carolinawanderer Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Chivalry is a nothing other than giving women special treatment for no reason beyond the fact they are female. People should be considerate of both men and women, it shouldn't be the thing to do just because one person is female. +1. A relationship is a partnership between equals. If I'm in a relationship and bending over backwards for my partner, it's because I love her, not because she's a woman. I like to do nice things for whichever girl I'm with (the occasional gift/paying for dinner, and a lot of small shows of affection like poems, etc), but I expect a reasonable level of reciprocity. Men like that stuff as well. I consider myself to be pretty chivalrous, except for paying for everything. I don't mind doing that from time to time, but I would have serious issues being with someone who expected it more often than not.
paddington bear Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Feminism - which started as equal rights to vote, to work, to the same pay as men and got twisted along the way into meaning that men who were polite enough to open doors for you were really symbolising that they thought you were weak and they were superior. Parenting - basic lack of manners being taught, perhaps the rise of both parents working and thus parental guilt leading to much buying of gifts and giving their little darlings everything they want, thus leading to self-centered adults who think the world owes them something. Men's confusion of their role in the world - it is not so clearly defined now, there is no general 'this is what a real man is' role models or general agreement as to what that is. Should I be metrosexual? Should I open the door for this girl, will she like it, or will she rudely spit out that she's perfectly capable of opening a door herself? Should I be alpha and to hell with everyone? Should I work out like crazy in the gym because all men should be 6 foot and have rippling muscles and if I don't match up to that, I'm a failure? I do think men have it tough these days. They get a lot of mixed signals about what they should be from women and from the media, and I think those that have been brought up well, find out in the real world that many women don't appreciate the values they were rasied with, leaving them feeling more confused and worthless - therefore many do nothing, it is safer, they won't be accused of being a woman-hater then, they won't do the wrong thing (and they don't even know what the wrong or right thing is any more because that seems to change constantly). Having said that, chivalry comes down to basic manners and politeness. Guy holds a door open for me I, as a woman should be chivalrous in return, and say 'thank you', nice of the guy to make a small gesture of kindness. I have a friend with a 2 month old baby, and I was surprised when she said that not one man had offered to help her carry her pram and baby down sets of stairs in train stations, but from now on she's going to ask some stranger to help her if she's tuck. The thing is, she shouldn't have to ask. Male or female, if you see another human being struggling with something like that, offer to help, it's simple manners. I've seen heavily pregnant women on buses and trains and no one gives them a seat. I've seen elderly people on public transport and no one gives up their seat for them. All of us are being trained to be selfish and to be only out for ourselves in this dog-eat-dog world, which I believe is responsible for the breakdown in relationships between men and women and the confusion surrounding dating. We can no longer connect in the most simple ways, due to only looking out for ourselves but due to being totally confused as to what is acceptable behaviour. (I watched a documentary about the differences between men and women, they put a child actress sitting on the street alone, 99% of women passing stopped to ask the child if she was ok, where was her parents etc. 99% of men did not stop (this was a test of empathy), however....some men who were asked why they didn't try to help said 'I was afraid to approach in case people thought I was a paedophile' - again, men's fear and confusion about their gestures being misinterpreted by others, so they do nothing. That is why chivalry is dead.)
xxxheartbrokenxxx Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 In my world, it's alive and well. Most of the guys I've had relationships with were chivalrous, well-mannered gentlemen. I wouldn't be happy with anything less. He's gotta be a gentle knight in the streets and a fearless warrior in the sheets. Same applies to me as well, my guy is such a gentleman - very polite, well mannered and traditional. Nothing is too much trouble for him, he treats me very well. Cant say the same for my previous partners though, LOL!
counterman Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 I have had an instance where I opened the door for the girl, and she said in a very accusatory tone "it's not like I can't open it myself". But, that never stopped me from opening doors for other people. It's not only for girls, for guys as well. I think upbringing and culture has a lot to do with it. However, it also depends on the individual. The way parents bring up a child would have a major influence on the person's behaviour and attitude.
Trialbyfire Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Ladies, if you want a man who displays common courtesy, who's been raised properly to mind his manners, don't put up with discourteous behaviour. Courtesy is taught from birth onwards and trying to change someone to the belief that manners are necessary, when they're an adult, is not only frustrating but self-defeating. Just walk away. And no, common courtesy isn't dead. For platonic and romantic relationships, just avoid people who don't display it. This type of bad behaviour will permeate their actions in many ways.
OnlyJake Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Feminism . women asked for it & that's exactly what they got Parents who don't know how to raise decent human beings. I completely agree with both these statements. I said this before, but I really do think men only behave as badly as women let them.
bananaboat11 Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 I have seen some women on here bemoaning the lack of chivalry in today's men and I have noticed that it is an idea that is pretty much on it's last legs. I will post my thoughts later but I want to know what people think is reponsible for it's demise. When a woman wants chivalry.. she doesn't want you at her beck & call... rather, if you're in front of her and you have to open a door... hold it for her and let her in first... don't RACE to get in front of her to hold it open. That's just ****ing weird. When walking her to your car... swing around the car and open her door... Don't smother her in gifts. Don't TALK 24/7... communicate. (some women are VERY guilty of that last piece) y'know?
hollywood undead Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 I have seen some women on here bemoaning the lack of chivalry in today's men and I have noticed that it is an idea that is pretty much on it's last legs. I will post my thoughts later but I want to know what people think is reponsible for it's demise. Porn and its woman-hating standards it has created in men.
meerkat stew Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Porn and its woman-hating standards it has created in men. How exactly does porn create "woman-hating" standards? unless by "woman hating" you mean anything that certain women don't like. Never mind, that actually -is- the feeble, but accepted definition of "hate" these days, "whatever thing, position or point of view -I- don't like necessarily implies hatred," right?
betamanlet Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 most women have low self esteem and low self esteem women require drama
sagetalk Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 I treat men the way they treat me. To me, that's fair enough. That's not chivalry, it's feminism. In chivalry, women are placed above the man.
betamanlet Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Porn and its woman-hating standards it has created in men. So why are so many women in porn, and why is it being flooded with so many women now that current stars complain about it driving down wages? Should women be protected from their own decisions? Is that equality?
sagetalk Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 I truly believe that the low self esteem of women in today's culture has killed modern chivalry. Nearly every women I have dated or known closely (including my very attractive sister) all suffer from low self esteem. This is not a guess, they have told me with their own mouth. They feel they do not deserve to be put on a pedestal, and tend to go after men who treat them poorly rather than chivalrously. It is strange, but sadly true. Their low opinion of themselves almost destroys any chance they have of finding a real knight in shining armor. I consider myself to be very chivalrous (which has cost me dearly with women sometimes), and have great difficulty respecting any man that does not treat women this way. I do not do it for my own profit. I do it because it is what I feel is right and honorable.
ella23 Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 I truly believe that the low self esteem of women in today's culture has killed modern chivalry. Nearly every women I have dated or known closely (including my very attractive sister) all suffer from low self esteem. This is not a guess, they have told me with their own mouth. They feel they do not deserve to be put on a pedestal, and tend to go after men who treat them poorly rather than chivalrously. It is strange, but sadly true. Their low opinion of themselves almost destroys any chance they have of finding a real knight in shining armor. I consider myself to be very chivalrous (which has cost me dearly with women sometimes), and have great difficulty respecting any man that does not treat women this way. I do not do it for my own profit. I do it because it is what I feel is right and honorable. What does low self esteem have to do with going out with guys who treat you poorly? I have low self esteem I guess, but I don't go after guys who'd treat me like crap.
betamanlet Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 I truly believe that the low self esteem of women in today's culture has killed modern chivalry. Nearly every women I have dated or known closely (including my very attractive sister) all suffer from low self esteem. This is not a guess, they have told me with their own mouth. They feel they do not deserve to be put on a pedestal, and tend to go after men who treat them poorly rather than chivalrously. It is strange, but sadly true. Their low opinion of themselves almost destroys any chance they have of finding a real knight in shining armor. I consider myself to be very chivalrous (which has cost me dearly with women sometimes), and have great difficulty respecting any man that does not treat women this way. I do not do it for my own profit. I do it because it is what I feel is right and honorable. but you treat people the way they want to be treated, not how you want to be treated. if women wanted guys like you or me, we would be highly nin demand....
samsungxoxo Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 most women have low self esteem and low self esteem women require drama And what type of sane man would settle for that? If you have low self-esteem and don't love yourself then clearly you're not going to attract anyone but flies.
betamanlet Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 And what type of sane man would settle for that? If you have low self-esteem and don't love yourself then clearly you're not going to attract anyone but flies. But given it's a majority of women, are you suggesting that the majority of men just accept that htey will have nobody in their lives because of the mathematics of this?
Golfilla Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 but you treat people the way they want to be treated, not how you want to be treated. if women wanted guys like you or me, we would be highly nin demand.... But what exactly IS a guy like you? On the one hand, you claim to be a "nice, stable dependable guy", and then two posts later you're openly advocating violence against women. So which is it? Perhaps you should decide which side of the fence you actually sit on. In answer to the original question, it's a combination of things. There's no doubt that feminism played a big part. If a man gets chewed out for holding a door open for a woman, or buys her dinner only to see her date someone else, he's soon going to stop doing what doesn't work. Then there's the way people are brought up, which seems to be amplified by the media which tells us that life is all about instant gratification and getting as much as you can, and screw everyone else (in more ways than one). I think it's pretty much on it's last legs, and will disappear completely in a generation or two. FWIW, I make a point of treating all people (men or women) with basic respect, and not worrying about whether or not they appreciate it. I'll give up a seat on a bus for a pregnant woman or an elderly or disabled person (not that I ride buses all that often anyway), but not for anybody else, irrespective of their gender.
Golfilla Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 And what type of sane man would settle for that? If you have low self-esteem and don't love yourself then clearly you're not going to attract anyone but flies. Exactly. It always astonishes me when people talk about women supposedly "wanting drama" or "wanting to be treated like crap", or "I didn't get a date with her because she wanted to be slapped around" or whatever. I'm sure there are women like that in the world, but they're the last people I'd want a relationship with (irrespective of how "hot" they are). Heck, if a woman ditches me for a "jerk", I look upon that as a bullet dodged.
samsungxoxo Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 (edited) But given it's a majority of women, are you suggesting that the majority of men just accept that htey will have nobody in their lives because of the mathematics of this? Where are you meeting them? Almost everyone I talked to is alright with themselves and isn't into begging if someone shows no interest in them. Not suggesting they got nothing in their lives but I'm asking if that was true, then why would someone settle for a person like that? I think it works similar ways: Imagine seeing a woman crying constantly about how all men are abusers and cheaters. What man wants that? Same with a man complaining about how he got dumped and how miserable he's in life, asking constantly when he will ever get laid. No sane woman wants that either. Edited January 23, 2010 by samsungxoxo
yah Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Chivalry is not dead but it is just harder to find. In my relationship, my bf picks me up and opens all doors for me. I never asked him to do it, it is just the way he is and I always show my appreciation to him. I think that makes him want to do it again next time, b/c he knows I love it so much! I have seen some women on here bemoaning the lack of chivalry in today's men and I have noticed that it is an idea that is pretty much on it's last legs. I will post my thoughts later but I want to know what people think is reponsible for it's demise.
GAchasen Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Chivalry is not dead but it is just harder to find. In my relationship, my bf picks me up and opens all doors for me. I never asked him to do it, it is just the way he is and I always show my appreciation to him. I think that makes him want to do it again next time, b/c he knows I love it so much! And that's because he respects you!!!~~~
Author Woggle Posted January 24, 2010 Author Posted January 24, 2010 Here is my take. Since the the 70s women have constantly given men the I don't need a man line which was so famously summed up when Gloria Steniam said that a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. Even though she completely sold out everything she believed and got married herself her ideas stuck. I was just a baby in the late 70s but I hear the stories from men who got dirty looks, hostility and sometimes even violence for holding open doors and being a gentlemen and many of these men still seem bitter about it. After so many encounters with hostility a man stops even trying. Women might not be as hostile these days but the misandry is still evident if you are dare to be in the same space as a woman and she deems you unworthy. I don't now how many times I have simply smiled at a woman simply to get a dirty look and one times I was accused of being a rapist simply for trying to return a woman's cellphone. As a result I simply pretend like strange women are not there and if one is friendly to be I am downright hostile. Let them see how it feels when the shoe is on the other foot. The other part is that most women simply are users today. They take what they want men and could not care less if they hurt us or not. Look at the endless amount of threads from women who are unhappy with chivalrous gentlemen and look at the threads from men who treated their women like princesses only to have them dump or cheat on them for some smooth player who whispered the right things in her ear. Women today for the most part simply do not truly love a man or care for him in any way other than how he can boost her ego. With the walkaway wife epidemic and women who use dates only to get free meals it does not exactly inspire men to want to be chivalrous. Why would I want to hold open a door for a woman who would probably high five my ex wife for cheating on me and if she has a man is probably having an affair on him herself? Men love to be gentlemen when it is appreciated but women today show zero appreciation for anything good a man does and instead act like entitled princesses who deserve it because they are born female. This is what killed chivalry.
betamanlet Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 But what exactly IS a guy like you? On the one hand, you claim to be a "nice, stable dependable guy", and then two posts later you're openly advocating violence against women. So which is it? Perhaps you should decide which side of the fence you actually sit on. In answer to the original question, it's a combination of things. There's no doubt that feminism played a big part. If a man gets chewed out for holding a door open for a woman, or buys her dinner only to see her date someone else, he's soon going to stop doing what doesn't work. Then there's the way people are brought up, which seems to be amplified by the media which tells us that life is all about instant gratification and getting as much as you can, and screw everyone else (in more ways than one). I think it's pretty much on it's last legs, and will disappear completely in a generation or two. FWIW, I make a point of treating all people (men or women) with basic respect, and not worrying about whether or not they appreciate it. I'll give up a seat on a bus for a pregnant woman or an elderly or disabled person (not that I ride buses all that often anyway), but not for anybody else, irrespective of their gender. I openly advocate violence against women?
Golfilla Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 I openly advocate violence against women? I believe this was the thread in question: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t214033/ And on your board you've done it many times. As I said before, you need to decide which personality is really you. If you're the "nice guy", you'll have to learn to respect women's choices, even if they involve dating men other than yourself. If you're the "jerk", you'll need to stop trying to pass yourself off as a "nice guy".
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