BWLoca Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 I don't think the OP is saying you should ditch all your friends. Just that one on one contact with the opposite sex may create some doubt in your relationship. It's not just about cheating.
Agoraphobianebula Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 Quite frankly, all this grand talk about actual male female friendships is hogwash and rationalizations. It happens often, but certainly not often enough to be the norm. As far as I'm concerned it is perfectly sensible to be alarmed/suspicious. See, this is exactly the rationale that keeps men forever stuck in the friendzone awaiting that magical day when she will see you as the guy she's always wanted to be with and promptly hop on your d*ck. Lol:lmao: dream on brother. It doesn't happen often!. How many unrequited love woes do we constantly read from men on LS? The guy friends can hang around salivating all they want under the guise of friendship but trust me, your girlfriend isn't going anywhere. And on the RARE OCCASION that she does leave you for the friend. It's not their friendship's fault trust me, she was going to leave you anyway.
meerkat stew Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 If she has a career that is dominated by males, this is pretty much an impossible request. Work relationships have special circumstances. Want to add that what I'm talking about is not any "threat" from another man stealing my GF away, no one can prevent that if it's going to happen, but rather the "noise" from external sources of attention supply that undermine a relationship. Every time she does something wrong, or there is a mild argument, she will go running off to the "peanut gallery" of endlessly supportive and sympathetic wormy little he-bitches she has in her coat pocket. Should she be mature enough not to do that? Of course, so few are though that it is a reality every man has to deal with in relationships from time to time. I tell them that behavior is wrong in itself, and make it very clear that if they engage in it, I'm gone. There are no surprises. Relationship issues are to be worked out between us and us alone. Since taking a hardline on this, it has -never- become an issue. You just have to make your boundary clear and if she is quality she will respect it. Same with whatever boundaries she has for me, if they are remotely reasonable, I respect them.
alphamale Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 Men and Women can't just be friends .... i agree with this statement
Stockalone Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 I think it is fine for a girl to be friends with and have contact with men other then her bf. I just don't think she should be able to go out and do something alone with that person. I also don't think a girl should stay in contact with her ex boyfriends. I don't think I can chage a woman either, I just refuse to be with some one who does these things. What I wrote "never let a girl you date hang out with men" all I meant was ask her not to and break up if thats the only option. I completely agree. It is definetly personal the reason I feel the boundary needs to be there. I just hate the idea of having a gf who is close friends with her ex, and hangs out and has fun with men who are not me even if no cheating was involved. It feels almost primal inside me but I have no urge to change the way I feel as it is working for me. It feels almost primal inside me explains it very well. I feel the same way. In my opinion, this has far more to do with respect than insecurity or fear of being cheated on. Obviously, people can and will disagree with me here, but that is how I see it. As the bf, I am the man, and there shall be no other men beside me.
meerkat stew Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 Quite frankly, all this grand talk about actual male female friendships is hogwash and rationalizations. It happens often, but certainly not often enough to be the norm. As far as I'm concerned it is perfectly sensible to be alarmed/suspicious. Don't know how old you are, but as you get older, it seems there are more and more legitimate opposite sex friendships. In my 40s, my non-dating relationships with women run 60/40 between women I might sleep with given the chance or if some variable changed, and women who are real honest to goodness friends. I give women my age I'm dating the same benefit of the doubt, so long as any given relationship passes the simple boundary tests I typed out earlier. I never ask a partner to do or forego something I'm unwilling to do or forego myself. IME, dating younger women (28-38 for me) is where the "peanut gallery" of fake friends is most problematic. Ladies, a guy who calls you every now and then to chat and try to get you to go out drinking, despite the fact he isn't overtly hitting on you, is almost always not a friend, but rather a guy who doesn't have enough balls to have a proper go at you.
Author Green Posted January 25, 2010 Author Posted January 25, 2010 Took a freshly single female friend to a party on saturday. Everyone there were people my husband and I know and have known very well for a while now. When my husband wanted to leave, my female friend put her lower lip out because she was still having fun and someone she had not seen in a long time had just arrived. I told her I would stay. A few hours later, I was a little more tipsy than I intended and she had become attached at the hip with the old friend. I wanted to go home before the train stopped running. One of our guy friends walked the 4 blocks to the metro with me and saw me all the way home. YOU would rather your GF have walked herself than have a guy see her home? OR you would have insisted she "heel" and leave before she wanted to? OR stayed and scowled until everyone grew tired of your attitude and asked her to get you out of there? Gross! There was a married woman there who was not attending with her husband. She ended up flirting with my guy friend and kissed him. He would never even dream of trying that with me because he would catch the beat down of his life! Maybe you should try dating in the adult world, but I caution; adults don't like it when you treat them like children. You don't seem to have a point. This isn't about makeing my gf walk home alone. Personaly I wouldn't have had a problem staying and waiting things out I would never just leave my gf some where to take the train home alone and would have the foresight to see that posibility if your friend was trying to hook up. Good points. The key is not to be controlling. If you control the frame and she respects you, you shouldn't have to tell her any of this. If she wants to hang out one-on-one with another guy, she's more than welcome to - she just won't be your exclusive GF any more. It's not about letting her or allowing her to do anything. It's about you respecting yourself and knowing when to walk if she's not respecting you. Pretty much. But alot of women seem to see nothing wrong with having one on one male friends while in a relationship and they don't deserve a exclusive one on one relationship with me. Quoted for telling it like it is. Similarly, as a guy, I will also acknowledge that I have NEVER had purely friendship intentions towards a woman. Sure, I have some female friends - or more precisely - acuintances - , but it is purely situational ==> I'm either not attracted to them (but if they're not too ugly would probably still make a pass at them in a parralel universe with no consequences), or we go waaaaaay back (e.g. highschool, college) so we actually are friends. Quite frankly, all this grand talk about actual male female friendships is hogwash and rationalizations. It happens often, but certainly not often enough to be the norm. As far as I'm concerned it is perfectly sensible to be alarmed/suspicious. To make the point if I was sent to a twighlight zone reality where my best male friend was a normal female with a female body and female voice but other then that the same person (somehow) we could not just purely be friends any more, I'd wonder what they looked like naked ect. I disagree with that. I have a male friend that I met while we were both in relationships, we both split up with our so's within two months of each other. We each stayed single for about 6 - 8 months, never dated, never went there. We are still friends and he and my guy are friends now too. If my guy and I split he would remain friends with both of us. He is still friends with my ex and I am still friends with his. That doesn't mean he didn't wonder what you look like naked. It doesn't mean that if you had both got drunk one night and he saw a clear opening something romantic wouldn't happen then and there. You don't know what he thinks, I believe I do. Just because nothing happened when you were both single doesn't prove anything. I remember counseling one particular single young lady about her education and future engineering career a number of times, one on one. Look, I've played all these roles. Fell in love with an attention whore years ago. Dealt with that. Dated many incompatible women. Married one. Still, it doesn't change my basic philosophy that we are free and autonomous beings who make choices and take responsibility for those choices and their consequences each minute of each day. If a woman having male friends or 'hanging out' with males is a deal-breaker for you, then it is. Communicate that to her and own it along with whatever consequences it brings. IMO, that's fair. It is a deal-breaker and I always communicate it the consequences being the end of the relationship. This is exactly what I mean. Men and women are able to be friends without that sex stigma floating in the air. I am alone at home with one of my male friends often. He comes over to use the computer or has me looking at some new gadget he just bought. [i would say boys and their toys, but I love new technology too.] He knows I am interested in things like that but he doesn't try to hit on me while we're having a conversation. I can go to the mall and they'll push me to talk to some guy that's been watching me. We are supportive like family. I know people have had bad experiences with women having male friends, but that just can't apply to all female/male friendships. I really wouldn't care if it was possible because even if we had begun falling in love this is a deal breaker and I would leave a person with this attitude. If she has a career that is dominated by males, this is pretty much an impossible request. Also, why would you want a girl who would be better off with someone else in her mind anyway? Nothing would give me more pride than being able to tell guys what a wonderful example of a boyfriend my man was. This is why it's important to not rush into relationships. If you cannot communicate and she's not sure, there are problems that are deeper than her hanging out with other boys. If it was a business dinner, co-worker lunch what ever. but no career forces people to hang out one on one for social hour. And of course there are problems that could be worse I was just focusing on this one issue for this thread. Not bad at all, just shows that you have learned an enlightened view of men's motives and that you have a healthy relationship with getting attention in your life. Yes, there are few men out there who don't have ulterior motives when "befriending" a woman, and there are few women out there who share your clear-headed attitude about it. Many women continue to naively believe whatever allows them to continue to bask in the attention without feeling duplicitous with the guy they are dating. Your BF is a lucky man. She is still naive just less naive about men and their motives. Green, I wouldn't have any problems with your thread, had you broached it as your views or preferences. The opening post makes it sound like it should be universally applied, that it's the only way to handle any relationship for anyone. Where we both agree is that if you don't trust your partner, it's time to get out of the relationship. It was many previouse threads from other posters with ex's or friends or what ever comming into their partners lives that prompted me to make this thread. It is my personal prefenence but for that reason I do think it should be universally applied. I do trust my partner, plus I was using this hypotheticaly to apply in any relationship as a healthy boundry . but yes we agree trust is important, heck its important in everything from business to pleasure. Insecure men I think its insecure to simply dismiss something you don't agree with as insecurity. I don't think the OP is saying you should ditch all your friends. Just that one on one contact with the opposite sex may create some doubt in your relationship. It's not just about cheating. In a ways its not about cheating at all just boundaries and whats apropriate contact with opposite sex when in a relationship. Look even with all this in place you could lie and say you were going on a business trip, or hanging out with same sex friends and go cheat so really it can't stop that. All it does in my opinion is make the relationship drama free and take away some cheat situations but of course a cheater will cheat any ways which is a different issue See, this is exactly the rationale that keeps men forever stuck in the friendzone awaiting that magical day when she will see you as the guy she's always wanted to be with and promptly hop on your d*ck. Lol:lmao: dream on brother. It doesn't happen often!. How many unrequited love woes do we constantly read from men on LS? The guy friends can hang around salivating all they want under the guise of friendship but trust me, your girlfriend isn't going anywhere. And on the RARE OCCASION that she does leave you for the friend. It's not their friendship's fault trust me, she was going to leave you anyway. What do I care if she is going any where I don't want to be involved in that situation. Work relationships have special circumstances. Want to add that what I'm talking about is not any "threat" from another man stealing my GF away, no one can prevent that if it's going to happen, but rather the "noise" from external sources of attention supply that undermine a relationship. Every time she does something wrong, or there is a mild argument, she will go running off to the "peanut gallery" of endlessly supportive and sympathetic wormy little he-bitches she has in her coat pocket. Should she be mature enough not to do that? Of course, so few are though that it is a reality every man has to deal with in relationships from time to time. I tell them that behavior is wrong in itself, and make it very clear that if they engage in it, I'm gone. There are no surprises. Relationship issues are to be worked out between us and us alone. Since taking a hardline on this, it has -never- become an issue. You just have to make your boundary clear and if she is quality she will respect it. Same with whatever boundaries she has for me, if they are remotely reasonable, I respect them. Seriously I put my foot down and I never have to deal with any of this. i agree with this statement Sadly many, many women have no understanding of what being friends with a man really is. Obviously, people can and will disagree with me here, but that is how I see it. As the bf, I am the man, and there shall be no other men beside me. it really is a "There can only be one" situation otherwise whats the point might as well casualy date around. Don't know how old you are, but as you get older, it seems there are more and more legitimate opposite sex friendships. In my 40s, my non-dating relationships with women run 60/40 between women I might sleep with given the chance or if some variable changed, and women who are real honest to goodness friends. I give women my age I'm dating the same benefit of the doubt, so long as any given relationship passes the simple boundary tests I typed out earlier. I never ask a partner to do or forego something I'm unwilling to do or forego myself. IME, dating younger women (28-38 for me) is where the "peanut gallery" of fake friends is most problematic. Ladies, a guy who calls you every now and then to chat and try to get you to go out drinking, despite the fact he isn't overtly hitting on you, is almost always not a friend, but rather a guy who doesn't have enough balls to have a proper go at you. I'm couple decades younger then you and it is at this time I would like to point out my experiences in writing this thread have all been dating women in their early twenties or younger. Even as I get older though I would not be happy with one on one oposite-sex one on one time friendships with my partner.
GroupFitness Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 ok ok, I think I get the OP and others' reasoning that it's about respect and not fear of cheating or insecurity. Which seems to be the two things people are arguing against. But if you say, it's about respect, then could you please elaborate further? Why exactly do you think her hanging out with opposite sex friends is disrespectful to you? and in what way(how) do you think it's disrespectful? Keep in mind though that in this scenario, we have eliminated the possiblity of cheating (which you don't seem to be afraid of) or even attention whoring (because you presumably picked someone who doesn't feel the need to do that). And it's not about you being insecure either because that ties in with the fear of cheating. and Green, you said ANY one-one- one time with ANY male friends, which means, to you, it doesn't matter who the guy is, you just don't want your girl hanging out with any guy besides you. The question is WHY? And I'll throw in one more wrench, you could say you trust your girl but you don't trust the guy. What do you think that means? If you trust your girl to ward off any advances then why are you so particular about the guy's motives? what do you think the guy will do? force himself on her, kiss her against her will, rape her or what?
sally4sara Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 IME, dating younger women (28-38 for me) is where the "peanut gallery" of fake friends is most problematic. Ladies, a guy who calls you every now and then to chat and try to get you to go out drinking, despite the fact he isn't overtly hitting on you, is almost always not a friend, but rather a guy who doesn't have enough balls to have a proper go at you. And on that point, you're usually right. Every guy friend I have had ended up having that regretful confessional moment. Either because he developed feelings or because he always had them. That is his problem, my friendship was sincere. If he doesn't know my now husband, I won't contact him for a good long while or till I hear he has met someone. If the guy DID know my husband - he gets deaded. Its one thing to test my character and see if I'll jump. Its another entirely to disrespect someone who has only ever treated them respectfully and with warmth. Why can't some folks just trust their SO to handle it if something like that does happen? Either the person you're with will tell their "friend" off and set them straight, or they were never worth keeping in the first place. Banning them from having opposite gender friends is just delaying the enevitable or placing useless restrictions on someone who would never stoop.
Awesome Username Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 Every time she does something wrong, or there is a mild argument, she will go running off to the "peanut gallery" of endlessly supportive and sympathetic wormy little he-bitches she has in her coat pocket. HAHAHA!! A lot of women who are taught to be nice and passive in relationships are more likely to do this. Although, most often when a woman goes to one of her guy friends to vent problems about her boyfriend, he is usually on the permanent friendzone list, like a gay friend. Her getting drunk with other guys is a gigantic red flag in my opinion though, because judgment is impaired. The way to avoid this is to pick a woman who has strong moral values and boundaries in the first place.
sally4sara Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 You don't seem to have a point. This isn't about makeing my gf walk home alone. Personaly I wouldn't have had a problem staying and waiting things out I would never just leave my gf some where to take the train home alone and would have the foresight to see that posibility if your friend was trying to hook up. No, you've just missed my point. Try dating someone you can trust out of your sight and then you too can go home and get the sleep you need to go into work the next day while they can stay out because they have the next day off and are still having fun. Try dating someone that would bust a fella in the teeth for trifling and rat them out to you in case you wanted a swing too.
Agoraphobianebula Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) I'm couple decades younger then you and it is at this time I would like to point out my experiences in writing this thread have all been dating women in their early twenties or younger. Even as I get older though I would not be happy with one on one oposite-sex one on one time friendships with my partner. Green, I think you should have mentioned this fact earlier. Preferably in your first post. You would have avoided 7 pages of people attacking your point of view. Usually with age, comes new experiences and consequent adjustment of rigid philosophies. You will mature, the women you date will mature and life/reality will eventually teach you that it rarely operates in absolutes. I will bet you that most of the dissenters of your post are some years older than you and deal with women who are also years older than the ones you date. Go easy on him guys, he's still learning. Edited January 25, 2010 by Agoraphobianebula
PinkToes Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 OK so if I had a guy friend that I'd known for 20 years, and neither of us had ever shown any interest in being anything but friends, and we had lunch together a couple of times a year, whether either of us was in a relationship or not, that wouldn't be OK? I would always invite my bf to join us if he wanted to, and he has done the same with a girlfriend, but that's not a lot of fun for the third wheel. I took a bf to a high school reunion once and we were both miserable; I worried about making sure he was comfortable, and he made no effort to talk to anyone. And of course I kept trying to find common ground in every conversation, which put a real damper on all of the "remember when" stories -- most of which had nothing to do with old boyfriends. It's the same thing with old friends. Just because you've never been anything but friends doesn't mean it isn't nice to talk about stuff you've done together. And that's just not fun for someone else who gets dragged along because they don't trust you to be alone with any member of the opposite sex. And it does change the conversation. I'm willing to respect my partner's desire that I not socialize with an ex, or hang out in social situations with men I don't know very well, but if he forced me to choose between having lunch with a life-long friend and soothing his insecurities -- when I had given him no reason to mistrust me, I'm afraid I'd have to choose the old friend.
Clep Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 Y That doesn't mean he didn't wonder what you look like naked. It doesn't mean that if you had both got drunk one night and he saw a clear opening something romantic wouldn't happen then and there. You don't know what he thinks, I believe I do. Just because nothing happened when you were both single doesn't prove anything. This clearly shows your tunneled thinking, closed mind and inability to see that others are not how you perceive them to be. He is my friend. I hear what he values, thinks and cherishes, what his fears are, hopes are and what his challenges are. Silly me for thinking that you being of the same gender makes you understand what he think more than someone who knows him.
DiscoChick Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 No, you've just missed my point. Try dating someone you can trust out of your sight and then you too can go home and get the sleep you need to go into work the next day while they can stay out because they have the next day off and are still having fun. Try dating someone that would bust a fella in the teeth for trifling and rat them out to you in case you wanted a swing too. This is what I'm talking about!!
Clep Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 No, you've just missed my point. Try dating someone you can trust out of your sight and then you too can go home and get the sleep you need to go into work the next day while they can stay out because they have the next day off and are still having fun. Try dating someone that would bust a fella in the teeth for trifling and rat them out to you in case you wanted a swing too. Nice post. Thanks. Maybe after he has been with a woman like this things will change, but I am thinking his way of thinking will not allow a relationship with this type of woman, as she would never put up with his way of thinking.
PinkToes Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 Green, I think you should have mentioned this fact earlier. Preferably in your first post. You would have avoided 7 pages of people attacking your point of view. Usually with age, comes new experiences and consequent adjustment of rigid philosophies. You will mature, the women you date will mature and life/reality will eventually teach you that it rarely operates in absolutes. I will bet you that most of the dissenters of your post are some years older than you and deal with women who are also years older than the ones you date. Go easy on him guys, he's still learning. Fair point. My first boyfriend (when I was 19) used to get upset if I spent any time with a gay friend because he said I "just didn't understand" the way men think. Which was sort of offensive to me because it felt like he didn't trust me, but we were both young. And I guess if he thought I could somehow convince my friend to bat for the other team.... I suppose that's a compliment.
meerkat stew Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 Banning them from having opposite gender friends is just delaying the enevitable or placing useless restrictions on someone who would never stoop. Well, there are two strands in the thread. Green is more hardcore and doesn't want them spending any time with opposite sex friends whether they are real or not. I don't have a problem with my GF spending time with real friends, but they have to be real friends, not sycophants waiting for a chance with her that she classifies as friends because she enjoys the attention and having backburners. Will say that I can't recall dating a woman in the last 15 years who would be cool with me doing things alone with non-work women, friend or no. It's not a ban they lay down per se, just an endless quizzing, grilling, pouting process that is more noxious than an out and out ban ever could be I don't know any men who find this very common stance of their GFs unreasonable, it's just understood that you don't hang out alone with other women while dating or there will be hell to pay. I do find many women don't like the same standard applied to them.
threebyfate Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 It was many previouse threads from other posters with ex's or friends or what ever comming into their partners lives that prompted me to make this thread. It is my personal prefenence but for that reason I do think it should be universally applied.Instead of trying to control your partner retroactively, better to find someone with similar relationship boundaries, ensuring that this is stated upfront. This is the reason why I gave my original example, of the guy who needed, hence solicited female attention. It was a blatant example of incompatibilities. I do trust my partner, plus I was using this hypotheticaly to apply in any relationship as a healthy boundry.A healthy boundary is one that's easy to maintain, since the two parties have similar values. When one party keeps pushing boundaries, it's like trying to push a square peg into a round hole. Ain't gonna' happen and that's when the word "project" comes into play, rather than the word "relationship". You've been on LS long enough to know that attempted to control another person is an exercise in futility. The energy wasted could have been put to much more healthy pursuits, like strengthening relationship connections with someone who believes as you do. but yes we agree trust is important, heck its important in everything from business to pleasure. Agreed.
Clep Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 Will say that I can't recall dating a woman in the last 15 years who would be cool with me doing things alone with non-work women, friend or no. It's not a ban they lay down per se, just an endless quizzing, grilling, pouting process that is more noxious than an out and out ban ever could be I don't know any men who find this very common stance of their GFs unreasonable, it's just understood that you don't hang out alone with other women while dating or there will be hell to pay. I do find many women don't like the same standard applied to them. I agree with this for the most part. I have a challenge however with that in my life as my bf thinks I am that way exactly. When I really don't have a problem with his friendships, I do have a problem with is lack of boundaries with women. We just had a conversation about it last night. He does hang out with other women that have become my friends too. He actually has many, many female friends, but I think he suffers from the same thing some women do.....the requirement to have lots of attention from the opposite sex. Do I feel completely comfortable with it, no. Would I if he had the strong boundaries I do and does not require the need to have all that attention from the opposite sex, yes.
Author Green Posted January 25, 2010 Author Posted January 25, 2010 ok ok, I think I get the OP and others' reasoning that it's about respect and not fear of cheating or insecurity. Which seems to be the two things people are arguing against. But if you say, it's about respect, then could you please elaborate further? Why exactly do you think her hanging out with opposite sex friends is disrespectful to you? and in what way(how) do you think it's disrespectful? Keep in mind though that in this scenario, we have eliminated the possiblity of cheating (which you don't seem to be afraid of) or even attention whoring (because you presumably picked someone who doesn't feel the need to do that). And it's not about you being insecure either because that ties in with the fear of cheating. and Green, you said ANY one-one- one time with ANY male friends, which means, to you, it doesn't matter who the guy is, you just don't want your girl hanging out with any guy besides you. The question is WHY? And I'll throw in one more wrench, you could say you trust your girl but you don't trust the guy. What do you think that means? If you trust your girl to ward off any advances then why are you so particular about the guy's motives? what do you think the guy will do? force himself on her, kiss her against her will, rape her or what? Even if cheating is iliminated I still wouldn't like it because I want the girl all to myself. And rape is possible although not my main concern, I just don't like the thought of some other guy getting to enjoy the company of my gf, getting to do something private with her. Even if I trust my gf to ward off or be naive to advances I don't like the idea that she is out there putting herself in a situation to allow advances to be made. Its one thing to be out at a bar and have some random dude hit on her, its another thing for her to be friends with a guy who is hitting on her. Finaly I would never blame a girl for getting raped especialy acuantance rape because that is the fault solely of the rapist. No, you've just missed my point. Try dating someone you can trust out of your sight and then you too can go home and get the sleep you need to go into work the next day while they can stay out because they have the next day off and are still having fun. Try dating someone that would bust a fella in the teeth for trifling and rat them out to you in case you wanted a swing too. I do date some one I trust and wouldn't have it any other way. My only point was that when my gf falls asleep on the couch I like to be there to pick her up and carry her to bed. It wasn't about me wanting to watch over my gf. when I go to the bathroom at the club guys come and hit on my gf all the time. When I had to go out of town on business my gf went out with her friends, my problem is just with one on one male time. If my gf had to choose between getting a ride from a guy or walking home I would say get the ride if you think its safer for you. Green, I think you should have mentioned this fact earlier. Preferably in your first post. You would have avoided 7 pages of people attacking your point of view. Usually with age, comes new experiences and consequent adjustment of rigid philosophies. You will mature, the women you date will mature and life/reality will eventually teach you that it rarely operates in absolutes. I will bet you that most of the dissenters of your post are some years older than you and deal with women who are also years older than the ones you date. Go easy on him guys, he's still learning. No one asked. Any ways I doubt my feelings on this will change. As far as I know my parents were never out having one on one time with oposite sex friends. Look this post isn't about socializeing at work or parties or whatever its about having special boundary breaking relationships with oposite sex friends. I think women are especialy naive as most men I know agree that men and women can't just be friends but every women comes on and says they can. OK so if I had a guy friend that I'd known for 20 years, and neither of us had ever shown any interest in being anything but friends, and we had lunch together a couple of times a year, whether either of us was in a relationship or not, that wouldn't be OK? I would always invite my bf to join us if he wanted to, and he has done the same with a girlfriend, but that's not a lot of fun for the third wheel. I took a bf to a high school reunion once and we were both miserable; I worried about making sure he was comfortable, and he made no effort to talk to anyone. And of course I kept trying to find common ground in every conversation, which put a real damper on all of the "remember when" stories -- most of which had nothing to do with old boyfriends. It's the same thing with old friends. Just because you've never been anything but friends doesn't mean it isn't nice to talk about stuff you've done together. And that's just not fun for someone else who gets dragged along because they don't trust you to be alone with any member of the opposite sex. And it does change the conversation. I'm willing to respect my partner's desire that I not socialize with an ex, or hang out in social situations with men I don't know very well, but if he forced me to choose between having lunch with a life-long friend and soothing his insecurities -- when I had given him no reason to mistrust me, I'm afraid I'd have to choose the old friend. Why do you have to have a private lunch with some man so bad? Hes not your friend you just think he is, it doesn't matter if he has a gf off some where if he didn't bring her and you two are alone thats what he wanted. This clearly shows your tunneled thinking, closed mind and inability to see that others are not how you perceive them to be. He is my friend. I hear what he values, thinks and cherishes, what his fears are, hopes are and what his challenges are. Silly me for thinking that you being of the same gender makes you understand what he think more than someone who knows him. If he is taking the time to spend privatly with you then he is atleast interested, and if some variable happens to change he could try something. He may never try anything that doesn't change what he knows in his head. Seriouse this tunneled thinking is what people use to solve crimes, psychiatry.... heck every feild... at a certain point you need to believe something. I understand you think he is your friend, we disagree on that if he is agreeing to spend private time with you. Instead of trying to control your partner retroactively, better to find someone with similar relationship boundaries, ensuring that this is stated upfront. This is the reason why I gave my original example, of the guy who needed, hence solicited female attention. It was a blatant example of incompatibilities. A healthy boundary is one that's easy to maintain, since the two parties have similar values. When one party keeps pushing boundaries, it's like trying to push a square peg into a round hole. Ain't gonna' happen and that's when the word "project" comes into play, rather than the word "relationship". You've been on LS long enough to know that attempted to control another person is an exercise in futility. The energy wasted could have been put to much more healthy pursuits, like strengthening relationship connections with someone who believes as you do. Agreed. things can only be done in the present. When I meet a girl say in line at the library, I'm not going to say do you have close guy friends? but after a few dates and things get seriouse and as problems pop up of course I will speak up, and no you can't push a square peg into a round hole so if things don't work out they don't work out. Has nothing to do with trying to change some one Well, there are two strands in the thread. Green is more hardcore and doesn't want them spending any time with opposite sex friends whether they are real or not. I don't have a problem with my GF spending time with real friends, but they have to be real friends, not sycophants waiting for a chance with her that she classifies as friends because she enjoys the attention and having backburners. Will say that I can't recall dating a woman in the last 15 years who would be cool with me doing things alone with non-work women, friend or no. It's not a ban they lay down per se, just an endless quizzing, grilling, pouting process that is more noxious than an out and out ban ever could be I don't know any men who find this very common stance of their GFs unreasonable, it's just understood that you don't hang out alone with other women while dating or there will be hell to pay. I do find many women don't like the same standard applied to them. I've enjoyed all your writing, but why not just tell women you date you are not cool with them seeing men like they did before you. If they have a good friend then invite him out for a double date or what ever don't go and watch movies with him at his place by yourselves. I say make a clear cut rule.
FryFish Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 This clearly shows your tunneled thinking, closed mind and inability to see that others are not how you perceive them to be. He is my friend. I hear what he values, thinks and cherishes, what his fears are, hopes are and what his challenges are. Silly me for thinking that you being of the same gender makes you understand what he think more than someone who knows him.Lol... Guys dont tell their actual friends these things unless they are about to die or seriously drunk... But we do tell our female "friends" these little things about ourselves... It makes them feel safe with us.
GroupFitness Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 Will say that I can't recall dating a woman in the last 15 years who would be cool with me doing things alone with non-work women, friend or no. It's not a ban they lay down per se, just an endless quizzing, grilling, pouting process that is more noxious than an out and out ban ever could be I don't know any men who find this very common stance of their GFs unreasonable, it's just understood that you don't hang out alone with other women while dating or there will be hell to pay. I do find many women don't like the same standard applied to them. You do have a point there, women tend to lay down this law more than men, I know. But it usually takes a combination of an insecure woman and an overtly outgoing and possible attention craver kind of man. While you can easily spot the difference, I still don't think the answer is to dictate whom they can or can't hang out with. That's just rubs people the wrong way all over.
OnlyJake Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 You should never let a girl you are dating hang out with men. If you are dating a girl seriously then you should ask her not to put herself in a situation where she is going to be alone with another man. I think it is fine for a girl to be friends with and have contact with men other then her bf. I just don't think she should be able to go out and do something alone with that person. I also don't think a girl should stay in contact with her ex boyfriends. The same applies for men. I just think women are often naive about thinking it would be olright for them to just go hang out with a guy and just be friends with him outside of school or work ect. I say keep it at work or school, or at some group event like a couples dinner or a party ect. Men and Women can't just be friends and I wouldn't want the stress of knowing that the person I date is out having a good time with a member of the oposite sex. as I said before I think this aplies to men as well, but women in my experience are often more naive to this fact. I actually completely agree with this post, except instead of saying "You should never let a girl you are dating hang out with men" I would say something more along the lines of you should demand respect and if she doesn't give it, toodles. Bonus points if s/he is smart enough to not put themselves in those positions and it's never an issue in the first place.
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