Holding-On Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 I'm seeing a very great recurrence of "we have been married x years and we have sex 1x/month (or less!)". There are at least 7 threads on this page alone. It is really quite depressing. Is it Loveshack? Is the married/partnered forum the internet meeting place/ support group for the underserviced set? (I'm leaning toward this explanation personally, I think James has been spamming the e-mail lists ) Is it monogamy? Disclaimer Polyamory has a LOT of issues. A lot. Our forums are quite full. So I am NOT holding it as superior to monogamy for anyone but me and my crazy heathen brethren. However, I cannot recall having seen a poly thread that read "not having sex, help" or it's equivalent. [there is, hey, I'm not getting sex exactly when I would like it but there ain't any "I'm getting sex 12x a year" threads iykwim] It is not a problem I have encountered with the long term partnered poly folk I know personally. (and we are waaay tmi ) Monogamous folks - explain this to me!! What gives? Where's the Please try to keep it upbeat... I have 3 more months of darkness to contend with still.
crazycatlady Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 I can't help ya. Our sex life sucked until we opened it up. We still sometimes get caught up in every day life which slows it down and leads to problems or problems lead to no sex, not sure which is which which actually led to an A on H's part. And yes I know ethical polyamory should be honest and upfront, but it was my sister and I think i was better off being left out of that loop, he should have covered his tracks better and acted like nothing was wrong . Instead he was conflicted because he cares for us both. Its not full proof, but sex does tend to be better. But I do have some theories about why poly might bring out the sexual side of people.... CCL
angie2443 Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Many, many people can't make a relationship work. When the relationship turns to crap, so does the sex. It's that simple. The people (and it requires both people in a relationship) who know how to upkeep a relationship, can usually keep a healthy sex life going. As far as the poly thing, well, the married partners are having sex with other people. It doesn't matter if their marriage is fine or not, they'll still get sex. From what I've seen, poyamnory is often a way to move into another relationship without ever having to be single. As long as they're open and honest with all involved, then I say go for it.
mem11363 Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Unfortunately many/most of the men come here because they are unhappy/sexually frustrated. A smaller number come because they are curious/wannabe therapists (I am probably half curious/half wannabe therapist). I do think that in the "average" monogamous long term marriage the partners take each other for granted and stop making a special effort to please each other. For the typical man (higher drive) this often results in a very poor sexual relationship. Interestingly there seems to be "some" inverse correlation regarding income. When the wife of a higher income male has totally lost her desire for her husband, the financial security she gets from the marriage is often the tipping point causing her to stay with him. This is ugly in many different ways. First and foremost she rarely admits they she is sexually averse to him. Usually she just avoids/lies/avoids/lies some more - making up excuses for why "not". When pressed she denies there is a problem and pushed harder attacks him and tells him he is "mean/pushy/unhelpful/bad husband ...". Very toxic. In reality she is simply sexually averse to him AND violently opposed to him having sex with anyone else as this might cause an emotional attachment that could end her ride on the gravy train. As for the women with husbands who won't have sex with them - that is just as sad and those men are every bit as deceitful about their lack of desire. I personally think a mono marriage where the partners put each other first is the best possible situation - but hey I am biased because that IS my situation. I'm seeing a very great recurrence of "we have been married x years and we have sex 1x/month (or less!)". There are at least 7 threads on this page alone. It is really quite depressing. Is it Loveshack? Is the married/partnered forum the internet meeting place/ support group for the underserviced set? (I'm leaning toward this explanation personally, I think James has been spamming the e-mail lists ) Is it monogamy? Disclaimer Polyamory has a LOT of issues. A lot. Our forums are quite full. So I am NOT holding it as superior to monogamy for anyone but me and my crazy heathen brethren. However, I cannot recall having seen a poly thread that read "not having sex, help" or it's equivalent. [there is, hey, I'm not getting sex exactly when I would like it but there ain't any "I'm getting sex 12x a year" threads iykwim] It is not a problem I have encountered with the long term partnered poly folk I know personally. (and we are waaay tmi ) Monogamous folks - explain this to me!! What gives? Where's the Please try to keep it upbeat... I have 3 more months of darkness to contend with still.
threebyfate Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 LS is not a microcosm of the real world, in that it's skewed towards relationships that are or have had serious problems. As far as sex is concerned, you don't give it and aren't entitled to it. It's no more or less than giving/getting respect within a marriage. If spouses aren't having sex or don't respect each other, there are far more issues, than solely the sex or respect, unless one spouse has always found sex distasteful or has never respected their partner.
She's_NotInLove_w/Me Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 I am certainly not blind to all of the threads here and the commonality of 'sexless marriages' in America today... however, I will still maintain that a healthy monogamous relationship is the most common method of having sex on a regular basis. Marriage is the toughest relationship for an individual to maintain; and with the hard work involved, the rewards do often follow, in so many ways. Great sex is USUALLY one of them. It is not a given though, it is created in such a way that desire is built between both partners to connect in that way on a regular basis... I actually believe that polygamy, if practiced within certain guidelines can work in a great number of ways. I know that sounds weird, but really, it is culture that defines us to pairing off and remaining monogamous and having a limited number of children. I do believe however that the risks of failure are much higher in a polyamorous relationship. I guess one could easily say "define failure." That's a whole other topic. To me 'success' has nothing to do with how often I am sexually active. In my 17 year relationship there have been times when (on a scale of one to ten), the sex was as high as a 9; other times our sex life seemed like a 3. Frequency has some significance in that number; but there are so many other factors. Barring some genuine illness or life issue, I cannot see myself in a sexless marriage; no sex = no marriage. Staying in a marriage without intimacy and regular sexual activity would be akin to doing time in prison for me...
Lizzie60 Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 monogamy does not = to bed death monotony does... and I think it's quite normal... NOT one single couple can brag that they kept their sex life 'hot and steamy' for 20+ years.. work, kids, stress, life in general.. make it impossible to live in 'honeymoon' mode for years... Most women just adjust normally... because they have other things in life that fulfill them (kids, family, friends, home, etc.) but most men don't .. therefore cheat..
angie2443 Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 LS is not a microcosm of the real world, in that it's skewed towards relationships that are or have had serious problems. As far as sex is concerned, you don't give it and aren't entitled to it. It's no more or less than giving/getting respect within a marriage. If spouses aren't having sex or don't respect each other, there are far more issues, than solely the sex or respect, unless one spouse has always found sex distasteful or has never respected their partner. I agree with this. I think many people in sexless marriages don't want to acknowledge that there are other problems besides lack of sex in the marriage because then it becomes very complicated and daunting. It's easier to think that the only problem is lack of one thing (sex).
angie2443 Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Most women just adjust normally... because they have other things in life that fulfill them (kids, family, friends, home, etc.) but most men don't .. therefore cheat.. Are you saying that men are not fulfilled by kids, etc., while women are fulfilled so much with these things that they don't want sex?
threebyfate Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 I agree with this. I think many people in sexless marriages don't want to acknowledge that there are other problems besides lack of sex in the marriage because then it becomes very complicated and daunting. It's easier to think that the only problem is lack of one thing (sex).Sex is one of those strange things, that people use to empower themselves, whether it's the person refusing or the person insisting. If you consider the animal kingdom and also, human beings, sex can be used in a dominating way, to create hierarchy. We humans have taken this to the ultimate level of silliness. We tie it into our self-esteem. You'll find people believing that sex is everything, that without people finding them sexually attractive, they're nothing. It's sad indeed.
Lizzie60 Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Are you saying that men are not fulfilled by kids, etc., while women are fulfilled so much with these things that they don't want sex? NO.. I didn't say that men aren't fulfilled by their kids... far from that.. but .. women have always and still do a lot MORE in a household... (and that is besides their day job)... and this is not going to change anytime soon... so they have way more stuff on their minds.. therefore they don't think about sex as much.. and sex becomes less and less important as the 'responsibities' of the M grow.. (kids, house, mortgage, bills, etc..)... I also think that it's a biological thing as well... testosterone vs estrogen..
angie2443 Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 so they have way more stuff on their minds.. therefore they don't think about sex as much.. and sex becomes less and less important as the 'responsibities' of the M grow.. (kids, house, mortgage, bills, etc..)... I also think that it's a biological thing as well... testosterone vs estrogen.. Now I understand where you're comming from.
grogster Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Sex is one of those strange things, that people use to empower themselves, whether it's the person refusing or the person insisting. If you consider the animal kingdom and also, human beings, sex can be used in a dominating way, to create hierarchy. We humans have taken this to the ultimate level of silliness. We tie it into our self-esteem. You'll find people believing that sex is everything, that without people finding them sexually attractive, they're nothing. It's sad indeed. I agree. I'm happily in a post-relationship phase, live alone and haven't dated for almost 2 years. My work, my kids and my hobbies sustain me, not my zipper. It's refreshing to no longer be enslaved to one's Id.
threebyfate Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 I agree. I'm happily in a post-relationship phase, live alone and haven't dated for almost 2 years. My work, my kids and my hobbies sustain me, not my zipper. It's refreshing to no longer be enslaved to one's Id.It's come out in your posting, in the past couple of years. More of a thinking man, viewing scenarios in a more balanced fashion, uncluttered by the angst displayed by many. And yes, that's a compliment.
JamesM Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Is it Loveshack? Is the married/partnered forum the internet meeting place/ support group for the underserviced set? (I'm leaning toward this explanation personally, I think James has been spamming the e-mail lists ) Is it monogamy? Since my name is mentioned, then by all means I must respond. I think forums such as this do attract people with problems as has been mentioned. Personally, if I had always had a marriage with enough sex, then I never would have searched for answers...which led me to LS. And yes, I have spent hours dragging everyone I could to LS. Not. And lastly, I do not believe monogamy equals monotony nor the death of sex. In my case, I know that a certain amount of sex balanced between feast and famine, would keep things enjoyable. Too little keeps me frustrated. Too much would cause boredom. As far as sex is concerned, you don't give it and aren't entitled to it. It's no more or less than giving/getting respect within a marriage. If spouses aren't having sex or don't respect each other, there are far more issues, than solely the sex or respect, unless one spouse has always found sex distasteful or has never respected their partner. As usual, I agree with what you have said. I find it worth quoting for the second or third time. I changed the bolding to reflect something I would like to add. The problem is when there is an issue and it is not communicated to the other person. As time goes on, I am beginning to think this is the case in my situation. I accept that there may be issues that are causing the lack of sex, but without being informed of what they are, nothing will change. And as I said before, yes, I have accepted that I can only change me and not her. If she chooses not to change or explain why she feels as she does, then we can not move forward. What happens next remains to be seen. I think many people in sexless marriages don't want to acknowledge that there are other problems besides lack of sex in the marriage because then it becomes very complicated and daunting. It's easier to think that the only problem is lack of one thing (sex). Yes and no. It takes two to fix this sort of problem, I have learned. It takes two to acknowledge that there is a problem. So if I am told that there is no problem..."it is me, not you," then that is all I can fix...except I cannot fix her. Yet as you say, this keeps the real problem undercover or in denial. Sex is one of those strange things, that people use to empower themselves, whether it's the person refusing or the person insisting. Ba da bing. And that is what I read in so many situations here on LS. From the man (like me) who is kept at bay and rejected physically as a way to keep him trying to meet standards for sexual privileges to the overweight woman (as determined by her husband) motivated to lose weight (for the benefit of the husband) to gain sexual privileges to the woman who withholds sex to keep the feeling of control over a perceived dominating husband....yes, it may be more about power than many of us would ever admit.
grogster Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 It's come out in your posting, in the past couple of years. More of a thinking man, viewing scenarios in a more balanced fashion, uncluttered by the angst displayed by many. And yes, that's a compliment. Very perceptive. I guess, for some, our posts can be windows through which others can peer.
SimplyBeingLoved Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Sex is a critical reflection of the relationship as a whole. Long-term monogamy can be very difficult. I think it's a combination of: 1) "Till Death Do Us Part" being extremely difficult to uphold. I will admit: I am monogamous, but I don't believe in the marriage should necessarily be a forever thing. I think people change, and grow, mature, or regress, in myriad ways after many years of marriage (over 10). I think MOST relationships have a shelf life. That may sound very cynical, but I don't mean it that way... really....I am not a cynical person. Personally, I think marriages should have 5-year renewal contracts. That would serve two purposes. It would prevent people from taking their spouse for granted (the death knell of many relationships) and secondly, if a couple chose NOT to renew the contract, it need not be seen as "FAILURE." More just a natural ending... give some grace and dignity to the natural conclusion of a relationship. 2) Whether or not there is truly a good match and sexual chemistry to start with. I think to be honest, that is the key. Having a good solid connection between partners... a deep love and enduring sexual attraction. I don't think this is easy to find. It does happen but most people marry for other reasons. Without this the shelf life of the marriage will be fairly short. With it, the relationship CAN last a lifetime... if the basic bond is strong to begin with. I know a couple who are in love now as they were when they met twenty years ago. The wife says her husband still gives her butterflies. It's THAT kind of connection. I think MEM11363 has that with his wife. Perhaps only 1 in 5, or even 1 in 10 marriages have that... I don't know but I suspect the percentage is low. 3) Maturity of partners. This is really key. There can be a great bond (as mentioned above) but both partners need to know how to maintain and nurture the relationship. If there is a real solid bond it will be intrinsically fulfilling to keep it going. However if both are young and/or immature it may take lots of trial and error to keep the immaturity and/or emotional baggage from damaging the relationship. Not having a naturally strong bond, and on top of this, immaturity or difficult personality traits (e.g. passive-aggressiveness, or addiction, etc.)... and the marriage, well.. I doubt it will thrive, and the sex life will be the first thing to go.
LucreziaBorgia Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Then there is always the unhappy reality that some people simply do not want or need sex as much as other people - if at all - once the relationship is established.
mem11363 Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Lizzie, A guy totally covers the financial side of things - wife doesn't have to work - AND doesn't have to stress about bills - totally different then the picture you paint. We almost never fought about money and you know what - my money job and her home job were about equal in effort so no resentment there. And then she is part geisha girl by nature..... Still we just passed the 20 year mark and things are definitely starting to slow down. MY desire level is a lot lower in the last year which is convenient as hers is as well. Still if either one of us says - strip - the other starts peeling clothes NO.. I didn't say that men aren't fulfilled by their kids... far from that.. but .. women have always and still do a lot MORE in a household... (and that is besides their day job)... and this is not going to change anytime soon... so they have way more stuff on their minds.. therefore they don't think about sex as much.. and sex becomes less and less important as the 'responsibities' of the M grow.. (kids, house, mortgage, bills, etc..)... I also think that it's a biological thing as well... testosterone vs estrogen..
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