Narcissists make terrible partners

[meerkat stew]

Holy shyte, so I have a 20% chance of reeling in a NPD or BPD next go-round? What about ASPD, HPD, Aspergers, APD, CDPD, PAD, BPPD, MPD and a whole other assload of blablaPDs? Maybe it's 80% crazy out there... and in here.

[Simon Attwood]

Dunno about that, bet bipolars get more tail. I read somewhere that 70-80% of all NPDs were men and 70-80% of all BPDs were women. Not in a googly mood tonight, so take those numbers loosely.

 

 

I've come to realise that the lines between all the taxonomies of "mental complaints" are artificial, yet mankind loves a good taxonomy.

[paddington bear]

Anyone been with in a relationship with someone with NPD and then finally had the courage to leave?

 

Since part of the narcissist's modus operandi is to constantly belittle their partner, it is harder and harder for that partner to believe that they deserve better as the relationship goes on. And since narcissists believe the sun, moon and stars shine out of their asses, the partner begins to believe this constant brainwashing to be true, so even if they are unhappy, they might also believe conversely that their partner is all that and that they have the problem and believe if only they could do this and that, that then their partner would be happy, and so they stay.

 

Anyway, bearing that in mind, what was the defining moment when you decided to leave this kind of relationship dynamic? What flipped that switch in your head, was it a long-drawn out process or a sudden 'I can't take this any more?'

 

(I ask because I know someone in this kind of relationship and I'm wondering if this person will stay in that relationship, co-dependent forever or if somehow, in the situation of having all their friends alienated from them by their destructive partner (and therefore no outside point of view at all other than the narcissists) and having every aspect of their life, time, all communications controlled by their partner, if this person is likely to ever, by themselves, get the strength to get out?)

[silverfish]

Anyone been with in a relationship with someone with NPD and then finally had the courage to leave?

 

Since part of the narcissist's modus operandi is to constantly belittle their partner, it is harder and harder for that partner to believe that they deserve better as the relationship goes on. And since narcissists believe the sun, moon and stars shine out of their asses, the partner begins to believe this constant brainwashing to be true, so even if they are unhappy, they might also believe conversely that their partner is all that and that they have the problem and believe if only they could do this and that, that then their partner would be happy, and so they stay.

 

Anyway, bearing that in mind, what was the defining moment when you decided to leave this kind of relationship dynamic? What flipped that switch in your head, was it a long-drawn out process or a sudden 'I can't take this any more?'

 

(I ask because I know someone in this kind of relationship and I'm wondering if this person will stay in that relationship, co-dependent forever or if somehow, in the situation of having all their friends alienated from them by their destructive partner (and therefore no outside point of view at all other than the narcissists) and having every aspect of their life, time, all communications controlled by their partner, if this person is likely to ever, by themselves, get the strength to get out?)

 

I left about 2 years ago, after 15 years...

 

There wasn't really a 'final straw', just a realisation that there was a bit more going on there than your average 'relationship got a bit stale, need to get the spark back' stuff.

 

I wasn't allowed to talk about anything that 'upset' him, and in the end that was pretty much everything. I couldn't handle the constant drama of him falling out with anyone and everyone over nothing, and having to pick up the peices.

 

He fell out with everyone in my family to the point that they couldn't come to my house. He alienated everyone we worked with apart from his little circle of 'friends' who spent the whole time agreeing with him and kissing his ass.

 

He would not do anything that he was not 'great' at, which is pretty much everything (like all of us), and left me to deal with a huge problem relating to our finances on my own.

 

He did go to IC to talk about NPD after we separated but he never discussed it with me, not once. He's made a bit of progress since we split, as he's had to deal with the consequences of his behaviour on his own. I don't know whether it would ever be enough for us to get back together, but TBH, I wouldn't rule out it never happening.

 

Maybe get your friend to read up on NPD and see what she thinks..

[Trialbyfire]

Anyone been with in a relationship with someone with NPD and then finally had the courage to leave?

Yes, I was married to and divorced someone who was clinically diagnosed with NPD. The turning point was discovery of his affair(s) and the subsequent knowledge, gained through LS, that NPD existed, hence therapy and then the clinical diagnosis.

 

It's just a matter of setting your mind to walking away and then, you just do it.

[carhill]

Who said all narcissists were men?

Prior to reading LS, I thought NPD was an equal-opportunity disease/disorder. We discussed it in counseling, as my stbx consistently referred to her mother as a narcissist. However, since joining LS and reading the stories here, NPD seems to be more male-oriented, or at least ascribed more to males, and BPD (borderline personality disorder) more of a female related disorder.

 

Regardless, I think the premise of the OP is accurate, and I see signs of it during the mechanics of my divorce process. Perhaps the apple and tree are not too far apart. As has been mentioned, clear, defined and defended boundaries are one of the best tools for dealing with such behaviors. Sure glad I got that message at some point.

[meerkat stew]

I've come to realise that the lines between all the taxonomies of "mental complaints" are artificial, yet mankind loves a good taxonomy.

 

Of course, you are correct, that's one reason they are called "cluster" disorders, there is so much overlap between many of them. And of course it's silly to add up what % are BPD and what % are NPD, etc. etc. to come up with a sum suggesting that 80% are disordered, was just making a joke. Based on reading and personal experience, I find 15% or so of women out there disordered to the level of meeting enough criteria to qualify for one of the labels, and the ones that are disordered tend to have them all.

 

The reason we run into these types so much in the dating pool is that they are constantly recycling through it. They can't face life on their own, so they rarely stay single for long, and their relationships explode quickly and early, so they are a disproportionate % of the available pool at any given time, giving the illusion that all the single women (or men) out there are crazy and undateable.

 

But it behooves normal folks to be aware and pay attention. We are in a mental health crisis that is not improving, and these types are expert at hiding themselves on the front end until they have their "normal" roped in well. I had the misfortune of being in relationships with two BPDs back to back for significant periods of time in 2006-2007, before I knew what BPD was, and was ignorant of PDs, and that kind of experience will definitely end the "age of innocence" for a person.

Edited January 23, 2010 by meerkat stew

[sbhappy]

I'm not quite sure what type I was with. He could have been a Narcissist, but I can't be certain. He started out so sweet. I met him on the internet and within a month he told me he loved me and was buying me diamonds. I got sucked in and believed it all. After 2 months he told me that he wanted me to move in with him and we would get married in the future. After I agreed to that and moved in he changed his story and couldn't figure out why I needed to get married. When I would visit my friends or family without him he was constantly texting me, calling me..etc. If I didn't answer his calls he would ignore me when I tried to call him back. He would manipulate me into coming home by saying we needed to be somewhere, he wasn't feeling well, it was always something. He probably had OCD too. I moved in with him in July and by October I was secretly packing my things to make the move out. By March I broke up. What was the final straw?? He loved to make me miserable. I had Fridays off and it seemed that every Friday he would somehow start a fight with me, make me cry and then apologize. In looking back, I think it was his way of keeping the upperhand. I'm still not sure. He would call me at work and ask me why I had forgotten to bring him his coffee that morning before I left or some other stupid thing. He didn't want me doing things for my kids and God Forbid I spend money on them that I had earned. The final straw.....he called me when I got to work and asked why I hadn't put a new bottle of shampoo in the shower. I told him that I was sorry and that I had been busy starting a fire in the woodstove, feeding the dogs, and making his coffee. I had forgotten to replace the bottle of shampoo that I had emptied. He hung up on me and then I got a text that said my free ride was over. Who was he kidding? Free ride? I moved in with him because I was in love with the man that he made me believe he was. I texted back and said I was finished and withing moments he was on the phone asking me what I meant and I told him that i was tired of him treating me the way he did. I moved out that night and it's almost been a year and he still calls me and texts me. He still makes me feel terrible. I'm having a hard time moving on because he has made me feel guilty. Again with the "I'm sick, I can't move on, I have Cancer, I still love you....." Then the next day he'll text me to tell me that I'm a Bit** and any other nasty thing he can think of. I sometimes feel that I'm the one with the problem because I am letting him do this to me.

In regards to your friend...maybe she will just get sick of it. Mine was a gradual move out but he didn't know of my plan because I was afraid of him. He didn't abuse me physically and I don't believe that he ever would have. He NEVER lifted a hand to me. He was verbally abusive. He loved to joke and play tricks on people but you didn't dare tease him or play tricks on him. I actually feel sad for him as I don't think he knows that he is doing this. I wish your friend all the luck

[Elemental75]

Gosh, sbhappy, that sounds horrific. I spent a good number of year with a narcissist (no diagnosis, but there was something very, very wrong with him). He had been raised to think the sun, moon and stars shone out of him. His parents still controlled his life and finances to a large extent. He totally lacked empathy and honestly believed he could have a relationship without compromise on his side. He expected me to change plans, adapt and fall in line with everything he did. He lied, cheated, and eventually assaulted me when I called him out on the cheating. A few seconds after the assault, he snapped back into 'friendly' mode and acted like nothing had happened. I was traumatised and in shock.

 

I got to know him when we were both quite young, and I fear I had some kind of co-morbidity going on with him - I had very low self-esteem, he spotted that, and knew I was someone he could take liberties with. Getting away from him (after he had hurt me almost beyond endurance) almost killed me, because I was totally emotionally and financially enmeshed with him. He honestly thought I should put up with his lies and cheating and still be glad to be with him, because he 'loved' me.

 

After I cut contact, he attempted to contact me repeatedly, and probably still would, if he had the chance.

 

It has left me with a massive legacy of fear and mistrust, which I have to work on every day of my life. It makes having healthy relationships difficult, because I need to continually examine where my and the other person's boundaries lie. I think it is possible to get over the damage a narcissist does to you, but it is hard work.

[paddington bear]

@ Simon Attwood - I think it is important to make distinctions and labels, primarily because as someone on the receiving end of crazy behaviour, you often go nuts yourself and start to lose yourself. Your whole compass of what is normal and acceptable goes out the window because people with NPD or BPD (I can't tell much diff between the two to be honest) are masters at making you feel like you are the problem and will twist any rational logic so that you end up confused and guilty and are constantly bombarded with their bizarre behaviour, so you have no time to think rationally about them or the situation you've gotten yourself into. Basically, it's good to have labels to recognise that you are not the crazy one when you've been on the receiving end.

 

I was talking with a person who's doing her phd in psychology and she said that these types hone in on sensitive people (I wonder if she was inferring 'total doormat' i.e. me) who wouldn't fight back and would try to give more love and care and attention, and get more upset than other folks - folks who'd tell them to F off as soon as they noticed the crazy, controlling behaviour.

 

To those of you who managed to get out, well done gives me hope that this friend of mine might one day, though I have to say, I doubt it which is very sad.

 

Though...sbhappy...how come you're still answering the phone to this guy, or reading his texts or listening to voice mails or reading emails? The fact that he cannot accept your leaving of him is more of a borderline personality trait from what I'm led to believe - perceived or imagined rejection sets them off - and the desperate need to regain control. In any case, would you not be better to somehow block all communications from him? No wonder you have had a hard time moving on...he's purposly not letting you. It's not normal behaviour (well, you knew that anyway) and you need to realise once and for all not to feel guilty. If he's feeling bad now, it's all through his own doing and own behaviour, he is reaping the rewards of that, but due to whatever mental issues he has, unlike a normal person he won't learn from it, so you are best to look after number one and put him totally out of your head and cut off all reminders of him, even if this means changing your phone number and email addresses. I'm serious. He's not going to let up otherwise while he sees a chink of hope in terms of regaining his lost control over you.

 

The crazy BPD lady who made my life a living hell for 7 months also was a total gem at creating guilt (brought up Catholic, so it worked damn well on me!!). I went to therapy, she advised not opening any emails and sending them straight to junk, or if I was worried (and I was) about her doing something crazy, dangerous or malicious to me or my reputation that I could forward them to her for evidence (I was freaked out about this, that if I deleted them and she later accused me of something (mistress of convincing lies, which tripped off her tongue so easily, I'd have no written evidence of her craziness to show to the police).

 

Have you a friend or relative that you could do that to - just forward anything on, unread. He's still got control over you now, just by making you feel guilty - the obsessive behaviour on his side is working on you and that's not good, especially after a year.

[threebyfate]

The lines are pretty blurred between NPD and BPD individuals. They're both self-destructive, albeit BPDers will self-harm by mutilation, suicide attempts, as well as other destructive addictions and behaviours and NPDers self-harm solely by destructive addictions and behaviours.

 

Both Cluster B disorders are destructive to everyone around them.