JaneInVegas Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) We're in the aftermath of his EA. He gave me the password to his cell phone records and his email accounts. He has given me a dozen passive apologies, and one BIG apology that was strong, sincere, heart-felt, and made me burst into tears as soon as he finished. He promised me that no matter what it takes, he would make things right. I thought after that I would be emotionally cleansed of the whole ordeal, but it's creeping back up on me again. Why? Why can't it just leave me alone? I don't want to keep reliving this, I want to be done with it! I KNOW that he's sorry, and I am pretty confidant it's completely over with between the two of them. (I hate to sound jaded, but does anyone really know for sure if an affair is over with?) But sometimes I see him looking off into space, and I wonder if he's thinking about her. He looks sad so often, and lost in thought. He had a 7 year affair with her (she's in another state) and 90% of those 7 years was before he even met me. That makes me think he's never going to be able to end it, he's just too addicted to her. This morning we were discussing things and I said, "Your apology was really great, but you promised you would make things right again, and you haven't really done that yet." Very sweetly he replied, "What would you like for me to do?" And you know what? ... I had no answer for him. What CAN he do? Could someone tell me something special they have done to fix their wrong? I don't want him to buy me flowers, or jewellry, or even kiss my ass ... I just feel like there is something still missing in my heart. I hate feeling like this. Edited January 19, 2010 by JaneInVegas
crazycatlady Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 Jane - you won't be right for a long time. You were betrayed and hurt. It works both ways. You must forgive and let it go. And that can take a great deal of time and some people can never manage it. He's going to think of her sometimes, and you have to expect it. You don't have to like it, but its going to happen and he's going to be sad about it. By harping on him to stop, its only going to make matters worse. Emotions denied resurface a great deal. I find it is more helpful by letting the emotion come, look at it, examine it, embrace it, and then let it go on its way, and hopefully each time it comes it will be less and less. That's for both of you. The more you try to deny and push it down the more it will come creeping back. The best thing you can do is talk about it. A lot. He needs to be patient with you as you work through the emotions. It can take a number of years from what i've heard on here. But, also share your good feelings with each other. When you are feeling close embrace that with him, share the good too. Otherwise its going to feel like there is no good. Both types of emotions need to be shared with the other. Good luck. Its so hard to do. CCL
LakesideDream Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 I don't believe that the Trust is ever regained after an affair. My opinion now is that we learn how to deal with the situation. Time goes by and we become more comfortable in new relationship roles. Let some "wise ones" offer their experiances and thoughts as well. Did you forgive... or just learn how to deal with the situation?
2sure Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 My H asked me a million times what he could do after D-day, to make things better for me. So like you, we went down the list of obvious and recommended things like complete transparency and MC, etc. Like you, I stilll was not 100% and he continued to apologize and ask what he could do. I know the answer now. The answer to that question is: I DONT KNOW. YOU FIGURE IT OUT. And now - I'm of course not saying he was supposed to read my mind, and I'm not disputing that recovery must be done together. But - I dont know what you have to do to fix this, I just know you have to do something. Because the heavy lifting here...is yours. Not mine. You broke it, you fix it. The best I can do is tell you that I am sincerely open to your attempts and suggestions. If YOU supplying a black and white answer to his question is supposed to fix it, then thats like putting the whole thing back into your lap, making it your problem. And you know what else I think? (lol) The WS HAS got to find their own way around some of this stuff and back to you ON THEIR OWN. Or its fruitless.
reservoirdog1 Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 I KNOW that he's sorry, and I am pretty confidant it's completely over with between the two of them. (I hate to sound jaded, but does anyone really know for sure if an affair is over with?) But sometimes I see him looking off into space, and I wonder if he's thinking about her. He looks sad so often, and lost in thought. He had a 7 year affair with her (she's in another state) and 90% of those 7 years was before he even met me. That makes me think he's never going to be able to end it, he's just too addicted to her. I'm not sure I understand the timeline here. The way I read the above, he was in the "relationship" with her for about six years, then met you and started a relationship with you, and kept seeing her on the side, for about another year. And it sounds like he just broke it off with her fairly recently. Which would mean that your relationship with him is fairly new. Am I right about all that? If I'm right, then IMHO you have to consider the value of your relationship with him -- because from my perspective, it was stillborn and never had a chance. He was deceiving you from the word go, and there has never been a time in the relationship (until recently) where there WASN'T a whole second layer of shyt beneath the surface that you didn't know about. If I'm wrong, then a seven-year affair is still something tough to get over. There's no magic cure-all. You will feel like there's "something still missing" for some time. I wish I could tell you something more encouraging, but the only thing with the potential to heal it is time. And as far as trust goes, he needs to keep his life as an open book to you, and bend over backwards to regain your trust. Remember, trust is built by a consistent pattern of verifiable behaviour. And again, that will take time, and work on his part.
Spark1111 Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 MY Ws did it all: apologies, IC, transparency, some MC (we are currently looking for a new one) passion, romance and a**-kissing. Here is the one thing he could not do: talk about it; his feelings, his motivations, his affair experience, out of shame, remorse....residual feelings, whatever. For me, it became and somewhat remains the big pink elephant in the middle of the room. How can we truly re-establish intimacy if you won't talk about it? For me, that is what was missing.
wheream_i Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 Well since you're asking, me personally, I chose to walk away. D-Day (as I understand it is the day the bottom fell out?) happened not once but twice. I was given the option of coughing up complete phone records, counseling, where I'm at and where I'm going every second of the day. The whole nine yards. I understand that's pretty much the only way to regain any trust. And it turns out that was too much for me. I take full responsibility for my actions. She has taken me back every single time but only under those conditions. And she still has serious anger and emotional issues with the whole ordeal,especially when alcohol is involved. In my mind, I don't think anybody should have to live like that. Under the cloak of suspicion for the rest of their lives or rest of your time together. I say cut your losses. You'll never get over it and you'll always wonder what he's thinking about or where he's at if he's not under your thumb.
Gabriele Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 I totally feel your situation! My H is truly sorry as well, has expressed that, and tries all the time to 'fix it' make me feel better. and just like you........it always creeps back. What I have concluded is that I just need CONSTANT REASSURANCE. and that for me means his optimism in regards to our future,apologies, talking about it when I need to, and reassurance about his love for me. gotta run.......did not see the time! I think i said my thoughts anyhow. there is no pill to take it away!!!!! big hug, Gabriele
Author JaneInVegas Posted January 20, 2010 Author Posted January 20, 2010 Thank you everyone for your kind words of advice! I wish I knew how to set quotes in one post, but since I don't I'll comment on other's posts separately. Could someone tell me how to do that?
Author JaneInVegas Posted January 20, 2010 Author Posted January 20, 2010 He's going to think of her sometimes, and you have to expect it. You don't have to like it, but its going to happen and he's going to be sad about it. By harping on him to stop, its only going to make matters worse. He needs to be patient with you as you work through the emotions. It can take a number of years from what i've heard on here. CCL, this hit home pretty hard, and I know it's true. But I don't harp on him, even though the urge rears it's ugly head from time to time. He's had the patience of Job with me while I've been processing things out. I didn't expect him to, but he has.
Author JaneInVegas Posted January 20, 2010 Author Posted January 20, 2010 Did you forgive... or just learn how to deal with the situation? Well, I didn't say the words 'I forgive you', and I'm not sure if I'm capable of doing that just yet. I'm afraid if I tried to, they might sound bitter and empty. I'd prefer to wait until I could sound more genuine. Well, I guess that means I haven't forgiven him yet, huh? I want to forgive him, and I want to put it behind us. I guess I'm still just a little too raw yet.
Author JaneInVegas Posted January 20, 2010 Author Posted January 20, 2010 The answer to that question is: I DONT KNOW. YOU FIGURE IT OUT. And now - I'm of course not saying he was supposed to read my mind, and I'm not disputing that recovery must be done together. If YOU supplying a black and white answer to his question is supposed to fix it, then thats like putting the whole thing back into your lap, making it your problem. And you know what else I think? (lol) The WS HAS got to find their own way around some of this stuff and back to you ON THEIR OWN. Or its fruitless. I agree with this totally. He's floundering as bad as I am right now, and I was just hoping to maybe get some ideas here, something to get us started in the right direction. I just feel so ..... LOST.
Author JaneInVegas Posted January 20, 2010 Author Posted January 20, 2010 I'm not sure I understand the timeline here. The way I read the above, he was in the "relationship" with her for about six years, then met you and started a relationship with you, and kept seeing her on the side, for about another year. And it sounds like he just broke it off with her fairly recently. Which would mean that your relationship with him is fairly new. Am I right about all that? If I'm right, then IMHO you have to consider the value of your relationship with him -- because from my perspective, it was stillborn and never had a chance. He was deceiving you from the word go, and there has never been a time in the relationship (until recently) where there WASN'T a whole second layer of shyt beneath the surface that you didn't know about. If I'm wrong, then a seven-year affair is still something tough to get over. There's no magic cure-all. You will feel like there's "something still missing" for some time. I wish I could tell you something more encouraging, but the only thing with the potential to heal it is time. And as far as trust goes, he needs to keep his life as an open book to you, and bend over backwards to regain your trust. Remember, trust is built by a consistent pattern of verifiable behaviour. And again, that will take time, and work on his part. Yeah, the timeline thing is kind of confusing. He had a 6 year physical affair with her in Colorado, and then moved to Vegas to start over again and try to forget her. (he was single when he left, she was still married ... IS still married) He hooked up with me in June of 08, and I haven't been able to figure out who approached who first, or when, but the first proof I have of their communicating was October of 08. So yeah, only 4 months at best. I know a lot of people think I should leave him, but it's really not what I want to do. Except for this one character flaw (albeit a pretty flippin' drastic one) he is an excellent partner, and treats me like a princess.
Author JaneInVegas Posted January 20, 2010 Author Posted January 20, 2010 What I have concluded is that I just need CONSTANT REASSURANCE. and that for me means his optimism in regards to our future,apologies, talking about it when I need to, and reassurance about his love for me. I've been thinking I need the constant reassurance, too. And while it's something I think I need and probably deserve, I'm afraid if I expect too much of it from him, he's going to go bonkers and just give up. He's a very patient man, but we're both very weary of dealing with all the emotional aftermath of this mess.
on1wheel Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 That response was well phrased...did you really forgive or just learn to deal with it? I once thought that I forgave, said I forgave; turned out that all I did was learn to deal with it, as it just kept coming back again & again. Some people can forgive, some can't; just depends on how deep the betrayal I think. It has been 2 years for me since I agreed to stay for my babies sake & she does EVERYTHING (I will admit that) to make it up to me. But I am reminded of her A & all of the things that came with it. I don't think I'll ever forgive her, I'll surely never forget; guess I'll just have to live with it. After all, I said I would die to protect my child from harm/hurt; isn't suffering for the rest of my life a bargain comparitively speaking??? Nobody forced me to stay. I put my childs needs/happiness ahead of my own & I'd do it again if I had to do it all over again. God, that makes me scared just saying that. I wish you well. Maybe you are the type that can get past it...time will tell.
jennie-jennie Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Thank you everyone for your kind words of advice! I wish I knew how to set quotes in one post, but since I don't I'll comment on other's posts separately. Could someone tell me how to do that? Use the + button next to the Quote button. Press + on all posts you want to quote, then lastly press the Quote button.
jennie-jennie Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Yeah, the timeline thing is kind of confusing. He had a 6 year physical affair with her in Colorado, and then moved to Vegas to start over again and try to forget her. (he was single when he left, she was still married ... IS still married) He hooked up with me in June of 08, and I haven't been able to figure out who approached who first, or when, but the first proof I have of their communicating was October of 08. So yeah, only 4 months at best. I know a lot of people think I should leave him, but it's really not what I want to do. Except for this one character flaw (albeit a pretty flippin' drastic one) he is an excellent partner, and treats me like a princess. Wow, this really shows the power of extramarital relationships. He moved to try to forget her, he got married, and still... So sorry you are suffering, Jane, it must be very hard on you.
scorpmale009 Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 it's the power of foolishness. jane, i don't know why do you want to be with him after this ,since you want to be married, let the other BS know about this which will disable them from any further contact....apart from that i don't see any thing you could ever do
crazycatlady Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Jane - I don't think forgiveness is somethng that you can force. I also don't think its something you do just once. I don't believe in forcing forgiveness either. I think by accepting that you are going to feel this way off and on for a while will help lesson its strenght on you. Don't deny your feelings either. But if you want to save your M you can't hold on to the negative feelings either. One way to try, when you first start dating someone, you don't wrap your heart up and give it to them on a platter. They have to earn it. What you could try doing is dating again, let him woo you again. In wooing he'll be giving you the reassurances that you are craving. However, knowing more the of the story.....I honestly don't know if you can trust him not to go back to her. Back history like that is dangerous and alluring. Anytime things get rough at home, he's going to be tempted. And I think you need to sit down with yourself and have a very deep conversation that any time you have an issue with each other, he just might check out into the A again. Not any A, the A with her. So you gotta figure out if this guy is worth the possible heartache. Or even if you could share since it is long distance because he treats you so well in other areas. I would expect at least one more slip up at the very least. No one can answers these for you. You have to decide what your limit is, what you can forgive and what you can compromise and deal with if it were to happen again. CCL
silktricks Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) I doubt that there's an easy answer. It took me somewhere in the vicinity of 4 years to recover - it kept recurring. I can tell you easily things that don't work.... Trying not to think about it. Trying not to mention it when you're thinking about it. Trying to feel safe by either controlling or tracking his movements. Trying to figure out what's going on in his brain. Trying to not feel jealous, scared, or anything else. You've got to pretty much go with whatever is running through you at the moment. If you can grab it and understand what caused it, you may even find that it doesn't have a lot to do with the "situation" at hand.. One thing we did that helped me, was we set out a time to talk about "hard things". That way he wouldn't be blindsided and I would be able to let things slide so that I didn't obsess constantly. But, everyone has their own time-line for healing. Mine was extra long because of some other stuff that happened at the same time. But, I can tell you that you can recover and regain complete trust. It's difficult, and takes a lot out of both of you, though. But, like other people have said - forgiveness is a process, not an ending. Recovering from a long term affair (as your partner is doing) is also a process. Edited January 20, 2010 by silktricks
reservoirdog1 Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 I know a lot of people think I should leave him, but it's really not what I want to do. Except for this one character flaw (albeit a pretty flippin' drastic one) he is an excellent partner, and treats me like a princess. I think there was a soundbyte from a civic politician several years ago, somewhere in the US: "Outside of the murders, we have the lowest crime rate in the country." Ahh well... it seems that most members of royalty are philanderers anyway, so I guess he DOES treat you "like a princess". I'm not aiming sarcasm at you; just trying to illustrate the disconnect in your thinking. And it's a disconnect that most people in your position share (I've been there too). Thinking about things rationally when you're hurting is next to impossible. The answer may well not come quickly. Give it time, and think about not just what you want (which may be unobtainable from him), but also about what you deserve.
Author JaneInVegas Posted January 21, 2010 Author Posted January 21, 2010 I think there was a soundbyte from a civic politician several years ago, somewhere in the US: "Outside of the murders, we have the lowest crime rate in the country." Ahh well... it seems that most members of royalty are philanderers anyway, so I guess he DOES treat you "like a princess". I'm not aiming sarcasm at you; just trying to illustrate the disconnect in your thinking. And it's a disconnect that most people in your position share (I've been there too). Thinking about things rationally when you're hurting is next to impossible. The answer may well not come quickly. Give it time, and think about not just what you want (which may be unobtainable from him), but also about what you deserve. Duly noted and appreciated, Res. I get what you're saying. I have done messed up things in my life (including past affairs) and have always appreciated it when given a second chance. I have my keylogger, and it tells no lies ...
silverplanets Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 It sounds as if he is still in love with her (or at least working through his grief/feelings of that period) It's easy to say but he shouldn't have started any new relationship until he was completely sorted ... Being harsh - it sounds like he has much baggage .. If he's been seeing you then he may not really have come to terms with all of this ... and that may be a red flag sign for you ....
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