aerogurl87 Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 If I ever cohabitat it will only be on one condition, and that is I will be engaged already. I don't see the point in cohabitating with a boyfriend unless it is certain that we will be getting married in the near future. I know two people who have been lulled into the "move in and we'll get engaged" trick only to never see a hint of marriage in their future. First person being my sister and second being my uncle's ex girlfriend. To me marriage is the ultimate sign of commitment and moving in together is a sign that your ready to make that commitment, so for me no ring equals no moving in together.
carhill Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 How about living together, getting the appropriate legal documents, like POA's, wills, etc, and never getting married? What would be the difference between that and being married? You could still call each other 'spouse', wear rings and it could still be just as entangled legally and financially as a marriage is. Looking back, no one, other than the family members who saw us sign the license, really knew that we were married. We could have just said we were. When the divorce was filed, they didn't even require a copy of the wedding license, even though we were married in a state other than our residence. I guess such an arrangement, widely used, would screw up the statistics, since they are based on marriage license filings versus divorce filings. Actuarial frustration.
Mr White Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Here's more info: http://www.virginia.edu/marriageproject/pdfs/NMP2008CohabitationReport.pdf It shows cohabitation increases/decreases by country, increases/decreases in rate of marriage, and increases/decreases in divorce rates. Enjoy! One bit of info to consider based on the above data is that the US has the *lowest* cohabitation outside marriage rate, but also has the *highest* divorce rate. So I'd say that cohabitation is one of the least problems here. Finding a woman that won't decide pack and go "find herself" is.
Woggle Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 It doesn't really matter because it in no way predicts whether a woman will turn on you or not. What a man needs is an iron clad prenup just in case she does do a 180 on you. There is no way to stop divorce but if a man is smart he can get out of his marriage in one piece.
Mr White Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 It doesn't really matter because it in no way predicts whether a woman will turn on you or not. What a man needs is an iron clad prenup just in case she does do a 180 on you. There is no way to stop divorce but if a man is smart he can get out of his marriage in one piece. That, and it is also simply not worth it to move in together unless marriage is in the cards pretty soon. Why give up so much comfort and independence to live in with a girlfriend? And as far as getting used to it after marriage - I don't see anything reasonable that can't be negotiated. If the one partner is a slob, has bad eating habits, etc. they can't possibly reasonably expect the other party to put up with it etc. That;s why there is a civilization - there are reasonable standards of what's acceptable So, overall I'd agree that cohabiting before marriage could be a sign of being a bit wishy-washy about the whole thing.
torranceshipman Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Bullseye! When you wait, it adds value to your partner and the relationship. It makes the relationship special and harder to give up. What's easier to give up a 10 dollar bill or a 100 dollar bill? Not bullseye at all. Some people, believe it or not, do not need to'wait' for a legal contract in order to be 100% commited, in love, and respectful of eachothers needs. Some people can't wait to live together, so they can share their lives with the person that they love, so they move in together. That kind of person is likely to really respect, and practically enter, the institution of M because they KNOW it is for life so take it incredibly seriously and wouldnt want to rush into it, or enter it blindly...hence the living together first.
OnlyJake Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Not bullseye at all. Some people, believe it or not, do not need to'wait' for a legal contract in order to be 100% commited, in love, and respectful of eachothers needs. Some people can't wait to live together, so they can share their lives with the person that they love, so they move in together. That kind of person is likely to really respect, and practically enter, the institution of M because they KNOW it is for life so take it incredibly seriously and wouldnt want to rush into it, or enter it blindly...hence the living together first. What's ironic is that a lot of people have that attitude, but that attitude of "trying it out" to see if you're "compatible" is what sociologists tend to attribute the divorce rate of people who shack up before marriage to. People who take marriage seriously and know that it is for life don't necessarily "play house" before they make the commitment, because they know compatibility is about shared values, goals, etc. and once you're actually truly committed to someone (marriage) you compromise/work out/accept things like differences in how often the laundry gets done, how often the house gets cleaned, how the dishwasher is loaded, etc.
phineas Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Live with SO before Marriage Leads to Higher Change of Divorce? Ok, but why? What was it that lead to divorce the most? Money problems & infidelity are the top 2. I don't see how either of those would make much of a difference when it comes to when you both started shacking up.
OnlyJake Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Live with SO before Marriage Leads to Higher Change of Divorce? Ok, but why? What was it that lead to divorce the most? Money problems & infidelity are the top 2. I don't see how either of those would make much of a difference when it comes to when you both started shacking up. It's because people who live together before marriage are more likely to NOT try to work out relationship problems.
sumdude Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) Live with SO before Marriage Leads to Higher Change of Divorce? Ok, but why? What was it that lead to divorce the most? Money problems & infidelity are the top 2. I don't see how either of those would make much of a difference when it comes to when you both started shacking up. Infidelity is usually the last sign of a failing marriage. More of a symptom than a cause in a lot of cases. Unless of course you're married to a philanderer in general. Millions of possible issues involved in a marriage gone bad. Problems with In-Laws Bad communication Unresolved resentment Alcohol and substance abuse Stress.. stress... stress Statistics, my personal experience as well as others I've seen show the trend that there is some difference between those who cohabited for a while before marriage and those who didn't. In my case I had never lived with someone before. My ex wife had a least two long term cohabiting relationships but hadn't been married before. So one day she just walked out on me... like she did the other two guys. Of course I shouldn't have ignored the red flags yet I thought we had it goin on and we were actually married. My point is that she didn't value it as much because she had done it before. In some way it was "Eh he's just another guy I'm living with. So what if there's a ring on my finger." So yeah, I've decided it's a bad idea because it can set a bad precedent whether you progress to marriage or not. The next time you're in that same position you've already programmed your mind that "well this is temporary." It's also a real b**ch to break up ... it's totally compounded when you're living together and only gets more complicated when you're married. So why not up your chances of a lasting marriage (if that's your goal) even a little by not living with anyone beforehand? Edited January 22, 2010 by sumdude
phineas Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Infidelity is usually the last sign of a failing marriage. More of a symptom than a cause in a lot of cases. Unless of course you're married to a philanderer in general. Millions of possible issues involved in a marriage gone bad. Problems with In-Laws Bad communication Unresolved resentment Alcohol and substance abuse Stress.. stress... stress Statistics, my personal experience as well as others I've seen show the trend that there is some difference between those who cohabited for a while before marriage and those who didn't. In my case I had never lived with someone before. My ex wife had a least two long term cohabiting relationships but hadn't been married before. So one day she just walked out on me... like she did the other two guys. Of course I shouldn't have ignored the red flags yet I thought we had it goin on and we were actually married. My point is that she didn't value it as much because she had done it before. In some way it was "Eh he's just another guy I'm living with. So what if there's a ring on my finger." So yeah, I've decided it's a bad idea because it can set a bad precedent whether you progress to marriage or not. The next time you're in that same position you've already programmed your mind that "well this is temporary." It's also a real b**ch to break up ... it's totally compounded when you're living together and only gets more complicated when you're married. So why not up your chances of a lasting marriage (if that's your goal) even a little by not living with anyone beforehand? Ok. I see that now. My STBXW was the first woman I ever lived with. She moved in about a yr before the engagement & we lived another yr together before the wedding. She had lived with a number of guys before me & didn't really make it clear on why she broke up with them but she was still "friends" with them. I suppose those are the red-flags I missed. She once told me an ex told her "there are women you date & women you marry & your the former" after we were married & I found out she was cheating on me. I also found out she was cheating on me with an ex after she moved in with me. I honestly don't know why she started cheating. Money was an issue when she was on maternity leave with our first son. I was working two jobs to make ends meet. She was online dateing. I can say, when I decide I want to start dateing I will not live with another woman unless I am married to her. And I do not plan on re-marrying any time soon. I was in my mid-30's when I married & wanted kids. My STBXW's biological clock was ticking & I felt a little rushed into marriage. my fault. Now, I got my kids. i'm 38 & I won't date anyone that wants kids. No rush to marry. I can take my time & look for red flags.
Crazy Magnet Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 If I had lived with my crap bag of an exH before we got married, I would have found out about all his illegal activities and interest in male prostitutes....that's sort of hard to hide when you share the same roof! Living together would have saved me a LOT of heart ache. I would definitely live with someone before marriage, although, I would prefer to be engaged.
sumdude Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 I would definitely live with someone before marriage, although, I would prefer to be engaged. This I can agree with. Get engaged, then move in.
Crazy Magnet Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 This I can agree with. Get engaged, then move in. My marriage ending had nothing to do with cohabitation since we didn't move in together until after the wedding day, and everything to do with money (he enjoyed augmenting his salary by stealing people's credit) and sex (he had a thing for dude prostitute....and chick ones....he apparently went both ways....) I do see much less obsession over marriage in countries where living together is acceptable and quite normal. Not as many women feel the "rush" to find a good one and take them off the market, or at least that is my experience with my European friends. They all think I'm one wacked out American because I am not in the race for the ring.
torranceshipman Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 What's ironic is that a lot of people have that attitude, but that attitude of "trying it out" to see if you're "compatible" is what sociologists tend to attribute the divorce rate of people who shack up before marriage to. People who take marriage seriously and know that it is for life don't necessarily "play house" before they make the commitment, because they know compatibility is about shared values, goals, etc. and once you're actually truly committed to someone (marriage) you compromise/work out/accept things like differences in how often the laundry gets done, how often the house gets cleaned, how the dishwasher is loaded, etc. Some of us aren't obsessed with M, and have no 'ring on my finger, make me your W' agenda. I happen to just love my guy, simple as that, and life is too short to spend a large portion of it away from him, when I could spend it with him. So I'll leave the plotting and scheming of how to get a man down the aisle quickest for people that really want that type of thing (fine, I'm not judging, but don't think we all want that). I'll also leave the 'I need a guarantee, he's trying to put me off with cohabiting' type of deals to people who obsess about how to get M. I am too laid back for all of that - plus, for me it is all about being in love. Completely socialized customs and legalities like M are just not so important to me (although my guy really loves me a lot, and I love him, so I wouldnt be suprised if we do end up getting M one day - we are certainly v.happy and cohabiting has made us a lot closer). Btw, your laundry/housework commitment comments...who do you think does that when a couple is cohabiting before M? The laundry fairy? NB I would like to add...if you pick a bad guy who just wants to coast and have someone do his laundry then yea, you have a point, those guys will just use you and never M you. I guess it is all about being with the right guy!
Author Pizzaman81 Posted January 23, 2010 Author Posted January 23, 2010 If I had lived with my crap bag of an exH before we got married, I would have found out about all his illegal activities and interest in male prostitutes....that's sort of hard to hide when you share the same roof! Living together would have saved me a LOT of heart ache. I would definitely live with someone before marriage, although, I would prefer to be engaged. wow no wonder you turned "loco"
H1N1 Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 It's because people who live together before marriage are more likely to NOT try to work out relationship problems. I think it's a crap shoot, really. I don't discount the notion that a higher percentage of people who live together before marriage might bail when the going gets tough; however, the problem with this kind of statistic is that there are statistics within statistics. I would imagine that age is a major factor, considering that a lot of live-in couples are probably younger and sort of move in before even considering marriage. For these couples, marriage might be just a continuation of a bad relationship. Another thing is, averages don't really mean much; it's the individuals involved who are going to determine whether a relationship succeeds or fails. For example, my brother and sister and law, over the objections of my mother, moved in and lived together for 18 months before marrying. They were serious about marriage and had talked about it, but wanted to feel out the process of living together beforehand. They've been married almost 25 years and they'll probably be married 25 more, God willing. On the other hand, an old roommate of mine waited to move in with his bride and they ended up getting a divorce within a year. The bottom line in all of this is maturity. If you have maturity and a sense of shared purpose, then it doesn't matter whether you move in early or not. If you don't have maturity, saving yourself and your virtue won't help either.
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