Dating Karma coming back to bite you in the Ass

[sumdude]

Interesting this post comes up because it's been on my mind.

 

Three years ago when my wife moved out without warning and left me for another man I went through a lot of anger. She remarried less than a year later. The sheer number of lies and deception, the way she treated me really hurt. I still have no idea what was true and what wasn't.

 

There were times I hoped that her new husband would cheat and leave her the way she did me. I wanted some kind of justice I thought. Still I knew these thoughts were against my nature. She's a compulsive liar and has some deep issues. I imagine if that hasn't changed then this relationship would eventually fail. Did I wish for that? Hard to say. I had forgiven her and myself.

 

I've moved on with life, dated some. It's been a hard couple years with my father's passing. I've been feeling jaded at times about love and dating. A lot of the negative gender posts here don't help.

 

The other day I read a book, a true story. Main character had been running around with many many women for years. Just moving on to the next one. Suddenly he meets one who is different, even the sex was different.. there was love and connection. Reading it I remembered what is was life the first few years with my wife. I remembered just how much I loved her. It affected me deeply, I broke down for a bit. Yeah, real men cry sometimes.

 

Then I realized the truth I needed to see even beyond the forgiveness. She deserved to be happy, content and at peace. If I had ever loved her I should wish this for her. The same realization was that I too deserved those same things. It wasn't just at the rational level, I felt these things.

 

So for karma I think my take on it is the first line in my sig which I wrote a couple years back.

 

"Whatever you project the world will reflect, right back at you."

[betamanlet]

Was reading another thread and the notion of karma came up.

 

Anyone truly believe this, or have evidence of this in relation to dating?

 

Unfortunately, from what I've seen those who deserve what's coming to them just carry on as normal with no reprecussions from karma, or God, or whatever higher source you might care to believe in - in fact many of them are often rewarded further for bad behaviour towards others.

 

I love the concept of karma (particularly when I feel hard done by!!!) but life doesn't work that way - or does it? Anyone any examples of karma in action?

 

No such thing as karma, let alone dating karma. I've been honest, faithful, and loyal to absolutely everyone (no matter how few) I have dated, and I've beedn lied to, cheated on, and dumped, and they were always able to get someone else, while I go years and years without having anyone...

 

One of the most dishonest women I know, who was a constant cheater, married a rich guy, so even if he divorces her, she's gonna get a crapload of money..

[paddington bear]

Sumdude that is where I'd like to be able to get to, not to be angry and resentful, not to wish that they get what's coming to them and beyond simply not caring into wishing them the best despite the past. I think that stage is hard to get to (if ever) so well done you. Since I'm still suffering from the aftershocks of a situation, every time something bad happens that is a direct consequence of what happened to me, I get angry all over again. I know it's bad, I know I should stop, but it's really hard.

 

Betamenlet: I've been honest, faithful, and loyal to absolutely everyone (no matter how few) I have dated, and I've beedn lied to, cheated on, and dumped, and they were always able to get someone else, while I go years and years without having anyone...

 

Snap, that's pretty much me, but female. Therapist said to me the other day, 'you're too good for this world' and I thought 'is that a compliment? Oh wait, no, she means I'm a total doormat'. I have boundaries, but I think they are too far back, that's my problem. So I guess I fall into the realm of 'I'm so nice, why aren't people nice back?' instead of just bailing at the first sign of bad behaviour

[sumdude]

Sumdude that is where I'd like to be able to get to, not to be angry and resentful, not to wish that they get what's coming to them and beyond simply not caring into wishing them the best despite the past. I think that stage is hard to get to (if ever) so well done you. Since I'm still suffering from the aftershocks of a situation, every time something bad happens that is a direct consequence of what happened to me, I get angry all over again. I know it's bad, I know I should stop, but it's really hard.

 

Betamenlet: I've been honest, faithful, and loyal to absolutely everyone (no matter how few) I have dated, and I've beedn lied to, cheated on, and dumped, and they were always able to get someone else, while I go years and years without having anyone...

 

Snap, that's pretty much me, but female. Therapist said to me the other day, 'you're too good for this world' and I thought 'is that a compliment? Oh wait, no, she means I'm a total doormat'. I have boundaries, but I think they are too far back, that's my problem. So I guess I fall into the realm of 'I'm so nice, why aren't people nice back?' instead of just bailing at the first sign of bad behaviour

 

It's taken three years and some hard stuff to get where I am. Lots of soul searching and wondering what the h*** life is all about. Still a work in progress.

 

As far as your therapists comment? There's another angle, one I've had to look at hard in myself. Expectations... I'm nice, decent etc etc etc so the 'world' somehow owes that back to me. Life doesn't work that way. Be that way because that's who you are forget about what the world does or thinks. It's not a gumball machine where you put in a quarter and get a gumball.

[paddington bear]

It's taken three years and some hard stuff to get where I am. Lots of soul searching and wondering what the h*** life is all about. Still a work in progress.

 

As far as your therapists comment? There's another angle, one I've had to look at hard in myself. Expectations... I'm nice, decent etc etc etc so the 'world' somehow owes that back to me. Life doesn't work that way. Be that way because that's who you are forget about what the world does or thinks. It's not a gumball machine where you put in a quarter and get a gumball.

 

That's the thing, and I'm wondering where I got this attitude from: that if I'm nice and kind and good that I will get rewarded by reciprocal behaviour...oh wait, yes, years of brainwashing from a Catholic school ..along with the attendant guilt for daring to think anything bad or for being selfish (i.e. not allowing others to trample over you).

 

Thanks for the gumball imagery, I'll use that every time I think 'but so and so deserves to have some kind of retribution from the universe for their behaviour'...because they didn't put a bad penny in and get a rotten gumball in return either.

 

Your story reminds me of a book I read 'The Game of Life and how to play it' by Florence Scovel Shinn (I've spelled her name wrong). Ok she talks about God a lot, but replace that with 'universe' or whatever and her advise is pretty sound. In one story she recommended to a woman who had been left by the man she loved that only when she got to the stage of blessing him and wishing him well, despite the hurt he caused would she have a chance to get him back (and of course, out of the blue, he returned).

 

Whether genuine forgiveness and 'blessing' works to regain lost affections is debatable, however, if that is the outcome, good, but if not, reaching the stage you are now at at least finally frees you from bitter feelings which can only be a good thing.

 

(here's a link:http://www.sacred-texts.com/nth/shinn/gol/gol07.htm)

[betamanlet]

Sumdude that is where I'd like to be able to get to, not to be angry and resentful, not to wish that they get what's coming to them and beyond simply not caring into wishing them the best despite the past. I think that stage is hard to get to (if ever) so well done you. Since I'm still suffering from the aftershocks of a situation, every time something bad happens that is a direct consequence of what happened to me, I get angry all over again. I know it's bad, I know I should stop, but it's really hard.

 

Betamenlet: I've been honest, faithful, and loyal to absolutely everyone (no matter how few) I have dated, and I've beedn lied to, cheated on, and dumped, and they were always able to get someone else, while I go years and years without having anyone...

 

Snap, that's pretty much me, but female. Therapist said to me the other day, 'you're too good for this world' and I thought 'is that a compliment? Oh wait, no, she means I'm a total doormat'. I have boundaries, but I think they are too far back, that's my problem. So I guess I fall into the realm of 'I'm so nice, why aren't people nice back?' instead of just bailing at the first sign of bad behaviour

 

 

I honetsly have no idea if I'm a doormat, I certainly don't think I am, and I've never really gotten much of explanations from exes, so I'm kind of always guessing "why?" I guess the thing I "ignored" about my last gf was that she would flake every once in a while saying she wasn't sure if us together was a good idea, then i told her that I want to be with her, but if she wants her space/time that's okay, and to take it. She would then soon thereafter say she's convinced she wants to be with me, until I got dumped.

[D-Jam]

I don't believe in dating karma. I've seen people use and abuse and still come out ahead in life. I've seen guys hurt women and treat them like crap, but they eventually find a model and settle down or still attract young hot trash. I've seen bitchy snobby princesses still land a sugar daddy in marriage. Some mooch and others cheat, divorce, and still come out ahead.

 

In my experiences, the ones who end up "bad" in life end up there because of their attitudes, selection criteria, and behavior. So the girl who blew me off and ended up in one Bad Boy RL after the next didn't get bad karma...it was her selection standards and what she wants in a man is why she keeps ending up single and hurt.

 

People need to stop seeking "justice". Life isn't meant to be fair. Take it by the reigns, or be trampled.

[paddington bear]

I honetsly have no idea if I'm a doormat, I certainly don't think I am, and I've never really gotten much of explanations from exes, so I'm kind of always guessing "why?" I guess the thing I "ignored" about my last gf was that she would flake every once in a while saying she wasn't sure if us together was a good idea, then i told her that I want to be with her, but if she wants her space/time that's okay, and to take it. She would then soon thereafter say she's convinced she wants to be with me, until I got dumped.

 

No, I didn't think I was a doormat as well. I'm not, but as I said my boundaries would be maybe way back further than other peoples or borderline standing up for myself and at the same time not.

 

For example, guy I really liked and clicked with gave me the 'I just wanna be friends' line. I told him straight up that this would only mean that he would use me as a substitute girlfriend and then drop me when he met a real girlfriend and I didn't want that to happen and it would be a crap situation for me. Which was not doormatty at all, basically told him that I wouldn't put my needs secondary to his...but then when he wheedled and pleaded, I caved (and exactly what I said happened a year down the line). Doormat.

 

In your example, did you just hang about waiting on her to make the decision, hoping that she'd decide that yes, she did want to be with you? (Therefore she knew where she had you, in the palm of her hand. She has all the power.) That is somewhat doormatty - which is a shame, it shouldn't be doormatty, it should be just treating someone with respect and politeness and kindness..but I think it gets translated into 'I have all the power here' by the girl in this instance.

 

Or, while she was humming and haawing, did you go out there and seek other women who would be sure whether they wanted you or not? That is less doormatty, meaning you are not the kind of guy to hang around waiting desperately for some girl to decide whether she likes you or not. This option is less doormatty.

 

D-jam, you're right. Think I'm having a hard time that life is not fair. I mean it's obvious it's not fair when you look at say the disaster in Haiti, but on a personal level with interpersonal relationships for some reason I always expect my good behaviour to be reflected back to me and someone else's bad behaviour to bounce back on them. It's just getting the concept that life doesn't work this way into my head that's going to be hard. I think it's ingrained at this stage.

[meerkat stew]

I don't believe in dating karma. I've seen people use and abuse and still come out ahead in life.

 

People should reread TMaiden's posts about karma, it's not that the bad actions accumulate and result in some external penalty that people can point to and say "See that's karma in action!", but rather that the actions degrade someone's soul internally to the point that moving towards enlightenment is hindered or even prevented due to the nature of the actions perpetuating illusions of egoism and ideation. The only consequence of bad karma is hindered enlightenment, not any external, tangible consequence. Earl did us a disservice in understanding the concept karma, I'm afraid.

 

If you go with the reincarnation beliefs, it's why someone could be reborn as a pig or an ant, they have degraded the enlightened possibility of their soul to such an extent that the base animal soul is all that's left to be reborn.

[paddington bear]

People should reread TMaiden's posts about karma, it's not that the bad actions accumulate and result in some external penalty that people can point to and say "See that's karma in action!", but rather that the actions degrade someone's soul internally to the point that moving towards enlightenment is hindered or even prevented due to the nature of the actions perpetuating illusions of egoism and ideation. The only consequence of bad karma is hindered enlightenment, not any external, tangible consequence. Earl did us a disservice in understanding the concept karma, I'm afraid.

 

If you go with the reincarnation beliefs, it's why someone could be reborn as a pig or an ant, they have degraded the enlightened possibility of their soul to such an extent that the base animal soul is all that's left to be reborn.

 

Maybe that's why I came back as a stuffed bear....

 

aside from that, Meerket, that was a very succinctly put definition of what the correctly defined version of karma is. And also makes me realise that part of wanting people who've screwed you over to get their comeuppance is to do with focusing on what other people are doing instead of worrying about yourself and your own path in life.

[meerkat stew]

Maybe that's why I came back as a stuffed bear....

 

 

Haha good one . Maybe don't eat so many marmalade sandwiches this go-round and you will get back on track.

[sumdude]

Maybe that's why I came back as a stuffed bear....

 

aside from that, Meerket, that was a very succinctly put definition of what the correctly defined version of karma is. And also makes me realise that part of wanting people who've screwed you over to get their comeuppance is to do with focusing on what other people are doing instead of worrying about yourself and your own path in life.

 

Or even better.. NOT worrying. One thing I have learned is that sometimes what we worry about most we can make happen if even just subconsciously. The mind is a tricky place.

[silverplanets]

The other day I read a book, a true story. Main character had been running around with many many women for years. Just moving on to the next one. Suddenly he meets one who is different, even the sex was different.. there was love and connection. Reading it I remembered what is was life the first few years with my wife. I remembered just how much I loved her. It affected me deeply, I broke down for a bit. Yeah, real men cry sometimes.

 

Then I realized the truth I needed to see even beyond the forgiveness. She deserved to be happy, content and at peace. If I had ever loved her I should wish this for her. The same realization was that I too deserved those same things. It wasn't just at the rational level, I felt these things.

 

 

sumdude - I love your post. Sometimes loving someone involves realising that you are not what they need (even if you think you are).

 

Sometimes our own hurt prevents us from truly supporting one we love to do what is right for them.

 

I am genuinly pleased for you.

 

On the subject of the OP, I don't believe in karma as revenge. I believe we all have a choice, every second of the day, in what type of seeds we plant - do we plant happiness, positivity, support for others, understanding and, perhaps the hardest, genuine compassion for people as people. Or do we plant other things.

[paddington bear]

Or even better.. NOT worrying. One thing I have learned is that sometimes what we worry about most we can make happen if even just subconsciously. The mind is a tricky place.

 

This is so true and I'm not sure how it happens, on some levels (mostly on the negative in my case) I have drawn exactly what I don't want onto me because I've thought about what I don't want too much.

 

I left my last home because of neighbour problems, and now, I thought, phew at least I'm away from the crazy neighbours and now the guy upstairs is behaving really strangely. It's like the crazy neighbourdom followed me.

 

Or how I said over and over that I was not ever, ever, ever again going to get into an unrequited love situation again. That's what I got. Again.

 

Or how I always worry about money and not having any of the stuff, and end up with less and less. And every time when I'm at my most broke, some stroke of bad luck happens that means a large chunk of the little money I have is taken away.

 

I've tried to make it work the opposite way - i.e. the positives, but it hasn't seemed to work, so I must be doing something wrong

[TaraMaiden]

Karma is a nice idea but has no meaningful purpose.

 

Definition of Karma: 'In the Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain religions, a person's action (bad or good) that determines his or her destiny.'

 

This is NOT what Buddhists think of Karma.

Hindus maybe, Jain, possibly, but I'm sorry - definitely not Buddhist.

You are much mistaken.

 

Karma is simply the idea that everything we do has a consequence and we can't escape that. It never says anything about bad actions will result in bad consequences, or vice-versa. That's just a romanticized view that people wish was how the world worked.

 

Karma doesn't suggest that a girl who teases guys and plays with them will get what's coming to her. It just says that her actions will determine her destiny...in this case it's likely the girl will end up with the man of her dreams because she has become a master manipulator of other people. Her next life...well if Karma is true then her next life might not be so blessed.

Well put. But it doesn't necessarily wait until the 'next life'. But it might.....