Ten years after - flashbacks. When will it end?

[SleepingDog]

My wife had a six month affair while I was away on business - ten years ago. It was a soul destroying experience. I was shattered, needed therapy, and slowly crawled out of the pit. We decided to to stay together. In the meantime we have had a child, who is the light of my life.

 

Recently, I have been having flashbacks. While I have never forgotten the affair, and it would cross my mind regurlarly, now my emotions are almost as powerful as ten years ago. It has been brought up by a number of things; like OM suddenly appearing as a Facebook friend suggestion because we have mutual friends (some of them don't know about the A). Or the far too friendly emails from a highschool boyfriend prior to a reunion my wife received. While she openly shows me the emails, the way she shrugs off my objections are all too familiar of the way she shrugged of my suspicions about OM when the affair just started.

 

All the same thoughts go through my head: I could have stopped it. I suspected this guy had an interest in my wife and I know he would have run off if I had told him not to mess with her. But I didn;t and it still bothers me, What and when did they do it? How did it go long for? Etc etc etc

 

I suppose our marriage has only partially recovered. It has been a very long, very difficult ride. It has affected my career and self esteem. Though I love her, I don't trust her, and at times been suspecting her of having a fling - all the warning signs were there, but I had no proof. I still detest OM - who knew me - though, until last week, it was not on the level of pure physical rage there was ten years ago. Added, however, to the emotions is an intense anger towards my wife that wasn't there when I found out about the affair. I received some sort of closure regarding the OM because I took revenge on him by exposing the affair to his family and friends at an embarassing moment, as a result of which he apologised to me. This fulfilled a need because up to then he had pretended I did not exist. Though I certainly blamed my wife, was heartbroken and dissapointed, and felt al sorts of conflicting emotions, rage wasn't one of them.

 

Now it is, in part because of the many petty arguments, and verbal abuse she has come up with. There are long times when there is not a day without an argument or row - not always a big one, but some nasty exchange of words is always on the programme. In return for her thinly veiled abuse ('I wish you were more like your father' or 'you are exactly like your father') I have started calling her names a couple of years ago, as I simply feel I have no other line of defense left in an argument, no other way to stop the relentles flow of pettiness and spite that she can come up with. Once this even got physical - she grabbed me and I slapped her arm in return. Before the affair we had arguments about petty things, but I never got so furious, and I think my anger is finally catching up with me. I don't know how to deal with it.

 

Also new is the sexual jealousy not of OM but of my wife: she got to have her fun for six months and let herself go in what was clearly a passionate affair, whereas I resisted all tempation. And there were offers, which I used to show my wife that, yes, it IS possible to resist temptation. Hey, I would like some exhiliarating fling too!

 

I find myself wondering: did I stay with her for the right reasons? I know I thought loved her at the time, but now I think, was that just the idea of us?

I know it was a mix of emotions. I also did not want OM to 'win' by destroying our marriage. I felt that would justify the affair for him ('the marriage was bad anyway) and meant he could walk away without recognising the damage he had helped cause. Somehow this was important to me them. I did not want to kick her out of the house because I did not want her to go running to him, and I was also afraid that I would not be able to cope, that I needed her for my recovery even though she had betrayed me. Yet when one counsellor suggested the idea of splitting up but I dismissed it out of hand, I felt almost insulted.

 

I am now thinking what if? There were no material reasons not to divorce back then. We didn't have money, property or children. I was still young and attractive. There were several women around I could have hit it off with, that I know liked me. Who would I have ended up with? Would that have improved my recovery or would I merely have blown up that relationship with ballast from the old? Would this new woman have made me happy, or would their merely have been new problems, new issues. I see several friends in the same boat who dumped their partner and now seem very happy in their new lives. I am now ten years and 15 kilo's older and see my opportunities dwindling. Why am I persisting in what is at time a hell of a marriage? . Am I denying myself a chance of happiness for the last 20-30 years of my life? I should think of my daughter, but surely she is better with us divorced than in a relationship full of constant conflict.

 

This cloud does have a silver lining. Our sex life, which was fine before the affair, first deteriorated badly, and we ended up having sex only once a month or even less at times (though there have always, and this is not a pun, been periods with ups and downs) for several years. Now I find myself giddy with hormones. I even told my wife 'I think I am falling in love with you again', and my own sexual interest in her has increased suddenly fantastically, with us having sex again on a daily basis. While it is also very good sex, almost pre-affair sex, I cannot help but thinking 'she also did this with him', 'what else did they do'.

 

I am really still very upset at her that she tainted our relationship that I still have this man in my bed/head after 10 years.

 

So, glad to get this off my chest for a bit. Any advice or comments would be welcome.

[mixedupone]

I'm sorry for your pain. You've been through the through the wringer. Maybe some therapy could help - both individual and couples.

 

 

My wife is currently reaching out to someone to start an EA for the 2nd time. I've been undecided whether to confront her or see where it goes. After reading you're thread I've definitely decided to confront her

[Bryanp]

I may be wrong but reading your letter it sounds like she never gave you all of the information that you wanted to know about the affair which has been a big problem for you. It is difficult to forget that a spouse had no problem lying and cheating on you for 6 months for putting your health at risk for STD's. I guess my question is why did you wish to recover? Was she totally remorseful? Clearly she did not answer all of your question which became a cancer to you. It is better late than never but you deserve to have all of the questions you have for your wife answered.

[unreadbook]

#1)

My wife had a six month affair while I was away on business - ten years ago. It was a soul destroying experience. I was shattered, needed therapy.

 

#2)Recently, I have been having flashbacks. While I have never forgotten the affair, and it would cross my mind regurlarly, now my emotions are almost as powerful as ten years ago..... it still bothers me, What and when did they do it? How did it go long for? Etc etc etc....

 

#3) I suppose our marriage has only partially recovered. It has affected my career and self esteem..... I don't trust her and at times been suspecting her of having a fling.

 

#4)There are long times when there is not a day without an argument or row - not always a big one, but some nasty exchange of words is always on the programme. I never got so furious, and I think my anger is finally catching up with me. I don't know how to deal with it.

 

#5) jealousy not of OM but of my wife

 

#6)I find myself wondering: did I stay with her for the right reasons? I needed her for my recovery even though she had betrayed me.

 

#7)I am now thinking what if? Who would I have ended up with? Would this new woman have made me happy? Am I denying myself a chance of happiness for the last 20-30 years of my life? I am really still very upset at her that she tainted our relationship that I still have this man in my bed/head after 10 years. QUOTE]

 

Those are all powerful quotes from you my friend...which in my opinion means you should do yourself a favor and move on, because we only live once (that we are aware of) and no one should compromise their true happiness. You are NOT happy with her but the 'idea of her' ...of what you once had. But facts are she cheated, and despite the 'ups and downs' STILL can't speak with you honestly and openly and to me it means she does not respect you.

 

I think what is holding you back is the fear of the unknown, and the sadness of letting go of the 'idea of what could be' w/ your wife, knowing that you will inevidably be alone for a while...but is it better to be alone or to be with some one and feel alone? You need to realize weather you want to keep chaseing the idea of what once was with her- and live forever with images and reminders of the heart break....or is it worth spinning the jeaopary dial of life one more time.... the fear is in nowing that if you do divorce it will get bitterly worse before it gets better- thus making it easy to just sit and complain rather than make a drastic change.

 

some would say that you need to 'get over it', but no one should have to. You seem like you are the kind who strives for a real soul mate connection in another- and by all rights you should. If you are not getting those feelings reciprocated you are jipping yourself. There is a difference between love and lust. It sounds liek the lust may be there off and on, and perhaps the love peeks now and then...but seriously, it should be 90%...not 50/50 or 20/80....if you know what I mean. You should never question your 'love' more than half the time...if you are its time to move on. Children are not an excuse to stay...they see and absorb more than you know...to give them a healthy view on relationships it does not mean to suffer with someone...it means to show them how to stand up for what you feel, what is in your heart, and to know when to bend and when to stand up for your personal respect. AS long as you child is loved and you discuss your dicision with them openly- they will in the end(as adults) respect you and learn from you. They do not have to live long term with your decision- YOU do...dont pass your life by....

[Jeff1962]

Sleepingdog. I had a response in mind but then the last part of your post confused the hell out of me. Now you are giddy with her and falling in love again. Well, then go for it I guess. Seek counseling.

[SleepingDog]

Thanks for your answers.

 

"But facts are she cheated, and despite the 'ups and downs' STILL can't speak with you honestly and openly and to me it means she does not respect you. "

 

" I guess my question is why did you wish to recover? Was she totally remorseful? Clearly she did not answer all of your question which became a cancer to you. It is better late than never but you deserve to have all of the questions you have for your wife answered."

 

I am not sure I wish for the marriage to recover now, but I sure would like to get out of my personal hell. As I have no guarantuee it will be any better outside a relationship and we may have chance of rebuilding what we had I am staying in. But it has taken 10 years now and I doubt 10 more years will change anything.

 

Once I had caught her, she seemed honest and willing to answer all my questions. I asked very intimate ones about their sexual relationship - mainly in order to destroy THEIR trust in each other. She answered them all. But I still don't know how many times they slept together - countless times,

because he was practically staying in our house while I was gone. I also cannot be sure she answered them all truthfully. Maybe it is just my sickly lack of trust caused by her betrayal that is the problem now. Sometimes I see danger signals - but these do not HAVE to be true. Recently she said "I answered most of your questions" - a slip of the tongue? Am I just paranoid? I am afraid to breach the topic now because she feels we should move on. I know that is s standard WS opinion, but after 10 years, she has a point.

 

"Sleepingdog. I had a response in mind but then the last part of your post confused the hell out of me. Now you are giddy with her and falling in love again. Well, then go for it I guess. Seek counseling."

 

YOU are confused? I may be rationalising this too much, but I think it is an instictive, hormonal or psychological reaction to the 'flashbacks'. Immediately after D-Day my sex drive also increased because of the affair (and then also, I hadn't seen her for six months...).

 

I'd just like to know if there is anyone who really has moved on and feels on top of the world after ten years. I have been told I have a very sensitive, inward looking personality which may be why I take this worse than others, and just keep on obsessing about the affair.

[road]

How did you find out about the affair?

 

Has your WW been willing to answer your questions about the affair?

 

There must NC between Your family and the OM. If it means dropping friends in common then you must do so.

[SleepingDog]

"How did you find out about the affair?"

 

She always told me over the phone who she was meeting for drinks. I told her it was inappropriate for her to go out with a guy as if on a date. It made me suspicious. Other danger signals: she did not want to kiss me in bed any more, suggested sexual positions that weren;t in our standard repertoire anymore, changed her password to her email, the phone was occupied at strange times of the day. I confronted her with my suspicions after my return ans she confessed to a 'one night stand' with a ' stranger'. I then used key stroke logging software to find out her password, and discovered emails between her and a colleague of mine. The itemised phone bill also betrayed lots of phone calls to this person.

 

"Has your WW been willing to answer your questions about the affair?"

 

Yes, into great detail. She answered my obsessive questions about sexual positions, places they had sex with brutal honesty - to me it did not matter as I was seeing these vivid images in my head anyway. I did this to destroy the intimacy between them. My only worry is that she may have left some answers out.

 

"There must NC between Your family and the OM. If it means dropping friends in common then you must do so."

 

Bear in mind this happened 10 years ago. As far as I know she made one or two calls straight after D-Day and told him not to contact her. Like the spineless creep he was he backed off immediately. I do know however, that she only really started rejecting him once she found out that he had been lying to her as well. There is no contact since then. Only now he is Facebook friends with some of my friends from back then, not all of whom, as far as I know, know about the affair. I kept it secret at the time.

[MadMission]

SD,

 

I don't think you will find many couples, who have been happily reconciled for 10 yrs, frequenting infideltiy forums.

 

What you will find are plenty of posts from BS who have chosen to stay in the M, but continue to struggle for months and even many years later.

I have read MANY posts written by BS who 'think' they are R, yet they remain troubled.

 

You are 10 years out, and you still do not trust your W. Trust is such a basic, fundamental, core part of any relationship. And, without it, what do you have??

BTW, faithfullness is another basic, fundamental given in a M...and that is blown, too. Not good. Your M is missing at least a couple of vital blocks to it's foundation.

 

It does not help that your W has ANYTHING negative to say to you or about you with her ugly infidelity contribution as the backdrop to your life 'together.'

How dare she? If she were truely remorseful, she would appreciate you everyday...that you LET her stay...and you would know it by her consistant care, kindness, and respect.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you are experiencing another wave of anger and resentment over the fact that she got away with it. Cause...she did.

She enjoyed her A...suffered through the initial emotional impact on you, but really, nothing's really changed for her....no real consequences. Life is good for her.

 

How does that leave you feeling? Angry...over being wronged. Mad at yourself for letting her get away with it. And, struggling to find your self-respect and dignity in all this...cause you question if you have any.

 

And, then there's the second-guessing...and the wondering. You will never know how your life would have played out had you divorced her.

Maybe you would be in an enduring relationship with a good woman right now...who is genuine, honest, loyal, etc...who would't dream of ever cheating on you. Someone who truely cherishes you.

But, instead, you've spent the last 10 yrs with a woman who made a 'statement' to you 10 yrs ago: "I don't love, care about, or cherish you. You are not the only one. Not special. You are unimportant and replacable. You and your feelings do not matter to me. Etc"

And, it must feel like you have compromised yourself tremendously to accept this from YOUR WIFE.

 

Affairs are HUGE and VERY DIFFICULT to incorporate into a M.

The fact that you remain troubled is not surprising. It may be mostly a symptom of your W only weakly contributing to your healing and the healing of the M after her infidelity. Maybe she's been only luke-warm in her willingness and enthusiasm to make things right and to provide heaping doses of assurance and affirmation. Often times, it is not the A itself, but the ways in which the WS mis-manages the aftermath, which are the demise of the M...years down the road.

[SleepingDog]

Gosh MadMission, you got my anger down to a tick there, what's your story?

 

You know, I am furious. I realised today her interest in the OM started years before the A: at a party he drunkenly smacked her on the lips, sticking his tongue inside. She told me about it right that evening: she had been too stunned to move, nothing further happened then ( I was in another room). I thought nothing of it, because I trusted her. Indeed, I met OM a day later and I thought about warning him. But I didn't, I thought 'he was just drunk'.

 

What a fool I was.

 

I was never sure what to believe about this story (did she kiss him back?), until yEars later, after the affair, at some party, I was talking to some girl - in the middle of a full room - until without any provocation or warning, she kissed me full on. I gently pulled away and said: I am sorry, I am married, and went home.

 

(I was flattered, though;) )

 

I am not sure what to wish now: that my wife had moral fibre, or that I had none.

[MadMission]

Hi SD,

 

Never regret WHO you are...your character, morals, integrity, etc. Stay true to yourself.

If you are an honorable, honest, loyal person...then you are gold.

There are plenty of 'cheap' people out there who have no morals, no depth, etc. Be glad you are not one of them.

I am not saying that you are any 'better' than them because they likely have 'reasons' for why they are the way they are... are 'broken,' but just be glad that you are WHO you are.

 

My story: I am 5 yrs out. Was totally blindsided on d-day. Tried my heart out to R with my H as I loved him so so much and wanted nothing more than a restored M with him. But, he did not want the same thing, which I eventually figured out the very long, hard way. By about 2 yrs out, I began to seriously plan for D by researching and educating myself on how to best manage D with the kids' best interest in mind. And, what I learned was that it is in the best interest of the kids for mom and dad to stay together as long as there is no tension, fighting, etc. This was/is the case with WH and I. We get along well and are very good parents together. So, I decided to stay...for now....at least until my kids are launched. I accepted that my M relationship was over and that my H was 'gone.' I 'forced' myself to emotionally detach from him so that I could stay...minus all the associated pain. It is smooth sailing right now. We remain good partners in co-parenting the kids, but there is no M relationship.

That's it in a nutshell!

[Snowflower]

Hi SD,

 

 

 

My story: I am 5 yrs out. Was totally blindsided on d-day. Tried my heart out to R with my H as I loved him so so much and wanted nothing more than a restored M with him. But, he did not want the same thing, which I eventually figured out the very long, hard way. By about 2 yrs out, I began to seriously plan for D by researching and educating myself on how to best manage D with the kids' best interest in mind. And, what I learned was that it is in the best interest of the kids for mom and dad to stay together as long as there is no tension, fighting, etc. This was/is the case with WH and I. We get along well and are very good parents together. So, I decided to stay...for now....at least until my kids are launched. I accepted that my M relationship was over and that my H was 'gone.' I 'forced' myself to emotionally detach from him so that I could stay...minus all the associated pain. It is smooth sailing right now. We remain good partners in co-parenting the kids, but there is no M relationship.

That's it in a nutshell!

 

Hey, MM...I remember your story from previous posts. I know you've said you are good with what happened to your marriage but I still feel very badly for you. From some reason...your story sticks with me. I think I could have been you in just slightly different circumstances than what I had. It makes me sad but again, at least I know I could have mostly likely done what you did if I had to.

 

I wish you much eventual happiness, MM, as you certainly deserve it!

 

Sorry for the t/J, Sleeping Dog. I sincerely hope that you will eventually find the resolution that will bring you peace and happiness.

 

The truth is, it is very hard, probably the hardest thing you could ever do to try to recover a marriage after infidelity. I know it's the hardest thing I will likely ever do and I have a husband who was completely remorseful and continues to put 110% or more into our relationship. Even with this, it's still difficult for me.

 

I don't know what to advise you...10 years is a long time for you to feel this pain. But, I know that each person/marriage is different and the answer about what you should do about the future of your marriage lies within you. No one else can tell you what you should do--it's easy to tell someone to get a divorce--it's quite another to have to actually do it yourself.

 

Here is a slightly different way perhaps for you to look at this painful situation that has worked for me. Rather than regret the pain of the past 10 years and wonder if you should have done something different, instead what good has come out of it? I think you said you and your wife had a child in the ensuing years? All very good, if you had divorced her 10 years ago, that child would never have been born, correct? Children are a blessing.

 

Also, have there been a good times, happy moments in the years since? What has this painful experience taught you? Someone told me soon after I found out about my H's affair that I would learn more about myself through this process. At first I thought this was a load of cr*p but I figured out that it is true. I learned some invaluable lessons about myself, relationships and life in general and not all bad lessons either. I'm a stronger, more compassionate person than I ever was before and have a new depth to me that only intense pain can bring.

 

Who knows what you should have really done 10 years ago but just like everything else, you can't change it and who can really predict how the alternative would have turned out.

 

Good luck to you, SD.

[OFGnomore]

Hi SD,

 

Never regret WHO you are...your character, morals, integrity, etc. Stay true to yourself.

If you are an honorable, honest, loyal person...then you are gold.

There are plenty of 'cheap' people out there who have no morals, no depth, etc. Be glad you are not one of them.

I am not saying that you are any 'better' than them because they likely have 'reasons' for why they are the way they are... are 'broken,' but just be glad that you are WHO you are.

 

My story: I am 5 yrs out. Was totally blindsided on d-day. Tried my heart out to R with my H as I loved him so so much and wanted nothing more than a restored M with him. But, he did not want the same thing, which I eventually figured out the very long, hard way. By about 2 yrs out, I began to seriously plan for D by researching and educating myself on how to best manage D with the kids' best interest in mind. And, what I learned was that it is in the best interest of the kids for mom and dad to stay together as long as there is no tension, fighting, etc. This was/is the case with WH and I. We get along well and are very good parents together. So, I decided to stay...for now....at least until my kids are launched. I accepted that my M relationship was over and that my H was 'gone.' I 'forced' myself to emotionally detach from him so that I could stay...minus all the associated pain. It is smooth sailing right now. We remain good partners in co-parenting the kids, but there is no M relationship.

That's it in a nutshell!

 

Does H know your intention? Or did he forfeit your honesty when he cheated on you? Are you going to find someone as well in the meantime? I'm wondering how long someone could stay emotionally detached in an M just for the kids. I couldn't. And I'm not judging you.

[Buttnutter100]

Sleeping Dog:

 

Did you go on high alert because something triggered it?

 

What is your gut telling you?

 

What is going on right now?

[wheream_i]

I'd just like to know if there is anyone who really has moved on and feels on top of the world after ten years. I have been told I have a very sensitive, inward looking personality which may be why I take this worse than others, and just keep on obsessing about the affair.

 

 

I really hate to sound so pessimistic but it's threads like this that make me realize that, me being the cheater, think that a relationship can never fully recover after D-Day. Even with complete transparency and counseling. I really need to clean up my act.

 

And I'm sorry about your situation. If you have your doubts, I would have to say move on. Like someone else said, life is too short and there ain't nobody here getting any younger.

[SleepingDog]

"Did you go on high alert because something triggered it? What is your gut telling you? What is going on right now?"

 

See my other post about FB: 1. facebook gave me as advice to add OM as a friend... I saw he is FB "friends" with 10 people I really care about. It hurts my guts and really put me back in Hell. But I am positive there is still NC.

 

2. this tearing open of this wound was compounded by an xBF who contacted my W. I have her password. He seems keen to rekindle feelings in himself, she is more standoffish. Apparantly, they had a fling the year we got together, and I am worried there is an overlap, but the date is unclear. However, at the time we had made no commitments and we were both seeing

other people, hell , we were young and dumb.

 

They email quite a bit now, and even though it is innocent and the xBF is doing the chasing -if any-, I think she should discourage him. I don't honestly think this will really develop into anything, but the main issue is that it tears open old wounds. It puts me back into PI-mode and make me haunt these forums again - which I haven't done in years. My wife should respect that and for this reason alone stop encouraging him. I think she doing this by responding ever more slowly to his emails...

 

Thanks snowflower. You are right at pointing at the bright side. Of course, there have been positive developments and the child is one of them. But ironically, had the affair not happened, I think we would have had 2 or 3 by now. Our marriage is full of conflict, but we both realise we have clashing personalities. My anger about the affair that I am now directing against my wife worsens these. Perhaps that is just a fase I need to to through.

This is probably the first time in 6 years or so that I visit these boards, so that may be an indication.

 

Sorry MM, your position is very unenviable. You are not doing yourself justice. You deserve love and affection. I know couples who have great divorces: they live close together, coordinate their lives together, see each other often, respect each other but don't love each other, much like you and your husband, except in their case they then each go to their own houses and new spouses after the party is over. Couldn't such a set up work for you?

 

After all, now you have a divorce all but in name.

[Buttnutter100]

Frankly it sounds as if your wife is getting a bit restless again.

 

She should not be having any contact with the xBF, at all.

 

The ex-affair partner coming onto the scene is suspicious as well.

 

Your concern is justified and is not simply bad memories from ten years ago. It is a reaction to what is going on in your relationship right now, in the present.

 

There are probably other issues as well that concern you. Maybe comments she makes that don't strike you as completely "right." Maybe looks or facial expressions, to you, to other men.

 

It can be a very subtle thing. But clearly something is "off."

 

And you know that.

[MadMission]

"I still feel very badly for you"

 

Hi Snowflower,

Don't feel bad for me at all. I am doing exactly what I want to do. Of course this is not what I envisioned for myself, my WH, or M.

I have chosen the least bad choice of the bad choices I had available to me. I am living in the reality of my HW and M. He is 'gone' and the M is over. There is nothing I could have done or can do about that. Except face it and accept it, and then adjust my mind and heart accordingly.

I am in a very good place now emotionally. I am no longer entanged with my H. But, we do live in the same house, managing it together, and are good parents together to our kids. I am good.

 

"You are not doing yourself justice. You deserve love and affection"

 

SD,

I am doing myself justice because I am honoring my priorities and what is of the utmost importance to me...and that is my 3 children. You are right, I do not have the love and affection I desire. But, it's not all about ME. There are 3 other people involved. I am only ONE out of 4. And, I am not willing to risk or trade their well-being for my own. Believe me, I have thoroughly thought this through and looked at it from every different angle. The bottom line for me is that I MUST do what is in THEIR best interest. Without going into a very lenghty explaination, I will just say that I know I am doing the right thing here.