AppleGirl Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 I have an 8 yr old who has recently been diagnosed with ADHD and ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) and I am completely overwhelmed. He is extremely defiant, negative, angry, disobedient, spiteful and aggressive. I am just worn down by him and don't know what to do anymore. He is aggressive with his siblings, plays too rough with the dog and tells me he "hates me". I have caught him setting facecloths on fire in the bathroom sink, kicking his brother in the head, locking the dog in a box and he lies about almost everything. He is doing terribly in school and has no friends. I have tried time out, time in, taking privileges away, putting locks on doors that I don't want him to get into. We have tried counselling, medication and vitamins. I just don't know what to do anymore. I feel worn out and just a failure as a parent.
In_Repair Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Tried beating his ass? Always worked for me when I was a kid, and my two children respond to it pretty well.
Meaplus3 Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Have you tried talking to your ped doc about managing this? Mea:)
Sweetcheripie Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 ODD is a serious diagnosis. You definitely need help. You need a good child psychiatrist that specializes in this disorder. Call your local police department and see if they can recommend a good therapist or psychiatrist. I know it sounds weird to call the police but they actually deal a lot with these kids when they turn 12 or older and they would be thrilled to help you get control of the situation early. They also might recommend some support groups. Do you have family? Are you alone? You can't do this alone - lean on anyone and everyone you can. Hang in there but dont hem and haw about getting help - you need it now. Oh and the WORST thing you can do with a kid like this is spank him. I am not totally against spanking but with ODD kids it makes them more violent. Do not get any more animals and never leave him alone with the dog or siblings. I understand your worn out but you have to protect them. Here is some info I found: Parent Training Programs Some parents are helped through formal parent training programs. In these sessions, parents learn strategies for managing their children's behavior. These are practical approaches to dealing with a child with ODD. The emphasis is on observing the child and communicating clearly. Parents are taught negotiating skills, techniques of positive reinforcement, and other means of managing the behavior of the child with ODD. Individual Psychotherapy The therapeutic relationship is the foundation of a successful therapy. It can provide the difficult child with a forum to explore his feelings and behaviors. The therapist may be able to help the youngster with more effective anger management, thus decreasing the defiant behavior. The therapist may employ techniques of cognitive behavioral therapy to assist the child with problem solving skills and in identifying solutions to interactions that seem impossible to the child. The support gained through therapy can be invaluable in counterbalancing the frequent messages of failure to which the child with ODD is often exposed. Family Therapy Problems with family interactions are addressed in family therapy. Family structure, strategies for handling difficulties, and the ways parents inadvertently reward noncompliance are explored and modified through this therapy. This approach can also address the family stress normally generated by living with ODD. Sometimes in the course of treatment, a parent is also found to have a psychiatric disorder. Treatment of that parent may be helpful since the adult's behavior can affect how the child responds to treatment. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Behavioral therapy can help children control their aggression and modulate their social behavior. Children are rewarded and encouraged for proper behaviors. Cognitive therapy can teach children with ODD self control, self guidance, and more thoughtful and efficient problem solving strategies. Social Skills Training When coupled with other therapies, social skills training has been effective in helping children smooth out their difficult social behaviors that result from their angry, defiant approach to rules. Social skills training incorporates reinforcement strategies and rewards for appropriate behavior to help a child learn to generalize positive behavior, that is, apply one set of social rules to other situations. Thus, following the rules of a game may be generalized to rules of the classroom; working together on a team may generalize to working with adults rather than against them. Through such training, children can learn to evaluate social situations and adjust their behavior accordingly, The most successful therapies are those that provide training in the child's natural environments - such as the classroom or in social groups as this may help them apply the lessons learned directly to their lives. Medication Medication is only recommended when the symptoms of ODD occur with other conditions, such as ADHD, obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD), or anxiety disorder. When stimulants are used to treat attention deficit/hyperactivity disorders, they also appear to lessen oppositional symptoms in the child. There is no medication specifically for treating symptoms of ODD where there is no other emotional disorder. Click here to order Your Child from Harper Collins See also:
Enema Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 I have tried time out, time in, taking privileges away, putting locks on doors that I don't want him to get into. We have tried counselling, medication and vitamins. Echoing poster #2 - Have you tried smacking him? Where's his father?
annxxdisaster Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Echoing poster #2 - Have you tried smacking him? Where's his father? Speaking as someone who was diagnosed with ODD as a child, smacking him probably won't do much to get him to listen...and a father really won't matter. You just plain don't ****ing want to listen to ANYONE. My mom used to put me in a "wrap" (held me, keeping me from moving and thrashing about) until I calmed down. Are you sure he has BOTH ODD and ADHD? It's common for one to be mistaken for the other...or at least ADHD.
Tayla Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Echoing poster #2 - Have you tried smacking him? Where's his father? Listen it doesnt matter who the parent is, smacking and spanking someone due to a medical condition is well...ludicrious. I've yet to read a medical professional endorse this under any circumstances. PLease spare the idealogy that you turned out okay from such admonishment being administered. It wounded you on some level. Its never been approved by any therapist as a way to discipline. To the poster- Seek a Local chapter that has information on this disorder. SOunds like you are a great parent for trying some of the medication and behavioral changes. There are online support groups and local chapters. My nephew had this and we found out that keeping him from over stimulus activities eased the symptoms. PLus yes, sugars, carbs were a no no and its worked!
Enema Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Waiting for OP to answer the simple questions. Not interested in what other people have to say about opinions I haven't expressed.
silverfish Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I have an 8 yr old who has recently been diagnosed with ADHD and ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) and I am completely overwhelmed. He is extremely defiant, negative, angry, disobedient, spiteful and aggressive. I am just worn down by him and don't know what to do anymore. He is aggressive with his siblings, plays too rough with the dog and tells me he "hates me". I have caught him setting facecloths on fire in the bathroom sink, kicking his brother in the head, locking the dog in a box and he lies about almost everything. He is doing terribly in school and has no friends. I have tried time out, time in, taking privileges away, putting locks on doors that I don't want him to get into. We have tried counselling, medication and vitamins. I just don't know what to do anymore. I feel worn out and just a failure as a parent. Mate, you seem overwhelmed by a lot of stuff right now. The stuff about your b/f, his girls, now your son... Theres so much going on right now in your life (and thats just the personal stuff) that i would highly recommend you cut out some of the drama and focus on whats really important ie you and your kids. You can't possibly have time to deal with your son right now, and your own feelings about him because there are so many things pulling you in every direction. You arent made of elastic. Just tell the rest of the world to f*** off right now. Spend some time looking after what you need and what your boy needs, and ask for whatever help you need. Don't be so hard on yourself. The worst thing you can do right now is nothing. Normal discipline techniques dont work on kids with ADHD. There are lots of books and stuff online you could read, and a good paediatrician can help. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Understanding-ADHD-Attention-Hyperactivity-Disorder/dp/0091817005 http://www.adhd.org.nz/parent1.html From what I've seen, a lot of boys get diagnosed ADHD and grow up just fine...its all about context. You just need to take a step back and make time for dealing with it...school will help a lot, but you have to really communicate with them and work with them...its hard but extremely rewarding in the end - trust me!
Author AppleGirl Posted January 21, 2010 Author Posted January 21, 2010 I am not an advocate for spanking anyway. I don't think it solves anything. Because if it does, then why were those of us who were spanked as a child spanked repeatedly? It's because it doesn't work. Negative attention to a child...is still attention and does nothing to correct the core behaviour. I will try and seek out a parent support group, as I haven't done that yet. I have also been trying to get him in to see a child psychologist who deals with this. Previously we had only been to a general family therapist but I don't think that was good enough. I am just worn out and tired. Some days it seems that all I do is discipline him all day long. Today, I actually locked myself and my daughter in my room...just so we could get away from him and his raging and screaming. His father and I are divorced. Have been for 2 years. He is at his dad's house several days a week and speaks to him on the phone daily. This behaviour started loooong before the divorce. He was always a difficult and willful child from birth, it seems. I recently put him in an after school martial arts program because the therapist said the structure would be good for him. I just felt that I needed a break and anything that would prolong him from coming home right after school was great in my books. I feel like such a horrible parent. I never wanted things to be like this. It has gotten to the point where I am relieved whenever he goes to bed or school. I just don't like to be around him...and this is my own flesh and blood child. He is so hateful and tells me that I am a "bad mother and I hate you" almost every day, then the next minute (whenever he wants something) he is loving and snuggly. I just can't take it anymore. Could I hear more from the poster who was diagnosed with ODD? I found it interesting that you asked whether he really had ADHD because I have wondered that myself. What was your journey like? What was helpful for you? Did you have to take medication? What types of things did you do as a child? What made you listen and behave? I am so worried that eventually I am going to get a late night visit from the police someday. He just seems headed in that direction.
MizzBlue72 Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Oh - I really DO feel for you!! I have a 5 yr old just dx with adhd, and it is SO hard. Going through medication and therapy, but wow - he wears me OUT. Good luck - hang in there!!
In_Repair Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I am not an advocate for spanking anyway. I don't think it solves anything. Because if it does, then why were those of us who were spanked as a child spanked repeatedly? It's because it doesn't work. I am just worn out and tired. Some days it seems that all I do is discipline him all day long. Today, I actually locked myself and my daughter in my room...just so we could get away from him and his raging and screaming. You know, I don't want to seem like an ass here, because I really do feel for you... and your son. My problem though, is that almost all parents of "ADHD" children are against spanking. Don't you see that it did, in fact, work for you? You saw it as direct and harsh punishment for your negative actions, which I'm assuming curbed those actions? Correct? How many times do you remember your parents locking themselves in their room just to escape your abusive behavior? We are animals, and if allowed to, we will revert back to trying to survive like a wild animal. How do you stop a wild animal? "Time out" doesn't work. You want him to get his beatings at home where people love him, or would you rather he receive those beatings later on in life, where he is viewed as nothing more than an animal that needs to be removed from civilized society? Yes, spanking hurts you as a parent... but that's your burden to live with, knowing that you are teaching those much needed lessons that come along with it. You should call your parents and thank them. At this point, your son has "run wild" and needs to be reeled in. This is dangerous territory, especially with another child in the house. Martial arts? Yeah, he needs martial arts... performed on him. The ancient american art of belt-on-ass style parent-fu. <-- just a joke (haha?) This is just my opinion, and I'm certainly no expert on any of this stuff. I just felt like I should expand on my previous post. Good luck to your family.
silverfish Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 You know, I don't want to seem like an ass here, because I really do feel for you... and your son. My problem though, is that almost all parents of "ADHD" children are against spanking. Don't you see that it did, in fact, work for you? You saw it as direct and harsh punishment for your negative actions, which I'm assuming curbed those actions? Correct? How many times do you remember your parents locking themselves in their room just to escape your abusive behavior? We are animals, and if allowed to, we will revert back to trying to survive like a wild animal. How do you stop a wild animal? "Time out" doesn't work. You want him to get his beatings at home where people love him, or would you rather he receive those beatings later on in life, where he is viewed as nothing more than an animal that needs to be removed from civilized society? Yes, spanking hurts you as a parent... but that's your burden to live with, knowing that you are teaching those much needed lessons that come along with it. You should call your parents and thank them. At this point, your son has "run wild" and needs to be reeled in. This is dangerous territory, especially with another child in the house. Martial arts? Yeah, he needs martial arts... performed on him. The ancient american art of belt-on-ass style parent-fu. <-- just a joke (haha?) This is just my opinion, and I'm certainly no expert on any of this stuff. I just felt like I should expand on my previous post. Good luck to your family. A lot of kids with ADHD do get hit and often end up in care because of it. They don't respond well to discipline of this sort unlike children without ADHD who might (dont want to get into that one again!). Children with ADHD are by no means all violent and do not display all the signs that Apples son is. His behaviour may be exacerbated by lack of early diagnosis, family circumstances, lack of self control (ADHD kids can learn self control with a lot of help) and feeling rejected / hurt. I have seen a kid at school who was in care go from withdrawn, sarcastic, rude, violent, scary (to the other kids) and extremely tiring, to a funny, playful, entertaining and KIND little boy in the space of 2 years. Best thing of all? He has friends now. He is reformed character (mostly...and he has learnt to apologise when he isnt) When he first started one of the teachers described him as 'evil'....thats pretty scary huh? That just about sums up though the attitudes that some people have towards kids with behavioral problems. From what I've seen as a parent it is really up to you to fight for the best treatment for your child. Dont give in and dont accept everything you are told by professionals without getting a second opinion, starting maybe with another diagnosis. It is difficult but its more tiring and upsetting to not deal with it at all
tinktronik Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 We are beginning to call this ADHD in this thread, I personally have two children out of three diagnosed with ADHD. The symptoms this mother is describing do not sound like ADHD. While my sons, unmedicated, may bounce off the walls, run wild, exhibit some destructive behaviors and argue, snip and sometimes physically fight with each other, they are not actually dangerous and they are not actually out to cause real physical harm. When you put them in school while medicated they overachieve. I think the OPs Dr. may have been correct in his diagnosis of oppositional defiant disorder. It's time to get down on your knees and look for as many resources as possible in order to teach you as a parent how to deal with your child and cope with the situation. It's also time to teach her other child or children how to cope as well. There was a suggestion of a support group for parents as well as a clinical psychologist or psychotherapist who specializes in this field; I would strongly second this suggestion.
In_Repair Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 A child who does not respond to properly administered corporal punishment is evil. Just kidding... but that's the only way I'll buy into all of these new childhood disorders that they come up with each week. Show me an out of control kid that is raised in a home like mine, and I'll shut up. It's a fact - there are a certain number of people who are just screwed in the head and nothing gets through, but I refuse to believe that is the case with a huge majority of these children. I blame the parents first. See, it's the anger driven beatings that a child does not know how to deal with, and those are the situations that give parents like me a bad name. I beat my kids when they need it... but I also give them a stern warning beforehand and I let them know what is coming if their behavior does not change. It's not the beating itself that really matters, that's not what teaches the lesson. It's making the child understand that there are harsh consequences for their harsh actions. The beating requires an explanation or the child will not learn the lesson, and that is where parents sometimes fall short and their idea of discipline begins to border on abuse.
hurting_in_nw Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 You can teach the lesson without resorting to violence. If all a kid knows is that they'll get their ass beat for certain behavior, then it becomes in their mind, "Well, I'm gonna get my ass beat for this, but it will be worth it." So then what? You beat them more severely? Is that really the kind of relationship you want to have with your child? Pretty sad existence for the both of you if that's the case.
Tayla Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Waiting for OP to answer the simple questions. Not interested in what other people have to say about opinions I haven't expressed. Actually you did by the sheer inferring of "Have you tried smacking him?" Thus creating a suggestive/advisal answer. Save the attitude of "Gee I wasnt really talking to you and have no interest in your opinions." Guess what you open yourself up the moment you post on this forum, otherwise POST to them IN PRIVATE. Thank you though for thinking your post is only to be read or responded to by the OP...Great technique , let me know how it works for ya when you need other view points
Enema Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Actually you did by the sheer inferring of "Have you tried smacking him?" Good job princess - now you're saying you can read my mind. Go be a cun7 somewhere else... I said absolutely nothing about my stance on the matter and am offended that you are arguing a strawman of your own creation. I do not accept your apology and will not post in this thread again.
Eve Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 Paediatricians are running with this ODD and Conduct Disorder alongside ADHD thing in the UK.. 100% of the time it is poor parenting boundaries, diet and other factors .. but the kid gets doped up to the eyeballs and the parents get to claim disability benefits. Paediatricians are making the diagnosis in one visit and one questionairre to the childs school, then see the kid every 3 - 4 months now!! Family dynamics are not even assessed and no or very poor intervention is organised for the child. The education system and communities are being torn apart by this approach to unacceptable childhood behaviour. Stupid. My team and I shall fight this bland, Americanised diagnosis to the end. :mad: ****ing ridiculous nonsense.. Last I heard the diagnosis is being used as an explanation for Personality Disorder in adult llife.. of which there is no real service provision available. Children should not be labelled. Take care, Eve xx
In_Repair Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 You can teach the lesson without resorting to violence. If all a kid knows is that they'll get their ass beat for certain behavior, then it becomes in their mind, "Well, I'm gonna get my ass beat for this, but it will be worth it." So then what? You beat them more severely? Is that really the kind of relationship you want to have with your child? Pretty sad existence for the both of you if that's the case. What point are you trying to make? If anything, that is an argument against ANY form of discipline, not just mine. What happens when your kid figures out that five minutes of "time-out" isn't all that bad? Are you going to eventually have them in time-out for days at a time? A pretty sad existence? You mean the one where my children are well behaved and happy? Yeah, that sounds soooo much worse than the OP's situation. Other than one open hand pop to my sons rear this weekend, I haven't had to discipline them in a month. It's not the horrible and violent existence that it's made out to be. This is what you people don't seem to ever realize while you are hiding from your own kids and instead relying on unknown "professionals" to do your damn jobs. I do apologize to the OP for thread jacking and getting it so off topic.
jamcherries Posted February 22, 2010 Posted February 22, 2010 Enema: Tayla eloquently demolished your thin-lipped passive aggression. And to answer your rhetorically sarcastic point, linguistic inferrence doesn't require 'reading your mind' - language works without the intentions or presence of the speaker. Your previous post is naturally read as a cynical suggestion that the OP should hit the child. OP: I second the posts here that sincerely recommend you find professional assistance. Both in the medical sense of finding referrals or advice and contacts from a doctor, and to read up on books available written by therapist professionals.
doublescorpio Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 I want to say to the OP how sorry I am for you. Sounds like a very frustrating situation. I also have to echo others in the thread who have said that this does not sound like an ADHD type child, and also I think it is important for everyone reading this thread to double check what they think ADD/ADHD is. It has been classified as both a neurological and behavioral disorder, however because 'true' ADHD can only be seen on brain scans it has become more evident in the past several years that it is developmental and neurological. The 'behavior' issues are often not due to true ADHD, or ADHD is misdiagnosed in those children. That said, I am very surprised that the child in this topic has not been considered for Bipolar disorder apparently? The facts stated by the OP as well as below quote lead me to think this could be an early case of Bipolarity. Unless the OP means that her son only acts loving when he wants something and is manipulative, that would be very different. He is so hateful and tells me that I am a "bad mother and I hate you" almost every day, then the next minute (whenever he wants something) he is loving and snuggly. I just can't take it anymore. I would honestly consider medication, psychotherapy and intense behavior modification for this child. If he becomes incredibly difficult for the mother to manage or puts the family in danger I would seriously consider institutionalizing him in a centre catered to his needs.
troggleputty Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 I have an 8 yr old who has recently been diagnosed with ADHD and ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) and I am completely overwhelmed. He is extremely defiant, negative, angry, disobedient, spiteful and aggressive. I am just worn down by him and don't know what to do anymore. He is aggressive with his siblings, plays too rough with the dog and tells me he "hates me". I have caught him setting facecloths on fire in the bathroom sink, kicking his brother in the head, locking the dog in a box and he lies about almost everything. He is doing terribly in school and has no friends. I have tried time out, time in, taking privileges away, putting locks on doors that I don't want him to get into. We have tried counselling, medication and vitamins. I just don't know what to do anymore. I feel worn out and just a failure as a parent. Setting fires? Cruelty to animals? Pathological lying? Hmmm....does he wet the bed too? Have you ever heard of the sociopathic triangle = bedwetting, animal abuse, firesetting? Unfortunately this child is a sociopath, destined for a life of criminal behavior. There is nothing for you to "fix." He is an empty shell, a predator in the making. Protect yourself, your property, your pets, and your other children. He WILL harm them. He WILL end up in jail. Sorry. But at 8 years old, it's already too late for this kid. It's too bad his father wasn't around for him during his infancy and formative years.
sunshine3 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I have to say, I do feel for you and I have been there (still am) I too have a 8 year old with adhd and ODD. I finally took a step and put him on vyvanse last year, for the adhd. His special ed teacher and speech therapist both noticed a big difference in him (I didn't tell them he was on med when we returned to school in the fall) we also noticed a difference in him, but we still had the behavior issues, just not so severe. We had been seeing a behavioral specialist since he was 3. He would climb on top of my fridge (the last place I had to put anything so he couldn't get it) he was always into everything. spanking doesn't work, it just makes them more crazed and you are fueling the fire. my son use to say, haha you no hurt me. time outs didnt work, we put the locks on the doors the other way to lock him into the room. he would just climb out a window. Is there anything at all that he finds interest in? I found a lot of the time, he was bored.. give him something to put his energy into, buy a punching bag, help him talk through his anger. My son now plays baseball, going right into football and this year started snowboarding. The parenting classes are great as well as the other source the first responder posted. If you need an understanding ear, feel free to PM me...
missmanagement Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 I feel such compassion for you and wanted to write to give you some hope that things can get better! My daughter has ADHD and is off the charts defiant according to her test scores. She was not diagnosed till age 12 and I was a single mother for ten of those years. I was constantly exhausted. She had trouble in school for many years and they wanted to fail her in kindergarten and then she did remedial reading and summer reading for most years. I read books and tried techniques. A lot of it was just figuring out how to deal with each moment. She would push my buttons. On two separate occasions she ran out in front of cars intentionally. She ran away in a museum in NY...but just far enough so she could hide and see me but I could not see her. She constantly told me she hated me and refused to ever let me hug or kiss her. It was all about control, defiance and constant lack of control of herself. I could go on. I thought things would never change. Three things clearly helped. 1. she went on vyvanse for the ADHD. 2. we found a good counselor for her. 3. I stopped any form of raising my voice, threatening or judgment when she did something wrong. I simply made her do a physical punishment that tired her out. Typically this was pushups or wall sits. Let's say she said "shut up, mom".... I gave her ten pushups. If she said "no" to doing them, I simply said that will be ten more. If she said "no" again, I said, "it's your choice to say no, but I will keep giving you ten each time until you do them. So, you can do them now or let them add up, whichever you choose." The first time this happened, she laughed mockingly thinking I was kidding and she was in charge. I stood there waiting. it took a long time before she did them, but she did them. Eventually, I offered to get down and do them with her because the goal is for her to be successful at doing them. She did all 60 the first time and I praised her for her form and for succeeding. We also joked about how strong her biceps were going to be. She did many pushups the first few months, but now she almost never does a pushup. She even tells me she loves me now and gives me kisses several times a week before going to bed. Her grades are now straight A's for two years in a row. I won't tell you she never mouths off or never breaks rules, because that is not true, but I will tell you I have four daughters and she is manageable like the other teenagers now and life is much, much easier. So, hang in there! Don't give up. Hopefully, you can get some good testing done to isolate for sure if it is ODD or ADD and that will help. Sometimes, an SRI can also help when taken with an ADHD med.
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