Author Absolutely Curtains Posted January 22, 2010 Author Posted January 22, 2010 To boogieboy and Lizzie: Thanks for your responses He does talk about marriage, all the time, but he hasn't made any concrete steps toward making that happen, like saving for a ring. This is part of the reason I feel that asking me to move in with him might be just his only end result; maybe he's using comments and discussions about marriage as a carrot on a string. Also, I would NEVER take his house in a divorce; however he's already brought up the idea of a prenup if we got married, which I would sign in a heartbeat.
sonicranger Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) I think I might be worried that if we live together, he'll never propose. Or that this is his way of stringing me along. As far as the giving up independence thing, I guess I feel that way too, and that's part of the power imbalance. The way I see this situation is this: B/f gives up: independenceone of his currently empty bedrooms for an office for me I give up: independencesome furniturethe security of having my own place I don't really think I gain anything in this situation, whereas he gains someone to help with his bills. I've offered to help with the utilities since I'm there so much but he turned me down (his salary is more than twice as much as mine). We also take turns making dinner right now, and we both clean (I probably do a little more than he does, but that's fine), and we both are really good about doing the dishes because we hate having them in the sink. Usually the person who didn't cook does the dishes afterward. He does all the laundry and I fold it all. I water the plants indoors and feed the cat. He mows the lawn and shovels the front stoop. I'm worried that if I move in I might end up doing all or most of the housework. That might be a completely dumb thing to worry about, but in my experience that's usually what ends up happening. I would have no problem moving in if there was a marriage guarantee beforehand. So, you obviously DO NOT know him as well as you should, IMO, after being together for 2 years. If you cannot have a SERIOUS, sit down, tell me how you feel conversation without anyone getting overly excited then DO NOT move in with him, he's not the one for you. EDIT: Just read your 6:00pm post, if he discusses marriage with you openly then what are you worried about? Ask him if you move in with him is that a substitute for marriage? Is he REALLY serious about marriage or just pretending to shut you up? Honestly, marriage as the "next logical step" is ridiculous. You two should get married because you WANT to be married. Because it's not the same as living together and playing house together! Do you pay rent now? Then you are throwing your money away all the same as paying him money, it's shelter, plain and simple. IMO, your "worries" about moving in with him are clearly caused by some serious, deep seated doubt. The reasons you SHOULD move in with him are listed by you. We also take turns making dinner right now, and we both clean (I probably do a little more than he does, but that's fine), and we both are really good about doing the dishes because we hate having them in the sink. Usually the person who didn't cook does the dishes afterward. He does all the laundry and I fold it all. I water the plants indoors and feed the cat. He mows the lawn and shovels the front stoop. I'm worried that if I move in I might end up doing all or most of the housework. Find out if these things really will WORK with you waking up there everyday. Him leaving the toilet seat up, a messy toothbrush on the sink, stinky socks on the floor...etc. I WANT to move in TOGETHER with my gf either into a house or apartment specifically for these reasons and we're a relatively new couple. Why should I, at age 29, spend my time with someone whom I already care a great deal about, not live together? I want to know if she's the one. I'm not going to find that out by spending the night at her place 2 nights a week and her at mine 3 nights a week. We need to do laundry together, go grocery shopping together, lay on the couch together, take stinky poops in the morning and walk in on the aftermath... Edited January 22, 2010 by sonicranger
Lizzie60 Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 To boogieboy and Lizzie: Thanks for your responses He does talk about marriage, all the time, but he hasn't made any concrete steps toward making that happen, like saving for a ring. This is part of the reason I feel that asking me to move in with him might be just his only end result; maybe he's using comments and discussions about marriage as a carrot on a string. Also, I would NEVER take his house in a divorce; however he's already brought up the idea of a prenup if we got married, which I would sign in a heartbeat. I completely understand your point of view... trust me.. It would annoy me to live with someone knowing nothing will get back to me eventually if it doesn't work out.. From what I read... you resent him, in some way, that he has more than you do..... why can't you make up some kind of 'agreement' before you definitely move with him... I know, for myself, I would never move in with someone.. .I have my own house (condo) and if he owns his house.. we would move to a completely new place.. otherwise I would always have a feeling it's not my home.. Definitely make some type of arrangements if you're going to move with him.. it wouldn't be fair that you pay utilities and food.. and nothing would show that you contributed somehow if you ever split.. How about moving in with him.. but not paying one penny... what would he say about that? only half the utilities, half the food.. then you can put a lot of money in YOUR bank account.. This is a tough one..
Author Absolutely Curtains Posted January 22, 2010 Author Posted January 22, 2010 Find out if these things really will WORK with you waking up there everyday. Him leaving the toilet seat up, a messy toothbrush on the sink, stinky socks on the floor...etc. I WANT to move in TOGETHER with my gf either into a house or apartment specifically for these reasons and we're a relatively new couple. Why should I, at age 29, spend my time with someone whom I already care a great deal about, not live together? I want to know if she's the one. I'm not going to find that out by spending the night at her place 2 nights a week and her at mine 3 nights a week. We need to do laundry together, go grocery shopping together, lay on the couch together, take stinky poops in the morning and walk in on the aftermath... Thanks for your response, sonicranger. I think you missed the part where I said we practically do already live together. In the last several months we've only spent one weekend apart. We already do laundry together, go grocery shopping together, the pooping thing; I already know that he leaves all the toilet seats up, doesn't replace the TP roll, leaves the toothpaste cap off, etc. And to be honest, if those things were dealbreakers, that's ****ing bull****. Anyone that breaks up over **** like that is an idiot.
Author Absolutely Curtains Posted January 22, 2010 Author Posted January 22, 2010 I completely understand your point of view... trust me.. It would annoy me to live with someone knowing nothing will get back to me eventually if it doesn't work out.. From what I read... you resent him, in some way, that he has more than you do..... why can't you make up some kind of 'agreement' before you definitely move with him... I know, for myself, I would never move in with someone.. .I have my own house (condo) and if he owns his house.. we would move to a completely new place.. otherwise I would always have a feeling it's not my home.. Definitely make some type of arrangements if you're going to move with him.. it wouldn't be fair that you pay utilities and food.. and nothing would show that you contributed somehow if you ever split.. How about moving in with him.. but not paying one penny... what would he say about that? only half the utilities, half the food.. then you can put a lot of money in YOUR bank account.. This is a tough one.. I do worry that I would never feel it was my home. I wish I could not help with the mortgage! Talk about a safety net! I would save so much money it would be ridiculous. I definitely would feel obligated though. Do you have any suggestions or advice for other arrangements? I don't think I resent him, exactly, for having more than me, as I'm just so wary of putting myself in a vulnerable position, since that is the case.
Lizzie60 Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Well.. why not make some kind of arrangements.. like... for ONE year or to both your 'convience'... you would stay with him.. and pay half the utilities, each put a certain amount weekly for the groceries, and you could pay him a very small amount for a rent. Then after that time.. if everything goes well... your name would be put on the mortgage.. pro rata for the time you'll spend with him.. the lawyer would deduct the amount that he already have put in the mortgage.. If you're not sure.. why don't you consult with a lawyer, get all your questions ready ... Your bf HAS to understand that you CANNOT move with him.. and contribute as if you were a couple and not have any security... if he disagree.. then it will never work out and you need to make a decision.. or get your own place..
meerkat stew Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Based on latter posts, IMO you aren't ready to move in together. If your priority is marriage, moving into his house could exacerbate your concerns in this area, as you will see everything he does until he offers marriage in a negative light, and better to see negatives from a distance, than to feel trapped with them up close.
Author Absolutely Curtains Posted January 23, 2010 Author Posted January 23, 2010 I definitely don't think I would be ready for marriage in the next year for sure. However, marriage definitely is my end goal, and I guess I'm just not sure if that's his as well, of if this is his way of making it seem like he's making moves when he's really not sure about things.
make me believe Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Wow! I don't know why people are jumping to the conclusion that you must not trust him & should break up with him just because you have doubts about moving in before marriage. The norm nowadays is to move in with your bf/gf after a few months or maybe a year of dating. But what is that getting people? Are people having longer, happier marriages because they lived together first? I don't see evidence of that. In my experience, cohabitation leads to the dragging out of a lot of unhealthy relationships because it makes breaking up so much harder. I don't think it's necessary to live together before marriage. It seems to be a common opinion that you don't "know" somebody until you've lived together, but IMO if you move in with somebody and suddenly discover all kinds of weird habits/quirks/personality traits that you didn't know before, you never really knew them to begin with and probably shouldn't have moved in with somebody you knew so little about.. I'm curious about what exactly everyone is getting to know that they didn't know before moving in. And could these things REALLY not have been discovered without cohabitating? When I moved in with my ex it was pretty much business as usual. No huge surprises lurking around the corner, and I'd only known him for 5 months! Anyway, I would not want to live with somebody to "test things out" before marriage. I can KIND OF understand that line of thinking, but mostly it sounds like you'll be auditioning for the role of his wife. Who wants that stress? After two years, he knows you. He knows your quirks, how you live, etc. He should know whether or not he wants to marry you. Just look at this forum. It is FILLED with people saying "Help! I've been with my bf for 3.5 years, lived together for 3 years, why won't he propose?!" Like I said, I have lived with a boyfriend before. It was a positive experience overall, but it always kinda felt like we were "playing house". Now, I have no interest in living like a married couple until I'm part of a married couple. (Or at least engaged to be a married couple. )
conehead Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Read this thread http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t218250/ It has a lot of great insights on cohabitation. Personally, I wouldn't live with an SO unless we were at least engaged...
silverfish Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 I think that Lizzies suggestion of minimal rent for a year, plus a share of the utilities, so that you can save, is a good one. Either that or wait until you are engaged and go the whole pre nup route. I think you're being sensible if a little cautious, but I've seen a lot of people out on their ear when things dont work out. He'll understand that you need some presonal savings of your own behind you in case of a rainy day - he seems fairly sensible and together from what you've said so I'm sure he'd understand.
OceanTropic Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Can you explain why you think I should give up my lease and officially move in with him, even though we already practically live together? What would change if I moved in with him, that would help him decide if he wants to marry me? I don't think you should give up anything, but personally I don't think its a bad idea. Especially if you guys are considering getting married, I dont see why not? He clearly wants to go a step further since he suggested moving in together to begin with. Well, not much would change, but he would see you at your most naked. What I mean by that, is he would see you wake up in the morning, groom yourself, put makeup on. He would see you cook, or get dressed. It's alot more personal. Even if you have already done this together already, doing in in the presence of a home that is your own, meaning OURS, is much more personal intimate, and I think its an opportunity to grow even more together.
PinkToes Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Practical issues aside (not to minimize; just going a different direction here), I think it's absolutely essential that you be on the same page with your relationship before you move in with someone. Not to say you aren't; I'm just making a suggestion. Doesn't matter what that is, exactly, but if you see marriage as the next step, he should also. If he wants to wait and see how it goes first, you need to agree with that idea before you move in. The problems arise when one partner makes assumptions about what the other person wants, or assumes they will change their view in time. No hidden agendas, that's the safest route.
Author Absolutely Curtains Posted January 23, 2010 Author Posted January 23, 2010 I don't think you should give up anything, but personally I don't think its a bad idea. Especially if you guys are considering getting married, I dont see why not? He clearly wants to go a step further since he suggested moving in together to begin with. Well, not much would change, but he would see you at your most naked. What I mean by that, is he would see you wake up in the morning, groom yourself, put makeup on. He would see you cook, or get dressed. It's alot more personal. Even if you have already done this together already, doing in in the presence of a home that is your own, meaning OURS, is much more personal intimate, and I think its an opportunity to grow even more together. Can you explain how you think it's different to see someone wake up in the morning, groom herself, put on her makeup, cook, and get dressed when you're living together as opposed to when you basically live together, but maintain your own lease on an apartment elsewhere? I don't see what the difference is, or how one is more intimate than the other, to be honest. Practical issues aside (not to minimize; just going a different direction here), I think it's absolutely essential that you be on the same page with your relationship before you move in with someone. Not to say you aren't; I'm just making a suggestion. Doesn't matter what that is, exactly, but if you see marriage as the next step, he should also. If he wants to wait and see how it goes first, you need to agree with that idea before you move in. The problems arise when one partner makes assumptions about what the other person wants, or assumes they will change their view in time. No hidden agendas, that's the safest route. This is probably the biggest issue for me. I guess I think that even if we've talked about this and think we're on the same page, I don't have that much faith in men. I guess I feel like he says he wants to get married, but what he really means is he wants all the perks of marriage with none of the responsibility. Holy **** I hope I'm not a misandrist.
OceanTropic Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Can you explain how you think it's different to see someone wake up in the morning, groom herself, put on her makeup, cook, and get dressed when you're living together as opposed to when you basically live together, but maintain your own lease on an apartment elsewhere? I don't see what the difference is, or how one is more intimate than the other, to be honest. Because when you're both under one roof, its no longer me and you, but its US. Why are you so afraid to give up your apartment? Do you feel you guys might break up? I think you are just insecure, maybe even afraid to give in and trust someone so entirely. I don't blame you, I would have trouble myself. Do married couples have separate leases? No, they don't. And since you two plan on getting married, why not get a head start? Perhaps you can put your name on the lease as well? That way, should anything happen, you will have your half.
Author Absolutely Curtains Posted January 23, 2010 Author Posted January 23, 2010 (edited) Because when you're both under one roof, its no longer me and you, but its US. Why are you so afraid to give up your apartment? Do you feel you guys might break up? I think you are just insecure, maybe even afraid to give in and trust someone so entirely. I don't blame you, I would have trouble myself. Do married couples have separate leases? No, they don't. And since you two plan on getting married, why not get a head start? Perhaps you can put your name on the lease as well? That way, should anything happen, you will have your half. We're already under one roof, for all intents and purposes. It's already "us" not me and you. The only thing that would make it more "us" is if we were married and what's mine is his and what's his is mine was actually the case. How old are you hun? It's a mortgage, not a lease. There's no way in hell any reasonable person would put their SO's name on their house just because they were moving in together. Honestly, if someone did that I would think he was an idiot. Part of the problem is that it's one thing to say "I'd like to marry you some day, let's move in together" and quite another to say "I'd like to marry you in the next xxx time period, and I'm saving up for a ring, let's move in together." If he was serious enough about me to put my name on his house, he'd ****ing propose, not suggest we move in together and see how things go. Edited January 23, 2010 by Absolutely Curtains
silverfish Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Can you explain how you think it's different to see someone wake up in the morning, groom herself, put on her makeup, cook, and get dressed when you're living together as opposed to when you basically live together, but maintain your own lease on an apartment elsewhere? I don't see what the difference is, or how one is more intimate than the other, to be honest. This is probably the biggest issue for me. I guess I think that even if we've talked about this and think we're on the same page, I don't have that much faith in men. I guess I feel like he says he wants to get married, but what he really means is he wants all the perks of marriage with none of the responsibility. Holy **** I hope I'm not a misandrist. Do you have any problem with telling him that last part or someting along those lines...nothing wrong with wanting to get married... I guess the difference is to the first part, that you still have your own place, so you are equal in a way. You giving up your own place and moving into his is a big step...its leaves you a bit vulnerable. I completely understand. There is no easy way round it other than to talk it all through with him.
Author Absolutely Curtains Posted January 23, 2010 Author Posted January 23, 2010 Do you have any problem with telling him that last part or someting along those lines...nothing wrong with wanting to get married... I guess the difference is to the first part, that you still have your own place, so you are equal in a way. You giving up your own place and moving into his is a big step...its leaves you a bit vulnerable. I completely understand. There is no easy way round it other than to talk it all through with him. I haven't specifically said to him all the things I've said here, but I have tried to talk to him about how I feel that he's not ready for all the commitments he claims to be ready for. I haven't pointed out that I feel if he were ready for said commitments he would be proposing, not asking me to move in and asking me to give up so much and increase my commitment to him, while giving nothing in return in terms of commitment. He just gets defensive.
silverfish Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 I haven't specifically said to him all the things I've said here, but I have tried to talk to him about how I feel that he's not ready for all the commitments he claims to be ready for. I haven't pointed out that I feel if he were ready for said commitments he would be proposing, not asking me to move in and asking me to give up so much and increase my commitment to him, while giving nothing in return in terms of commitment. He just gets defensive. Then maybe say to him that you're not ready to move until he's ready to have a conversation about it...give yourself a time limit (say 3 months) dont mention it again til the time limit is up. Stay at your place once a week maybe to let him think about it..last thing you want to do is force the issue but you deserve some sort of answer before you give up your place
OceanTropic Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 (edited) There's no way in hell any reasonable person would put their SO's name on their house just because they were moving in together. Honestly, if someone did that I would think he was an idiot. Really? I guess my father is one dumb, selfless, in love idiot Edited January 23, 2010 by OceanTropic
meerkat stew Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Really? I guess my father is one dumb, selfless, in love idiot Sorry, then, if he really did that, have to agree with you.
txsilkysmoothe Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Absolutely Curtains- I thought you had a breakthrough? This isn't about home ownership or finances. Why are you allowing people to answer the original question when you know that isn't what's bothering you? You want him to marry you or at least agree to marry you and give you a ring. After two years, if you and he can't openly discuss engagement and marriage, you should not live together, marry, or IMHO be in a relationship at all. You can be more open about your feelings and desires with strangers on the internet than you can be with the man you want to spend the rest of your live. Does that not say it all?
Author Absolutely Curtains Posted January 23, 2010 Author Posted January 23, 2010 Absolutely Curtains- I thought you had a breakthrough? This isn't about home ownership or finances. Why are you allowing people to answer the original question when you know that isn't what's bothering you? You want him to marry you or at least agree to marry you and give you a ring. After two years, if you and he can't openly discuss engagement and marriage, you should not live together, marry, or IMHO be in a relationship at all. You can be more open about your feelings and desires with strangers on the internet than you can be with the man you want to spend the rest of your live. Does that not say it all? He only asked me to move in a day or two ago. I said I'd think about it. I plan on talking to him about all these things, but I want to get all my thoughts in order and make sure I'm clear on all the things I want to discuss. I'm also trying to firm up how I feel about moving in together. I'm leaning toward thinking that I don't want to move in together until and unless we're engaged, and I don't want to be engaged for at least 6 months or a year. But then I wonder, if that's how I feel, is it really that bad to move in in the meantime, just because I'm being stubborn about statistics that men wait longer to propose (or never do) if you live with them without being engaged first?
Recommended Posts