened to my best friend over 30 years ago. His first W found coke and went nuts. Luckily he got his two girls outta there. With kids and grandkids, she's still around so one can easily see the effects of that life on her. IMO, that's probably what happened to your ex. There was something in her personality which, combined with coke, created the person who shot at you. Of course you loved her. You married her. I believe we all go into that with the best of intentions and feelings. Sometimes it works out great. Sometimes it's a disaster. Sounds to me like the current marriage is treating you just fine. It's OK to love what once was. IMO, it's healthy. You loved who you were with your first W before she changed. She can never take that away from you. To me, accepting the past is part of releasing the past. Hope it works out for you
Author Woggle Posted January 27, 2010 Author Posted January 27, 2010 This is completely normal. And it's understandable that you have trust issues because of what you experienced. It sounds like you need to mourn the woman that she once was. Make the story of "what was" have a final ending now. Recognize that what you had was beautiful, and for a myriad of reasons, she ended up taking a path that led to the demise of your marriage. The thing is, Woggle... it is so apparent in your posts how very angry you are towards women. You have to let that anger go... And you sound like you might finally be ready. I'm sure you love your wife, but true and lasting love involves opening yourself up completely. You need to allow yourself to be vulnerable again. Do you trust her? If you do, then give her the best gift possible. Move on from the pain of your past and open yourself up to her completely. It is NOT easy, but the rewards will be immense. I don't even know if I would call it anger. I have no desire to harm women or anything like that. I could never imagine doing something like George Sodini did but I can't trust a woman to save my life and quite honestly I feel I have good reason. Time after time you see on this board stories from men who thought they had something great only to have their woman do a complete 180 on them and it has left seriously disillusioned towards the opposite sex. I think there is a lot of truth to that other thread about men never being the same after the first heartbreak. Once a woman betrays a man it rips the mask off of womankind forever. Once the blinders are taken off they can't be put back on. I would have literally died for my ex and there was nothing I would have not done for her and what did I get in return. I get cheated on and abused because that some friends who dragged her down into the depth of drug addiction knew better. I think the reason she reacted so violently when she heard of me getting remarried was because it finally sunk in what she had thrown away. She had pure love from a man who had yet to turn into the misogynist I am today and threw it away to follow her so called liberated friends. I would be able to get over it if I didn't hear story after story after story from men who go through the same thing I did. I know you will probably think this is more misogynisyt whining but if you really put yourself in a man's shoes you will see why so many of us don't trust women.
NowhereToHide Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 I don't even know if I would call it anger. I have no desire to harm women or anything like that. I could never imagine doing something like George Sodini did but I can't trust a woman to save my life and quite honestly I feel I have good reason. Time after time you see on this board stories from men who thought they had something great only to have their woman do a complete 180 on them and it has left seriously disillusioned towards the opposite sex. I think there is a lot of truth to that other thread about men never being the same after the first heartbreak. Once a woman betrays a man it rips the mask off of womankind forever. Once the blinders are taken off they can't be put back on. I would have literally died for my ex and there was nothing I would have not done for her and what did I get in return. I get cheated on and abused because that some friends who dragged her down into the depth of drug addiction knew better. I think the reason she reacted so violently when she heard of me getting remarried was because it finally sunk in what she had thrown away. She had pure love from a man who had yet to turn into the misogynist I am today and threw it away to follow her so called liberated friends. I would be able to get over it if I didn't hear story after story after story from men who go through the same thing I did. I know you will probably think this is more misogynisyt whining but if you really put yourself in a man's shoes you will see why so many of us don't trust women. Listen, Woggle.... your dilemma is NOT exclusive to men. Take a wander over the the Infidelity board and listen to post after post from WOMEN who have had their hearts ripped out by their cheating husbands. In fact, I would wager that there isn't a man or woman on these boards (or anywhere for that matter) who have not had their hearts ripped out by someone they cared for deeply. Myself included. What you have experienced is true heartbreak. You gave yourself to someone completely, you trusted her without reservation. And she disappointed you -- she hurt you in the worst way possible. No doubt. That said, you have a choice. You can continue on the path you are on. You can continue to be angry and hurt, continue to not trust ANY woman (including your wife), you continue to live in fear of that happening again. THAT IS YOUR CHOICE. OR... you can make a conscious choice to move FORWARD. Not to forget, because that is unrealistic. But to move forward with true love, trust and openness in your marriage. I'm not going to tell you you're not valid to feel the way that you do. On the contrary. I am going to point out to you, however, that if you continue on the path you are on, the likelihood of your marriage being healthy long term isn't good. And if your marriage ends, you will end up chalking it up to the fact that you were right to never trust a woman again. And you will be "right" in your convictions, but forever alone. And to be honest, if you really want to move on, get the hell off of these boards. They are just feeding your self-righteous indignation towards women. You are getting reinforcement by a board that is a small sample of the world at large. It's not helping you to get closure and move on.
nddb Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Listen, Woggle.... your dilemma is NOT exclusive to men. Take a wander over the the Infidelity board and listen to post after post from WOMEN who have had their hearts ripped out by their cheating husbands. In fact, I would wager that there isn't a man or woman on these boards (or anywhere for that matter) who have not had their hearts ripped out by someone they cared for deeply. Myself included. What you have experienced is true heartbreak. You gave yourself to someone completely, you trusted her without reservation. And she disappointed you -- she hurt you in the worst way possible. No doubt. That said, you have a choice. You can continue on the path you are on. You can continue to be angry and hurt, continue to not trust ANY woman (including your wife), you continue to live in fear of that happening again. THAT IS YOUR CHOICE. OR... you can make a conscious choice to move FORWARD. Not to forget, because that is unrealistic. But to move forward with true love, trust and openness in your marriage. I'm not going to tell you you're not valid to feel the way that you do. On the contrary. I am going to point out to you, however, that if you continue on the path you are on, the likelihood of your marriage being healthy long term isn't good. And if your marriage ends, you will end up chalking it up to the fact that you were right to never trust a woman again. And you will be "right" in your convictions, but forever alone. And to be honest, if you really want to move on, get the hell off of these boards. They are just feeding your self-righteous indignation towards women. You are getting reinforcement by a board that is a small sample of the world at large. It's not helping you to get closure and move on. You said it all. Exactly my sentiments.
alphamale Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 The fact is that I am still in love with the woman my ex used to be while we were living in New York. I have such fond memories of those times and I often wonder how different things would have been if we never moved to New Jersey. dude don't live in the past
Author Woggle Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 Deep down I know you guy are right but I truly am like a frightened animal when I feel threatened. It's not just one thing and that is what makes it so hard. The worst thing was not being shot at because I can chalk that up to her finally going over the edge but her calling me an abuser and a rapist in court had to be one of the worst days in my life. You have no idea what it feels like to have your soon to be ex call make you out to be the worst abuser ever and have the whole court look at you like a monster until she is caught in a lie. It is not an experience I would wish on my worst enemy. It shows me that either she was a damn good actress in New York or she did a complete personality change in NJ and it shows me that no matter how great a woman seems she can turn on you without warning. I know it is unfair to my wife to keep myself closed off but I don't want to be betrayed like that again.
whichwayisup Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Acceptance, letting go of the past is what you have to do so you can move on with your life, with your marriage. If you can't, you are always going to wait for the bomb to drop at home with your current wife.. Which leads me to.. I know it is unfair to my wife to keep myself closed off but I don't want to be betrayed like that again. Your current wife is not your ex wife. They are two different women, with two different personalities, different life experiences, different upbringings. PLUS, your current wife is older and wiser.. Woggle, sorry, and I mean this with the utmost respect - But if you can't get past these trust issues, and just love your wife, accept her for who she is, no comparisons to anybody else - You may lose her.. And not by betrayal, but because she doesn't feel you love her, or value her, or care about her.
Author Woggle Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 I think some people may have a point about this board doing more harm than good. I can be in a great mood and when I come home and read some of the threads on this board it puts me in such a rotten mood towards women and relationships. I know I tend to view things with my own lense but you can't deny that there is much truth to my observations about male/female relationships. Just look at some of these threads to see what I am afraid of.
alphamale Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Just look at some of these threads to see what I am afraid of. then don't read those threads
Author Woggle Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 then don't read those threads Not reading them does not help things. If everybody you knew seemed to be getting a disease would you feel confident that somehow you would be spared?
lordWilhelm Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 LS can be a bit of an addiction in itself. Use it in moderation.
NowhereToHide Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Not reading them does not help things. If everybody you knew seemed to be getting a disease would you feel confident that somehow you would be spared? Woggle, I feel you. I do. But this level of distrust and anxiety is NOT okay to live with on a day-to-day basis. It just isn't. It's as though you are a man living with post-traumatic stress disorder. Any gunshot and you are ready to attack. The reasons for your ex-wife turning out the way she did are irrelevant. I understand you wanting to make sense of it all, but you are not going to get the answers you need. And even if you did, they won't change how you are feeling or the extreme reaction you had to what occurred. I am imploring you, PLEASE work through these issues. And it sounds like you are in desperate need of individual counseling. You need a safe place to go to process what you went through and what are rational vs. irrational fears based on those experiences. Don't discount how much therapy could help you. It can be transformative. You can't continue to live on this path, my friend. It's going to eat you alive.
D-Lish Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Not reading them does not help things. If everybody you knew seemed to be getting a disease would you feel confident that somehow you would be spared? Woggle, how many happy, satisfied people do you see posting? People are here because they are seeking help for their issues. The happy, healthy people are few and far between on here (no offence to anyone;)) Most of the people here are seeking help- so you are not seeing a true cross-section of society. Of course if you go to an infidelity forum you are going to see a lot of infidelity.... right?
Author Woggle Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 I will never understand what happened with my ex but when I see the same thing happening to so many men it makes me very uneasy about my marriage. I read some threads on here I think to myself that it could be me and despite what many women on here it seems that the more a man opens himself up to a woman and the more he tries to make her happy the quicker she is to fall out of love with him. I don't want to become that man who my wife sees as a brother that she has no attraction to.
Author Woggle Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 Woggle, how many happy, satisfied people do you see posting? People are here because they are seeking help for their issues. The happy, healthy people are few and far between on here (no offence to anyone;)) Most of the people here are seeking help- so you are not seeing a true cross-section of society. Of course if you go to an infidelity forum you are going to see a lot of infidelity.... right? You yourself have even admitted that all your married friends are miserable and I would bet that many of these guys are good men but for some reason they just don't do it for them. I don't want to become like those men.
threebyfate Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Woggle, how many women on this forum have also been hurt by men? There's never a guarantee that a relationship will last forever, so you might as well fully enjoy what you have now.
Author Woggle Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 Woggle, how many women on this forum have also been hurt by men? There's never a guarantee that a relationship will last forever, so you might as well fully enjoy what you have now. You yourself are one of the rare women on this forum who truly was a victim in her first marriage. Most threads are by married women chasing after married men yet they are treated as victims.
Outcast Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Albert Ellis taught us that we make ourselves miserable by the way we think. We choose to believe things which are irrational and then allow those beliefs to make us miserable. Case in point: it rips the mask off of womankind forever It is empirically impossible for all of womankind to behave identically. Your confirmation bias has you seeking out 'information' which, you think, 'proves' that what you believe is true. I will never understand what happened with my ex but when I see the same thing happening to so many men it makes me very uneasy about my marriage. However, you only see one side of the stories of these men. I've seen two sides of some bad marriages - the men were every bit to blame as the women; the women didn't 'change' but rather reacted to what the men were doing. People, in general, do not see their faults or flaws in relationships and do not report honestly about themselves. So you have to understand that many of the sad stories you are using as 'proof' that 'all' women are horrible are fluff and air. You would do yourself a tremendous favour if you read John Gottman and other relationship gurus who have stories of happy endings to tell. It is not impossible to achieve. I read some threads on here I think to myself that it could be me and despite what many women on here it seems that the more a man opens himself up to a woman and the more he tries to make her happy the quicker she is to fall out of love with him. I don't want to become that man who my wife sees as a brother that she has no attraction to. Have you ever had a conversation with her about what she likes and admires in men? Have you ever asked what she thought of men who were open? How do you marry someone that you've never had this sort of conversation with in the first place? My guess is that she isn't at all happy that you're not open but she's gritting her teeth and putting up with your coldness because she loves you. However, the lack of emotional intimacy will, eventually, be the death of your relationship. Divorces happen because people are not close. Not because of sex or anything else, but because they are not well bonded. You didn't know the woman you married. You married an illusion and learned, later, the true measure of her. You suffered pain - and you survived. You lived, and even managed to attract another woman. There is nothing to be afraid of. Pain is bad, but you get through it. We all do. We all have - including you. You - and too many men like you - have been over-traumatized. Look into EMDR. Get therapy. A life lived in fear is a life half-lived. Is that what you're willing to settle for?
NoIDidn't Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Not reading them does not help things. If everybody you knew seemed to be getting a disease would you feel confident that somehow you would be spared? But you don't even know the people writing these threads. Most are worlds away from you. You are wasting your time basing your life on some website's threads. You think your W doesn't see that. Or is she too scared to lose you to tell you the truth? I can't imagine that she doesn't see it. The posting all night. The staying up all night to read the posts. The mood changes based on the threads that you have read. There is very little truth regarding your misogynistic rants. Very little. It applies to a very small subset of women IRL. And even women don't like to be around *those* women IRL. So stop repeating that nonsense to bolster your believe that you are right to have such an opinion of the opposite sex. I've told you before that I was the female equivalent of you. I didn't trust a word my H said. I suspected ulterior motives in just about everything he did. The thing he hated most was when I said "typical male" to him when he did something that I didn't agree with or that annoyed me in general. I was wrong for treating the man that I loved in that way. I don't know exactly when I started to change, but I am glad that I did. And I didn't do/say the things I did because I was "right". I did/said them because I was afraid, Wogs. Afraid that he was going to hurt me like I felt every other man in my life had. But my H wasn't my exes, or my father, or the guy that raped* me, or the guy that attempted to rape* me, etc., etc.. He wasn't any of those guys. And I was hurting him. Hurting him for something he wasn't responsible for. Hurting him because I was afraid to be hurt again, and too scared to tell him why. Your beliefs aren't rooted in truth, they are rooted in fear. (*I really am okay about this at this point in my life. I don't want this thread sidetracked due to the experiences that I have shared that got me to where I was.)
threebyfate Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 You yourself are one of the rare women on this forum who truly was a victim in her first marriage. Most threads are by married women chasing after married men yet they are treated as victims.I can't remember all the usernames since I've almost stopped reading the Infidelity and OW/OM forum but there are enough female members who were/are betrayed spouses. I don't see myself as a victim. Just someone who had infidelity inflicted on her, who took her own back, when it came to light. But... Without the ex and subsequent events afterwards, I wouldn't now be with my wonderful husband, expecting our baby! I cannot regret one second of the past three years.
Author Woggle Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 I must say that amongst the sea of drama addicts, unrepentent maneaters and misandrists there are a few women on here that help to restore my faith that some trustworthy women do exist. Today I had the chance to snoop on my wife since she left her computer on while visiting a friend and I decided not to do it. My wife has never in the past cheated on a man and when she was mistreated she walked away right there so maybe I did find a good woman. I know that I would never in a million years put up with what I did the last 6 months of my first marriage but so far it has not happened yet and I doubt my current wife would ever do that. She is not as easily led as my ex was.
Author Woggle Posted January 28, 2010 Author Posted January 28, 2010 I don't know if they are the majority but they are a large percentage and the number is growing and growing. Even if I never read these boards I know so many people who fit this description it is not funny. I can count the number of happy relationships I know on one hand but I need a lot of hands to count the miserable ones and most of the time it involves a man who loves a woman the way I loved my ex while she couldn't care less. One of my coworkers who is cheating said that her man would die for her and she wishes he would because then she could get the life insurance. I think this is an example of how most women deep down feel about their men.
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