sagetalk Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 This could go the other way too. As harmful said, it's a double standard. To some people sex is a part of love. Having a sexual bond. Sex is a part of being intimate. Wanting to feel desired in every which way. It's quite a beautiful thing. Yes, sex is wonderful when it's between two people who want to be with each other and want to do it. But when it is forced by guilt or pressuring, it is a hideous beast.
sagetalk Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 What if I want her, but am not yet ready for that? Then more than likely you will be her very best friend in the friends zone, because you're nice and shy and a really great guy, congratulations .
Bejita463 Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Then more than likely you will be her very best friend in the friends zone, because you're nice and shy and a really great guy, congratulations . Perhaps she'll be MY best friend in the friend zone then if the circumstances are reversed, when I am ready and she is not. Funny how that can work both ways.
hoping2heal Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Women who use sex for control are pond scum. They have sex with a guy, then take it away whenever they feel like it. They are awful. Those women are not what I'm talking about. Those are not the women I am talking about either. There are women who don't "have sex" as a power trip. It has nothing to do with them not being "ready". That is why I get itchy when I see the kind of arguments you are making. They have their place of validity among women who have expressed immediately before getting into a relationship that they will wait until a certain point before having sex.I think that is perfectly fine because it is honest and fair; you are letting someone know the deal before they grow an emotional attatchment to you. That said, not having sex because it is your moral values to wait until a certain hallmark in the relationship and not having sex because you have mental and emotional issues with the subject of sex are two highly different things. A person may be perfectly fine waiting until a certain point to have sex, and then realise they didn't have sex earlier because their partner has a history of sexually related trauma; this requires a different set of atitudes that may or may not be present simply because that man chose to wait.
dreamergrl Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Then more than likely you will be her very best friend in the friends zone, because you're nice and shy and a really great guy, congratulations . So now it's okay for the girl to want to wait, but not the guy?
Johnny M Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Mutual respect means, if she doesn't want it yet and you do, back off. If a women expects you to make a move and become sexual with her early on, then you better do it if you want her. But if she wants to wait, then you should also wait or find another girl. It's not complicated. First of all, as dreamer girl correctly pointed out, there is nothing mutual in your definition of 'mutual respect'. In fact, you are suggesting that respect is a one way street. Second, I'll let you in on a little secret. Most women do not have a predetermined 'wait period'. They may have sex after two months in one relationship and then have sex on the second date in another. It's all variable. Women are greatly concerned with being perceived as too easy or slutty because of the sense of guilt imposed on them by society. But that doesn't change the fact that every woman wants to be seduced. Basically, in order to have sex you need to seduce a woman without making her feel dirty or slutty. What you can't do, however, is apply the hands off, differential approach that you are suggesting. That is just a recipe for failure (been there, done that). In the absence of sexual tension, any physical chemistry that may have existed between the two of you quickly disappears.
PinkToes Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Its gotten to the point where im scared to date because of what the guy will think of me not having sex..... This is significant, IMO. Way beyond whether someone should be expected to wait for the other person to get on the same page. Having sex because someone might think less of you if you don't is the worst possible reason. Men & women both, BTW.
Author Jasmine444 Posted January 18, 2010 Author Posted January 18, 2010 Hey guys well to answer most of the questions ive been asked: Number 1: No i dont think "No sex" will answer ALL of my emotional issues within a relationship, But based off the FACT that most of my relationships started out with sex too soon i believe it will definately help me know if this guy REALLY, REALLY wants to get to know me for who i am, or does he just want to screw me because im so pretty. Number 2: Do i feel like "No sex" is a form of a weapon to use against a man? Definately NOT. As a grown woman its MY choice if i want to go there or not. It has nothing to do with the man per say its a matter of loving, and respecting myself fully and totally and not looking for validation from a man..Which i have done in about 85 to 90 percent of my relationships in the past... It was all about pleasing him. And in turn ive been heartbroken and left and its not a good feeling when you HOPED it would grow further.. All im saying is to me Celibacy is a way of healing my emotional past with men... Regaining my strentgh and love for myself and realizing im more than just a pretty face with a nice ass and pretty skin....Im sooooo much more than that and i would like a man to see that potential in me WITHOUT the sex makes it less complicated.
dreamergrl Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 All im saying is to me Celibacy is a way of healing my emotional past with men... Regaining my strentgh and love for myself and realizing im more than just a pretty face with a nice ass and pretty skin....Im sooooo much more than that and i would like a man to see that potential in me WITHOUT the sex makes it less complicated. Perhaps while your healing, staying single would be of some help. If you can't see the potential in yourself and realize how great you are without a guy, then you should take the time to find that in you.
Sharla Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Second, I'll let you in on a little secret. Most women do not have a predetermined 'wait period'. They may have sex after two months in one relationship and then have sex on the second date in another. It's all variable. This is 100% correct.
sugar_and_spice Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Some men will be willing to wait. But from your posts it sounds like you need to be single for a while to recover from what happened in the past .
boogieboy Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 I just wanted to know everyones feelings about celibacy. Im 26 years old ive had alot of intimate relationships but they never go anywhere besides the sexual aspect.. Ive been hurt alot. Its gotten to the point where im scared to date because of what the guy will think of me not having sex.....I know everyone has their own reasons for being Abstient/celibate but mine is basically for mental and emotional reasons. I would consider myself a very sexy and mysterious woman but i also think being sexy and attractive can be a gift and a curse because i think very attractive women tend to have harder times maintaining a relationship...All i want is to be able to build a solid foundation of friendship with a guy first without the sexual aspect..what do you guys think:o Your problem is because of the men you choose to date. Celibacy wont help you with guys you choose that dont take you seriously. Your not going to have any relationships that last (sex or not) until you learn how to discern guys with better character. Your standards have to change otherwise you will continue to get stuck in bad relationships.
Satisfaction Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 However, if I outright refused to return verbal affection it would make you unhappy I'd wager. How is physical affection different, if that is your way? It doesn't entitle you to sex, but rejection still hurts. I think you are looking at this in the wrong way. You are limiting yourself by relying only on physical affection! You have to understand that most women are really sensitive to touch and sometimes if you are still getting to know someone you want to keep your mind clear and not just run on sexual chemistry! Because when that dies down you still need to have a relationship. That said i'm a very touchy feely person and I probably would not be able to be with someone who wasn't. I'm just saying you should give people a chance to get to know you a bit before you go pawing them and if you see they don't like it, probably best that you let it go and let them be instead of just frustrating each other!
Bejita463 Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 I think you are looking at this in the wrong way. You are limiting yourself by relying only on physical affection! I don't think I am seeing it the way you think I am. The way I see it is that you need to understand how to "speak" to your partner in the way they most appreciate. If you can simply reject a form of affection outright, you are not compatible with that kind of person. At the same time, that does not make either party "wrong." You have to understand that most women are really sensitive to touch and sometimes if you are still getting to know someone you want to keep your mind clear and not just run on sexual chemistry! Because when that dies down you still need to have a relationship. It isn't about sexual chemistry. Perhaps a small gesture of affection (a gift) makes you feel warm and fuzzy, maybe it is a well placed word that does it, or maybe a small acts of service are what you most appreciate. Touch is what does it for me, and I did go out of my way to point out I was not referring specifically to sex. A person who cares about me going out of their way to lay a hand on my shoulder as they pass, or other such small gestures make me melt. It is not the end-all be-all, but it is not unimportant. I'm just saying you should give people a chance to get to know you a bit before you go pawing them and if you see they don't like it, probably best that you let it go and let them be instead of just frustrating each other! That is constant with any possible form of affection. You can't just charge ahead with any of them. They all take time, yes?
Satisfaction Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Second, I'll let you in on a little secret. Most women do not have a predetermined 'wait period'. They may have sex after two months in one relationship and then have sex on the second date in another. It's all variable. Women are greatly concerned with being perceived as too easy or slutty because of the sense of guilt imposed on them by society. But that doesn't change the fact that every woman wants to be seduced. Basically, in order to have sex you need to seduce a woman without making her feel dirty or slutty. What you can't do, however, is apply the hands off, differential approach that you are suggesting. That is just a recipe for failure (been there, done that). In the absence of sexual tension, any physical chemistry that may have existed between the two of you quickly disappears. What? Where did you get this from? Actually having sex with a stranger or some one you barely know is a turn on for alot of women and alot of women would like to try it. But they are certainly not wanting every sexual encounter to be like that. If more guys took the time to learn how to make love/have sex properly then they wouldn't believe that acting out a fantasy was what women wanted sexually, all the time.
Satisfaction Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 What if I want her, but am not yet ready for that? then she should wait. I heard of a few guys who made their girlfriends wait 6 months before they had sex. True the girlfriends got upset and frustrated. An ex made me wait a year, in fact. And we went and took those horrible tests in the GUM clinics, twice. The second time was my fault because I got mad one day and pointed out that you can get std's from oral sex. Turns out he thought i was too attractive to be faithful to him! Turns out that boy was a right psycho so perhaps i shouldn't have been so patient.
sagetalk Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 So now it's okay for the girl to want to wait, but not the guy? He presented a scenario and I responded to that specific scenario. If a girl wants to have sex early in the relationship and the guy doesn't make a move she will friend zone him. Whether it is fair or not, or whether it is what I think is right or not doesn't matter. That's how it works. Without becoming sexual with her she will feel that: he doesn't like her, he's too shy, too nice, too passive, or whatever excuse you can think that may or may not be true. The fact is, they just aren't compatible and they should break up. Same as the scenario I described before. If a girl does not want to have sex, maybe even until marriage, and the guy does, then they should break up because they are not compatible. It's a train wreck waiting to happen. With most guys it is not a cut and dry "he puts her in the friends zone". Most guys will try to have sex with her anyway, even when she says she wants to wait. That is why I called them scumbags, because they do not honor a very sacred and precious thing which should always be a passionate and mutual desire.
sagetalk Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 then she should wait. An ex made me wait a year, in fact. And we went and took those horrible tests in the GUM clinics, twice. The second time was my fault because I got mad one day and pointed out that you can get std's from oral sex. Turns out he thought i was too attractive to be faithful to him! Turns out that boy was a right psycho so perhaps i shouldn't have been so patient. If you're going that far sexually, then that's not really waiting. But I suppose that's splitting hairs. And yes, I would say when you realized you wanted sexual intimacy and he didn't that was a great sign to leave then. Avoiding train wrecks are an important way to keep you sane in crazy world.
sagetalk Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 However, celibate men are a rare breed, you need to go to descent places like church, libraries to find them. Do not give up, his out there somewhere. I wish there were an applause smiley face. Bravo, bravo!
dreamergrl Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 If you're going that far sexually, then that's not really waiting. But I suppose that's splitting hairs. And yes, I would say when you realized you wanted sexual intimacy and he didn't that was a great sign to leave then. Avoiding train wrecks are an important way to keep you sane in crazy world. What you're saying is if a girl wants to wait, then the guy should respect that. If the guy wants to wait, then the girl should dump him. Yup... that almost makes sense.
make me believe Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Honestly if I started dating a guy and he informed me he was in a period of self-imposed celibacy, I'd probably run the other way. It just screams of too many issues to me. Waiting until you're in a committed relationship is cool, but I wouldn't be willing to wait more than a few months (and definitely not until marriage) for anyone. I don't think that makes me a bad person. The sexual part of a relationship is important. It brings the relationship to a new level of intimacy not found in friendships etc, and I wouldn't want to waste months & months of time with somebody and then find out that we're incompatible in bed. If you're having a problem with guys not respecting you after you sleep with them, that says more about the quality of men you're dating than anything else. If you have issues with sex in general, work on fixing that before you start dating again. I don't think it's healthy to date if you have sexual/emotional issues to work on with yourself.
sagetalk Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 What you're saying is if a girl wants to wait, then the guy should respect that. If the guy wants to wait, then the girl should dump him. Yup... that almost makes sense. I'm not understanding the bad attitude towards me in your posts . I have said it before, that is what happens, not what I want to happen. Go back and read some posts from just a few weeks ago for proof. It's not that they should do this, it's that most of them will. If a girl has options (lots of other guys chasing her) and if she wants have sex/get physical and he doesn't make a move, it is almost certain she will kick him to the friends zone. That's her choice, I think it's lame, but it's her life. A guy dating a girl that pressures her or uses guilt when she does not want to have sex yet in a relationship is a scumbag. What is so unbelievably unfair about that statement?
mem11363 Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 When I met my future wife - I decided to go slow. I started sleeping over after date 2 - but we just kissed - for 2 months. Finally I could tell she was angry - and running out of patience - so I let her have her way with me. To be fair we both had about the same number of partners at that point. And I had not been so patient with anyone else. And I didn't feel forced - I simply realized she wasn't going to wait any longer. I would however not have waited until marriage. Sorry but compatibility is a big deal and I have mated with lots of women I could never have been happy with nor made them happy. I'm not understanding the bad attitude towards me in your posts . I have said it before, that is what happens, not what I want to happen. Go back and read some posts from just a few weeks ago for proof. It's not that they should do this, it's that most of them will. If a girl has options (lots of other guys chasing her) and if she wants have sex/get physical and he doesn't make a move, it is almost certain she will kick him to the friends zone. That's her choice, I think it's lame, but it's her life. A guy dating a girl that pressures her or uses guilt when she does not want to have sex yet in a relationship is a scumbag. What is so unbelievably unfair about that statement?
Satisfaction Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 I don't think I am seeing it the way you think I am. The way I see it is that you need to understand how to "speak" to your partner in the way they most appreciate. If you can simply reject a form of affection outright, you are not compatible with that kind of person. At the same time, that does not make either party "wrong." A person who cares about me going out of their way to lay a hand on my shoulder as they pass, or other such small gestures make me melt. It is not the end-all be-all, but it is not unimportant. That is constant with any possible form of affection. You can't just charge ahead with any of them. They all take time, yes? Ok, I understand that you need to speak to a person in a way they most understand and I think this is what people mean when they change for the person they love. As opposed to the really dysfunctional things that people do. Its hard when someone won't make that adjustment or you. Heartbreaking. I just used to tolerate that kind of stuff before but it hurts more being in a relationship knowing that someone refuses to see even the tiny things that you need in your life. I'm quite touchy feely myself but if I want cuddles I go and hang on to my boy, or friends or whoever, like a koala bear I target the big cuddly guys in the building where i work so I can get bear hugs from them!! I suppose it more acceptable for a girl to be like that than for a guy. I guess the question is can someone really love me but out bother about the little things? I don't know to be honest? I think you should check all these hings before you make plans to commit...
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