paddington bear Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Scientific studies have shown that women are more empathetic than men - (however some men fall into the category of being more empathetic and some women fall into the category of not having much empathy). But in general women are said to be more empathetic than their male counterparts. I was just reading this: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/26/business/media/26melodrama.html About how men could express their emotions when not emotionally connected to a true story. "Professor Argo speculates that men feel released from gender constraints on showing emotion when dealing with fiction or fantasy (which may also explain why men cry when Spock dies in “The Wrath of Khan”)." Anyone think this is true or valid? And if you think it is true, does that mean men cannot empathise within their own relationship (their own true story) and have no ability to put themselves in their partner's shoes (why is she so upset that I forgot it was Valentine's Day)? Thoughts? This a load of nonsense or some truth to it?
Tony T Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 I think definitely true for most men. Males don't like to feel emotionally vulnerable, especially before a lady they are trying to impress. Once they know here well, they'll be more open. It's a macho thing that I don't think will disappear for many evolutionary cycles. I hate like hell when I'm teared up at the end of a movie and the lights come on. I feel like a fool...I'm a man. Hell, I get teared up sometimes when the women are perfectly unaffected...and I don't like that at all.
meerkat stew Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Oh come on it was SPOCK for goodness sakes, that's almost like Ole Yeller!
carolinawanderer Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 I think this is a load of BS. Through my last relationship, I think I was a far more empathetic person than my ex.
Itzo Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Scientific studies have shown that women are more empathetic than men - (however some men fall into the category of being more empathetic and some women fall into the category of not having much empathy). But in general women are said to be more empathetic than their male counterparts. I was just reading this: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/26/business/media/26melodrama.html About how men could express their emotions when not emotionally connected to a true story. "Professor Argo speculates that men feel released from gender constraints on showing emotion when dealing with fiction or fantasy (which may also explain why men cry when Spock dies in “The Wrath of Khan”)." Anyone think this is true or valid? And if you think it is true, does that mean men cannot empathise within their own relationship (their own true story) and have no ability to put themselves in their partner's shoes (why is she so upset that I forgot it was Valentine's Day)? Thoughts? This a load of nonsense or some truth to it? Most men usually do not express their emotions ... for instance, I had this limited belief that expressing emotions is for the weak people & I was suppressing or trying to control them, resisting ... that caused anxiety later. So for men who are reading this post. DO not do it! You may be able to block certain emotion with analisys & logic, but IT CAN ONLY BE SUPPRESSED, NOT ELIMINATED. So sooner or later it will come back again & you will end up with sh*t out of luck So I do not know, if men express their emotions better with some fantasy, rather something real. If a man do not remember certain event, it means that it is not significant enough for him to remember it. People remember better through emotional moments.
Trialbyfire Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 People with low empathy (mostly men) who believed the stories to be fantasies liked them much better than those who were told the stories were factual. The reverse held true for people with high empathy, who were mostly women.I'd like to know how they defined that people have high or low empathy. IMO, men are raised to be more self-centric. When this happens, even if they have natural empathy, they've learned to ignore or devalue it, since it can prevent being able to "succeed".
meerkat stew Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Just reread the link. To inject some snobbery , one only has to read the following phrases "New York Times," "associate marketing professor," and "Journal of Consumer Research," to avoid the need to read anything further about the study. Yes, that's blatant ad hominem, and yes I'm sticking to it. Moreover, no percentages or numbers whatsoever (other than the pitifully small test subject group), nor discussion of any methodological aspects is the sign of a bogus "fluff-study" likely commissioned by or intended to be sold to corporate interests in need of making some PR point or in need of a particular Powerpoint slide.
cognac Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Women have more empathy? A real man is empathetic without being hysterical. That's how I am atleast. Crying over every little thing doesn't mean you're more empathetic. It's not that men don't feel empathy, it's that many things women expect us to be empathetic about are frankly stupid. Valetine's day example is a great testament to this, I personally find valetines day to be really dumb and a phoney holiday. On the other hand, sure there are some movies that move me (the final charge in the movie The Last Samurai always chokes me up LOL) when they portray some kind of moving value like heroism or comradery. In my opinion men are even more empathetic than women are, just about different things and in a different way. When I see something that I feel is unfair I don't cry about it, I find a rational way to fix it if there is a way.
Alma Mobley Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 Their methods are discussed in the actual study, not in the NYT article reporting on the study. If curious, you can find the actual study here.
betamanlet Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 I don't believe women are more empathetic towards others, they expect others to be empathetic towards them. Women are much much more self absorbed than the average guy is. Men often make many more personal sacrifices than women do.
meerkat stew Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 Their methods are discussed in the actual study, not in the NYT article reporting on the study. If curious, you can find the actual study here. Yes, I realize they weren't discussed in the NYT article and my question is why not even summary statistical conclusions were discussed? The answer, I now know, is because they aren't statistically significant, given all the variables in such a study. I'm biased against marketing studies admittedly. Thanks for linking the study, my suspicions were confirmed by skimming it.
betamanlet Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 I'll prove my point. If you ask women, 98% them would agree that a guy who allows himself to be taken advantage of, deserves to be. So hence why nice guys are treated poorly, women believe nice guys deserve being taken advantage of because they allow themselves to be. Whereas very few men would take advantage of someone. I've found myself in situations where there are people desprate for friendship, companionship, and I could have SO taken advantage of them, but I absolutely refused them, and even told them that if they are like this with other people, they will get used left and right....
Woggle Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 You will see just how heartless and devoid of empathy most women can be when they blame you for all their unhappiness in life.
meerkat stew Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 Betamanlet, it's because many women have been socially brainwashed into believing men are the enemy, and don't perceive bad things done to an enemy as wrong.
betamanlet Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 You will see just how heartless and devoid of empathy most women can be when they blame you for all their unhappiness in life. I'm not too sure, women can be more empathetic to say animals, or causes, but it really seems like when they say they like a "sensitive" guy, it means a guy sensitive to their needs. Not just plain "sensitive".. I think women are very very egocentric (self absorbed) they way everybody was when they were children. As a child, you literally think the world revolves around you, but you have to grow up, and realize that it's not that way. I think women get very spoiled, and it's the fault of men, because they will do anything to get women, and will put up with horrible behavior, etc just to have sex, so we really have ourserlves to blame.
Woggle Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 Women like taking care of things like animals but many of them do not know how to interact with adults and especially with men. Women can get downright evil when resentment creeps and it takes almost nothing for a woman to start resenting a man.
betamanlet Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 Women like taking care of things like animals but many of them do not know how to interact with adults and especially with men. Women can get downright evil when resentment creeps and it takes almost nothing for a woman to start resenting a man. I think you're forgetting the fact about how competitive women are with each other, they are quite nasty with each other, and very few people know what it's like to have a genuine friend of the same sex. They are just hyper competitive. I know very few women who are able to keep friendships last for more than a few years, let alone life long friendships. I have friends that I have been friends with since middle school. All the stuff like clothes, having the best house, the "perfect guy" is so that they can show off to their "friends"..
meerkat stew Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 Yeah, the whole male/female empathy question has lots of angles. At parties these days, with a mix of married and single friends, the guys are all out on the porch telling funny stories or talking about current events, while the women are all inside running down whatever woman happens to not be there.
carhill Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 I have noted, amongst small, close-knit groups of males, the tendency to be openly emotional and/or empathetic is more likely to be seen. This involves substantial trust; trust that displayed vulnerability will not be used as a competitive advantage. The interesting thing is that I will sometimes hear from their wives that they (the men) are not compassionate or caring, where my perception of their words and/or actions, both within the group and out in the world, is a polar opposite. Perspective is an interesting concept. If a man do not remember certain event, it means that it is not significant enough for him to remember it. People remember better through emotional moments. When my mother was analyzed to diagnose dementia, the research team gave me some important data and theory regarding emotional memory and its effect in the disease process. Essentially, even if the patient could not form a new cognitive memory of an event, if that event had an emotional component, the patient would remember how they felt. For example, if my mom said the sky was pink and I said, no mom, it's blue, and this angered her, she would not remember the incident, but that I angered her. She connected the emotion to me with no specificity. I got some real exercises in male empathy there, trust me.
Alma Mobley Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 Yes, I realize they weren't discussed in the NYT article and my question is why not even summary statistical conclusions were discussed? The answer, I now know, is because they aren't statistically significant, given all the variables in such a study. I'm biased against marketing studies admittedly. Thanks for linking the study, my suspicions were confirmed by skimming it. Mainstream media reporting on almost any study is usually shoddy and often disgraceful. You're welcome! I was curious to see the original study myself.
cognac Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 I'll prove my point. If you ask women, 98% them would agree that a guy who allows himself to be taken advantage of, deserves to be. So hence why nice guys are treated poorly, women believe nice guys deserve being taken advantage of because they allow themselves to be. Whereas very few men would take advantage of someone. I've found myself in situations where there are people desprate for friendship, companionship, and I could have SO taken advantage of them, but I absolutely refused them, and even told them that if they are like this with other people, they will get used left and right.... It actually pisses me off when people (many times women) say that it's OK to take advantage of a person if they are vulnerable or kind. People who do that are the reason this world is so ugly and people (especially in big cosmopolitan areas) have trouble empathizing with other humans. I could never push myself to do such a thing but I see women doing it constantly. I don't feel that generosity, kindness and a humane attitude towards others makes you an idiot or weak at all. Myself I treat my friends like brothers and my enemies with harshness. Nothing beats a close knit group of reliable, resilient, and good hearted male friends, these days it's harder to find this kind of companionship but it's one of the joys of life. Women have a more 'dog-eat-dog' approach to life where everything is a competition about who is the prettiest, richest, and most powerful. I also think it's harder for women to develop close and meaningful friendships with others. Women prefer to be constantly "networking" as they call it, jumping from social group to social group every couple of months depending on what she sees as cooler or exciting at the moment. As soon as Plain Jane coke bottle glasses buys contacts and gets accepted into that sorority, siyanora glee club.
Skump Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 FWIW, the brain regions that process emotion aren't as tightly coupled to those that actuate physical displays of emotion in men as compared to women. IOW, men can feel worse without showing it. Men are also cognitively biased toward low-context communication, and are thus more apt to ignore non-verbal cues. These issues have to be taken into account in any consideration of whether men are more or less "empathetic" than women.
boogieboy Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 And if you think it is true, does that mean men cannot empathise within their own relationship (their own true story) and have no ability to put themselves in their partner's shoes (why is she so upset that I forgot it was Valentine's Day)? The only reason that men wouldnt understand why a woman is upset about valentines day, is because that man and that women havent communicated to each other about what they want, and how it translates to each other. Weve seen it too many times on this board how people dont speak the same love language, and get upset when their partner doesnt automatically speak their language. You cant have empathy for what you dont understand, regardless of the gender. Men have the ability to empathise, we just like to logically comprehend what were empathising for first....and then figure out from there if we even care. Example. I wouldnt give a shyt about valentines day if women didnt make a big stink over it. If I do something ,its for her, and not me. If I forgot and she was upset, I know that she thinks its because im not appreciating her. Then I'd have to go into a diatribe about it....I just lost interest in my explanation.
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