Woggle Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Very sorry for your situation. What many men here are tired of is always hearing that situations such as yours arise -purely- because of bad men. For every situation such as yours, that involves a truly bad person, there are several where both the man -and- the woman are equally to blame for very poor and irresponsible choices with respect to having children. In those far more numerous cases, as woggle says, the woman is held up as a virtuous single mother struggling along while the man is viewed contemptuously as a deadbeat dad. Whenever men try to argue that in many single parent cases, the woman's bad behavior and poor choices are equally to blame as the man's, we are called misogynists, enemies of the family, woman bashers, all manner of ridiculous things merely for stating the plain truth. Exactly. My mother whined constantly about being a single mother yet she was the one who destroyed the relationship with my father and she was the one who did everything in her power to keep him out of my life. I think that many men who have been what he has been through have had it up to here with women playing the victim card.
Lishy Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 My post was not intended to start a debate on a whole different issue but rather one example of a group of women (growing daily and unfortunately) who can't by anyone's stretch of the imagination be categorized as living an adored existence on a pedestal as the OP stated. I guess I used this example because of my own life experience. I was married and we had a child. I left my alcoholic wife-beating husband when our son was 3 weeks old and all his attempts at stopping drinking and controlling his anger had failed. He made it clear he didn't think he needed to change. He beat me because he watched his father beat his mother - learned behavior. He hated what his father did but he wasn't able to NOT repeat it. I was 22 when I left. On the advice of his family, he didn't support our son because he thought he could starve me (and the baby) out and I would be forced to come back. I was determined to raise our son to be a man. Men do not hit women. I was determined that the cycle of violence would end within this one family. My ex exercised his visitation only as a means of having access to me. When he had no success, he stopped seeing our son, stopped paying child support. Later, he spent about 8 years in prison for attempted murder. Yes, he beat his next wife that badly. I have no ill feelings toward my ex-husband. I feel sorry for him - he was a victim. He only repeated what he learned, observed as a small boy; how could he NOT end up an abuser and addicted to something. I worked my ass off to support my child. And yes I made mistakes and one of them being a second pregnancy but I continued to work my ass off to raise both my children. I was never on any type of public assistance. I wasn't raised that way. I'm an attractive woman and had a fair share of marriage proposals from men who were more than willing to support me and my children - even after I told them I didn't love them. I didn't accept - I wasn't raised that way either. So today, I'm 45, my son is 23, and my daughter is 11. My son is a man, he has never hit a woman (I've checked and double-checked). I did that! I'm damn proud of that! He has had the same job for 3 years and is buying his own home. What I've just shared is deeply personal and my struggle and pain were going through my mind as I read the OP's statements about ALL WOMEN receiving adoration just for existing, on a pedestal, never growing up, never developing substance or depth. I couldn't help but think WTH? Yes I take it personally because I know there are a lot of women just like me - no one is pampering us, paying our way, or even bothering to care if we survive. We are not self absorbed baby-dolls. I've never met a woman who chose to have a child by herself. I know it happens in Hollywood but I don't pay attention to that. I'll concede that some women kick the men out of their children's lives but there are just as many men who choose to leave. Just as there are women with children of multiple fathers there are men with children of multiple mothers. Neither sex has reason to be proud on this matter. No kid is fatherless. I'm not a feminist and you'll see in my posts that I defend men when I feel it appropriate. I will never make asinine statements that cover ALL men. I think most women are like me. We date because we love men, we want one for ourselves, we haven't given up on them as a sex. We want to love a man and be loved by a man. It's that simple. I am new here and I've seen the women bashing threads and I'm asking myself "is this really the way the men posting feel about all women?" I don't know any women that fit the OP's description. There are no bad men, no bad women, only bad people. They would be bad regardless of sex. This post made me want to cry ... props to you tx
D-Jam Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I think SOME of what OpenGL showed in that posting is true. I agree there is a problem in American with Lipstick Feminism and the princesses it produces. I see it both in the High School graduate and College graduate levels of women who still run around like teenagers and act like their ***** don't stink when it does. HOWEVER, the same mistake made again is too many guys want to lump all women into this category. Or they'll dismiss any women who they don't find attractive and dismiss any women who aren't single...thus they only formulate their opinions of women based on the small sliver of the populace they pursue. I wrote a topic here on the "bad" people we see on our lives and how we should handle them. I think this is a prime example I was getting at. So you see the spoiled immature princess out being her usual self and yet getting guys left and right and possibly guys buying her things, etc. So you see her as someone who is succeeding in life by being "evil" and it bugs you that your being "good" is keeping you alone. How do you handle it? Stop worrying about her and worry about yourself. I watched one episode of Jersey Shore a week ago just to see what the hype is all about. I look at those cast members as people others will love to hate. So they'll get irked how these trashy guys and trashy girls get paid $10,000 to make an appearance at a club while you have to work 2-4 months to make $10,000. Women might look at those girls and wonder why guys would chase them over nice girls like themselves and guys wonder why the "Situation" gets more women by being a douche over the guys who try to be a gentleman. I ask you this...is it really worth the brainpower to focus on that tiny sliver of AWs? What about Jersey Shortie? Is she like those girls? No...she's stated how she's been dating shorter guys and even guys who aren't covered in tattoos and muscles. How about txsilkysmoothe? Did she bang some douchebag and ended up knocked up? No. She married a guy who might have put on a good nice guy act, but later turned into a jerk. Did she stay and make excuses for him or give him 1000 chances to get better? No, she left. What about all the women who don't put club pics or skimpy outfit pics on social networks? What about all the women who aren't on social networks? What about all the women who respect good men and go to Church on Sundays? What about all the women who maybe want to be Mrs. Someone and cook, clean, and take care of her man? Nowadays men run from such a woman rather than take her...thinking she's a mooch looking for a meal ticket. Rather than waste mental energy on why the populace of women one tends to only focus on are such "spoiled princesses", why not work to see if you can actually find these "good women" we all speak of? Why not put aside the laundry list of things like she must be athletically thin or model thin and has no kids and a college degree? I see men and women ask for many things out of someone when they themselves can't offer the same. Seek out that nice girl...but get out of the usual spots you look. MAKE FRIENDS WITH PEOPLE. BUILD YOUR SOCIAL CAPITAL. You think Rocky would have met Adrian at the local bar? You think most guys would have noticed her through those thick glasses and short hair? They're out there guys, but we tend to focus on the ones we believe are the "hot" or the ideal of "good looking". I've learned many of those women who focus like crazy on how they look are seeking out a guy who is a trophy for them. Thus again I show these women should not be worth your time (rather than you complain why they won't take your average self)
shadowplay Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Paris Hilton is an idiot, in every respect. She doesn't deserve any admiration. The only reason she's famous and has made as much money as she has is because she was filthy rich to begin with AND because she was willing to whore herself shamelessly to the media. It's not hard to figure out that if you make a whore out of yourself the media will lap it up. But most smart, wealthy women would never stoop to this level. Who wants to be famous for being a piece of human garbage? Yeah, partying for free and having lots of money is all well and good, but it's rather empty in the end if you have no real personality, interests or self respect. I get the sense she's a pretty miserable person. Otherwise she wouldn't need a constant stream of attention to feed her ego.
MissJoness Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I am in college and I see this mentality a lot around campus. The thing is that I thought guys liked girls like this: the ones who are overly dressed everyday, the ones who walk around with this swagger like they are hot shyt. I've seen girls who literally have this bouncy walk so you can see their tits and ass jiggle around campus. I figured girls wouldn't do this if guys didn't like it.
silverfish Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I am in college and I see this mentality a lot around campus. The thing is that I thought guys liked girls like this: the ones who are overly dressed everyday, the ones who walk around with this swagger like they are hot shyt. I've seen girls who literally have this bouncy walk so you can see their tits and ass jiggle around campus. I figured girls wouldn't do this if guys didn't like it. They do like it they just hate themselves for liking it
MissJoness Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 They do like it they just hate themselves for liking it Ok, so that's what it is...lol
Jersey Shortie Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 I'm really offended by this posting. It's not only condesending, but completely devoid of any personal accountablity and reflection about the OP's self or own gender. I am going to take this point by point because I can't think of any other way to address it. This is the result of a society that has told their children that they are all "beautiful little butterflies".....Men eventually outgrow it...well, most do to some extent, when society starts telling them that they're not kids any more and starts focusing on what they've DONE. I guess if you look like Megan Fox this is true. But I don't look like Megan Fox. Most women don't. So I guess it's hard to understand the OP when his reference is based on a very narrow, highly physically attractive set of women that MOST REAL GIRLS DON"T GET THE LUXARY OF BEING. How can you possibly believe you live in a world that says men have matured at a greater rate then women? It's just so completely untrue. Today, in these generations, both men and women can easily be immature. Should I provide examples? Okay I will. - A friend actually had a man leave her at a rest stop and drive off. - On first dates I've had men ask me for bjs and sex. Do you think these men were asking because they were mature and cared for me? - My friends and myself have all experienced at least one man that has toyed with our affections with no real desire to settle down with us. - Had an ex that took his father to a strip club behind his mother's back just so they could have fun at said strip club with a complete disregard that both of these men, in her life, had for her. - I've seen men humilate their wives or gfs infront of big family events where they had an audience to snidely and very slippery make her a bit of a joke. - I've seen many a men at football games or other public areas oggle cheearleader and made sexual comments to other men with their wives/gfs and KIDS sitting right there. - I've heard friends tel lme their man asked for a threesome. Not the kind of threesome to include another man. One that includes more women. - I've experienced men I was dating try very porno-like moves on me and expected me to be so appreciative and excited about it. - I've had boyfriends that at times would sit and play video games instead of helping to make dinner. - The woman I babysat for, her husband cheated on her, with a younger woman, while SHE had cancer. I could go on between my stories, and the stories of my friends. But for now, I will leave it at that. These are not hte actions of mature wordly men. But these are the actions, of average joes at times. Women...they are baby-dolls all their lives. Everyone wants to see what they're doing every minute of their lives, regardless of how "interesting" it is I have good parents. That gave me many oppurtunies and encouragement. But I have never been treated like a china-doll and told that everything I did was interesting just because I have a vagina. This is just so completely offensive because it completely disregards the growing pains, the issues, the heartache, the peer discouragment that both men and WOMEN go through. Yes that's right guys, women have their own heartaches and pain. But why concern yourself with that when you can live in your safe little bubble projecting and untruth about women that makes you feel better as a man. I feel the furthest thing from being a "baby-doll". And to be quite honest, I would say that's true for 98% of the female population. Because we see how interchangable we are. And we KNOW all the other options out there that men have. And men are hardly sitting around saying how wonderful we are most of the time. Infact, it's often quite the opposite. A lot of this is due to the glorification of the female sexuality through pornography. Remember, in our parents' generation, buying "porn" was an embarassing proposition. You had to either ask the guy to give you a dirty mag from one side of the counter, or if you wanted video, you had to go to one of "THOSE places". Now you can just log on to any computer and there it is. And RIDICULOUS fetish crap too. Not even SEXUAL stuff. I messed around with a girl once who ran a website that showed pictures of women getting their cars stuck in the mud. Not even naked...just women getting stuck. And dudes paid money to jerk it to this! Oh I totally agree. The glorification of female sexuality is a huge problem. And who are the top comsumers and pushers of pornography? Men. And how does porn often protray women? Certainly not as strong indivdualistic women with power and respect. They are protrayed and submissive, eager to please, perfect bodied young woman that only want men men men. So it's not even a true glorification for real female sexuality. More honestly, it's a glorfication of how men wish female sexuality is and protraying a fantasy ideal that more and mroe young girls and women are trying to live up to so men like them. And yes, it is completely ridiculous. Women are a dime a dozen. And every woman in the world feels that and understands that. if you think for a second we have the "power" because we are made into nothing but sex objects, you would be completely wrong. It's actually quite the opposite. That's just it these days...women are adored JUST FOR EXISTING. They are pedestalled from day one as kids and as they mature, they blossom sexually and CONTINUE to be pedstalled by men who will pay money just for a GLIMPSE of "what she's doing". Please let me know where this pedstal is. I believe it must be somewhere over the rainbow. Please do not confused "adored" for being sexually lusted after. Women today are not adored in the least for just existing. We are condemned. We are told we are sluts if we are too sexual. We are told we are prudes if we are not sexual enough. We are expected to be the models for virtue in public and the sex kitten in the bedroom and we are all suppose to learn how to do this while having amazing bodies too that don't have flaws! Adored? Just look at all that porn you were jsut talkign about. YOu think that's women being adored? That's women being humilated, objectified used and tossed aside for the next fresh blood. It's like they believe it's their purpose in life to entertain sappy men. They post some picture on their FaceBook of them partying and wait for the comments. Not just from their friends, but from all the gay dudes who, instead of being out climbing mountains and building bridges, are hanging out on FaceBook posting comments like, "Looking good, girl!" 500 "friends" and she doesn't know 400 of them. But they feed her with attention and validate her pathetic existence. Intesting that her existence is pathetic but these men's time and attention to these girls is not. Perhaps men should spend their time and engery on the t ype of women they do find les pathetic. But that would actually mean having options and choices and I don't think the OP wants to know about optiosn and choices because he might actually have to work at excersing them. They used to "hit the wall" at about 35, when they started getting old and their looks started to fade a little. Now we have MILFs and G-MILFs and all this other nonsense. That's right! keep the little woman down good! What awful Beootches thinking they deserve love and happiness after 35. That's what MEN deserve NOT women. How dare those women take just as long to settle down when men have been doing that for GENERATIONS! These women grew up watching women like Britney Spears and Paris Hilton as they got out of their limos and the world watched. "What's she doing now? OMG!!" Why was Paris Hilton a star, anyway? Anyone remember? Oh yeah, some dumb night-vision BJ video. She was a sexual train-wreck ready to happen. If we al lremember correctly, Britney Spears built her fantasy on being a man's wet fantasy porno dream, not woman's. And least us not ask ourselves, how many men spent time looking at Paris's sex videos compared to women. Because I bet for sure more men feed that trainwreck then women did. And then came MySpace and FaceBook. Suddenly, they had their own personal online media outlet, where all they needed was a 5-megapixel camera and suddenly they could ALL be starlets-for-nothing. Why shouldn't we do that? Post pictures of ourselves being sexy having fun? How many men with gfs and wives have been sitting infront of their computers before myspace and facebook looking at other pictures of sexy girls? And why don't women grow out of this and become "interesting"? Because for some reason, people insist on reinforcing that they ARE "interesting", even when they're not. Wrong. Women worry about their looks because this is what men choose to focus on. Do not expect women to not care about their looks and how men respond to them if men infact DO care about their looks FIRST. The problem is that no one has the balls any more to tell the empresses that they have no clothes. This is what's been propped up by an entire generation that was fed garbage by the media and the entertainment industries and doesn't have the sense to throw it back up and get real. We have all been feed garbage from the media and entertainment industries. But I do enjoy how this person chooses to focus on women and fails to even touch the negative affects on men, their behaviors and how they treat women in turn.
EricaH329 Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 But I do enjoy how this person chooses to focus on women and fails to even touch the negative affects on men, their behaviors and how they treat women in turn. Because this is the he-man woman haters club!
donnamaybe Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 At LAST! You guys finally GET IT! We are special; to be catered to hand and foot; to be purchased extravagent gifts and be taken care of. Get over it.
hollywood undead Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 it’s because *drum roll please* that’s what MEN want and women will do things to please men because obviously women want a mate and that's what men expect this day and age. Men are the ones who grew up looking at Playboys and sneaking onto the computer at night to see porn after the internet was born. Men are the ones who now have ridiculous ideas of what beauty is and what they want their women to look like and act like and if they're not getting crazy sex they go out and find it elsewhere. Exactly. I find it ironic that men are complaining about the women-worshipping-culture when they are the ones keeping it alive. Like I said in another thread, there is a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to physical assessments. How many men complain about shallow women when they would only be willing to hook up with a model-type? How many of the men who post messages about superficial women would be willing to give the plain-Jane woman a second look? If a woman's ENTIRE value is the physical, then why is it wrong for her to judge you on the same superficial scale (i.e. your bank account)? If a man wants to judge a woman, why is it wrong when a woman judges a man? Is it wrong because now YOU are the one being judged? Women are merely being as superficial to you as you are to them, so you shouldn't whine about your poor selves when you do the same thing to women all the time, just in different forms. Men need to realize that they've created this monster. You need to stop feeding a culture that only judges women by their looks. Because as long as you look for t & a, women will look for wallets and bank accounts. Superficiality breeds superficiality.
Mr White Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 I like sex as much as the next guy, but it is ridiculous that it has become as the center of all life, and one of the measures of how manly/feminine you are, and how good is your quality of life . In some aspects, focusing on higher pursuits and seeing a hooker every once in a while seems like a much better life than scrambling to do all the right things so you could get all the right relationship/ marriage and the sex that (supposedly) comes with it .
Sharla Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 My post was not intended to start a debate on a whole different issue but rather one example of a group of women (growing daily and unfortunately) who can't by anyone's stretch of the imagination be categorized as living an adored existence on a pedestal as the OP stated. I guess I used this example because of my own life experience. I was married and we had a child. I left my alcoholic wife-beating husband when our son was 3 weeks old and all his attempts at stopping drinking and controlling his anger had failed. He made it clear he didn't think he needed to change. He beat me because he watched his father beat his mother - learned behavior. He hated what his father did but he wasn't able to NOT repeat it. I was 22 when I left. On the advice of his family, he didn't support our son because he thought he could starve me (and the baby) out and I would be forced to come back. I was determined to raise our son to be a man. Men do not hit women. I was determined that the cycle of violence would end within this one family. My ex exercised his visitation only as a means of having access to me. When he had no success, he stopped seeing our son, stopped paying child support. Later, he spent about 8 years in prison for attempted murder. Yes, he beat his next wife that badly. I have no ill feelings toward my ex-husband. I feel sorry for him - he was a victim. He only repeated what he learned, observed as a small boy; how could he NOT end up an abuser and addicted to something. I worked my ass off to support my child. And yes I made mistakes and one of them being a second pregnancy but I continued to work my ass off to raise both my children. I was never on any type of public assistance. I wasn't raised that way. I'm an attractive woman and had a fair share of marriage proposals from men who were more than willing to support me and my children - even after I told them I didn't love them. I didn't accept - I wasn't raised that way either. So today, I'm 45, my son is 23, and my daughter is 11. My son is a man, he has never hit a woman (I've checked and double-checked). I did that! I'm damn proud of that! He has had the same job for 3 years and is buying his own home. What I've just shared is deeply personal and my struggle and pain were going through my mind as I read the OP's statements about ALL WOMEN receiving adoration just for existing, on a pedestal, never growing up, never developing substance or depth. I couldn't help but think WTH? Yes I take it personally because I know there are a lot of women just like me - no one is pampering us, paying our way, or even bothering to care if we survive. We are not self absorbed baby-dolls. I've never met a woman who chose to have a child by herself. I know it happens in Hollywood but I don't pay attention to that. I'll concede that some women kick the men out of their children's lives but there are just as many men who choose to leave. Just as there are women with children of multiple fathers there are men with children of multiple mothers. Neither sex has reason to be proud on this matter. No kid is fatherless. I'm not a feminist and you'll see in my posts that I defend men when I feel it appropriate. I will never make asinine statements that cover ALL men. I think most women are like me. We date because we love men, we want one for ourselves, we haven't given up on them as a sex. We want to love a man and be loved by a man. It's that simple. I am new here and I've seen the women bashing threads and I'm asking myself "is this really the way the men posting feel about all women?" I don't know any women that fit the OP's description. There are no bad men, no bad women, only bad people. They would be bad regardless of sex. I for one, do not feel sorry for your husband. I feel sorry for you and your son. My dad was very tough on me and my siblings physically and verbally growing up, we could have chosen a very crooked path in life because of it, but fortunately we didn’t. Our father is no longer that “person”, but that came 20 + years later and choosing the love and happiness of his children. My uncle was physically abusive to his wife and his children, and it took his son dying and his father shortly after, for him to want to change. And he has. Your husband chose to beat you and other people. He deserves to be in jail. There are a few members on this board, that I feel very little empathy for, they’ve had a tough life which is unfortunate. But that does not give them the right to sit on their lazy arses with a woe is me mentality, and treat other people like dirt in the process.
Jersey Shortie Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 I like sex as much as the next guy, but it is ridiculous that it has become as the center of all life, and one of the measures of how manly/feminine you are, and how good is your quality of life . In some aspects, focusing on higher pursuits and seeing a hooker every once in a while seems like a much better life than scrambling to do all the right things so you could get all the right relationship/ marriage and the sex that (supposedly) comes with it . Better life? I don't think that's true. Easier life? Quite possibly yes. Because in that kind of set-up, all you have to do is think of yourself first. You don't hae to exert engery into investing in someone else emotionally. That's hard work. Some people are incapable of doing that. But I think they really miss out. Some would argue that that's not a bad thing, livng the type of life you suggested. But I don't think the purpose of life is to self gratify. Or to live for only ones self. I also wonder what you think "higher pursuits" are over human relationships, ones that you don't have to pay for.
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