Woggle Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I don't claim to speak for all men but let me use myself as an example. I am a very generous person. I will give a friend the shirt off my back and I am always sharing with the people I care about. At work I am often put in charge of certain projects and after everything is done I take the crew out to dinner out of my own pocket for a job well done. I often by my wife expensive gifts and I take her out to expensive places. With all this being said if anybody acts entitled to this I get stingy as hell. It is a nice gesture on my part and not something that I owe anybody. I think that much of the resentment on men's part comes when women act entitled to chivalry simply because they are born female. This entitlement mentality especially when many women are unwilling to do any nice thing for a man in return causes men to be stingy. I am not spending my hard earned money for a woman who will not appreciate it at all. The less you demand a man do something the more likely he is to do it on his own.
Payden Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Well I believe most wouldn't want someone to expect something to happen as far as good gestures or gifts. Men and woman. It's always nice to feel you have been appreciated for doing something, not feeling like you were expected to do it.
OceanTropic Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 What is your questions exactly? If a woman doesn't appreciate your chivalry (and believe me, these days its really hard to find) then stop being so generous. A woman doesn't necessarily have to return the favor in some way, but she has to be appreciative and show it. If she doesn't, why continue with the nice gestures? Avoid getting stingy by discontinuing buying her these nice things. If she asks you why all of a sudden you don't by her gifts anymore, tell her "You don't seem to enjoy very much". If she asks how that is, tell her when you get her gifts she doesn't seem to really like them, so you decided to stop buying her presents. Believe me, after she realizes this, she will be very appreciative.
allina Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 A couple weeks ago my SO and I took a trip to visit his brother and some old friends. We arranged a party at a venue that was BYOB. The people invited where my SO's and his brother's close friends. My SO's brother's gf invited her gf and her new bf (guy we never met). My SO and I are pretty friendly and happy to meet new people so it wasn't a big deal. Since the place was BYOB we went to a liquor store before heading out. We got 2 bottles of wine and a few six packs. I payed, gladly, it was no biggie. The guy we didn't know didn't bring anything (all other groups of people did). He demanded a beer when he arrived and we gave him one, after he was finished he pounded his bottle on a table and demanded "BEER!." He didn't even say "hey can I get a beer?" He kept doing this over and over again. At the end of the night he drank like 6 of the beers I bought, a small amount of money. But the fact that he didn't once say thank you or please or anything pissed me off so much! Had this same guy said "thank you for the beer" or "I didn't realize it was byob let me buy you guys a round after this" it would have made a world of difference. Gratitude and attitude goes a long way.
tami-chan Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 With all this being said if anybody acts entitled to this I get stingy as hell. It is a nice gesture on my part and not something that I owe anybody. I think that much of the resentment on men's part comes when women act entitled to chivalry simply because they are born female. This entitlement mentality especially when many women are unwilling to do any nice thing for a man in return causes men to be stingy. I am not spending my hard earned money for a woman who will not appreciate it at all. The less you demand a man do something the more likely he is to do it on his own. I understand this and agree. It is very disconcerting when people think they are "owed" or entitled to "things" solely by the virtue of their existence.
Trialbyfire Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 The guy we didn't know didn't bring anything (all other groups of people did). He demanded a beer when he arrived and we gave him one, after he was finished he pounded his bottle on a table and demanded "BEER!." He didn't even say "hey can I get a beer?" He kept doing this over and over again. At the end of the night he drank like 6 of the beers I bought, a small amount of money. But the fact that he didn't once say thank you or please or anything pissed me off so much!What a jackass. I'm surprised anyone gave him another beer, after the first one. He would have looked pretty stupid, demanding beer and no one giving him any or everyone yelling back "go get your own at the store".
Payden Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Back when I was a NOOB at going to the bar with the guys, I had no understanding of bar etiquette. I drank like 3 beers until my buddy nudged me and said... " you have to get a round of beer to the guys man" lol... hey....I was a noob...
Crazy Magnet Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I've been frustrated by more than one man taking advantage of my generous nature. I'll gladly do any nice gesture from rubbing a man's head or back to spotting him on some bills if he needs it, but I've seen more often than not my ex boyfriend's start to take advantage of it, like I somehow "owe" them these things? hmmm.....I too quickly remove my generosity from the equation. I hate to sound all cynical, but I hope the my current bf doesn't end up this way! He's constantly telling me how he's never met a woman who has treated him so well, but so far he's done all the generous things I do in return. We do them for each other, and that's how I think it should be. I have no problem going out of my way for him, but I will expect him to show me the same level generosity.
Elemental75 Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Personally I think (and I'm a woman) that if women want equality they can't expect men to pick up the tab too. If you are both in employment it is unreasonable to expect a man to pay for you. I think it's important to get into the habit of splitting expenses early on, and very important to make clear where you stand on the subject of money. Money is responsible for so much trouble in couples!
Chicago_Guy Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Personally I think (and I'm a woman) that if women want equality they can't expect men to pick up the tab too. If you are both in employment it is unreasonable to expect a man to pay for you. I think it's important to get into the habit of splitting expenses early on, and very important to make clear where you stand on the subject of money. Money is responsible for so much trouble in couples! I agree with you. I think it is a red flag if a woman makes over $100k/year yet doesn't want to pay for anything on dates. I once had a few dates with a woman like this and she actually told me that "men like to pay for everything on dates." I don't know where she got her information, but it was totally incorrect!
New_Life08 Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I agree, good deeds should be appreciated by the receiver, and should not be conditional from the giver.
flc Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I agree with you but I think there are circumstance where a womens expectations may be set by their cultural experiences. I date predominetly Latin women living in Miami and educated upper middle class Latinas tend to be very pampered in their home countries. Usually the man is completely in charge and the women are focused on pleasing their man and looking spectacular for them. Many times they are use to having maids at home and never doing cooking or cleaning. So if I were to not understand this and act accordingly I would probably be kicked to the curb pretty quickly. Of course this is not 100% true but generally the case in my experience. Now it is up to me to decide whether dealing with these expectations are worth it but so far they are. I find that many US women are just too hung up on being like a man and Latin women love being women and showing that 100% of the time.
phineas Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I like to help people out. I don't like being taken advantage of. If your not my GF, not paying me or offering to return the favor I won't do squat for you.
New_Life08 Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 So if I were to not understand this and act accordingly I would probably be kicked to the curb pretty quickly. Of course this is not 100% true but generally the case in my experience. Now it is up to me to decide whether dealing with these expectations are worth it but so far they are. I find that many US women are just too hung up on being like a man and Latin women love being women and showing that 100% of the time. I can only speak for most American woman when I say that just because we want the same rights to succeed in life does not mean we have morphed into a man. We are still very much a lady, and appreciate the men who still respect that. The hang-ups that some American men have is that this empowers many woman not to be imprisoned by the caveman mentality/lifestyle. The funny thing about many American men is when their woman's equal rights benefit them financially....they will treat you like a lady or anything else your heart desires.
New_Life08 Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Oh yeah, you would likely be kicked to the curb by American women too if you do not treat them with respect.
flc Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I can only speak for most American woman when I say that just because we want the same rights to succeed in life does not mean we have morphed into a man. We are still very much a lady, and appreciate the men who still respect that. The hang-ups that some American men have is that this empowers many woman not to be imprisoned by the caveman mentality/lifestyle. The funny thing about many American men is when their woman's equal rights benefit them financially....they will treat you like a lady or anything else your heart desires. Note I said many, not all or even most and I am all for equality when it comes to opportunity. There are some women though who believe the path to success is to act like a man and these are the women I speak of. I love strong intelligent women who can be beautiful and sexy. and I treat everyone with respect.
carhill Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 With all this being said if anybody acts entitled to this I get stingy as hell. I like to think of it as giving openly and completely and without expectation within healthy boundaries. I've found synergy develops when such giving (and receiving) is of a nature which is valued by each party; this can necessarily mean completely different forms and formats of generosity. My clear guideline is, once I discern that contact has become a function of want, I leave that dynamic a dearth of fulfillment. What does it feel like to want?
New_Life08 Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 You are right about some American women going to extremes...as long as you know that many of us just want the right to persevere in the world. I am curious how Latin men view American men as a whole? hehe!
flc Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 You are right about some American women going to extremes...as long as you know that many of us just want the right to persevere in the world. I am curious how Latin men view American men as a whole? hehe! I think you would have to ask them as most of the Latin men I know are with Latin women. What is really interesting is that I know many Latin women who are with American men. (not due to immigration issues ) We may be taking this thread OT though, so enough
donnamaybe Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Oh yeah, you would likely be kicked to the curb by American women too if you do not treat them with respect. This is true, but respect comes in many packages. I would NEVER respect ANYONE, man or woman, who EXPECTED someone to pay their way or do everything for them. I would consider them a selfish anus and... "NEXT!"
flc Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 This is true, but respect comes in many packages. I would NEVER respect ANYONE, man or woman, who EXPECTED someone to pay their way or do everything for them. I would consider them a selfish anus and... "NEXT!" That's fair everyone gets to choose who they want to be with. In my case my current GF does assume that I am responsible for paying for our social life. That does not mean that she never pays for anything or that I pay for her groceries. condo etc. She also does not expect that the things we do be lavish or that we go out every week. She is single mother, makes substantially less than me and culturally this is what she has been taught and experienced. I love her and respect her and I am not going to let some notion that the relationship needs to be balanced on the monetary side affect that. But that's just me.
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