The latest thing about which I'm beating myself up

[mickleb]

I want to start hearing a lot less about him and a lot more about how you are determined to pick yourself up and dust yourself down.

 

You will need to want to heal, which means, moving on. I don't hear that you want to do that yet, which means you want to stay chained to his memory.

 

If that's all you want from your life, Sed: take it, it's yours.

 

But if there is anything more you wish for.. close your eyes and tap your heels together.

 

x

[McGrupp]

oh man your so wrong. but...well...you do what you want it seems to be working.

[sedgwick]

I you want to stay chained to his memory.

 

If that's all you want from your life, Sed: take it, it's yours.

 

I know this sounds weird, but I promised him I would love him and only him, unconditionally, forever. He said, "You'll find someone else," and that was one of the most hurtful things he said to me. (After, "I think sex is to you what music is to me." Because, y'know, writing and dance don't mean anything to me, it's just all sex.) He was always SOOO big on "I always tell the truth, I'll never lie to you," but obviously he was lying every time he said he loved me, every time he kissed me, every time he smiled at me. I was the one person he's ever met who was so worthless it was okay to lie to me. And I am DETERMINED that my promises won't be lies. If all I can give him is my love from afar, that's what I'll give. At least I get to be in love, right? And unreciprocated love seems to be the only kind of love available to me, so I try to just be happy with the memories of the time he pretended to love me. It's the best I'll ever get.

 

And McGrupp, I'm sorry if I seem to be shooting down everything you say. I really appreciate it. But I just don't feel like I can leave the house until I'm skinny. I don't want to bother anyone with my fat non-musician self. I am SURE that part of the reason he dumped me is that his previous girlfriends were all skinny as boards (well, at least Sarah and Michelle, I never saw any others) and here I am having boobs and stuff. He was probably just really embarrassed to be seen with me.

[McGrupp]

and here I am having boobs and stuff.

 

guys hate those

[HeavenOrHell]

Most men love boobs and curves! I'm too skinny would love more up top

[counterman]

I am DEEPLY discouraged by a lot of what I'm reading on here from men -- story after story of having had a woman who loved them deeply and treated them well, and in return they treated her like sh*t. (And yes, of course I know there are men who have been treated this way by women, but the ones voicing it seem to be male.)

 

So of course I'm now beating the hell out of myself for how much I loved my ex, thinking he can't possibly have any respect for me because I loved him and I told him. Guys, if a woman tells you she loves you, do you automatically start being as cruel to her as possible? And if so, why?

 

I feel like I'm supposed to be evil to the next guy (ha, like there's going to be one!) even if I love him. Like I'm supposed to hide my feelings and play the b*tch game. And that, of course, just exhausts me, and makes me never want to even try, because I'm not allowed to be honest or do anything nice for a man if I want to keep him around.

 

God, I feel SO stupid and discouraged and humiliated now, like OF COURSE that's why he left. It makes me want to hide under the covers out of embarrassment.

 

I haven't read all the post, just the opening one in fact.

 

It goes both ways. A man might love a women, who ends up treating him like crap. A woman might love a man, who ends up doing the same. But in both these cases, they both deserve better.

 

I wouldn't care too much about what the woman says in terms of love, it's the actions that matter. If she says she loves me and if any of her actions contradict that, then she doesn't really does she? For example, showing any disrespect like allowing other guys to flirt with her, and flirting back with them. Trust me, this has happened before and it isn't right. And, if you keep taking her word as gold and accepting that it's the truth, then you're in for a bummer. It's your actions that show you love somebody. So, I understand why some men would be cruel to a women if she told him that she loved him; she could end up hating him in a split-second.

 

In saying that, I wouldn't treat a woman that way. If she says she loves me but they're just words, then I'll end it. My ex thought she knew what love was and she probably did feel a bit of love for me but it was mostly guilt. Whenever she wronged me, she would feel guilty and try to make up for me. But, she didn't want to do those things with me out of want get me? I would love her with all my heart and try my hardest and it's only when she feels guilt, that she reciprocated. Is that what anyone would want?

 

If you feel something, don't pretend that you're feeling something else or be a bitch about it and play a game. You have to assess if he's worth all your effort and deserves being kept. You want to know that he will put in the hard yards when things get tough and you want to know that he will show you that he loves you. Then, you can share and be completely honest with him. Though, only do so if you feel the same. If you are going to work with him and that you will show what you say.

 

It is normal to feel stupid and humiliated by this but learn from this experience. It's a worthwhile one.

[4givrnt4gtr]

SEd unfortunately I understand how you feel. I say unfortunately because Ive come to the same conclusion. Actually I posted a thread about it a couple of weeks ago which got a million responses and basically, Im right. People prefer a "challenge" than someone who gives their heart openly and freely.

 

Ive also cringed at memories when I allowed my feelings get the best of me and show my ex how much I cared for him. He would say he liked it, that he always wanted someone nurturing and caring like I was....yet he couldnt feel that "spark" he wanted to feel.

Yet, he was still bitter and sad about losing his ex who cheated on him, forgot all about his bday and bassically treated him like cr @ p. He dared called her his best friend!

If it had been just him...id just chalked him up to be a dumbass, but basically every guy Ive allowed myself to show them how much i care for them have basically treated me like im dispensable or gave me the "its not you its me" talk.

 

And then...those who I do not care about, whom i dont return the calls, whom I avoid at all costs and whom Ive been downright cold blooded to make them understand that I dont like them are the ones chasing me, calling me and literally banging down my door to let them in.

 

Say what you wanna say, but the proof is in the facts.

 

Sad Sad days...but something to take note of.

 

 

PS....Im not saying we should "pretend" we dont care when we do....but I do believe we need to somehow stop ourselves from caring too much until we can be sure they are worth it and care for us as much as possible....Basically guard your heart and only give it away to those who deserve it and have proven that with action, for an extended period of time.

Edited January 22, 2010 by 4givrnt4gtr

[shadowplay]

He DOES play upright bass. He just wants to BE WITH a fiddle player.

 

The guy on whom I had a crush, who rejected me? Drummer.

 

No, it wasn't my first relationship. I'm 38. It's the biggest blow to my ego ever -- I gave the very best of me, everything I had to give, and it wasn't good enough. So what do I have to offer anyone? Nothing.

 

I think part of the reason nobody wants me is my body. I'm not skinny, and in a city full of emaciated models, guys don't even look at girls like me who have T&A and stuff.

 

Don't take this the wrong way but it might also be the tattoos. Aren't you working on a full body of them? I'm sure there are some guys who will love them, but I think that also limits your options and might explain some of the difficulty you've faced.

Edited January 22, 2010 by shadowplay

[sedgwick]

Don't take this the wrong way but it might also be the tattoos. Aren't you working on a full body of them? I'm sure there are some guys who will love them, but I think that also limits your options and might explain some of the difficulty you've faced.

 

Yup, working on a bodysuit. Anyone who didn't want to date me because of them would be someone I wouldn't want to date. Given that I live in an artsy neighborhood in NYC with a tattoo shop on every corner, and like rockabilly-type guys, it's never presented a problem before. My tattoos have opened up a whole world to me and I have never considered them "limiting" or "difficult" in any way.

 

I only like the freaks. I'm not attracted to straight-looking guys. I want someone weird and funky, with style, who wants a similar woman.

Edited January 22, 2010 by sedgwick

[GrayClouds]

. I want someone weird and funky, with style, who wants a similar woman.

 

What if they are so weird and funky they look straight to rebel against the stereotypical norms of the predisposed social presumption of what weird and funky construct is to place a higher value on conceptual creativity then hyperbolic exterior ornamentation?

 

.

Edited January 22, 2010 by GrayClouds

[gaudi]

Yup, working on a bodysuit. Anyone who didn't want to date me because of them would be someone I wouldn't want to date.

 

I like this answer. It means no one will get hurt.

[GrayClouds]

I like this answer. It means no one will get hurt.

 

So she is saying she would not date anyone who would reject her because of her image....but:

 

I only like the freaks. I'm not attracted to straight-looking guys. I want someone weird and funky, with style, who wants a similar woman.

 

Would reject someone because of their image.

 

And ironically enough she was rejected by her boyfriend because she did not fit up to his image of what his a girlfriend should look like; a fiddle player.

 

And now has a issues because she feels she is too curvy for NYC men to go for her.

 

.

Edited January 22, 2010 by GrayClouds

[sedgwick]

What if they are so weird and funky they look straight to rebel against the stereotypical norms of the predisposed social presumption of what weird and funky construct is to place a higher value on conceptual creativity then hyperbolic exterior ornamentation?

 

If they can express it in correctly-spelled big words like that, I'll marry them!

 

And Gaudi, thanks. It's been suggested on here LOTS of times that women with tattoos are CATEGORICALLY ugly, and that I shouldn't expect to be dated because I have them. I feel sorry for anyone who is that naive about the beauty and diversity of human skin!

[sedgwick]

Would reject someone because of their image.

 

And ironically enough she was rejected by her boyfriend because she did not fit up to his image of what his a girlfriend should look like; a fiddle player.

 

So I'm the only one on here who finds herself attracted to a certain physical image? Interesting!

 

Also, what does a fiddle player LOOK like? I was under the impression it was more about the skill than the appearance, and have seen fiddle players of all different shapes, sizes, and genders, but I suppose I could have been hallucinating.

[GrayClouds]

So I'm the only one on here who finds herself attracted to a certain physical image? Interesting!

 

Also, what does a fiddle player LOOK like? I was under the impression it was more about the skill than the appearance, and have seen fiddle players of all different shapes, sizes, and genders, but I suppose I could have been hallucinating.

 

Exactly.

 

Segwick your intelligent, creative and caring... beyond that everything is just the surface. Maybe it is time to swim deeper. That is where you will find the beautiful fishes you deserve.

[sedgwick]

Exactly.

 

Segwick your intelligent, creative and caring... beyond that everything is just the surface. Maybe it is time to swim deeper. That is where you will find the beautiful fishes you deserve.

 

Thanks. But again I'm really interested to know what A fiddle player LOOKS like.

[gaudi]

Thanks. But again I'm really interested to know what A fiddle player LOOKS like.

 

 

I think they have beards and wear check shirts.

[sedgwick]

I think they have beards

 

Well gosh, I can see how ANY guy would want a girl with a beard! Now it all makes sense...

[gaudi]

It takes all sorts !!!

[shadowplay]

Yup, working on a bodysuit. Anyone who didn't want to date me because of them would be someone I wouldn't want to date. Given that I live in an artsy neighborhood in NYC with a tattoo shop on every corner, and like rockabilly-type guys, it's never presented a problem before. My tattoos have opened up a whole world to me and I have never considered them "limiting" or "difficult" in any way.

 

I only like the freaks. I'm not attracted to straight-looking guys. I want someone weird and funky, with style, who wants a similar woman.

 

I totally hear you. I think our taste in men may overlap somewhat (my current boyfriend is also a musician with tattoos and I'm often attracted to artsy guys).

 

But I still think the tattoo factor is something to consider, in that not even at all funky guys will dig a bodysuit. Personally, I'd feel better knowing something I chose for myself is the reason rather than something I didn't choose like the shape of my body. I doubt your weight or whatever is an issue. I remember seeing a photo of you awhile back and you looked totally fine.

 

So if you consider that your tattoos could be what's turning some guys off, you can always take the attitude you gave to me that you wouldn't want to date someone who doesn't appreciate that about you. It's a good attitude to adopt.

Edited January 22, 2010 by shadowplay

[GrayClouds]

Thanks. But again I'm really interested to know what A fiddle player LOOKS like.

 

I suggest you beseech your ex with that inquiry for he was the silly boy who gave up a gal like you for an apotheosise effigy be that would concure to his construct of his image of a girlfriend as is a fiddle player such as it be an accessory in the vain of beads and bangles, or in this case belly ring.

[sedgwick]

I suggest you beseech your ex with that inquiry for he was the silly boy who gave up a gal like you for an apotheosise effigy be that would concure to his construct of his image of a girlfriend as is a fiddle player such as it be an accessory in the vain of beads and bangles, or in this case belly ring.

 

What is an "apotheosise effigy be?" And "a girlfriend as is a fiddle player?" Also, forgive me, but I think you mean "concur" and "vein." I love the big words but the construction is a bit confusing and the spelling is a bit off! I don't really have any idea what you mean here...

Edited January 23, 2010 by sedgwick

[mickleb]

What is an "apotheosise effigy be?" And "a girlfriend as is a fiddle player?" Also, forgive me, but I think you mean "concur" and "vein." I love the big words but the construction is a bit confusing and the spelling is a bit off! I don't really have any idea what you mean here...

 

Yeah - way too many big words and way too little grammar, GC but I suspect you don't care too much about that?

 

I think, though, Sedge that you may have an idea of what GC means here: that regardless of whether you choose to elevate the ability to use words or a fiddle beautifully, neither talents are especially synonymous with that of being able to fully love another human being.

 

You know that half of your posts here smack of egotism via your inference that you are so 'different' (ergo 'special') that you could neither be loved by any other mere mortal nor deign to offer love to another, yourself?

 

I don't mean to be unkind. Honestly, I really don't - it would get you or I nowhere - but we are on an internet forum, here, where points are sometimes made directly.

 

I could tell you there is nothing 'wrong' with choosing to only date fiddle players or those who get the hots for tattoos. It is the right of the individual. Completely. I mean - there are no laws against it, are there? But I could also tell you that it sounds pretty superficial as a basis for choosing a life partner and a bit 'up oneself.' So I have.

 

The reason I bother to do this? Most people on here will get tired of your desire to be so special. They don't really care about that. They just want to make a sad girl happy, if they possibly can.

 

But no-one else here can really do that, can they? The only one who can do that here is you. And you have to want to be happy. It sounds, at the moment, that wanting to be different is more important to you.

 

Chapter Two has a section called 'Lookin' For Love In All The Wrong Places'. Basically, makes the same points in a more magnanimous way.

 

x

[sedgwick]

 

You know that half of your posts here smack of egotism via your inference that you are so 'different' (ergo 'special') that you could neither be loved by any other mere mortal nor deign to offer love to another, yourself?

 

I could tell you there is nothing 'wrong' with choosing to only date fiddle players or those who get the hots for tattoos. It is the right of the individual...it sounds pretty superficial as a basis for choosing a life partner and a bit 'up oneself.'

 

An interesting point, and I'm not angered at all that you would bring it up. I can certainly see how it could look that way. Honestly, I think it's more defensiveness than egotism. Y'know? Like, I DON'T think I'm special. However, I do understand that's the flip side of the same coin, like I'm special in my non-specialness.

 

As for choosing to date fiddle players vs. guys who are hot for tattoos, I do think that's a little different. Of course we want to date people who are attracted to us. If a guy doesn't like tattoos, he probably wouldn't want to date me, and as such, I wouldn't want to date him. It seems much more logical to go after someone who finds you attractive than someone who doesn't. To me, saying, "I will only choose someone who chooses me," is different from saying, "I will only choose someone with one specific career."

 

As for never being loved or deigning to love another, that one's a bit confusing. I loved someone with all my heart. I loved others before him (and, for the record, two of them were very straight-looking guys with no tattoos! Joe didn't have any either.) So I have absolutely deigned to love people, and would like to again if I found the right person, and although I do admit to being attracted to a certain physical type, I have also been attracted to men who were NOT that physical type because I loved their brains. Is a guy who finds, say, redheads particularly sexy "up himself?" I guess I was under the impression that we ALL have physical traits that turn us on, but if I'm the only one, I stand corrected.

[mickleb]

I know this sounds weird, but I promised him I would love him and only him, unconditionally, forever. He said, "You'll find someone else," and that was one of the most hurtful things he said to me. (After, "I think sex is to you what music is to me." Because, y'know, writing and dance don't mean anything to me, it's just all sex.) He was always SOOO big on "I always tell the truth, I'll never lie to you," but obviously he was lying every time he said he loved me, every time he kissed me, every time he smiled at me. I was the one person he's ever met who was so worthless it was okay to lie to me. And I am DETERMINED that my promises won't be lies. If all I can give him is my love from afar, that's what I'll give. At least I get to be in love, right? And unreciprocated love seems to be the only kind of love available to me, so I try to just be happy with the memories of the time he pretended to love me. It's the best I'll ever get.

 

The being loved by/deigning to love another bit was in direct response to this, Sedge.

 

Yes, you can have a preference for this and that but your preferences seem to be getting firmly in the way of your happiness.

 

Why choose misery?

 

x