conehead Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) I see that a lot on here in threads. The guy is unreliable, or he cheats, or he can't quite smoking for you eventhough you have a baby on the way, or he etc etc etc....is he that way because he's just not that into you and thus you are not worth him being reliable, faithful, and quitting smoking for etc etc etc? That somehow implies that perhaps if you were someone he WAS into then he would be reliable, faithful, and quit smoking for. Is there truth to that? Or perhaps, the guy is just a douche?? I suppose I always see alot of girls here blame themselves for the guy's wrongdoing, or saying stuff like 'if he only he were more into me if I was prettier, smarter, etc' then he wouldnt be this way' and it takes a huge hit to their self-esteem! Just curious. Edited January 22, 2010 by conehead Link to post Share on other sites
betamanlet Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I see that a lot on here in threads. The guy is unreliable, or he cheats, or he can't quite smoking for you eventhough you have a baby on the way, or he etc etc etc....is he that way because he's just not that into you and thus you are not worth him being reliable, faithful, and quitting smoking for etc etc etc? That somehow implies that perhaps if you were someone he WAS into then he would be reliable, faithful, and quit smoking for. Is there truth to that? Or perhaps, the guy is just a douche?? I suppose I always see alot of girls here blame themselves for the guy's wrongdoing, or saying stuff like 'if he only he were more into me if I was prettier, smarter, etc' and it takes a huge hit to their self-esteem! Just curious. These guys give them something to complain about, it gives them drama, hence why women would prefer these guys than guys they have no complaints about, becuase that's boring to them. Women require drama, so they'd much rather be with a guy they can complain about than a guy who they find boring.. Being faithful is not a "challenge" hence boring. If you're a faithful guy, you get dumped. Link to post Share on other sites
USMCHokie Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 That somehow implies that perhaps if you were someone he WAS into then he would be reliable, faithful, and quit smoking for. Is there truth to that? Or perhaps, the guy is just a douche?? Yes and no. During the early stages of dating or a relationship, both parties will put their best foot forward and make themselves as attractive and appealing as they can be to their partner. However, people cannot hide their natural behaviors and traits forever, and as the relationship progresses, these natural tendencies will shine through, both the good and bad. Regardless of how interested a person is and how willing they might be to change for their partner, we all know such drastic changes are difficult and sometimes impossible. It's not a matter of a person's interest or their douchiness...it's a matter of who they naturally are... Beta's post about challenge also has some merit, but again it depends on the person...younger women might enjoy the 'excitement' and 'drama' that comes with a 'challenging' guy, but many will grow out of it in the interests of a stable life. Yet some others will not...either because they don't value that stable, 'boring,' white-picket fence life...or they are too addicted to the challenge. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Or perhaps, the guy is just a douche?? no, the guy is just a guy...women secretly love it when their guy misbehaves Link to post Share on other sites
soulm8 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Women require drama, so they'd much rather be with a guy they can complain about than a guy who they find boring.. Being faithful is not a "challenge" hence boring. If you're a faithful guy, you get dumped. no, the guy is just a guy...women secretly love it when their guy misbehaves No no no! Women react to misbehaviour based on their past experiences, what they've seen in movies, and by the level they deem the misbehaviour to be. Our gender is conditioned right from the get go that "prince charming" is out there. When "prince charming" does something to confuse us or rattle our cage, we don't love it!! What we do, is analyze the hell out of it and try to figure out why he did this... we put ourselves in his shoes and also try to read between the lines for any signals that his behaviour was meant to simply shake us up, or was a forgiveable mistake, or... if he's just not that into us. It's not that being faithful or nice is boring! Every woman has her own needs and desires that make her happy and it's a complete mistake to assume that once you've got her hooked that she'll stay on the hook. There is such a thing as being TOO nice... so nice that she gets bored. Always leave her wanting more from YOU... be a bit challenging in a playfully fun, teasing way and never let on that she's in control. Link to post Share on other sites
meerkat stew Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 These guys give them something to complain about, it gives them drama, hence why women would prefer these guys than guys they have no complaints about, becuase that's boring to them. Women require drama, so they'd much rather be with a guy they can complain about than a guy who they find boring.. Being faithful is not a "challenge" hence boring. If you're a faithful guy, you get dumped. The above is pretty much it in a nutshell. Denied it forever as being hackneyed, but have experienced the exact same thing over and over and over so many times. It's just the way it is. When I'm "on" and funny and having a blast, and doing exciting things, they are all "in love" and butterflies in the tummy. The minute real life intrudes, that I have to work for two straight days and can't coddle them with attention, the minute I have a bad event in life like the death of a family member and need to mourn for a few days, it starts to crumble. They start to turn inward on themselves and there is nothing to turn inward to because they have always derived every shred of meaning in life from a man. This leads to boredom or insecurity alternatively, and either of those paths is the beginning of the end. One would think that people wouldn't need to be told that life is not a fairy tale or Disney movie, and in that one would be wrong. The types of women who buy "He's Not that into You" relationship self-help books are the types that betamanlet is describing. This is so because rather than develop their own lives, sense of self, and their own pleasure and excitement in life, they seek to leech that off of men, even to the extent of buying books and spending spare time dwelling on relationships, rather than spending the time creating their own independent lives and learning to derive excitement and joy internally. Thankfully, this is fading out, it seems more and more women are becoming self-actualized as opposed to externally actualized. I like a lot of what I see in the 25-35 y.o. crop of women out there. They seem better than what I got stuck with, the Sex and the City fantasy/luxury addicts. My mother's and grandmother's generations weren't like that, my younger friends' generations aren't like that. Sometimes I feel caught in the middle, and wish I'd been born 20-30 years later than I was. Link to post Share on other sites
soulm8 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) I suppose I always see alot of girls here blame themselves for the guy's wrongdoing, or saying stuff like 'if he only he were more into me if I was prettier, smarter, etc' then he wouldnt be this way' and it takes a huge hit to their self-esteem! Women have a tendency to internalize and personalize wrong doing against them until they truly love themselves and know better. Bad habits are difficult to break for men and women... you can adore someone but still not be able to quit smoking for them. The whole "he'd do this if he really loved me" is crap and manipulation. Edited January 22, 2010 by soulm8 Link to post Share on other sites
boogieboy Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I see that a lot on here in threads. The guy is unreliable, or he cheats, or he can't quite smoking for you eventhough you have a baby on the way, or he etc etc etc....is he that way because he's just not that into you and thus you are not worth him being reliable, faithful, and quitting smoking for etc etc etc? That somehow implies that perhaps if you were someone he WAS into then he would be reliable, faithful, and quit smoking for. Is there truth to that? Or perhaps, the guy is just a douche?? No thats the way this guy is. He wouldnt change anything for a woman he was into. No no no! Women react to misbehaviour based on their past experiences, what they've seen in movies, and by the level they deem the misbehaviour to be. Our gender is conditioned right from the get go that "prince charming" is out there. When "prince charming" does something to confuse us or rattle our cage, we don't love it!! What we do, is analyze the hell out of it and try to figure out why he did this... we put ourselves in his shoes and also try to read between the lines for any signals that his behaviour was meant to simply shake us up, or was a forgiveable mistake, or... if he's just not that into us. It's not that being faithful or nice is boring! Every woman has her own needs and desires that make her happy and it's a complete mistake to assume that once you've got her hooked that she'll stay on the hook. There is such a thing as being TOO nice... so nice that she gets bored. Always leave her wanting more from YOU... be a bit challenging in a playfully fun, teasing way and never let on that she's in control. You dont even realize that you just proved betamanlets point, please dont encourage him. Link to post Share on other sites
meerkat stew Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Every woman has her own needs and desires that make her happy and it's a complete mistake to assume that once you've got her hooked that she'll stay on the hook. There is such a thing as being TOO nice... so nice that she gets bored. I hear you, and from the perspective of someone who's never in his life been "too nice," the too nice thing is a cop out. What I've refused to be is a drama-junkie codependent with them. I hear over and over, even see threads here, "he's too passive, he doesn't care what we do, he doesn't care what I wear," and it may be cynical, but when I hear this stuff it translates into "he doesn't want to keep the door open to constant drama, keep things stirred up constantly, and keep my stunted sense of self occupied like a soap drama and away from the emptiness resting in my soul." I don't know if it's a maternal thing, a culture thing, what, but I haven't dated a woman in 7 years who wasn't on SSRIs and showing pronounced traits of some personality disorder. And to preempt, men don't pick women, we date who picks us out of those we display for. I LIKE it when my woman says "I don't care, I just want to spend time with you." LIFE throws plenty of hard choices and curveballs at us every day without constantly having a preference of how my hair is done, what thai food we have tonight, what dress should you wear. Most of what women complain about when they say a man is "too passive" is that he just could give a rat's ass about minutiae. That's the truth for me, it's personality disorder cases who always need a dangling string to keep them from returning to the pain they carry around. Those are the ones who have this constant desire to have someone be "into" them. Whatever happened to living together in harmony. I don't think our parents and grandparents conditioned their happiness on whether their SO was constantly "into" them or not. So no, it's not about being boring, nice or complacent (things I've NEVER been accused of) but failing to maintain a constant amusement park atmosphere "I'm so into you!" playground for daddy's little Veruka Salt all grown up. OK, OP, there's how one man feels about the "he's not that into you concept" and it explains how I think lots of men view relationships with ongoing trepidation these days. Why be "into" a woman who is not into herself? And good luck weeding out the few who are emotionally healthy and into themselves. Frankly, I haven't gotten to the point of being "into" someone in a long time, they are so messed up that it's a near impossibility to get "into" them. Link to post Share on other sites
OnlyJake Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) The above is pretty much it in a nutshell. Denied it forever as being hackneyed, but have experienced the exact same thing over and over and over so many times. It's just the way it is. When I'm "on" and funny and having a blast, and doing exciting things, they are all "in love" and butterflies in the tummy. The minute real life intrudes, that I have to work for two straight days and can't coddle them with attention, the minute I have a bad event in life like the death of a family member and need to mourn for a few days, it starts to crumble. They start to turn inward on themselves and there is nothing to turn inward to because they have always derived every shred of meaning in life from a man. This leads to boredom or insecurity alternatively, and either of those paths is the beginning of the end. One would think that people wouldn't need to be told that life is not a fairy tale or Disney movie, and in that one would be wrong. The types of women who buy "He's Not that into You" relationship self-help books are the types that betamanlet is describing. This is so because rather than develop their own lives, sense of self, and their own pleasure and excitement in life, they seek to leech that off of men, even to the extent of buying books and spending spare time dwelling on relationships, rather than spending the time creating their own independent lives and learning to derive excitement and joy internally. Thankfully, this is fading out, it seems more and more women are becoming self-actualized as opposed to externally actualized. I like a lot of what I see in the 25-35 y.o. crop of women out there. They seem better than what I got stuck with, the Sex and the City fantasy/luxury addicts. My mother's and grandmother's generations weren't like that, my younger friends' generations aren't like that. Sometimes I feel caught in the middle, and wish I'd been born 20-30 years later than I was. Excellent post. Falling harder all the time! LoL Edited January 22, 2010 by OnlyJake Link to post Share on other sites
paddington bear Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) I remember when I first watched that episode of Sex and the City where this concept was mentioned and it was like a 'eureka' moment for Miranda. It gave her relief to think 'oh, maybe he just wasn't into me, the way I sometimes am not that into guys, I shouldn't take it so personally'. I also read the book, and being honest, it kind of depressed me, because it was like 'if he does this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this, it means he's not into you' and I remember thinking, 'well...what's left?' At the time I was going out with a guy who 'was just not that into me' and I simply couldn't accept it. I turned his politeness and friendliness into meaning that he did like me more but that he was 'too afraid of getting hurt, or ruining our friendship'. Which was a load of BS and me simply lying to myself because I couldn't face up to the fact that someone I liked, simply wasn't attracted to me back in the same way. The book did help me (to a degree). I've realised a few things: If I'm constantly trying to figure out what a guy that I really like meant in a certain text, or what his behaviour meant, or if he really meant what he said (was there some secret meaning there relating to what his feelings about me?) and so on it means there is something very wrong going on. When women have this kind of obsessive uneasiness about some guy they are into, it means basically that it's not any kind of easy relationship from the offset, that you are trying to mould the man's behaviour or words into being what you want them to be i.e. that he is attracted to you and wants you in the same way you want him. The book in a nutshell: actions speak louder than words, don't convince yourself of someone's affection just because that's the outcome you want, when all evidence points to the contrary, you just don't want to see it. I don't analyse now, if he wants to see me, he will, if he wants to call, he will, if he's interested, he'll show it. This prevents me from a) ringing incessantly like some psycho because I'm so afraid that he'll forget me and to remind him over and over that he said he'd call but didn't b) sitting in waiting for the phone to ring for days c) pining after some guy who was obviously never interested in the first place - so it keeps my inner insecure crazy lady in check and men don't like psycho girls who don't get the message that they're just not bothered, so it's kind of beneficial to both sexes IMO Men speak their minds 'I just want to be friends' 'I'm busy right now' - take them at their word (except when they say 'I'll call you!' which as we all know is a total lie and means you'll never hear from them again) Edited January 22, 2010 by paddington bear Link to post Share on other sites
Author conehead Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 Posters, seems like most of you here agree that the 'He's just not into you' concept is B.S. However, why is it that on LS, people seem to use it so much! It's like, when a poster complains 'he is treating me badly because....', a fellow LSer often replies with 'because he's just not into you.' Now I'm not saying that the ones who post in THIS thread are necessarily doing this, but I see it a lot on this board and find it quite sad. I mean, a lot of these girls and guys get drilled into their head here that if they don't get proper treatment it's because their SO don't love THEM enough. And eventhough it's not directly stated, it's very easy for a girl or guy to draw from this the conclusion that perhaps they aren't special/worthwhile enough, as opposed to perhaps it really is just the SO who is not able to live up to his/her own responsiblities Link to post Share on other sites
meerkat stew Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Oh, and another thing, the "man with bad habits who won't change" is such a straw man. In actuality, the bad habits most women try to "fix" about men are not true bad habits but style. For every woman with a smoking, druggy, criminal SO out there, there are 10 with guys whom they don't like that hairstyle or this t-shirt, or that particular friend who's always around or that little quirk he does. Don't couch the "bad habits" as real vices, it's dishonest, and usually not the case. Sure, there are exceptions, but for the most parts, the habits women cite (other than the one who was smoking weed five times a day and carrying a pipe to work ) the things women cite here that annoy them about men are fairly trivial. Witness what a pet peeve not changing a tire without help was in a recent thread. C'mon, really? Not changing a tire? Sometimes men gripe that there's no pleasing women, that if you fix whatever they are griping about, they will just move on to something else and continue griping. There's lots of truth to that. Link to post Share on other sites
meerkat stew Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Excellent post. Falling harder all the time! LoL Well then where's my note with a condom in it, Missy? I got the rascal scooter all charged up! Link to post Share on other sites
Author conehead Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 I remember when I first watched that episode of Sex and the City where this concept was mentioned and it was like a 'eureka' moment for Miranda. It gave her relief to think 'oh, maybe he just wasn't into me, the way I sometimes am not that into guys, I shouldn't take it so personally'. I also read the book, and being honest, it kind of depressed me, because it was like 'if he does this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this, it means he's not into you' and I remember thinking, 'well...what's left?' At the time I was going out with a guy who 'was just not that into me' and I simply couldn't accept it. I turned his politeness and friendliness into meaning that he did like me more but that he was 'too afraid of getting hurt, or ruining our friendship'. Which was a load of BS and me simply lying to myself because I couldn't face up to the fact that someone I liked, simply wasn't attracted to me back in the same way. The book did help me (to a degree). I've realised a few things: If I'm constantly trying to figure out what a guy that I really like meant in a certain text, or what his behaviour meant, or if he really meant what he said (was there some secret meaning there relating to what his feelings about me?) and so on it means there is something very wrong going on. When women have this kind of obsessive uneasiness about some guy they are into, it means basically that it's not any kind of easy relationship from the offset, that you are trying to mould the man's behaviour or words into being what you want them to be i.e. that he is attracted to you and wants you in the same way you want him. The book in a nutshell: actions speak louder than words, don't convince yourself of someone's affection just because that's the outcome you want, when all evidence points to the contrary, you just don't want to see it. I don't analyse now, if he wants to see me, he will, if he wants to call, he will, if he's interested, he'll show it. This prevents me from a) ringing incessantly like some psycho because I'm so afraid that he'll forget me and to remind him over and over that he said he'd call but didn't b) sitting in waiting for the phone to ring for days c) pining after some guy who was obviously never interested in the first place - so it keeps my inner insecure crazy lady in check and men don't like psycho girls who don't get the message that they're just not bothered, so it's kind of beneficial to both sexes IMO Men speak their minds 'I just want to be friends' 'I'm busy right now' - take them at their word (except when they say 'I'll call you!' which as we all know is a total lie and means you'll never hear from them again) I get where you're getting it and it appears that in some cases yes, a guy is just not that into you. I read that book too, and what bothers me is that it applies that concept to basically EVERYTHING in a relationship. It's like if the guy is distant (cuz someone in his family died) then he's just not that into you because if he was then he wouldn't be distant NO MATTER WHAT....ok thats just one example but I mean the book is extreme like that sort of. But I mean, there are actually other reasons too I think. Such as if a guy cant' quit smoking its not because he doesnt love you enough, its because quitting is really hard! Or if a guy cheats, the book will say he's just not into you, which you can say is true to an extent, but girls take this as 'he only did it cuz he's not into me, cuz I can't keep him faithful, i failed' as opposed to 'there is no excuse for cheating! Moral people do not cheat!' Link to post Share on other sites
OnlyJake Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Well then where's my note with a condom in it, Missy? I got the rascal scooter all charged up! I need to brainstorm all my quirks, vices and potential personality disorders first....I'll include an itemized list with the condom. Link to post Share on other sites
paddington bear Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Posters, seems like most of you here agree that the 'He's just not into you' concept is B.S. However, why is it that on LS, people seem to use it so much! It's like, when a poster complains 'he is treating me badly because....', a fellow LSer often replies with 'because he's just not into you.' Now I'm not saying that the ones who post in THIS thread are necessarily doing this, but I see it a lot on this board and find it quite sad. I mean, a lot of these girls and guys get drilled into their head here that if they don't get proper treatment it's because their SO don't love THEM enough. And eventhough it's not directly stated, it's very easy for a girl or guy to draw from this the conclusion that perhaps they aren't special/worthwhile enough, as opposed to perhaps it really is just the SO who is not able to live up to his/her own responsiblities 1) Why would you treat someone badly if you were into them??? 2) "If you don't get proper treatment from your SO, then maybe they don't love you enough"...this concept is not about getting showered with gifts and compliments day after day and being run after and treated like a princess within a relationship. It's about not wracking your brains as to why that guy said he'd call and then didn't (not interested), it's about why a guy you thought liked you suddenly says he wants to just be friends (not interested). It's about not wasting time trying to convince yourself that these guys really do like you, when it's obvious they don't. It's about how women misread men's signals in the early stages of dating. Link to post Share on other sites
meerkat stew Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 However, why is it that on LS, people seem to use it so much! People often give cliches without meaning to on forums. I'm certainly guilty of it. But the kernel of truth for men and women in the "he's not that into you" is that often we are capable of creating a relationship out of thin air, or aspects of a relationship. Sometimes we want to believe something so fiercely that we look past the elephant in the room to get to the reality we desperately crave. Bluntness such as "He's not into you" can help bring someone back to earth. Link to post Share on other sites
meerkat stew Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I need to brainstorm all my quirks, vices and potential personality disorders first....I'll include an itemized list with the condom. Touche, btw, only the PDs are killas, I like all quirks and most vices Link to post Share on other sites
boogieboy Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 it's very easy for a girl or guy to draw from this the conclusion that perhaps they aren't special/worthwhile enough, as opposed to perhaps it really is just the SO who is not able to live up to his/her own responsiblities No, people usually forget to understand that SO's do not do EXACTLY what we expect them to do. People dont understand that their SO's shouldnt have to do exactly what you want them to do. The love translation gets all messed up here. You have to let your SO show you love the way THEY are comfortable doing it, not the way YOU want them to. Link to post Share on other sites
OnlyJake Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Touche, btw, only the PDs are killas, I like all quirks and most vices I've concluded I have lots of quirks, few vices, and no PDs. I've further concluded that I wouldn't give up any quirks for a guy; ditto on most vices. And he better not be a vodka snob Link to post Share on other sites
meerkat stew Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I've concluded I have lots of quirks, few vices, and no PDs. << crankin up the spraytan machine, gettin out a new box of CO2 cartridges for the penile implants, and polishin the bling Link to post Share on other sites
OnlyJake Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 << crankin up the spraytan machine, gettin out a new box of CO2 cartridges for the penile implants, and polishin the bling Unfortunately, one of my vices isn't men with fake tans and "bling" I'm withholding judgment on the penile implants. If you don't stop tanning, does that mean you're just not that into me? Link to post Share on other sites
meerkat stew Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Unfortunately, one of my vices isn't men with fake tans and "bling" I'm withholding judgment on the penile implants. Package deal, you gotta take the spraytan and the bling to get to the penile implants. Sorry, can't break the set... and I'm gonna tell you something, those penile implants are state of the art, black market Singapore pirate technology. I had to sell one of my cousin's kidneys just to pay the smuggling fee. Carbon-titanium casing operating on CO2 cartridges and tiny fusion cells. 6482 rpm. Link to post Share on other sites
OndaChin Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 (edited) ONDACHIN'S LAW: "A man is seldom ever into a woman as much- when she expects or demands his gestures of attention. It occurs, only when he desires to be into her- literally." Meaning- "He's just not into you... RIGHT NOW" Give it a few days, weeks, months and some beers- he'll beat your door down when the hormones are raging! Never fails. *This is even true for men who get into fights with women they hate. We hate you only for alittle while. Give us alittle time and we'll always come back. Disclaimer: We come back (Just not for all the right reasons) . Edited January 23, 2010 by OndaChin Link to post Share on other sites
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