The rudest, most demanding people seem to have successful relationships...

[SadandConfusedWA]

Bravo paddington, I 100% agree with everything you just said. The problem is, even if I could make myself treat men like piece of c$%^, I can not respect those men. And if their wife or gf is nice 10-20% of the time and nasty otherwise, men will describe her as "once you get to know her well, she is truly a nice person"

 

The kinder, nicer and gentler you are to a man (and no, I am not talking about being a doormat), just wanting a man to feel loved and appreciated, the faster he will look for a biatch to replace you with. It's bizzare.

 

 

 

I agree with this thread 100%. I've noticed this too over and over. For all the 'I'm a nice guy threads' I've seen among my contemporaries that 'nice men' go for demanding, nasty women while all claiming they want something other than that. Or you hear what a lovely sweet understanding wife they have...and then you meet the wife and realise the guy is totally blinkered to what a nasty piece of work she is.

 

I've heard so many times 'oh I've got to go, you know, the old ball and chain at home' but with a grin - as in 'I love being totally pussy-whipped and having my life controlled by my other half'. They love it. They say they don't, but they love being treated like crap, makes them feel loved, gives them attention, gives them a purpose, something to work for (fulfilling the endless whining demands) in order to feel like a man.

 

To me there are the categories: nice guy/nice girl doormat - no one respects that level of low self-esteem 'I will do anything for you, put up with any kind of shoddy treatment and come back for more' attitude.

 

Then there is what you mentioned, the middle ground, reasonable people - who according to you (and me) are ignored in favour of unreasonable drama queens who wield a metaphorical whip.

 

Then there is the downright demanding, not so very nice people. And you are right, despite what men say about wanting a caring partner, from personal observation, men want to be treated like a piece of crap, want to be told what to do, when to come home, how late they can stay out, which friends they can hang out with and for how long and on and on. They complain about it, but on some level maybe it makes them feel loved or noticed or needed in some way.

 

I don't get it. Unless these men have such low self-esteem that they don't get that when someone simply loves them as they are, that that is enough, they need to be reminded that they are not good enough and be sent off to fulfill tasks to feel manly and confident...whereas if they had that confidence in the first place they wouldn't be with a demanding woman.

 

Have you noticed as well the type of men with these women? Nice, decent, sensitive, intelligent, caring guys - all being bossed around terribly by their female half.

 

And you are right, a quick review of my friends in LTR's or married are like this and my other 'sweeter more understanding' female friends are left on the shelf. (also agree re the Men Marry Bitches book, that was to do with self-esteem, whereas what you and I are talking about is women being downright rude and overly-demanding...yet still having a LTR). Isn't there something wrong here?

 

Now...this could be that these type of women are go-getters, will step over anyone to get what they want i.e. a man, and so therefore end up in an LTR whereas 'nicer' girls wouldn't resort to that type of behaviour and so get nothing, so it may not be that they are more desireable, just that they will stoop at nothing to get what they want (men typically never see or notice the bitchy comments and back-stabbing behaviour used by these women, so go on oblivious).

 

I have pondered your question about becoming a complete b**ch in order to get that longed-for loving LTR...but honestly, I couldn't respect a partner who would allow me to treat them like that and nor can I change my personality over night...and nor do I want to. Would be nice to find someone who was relieved and happy to find someone who cared and respected him, without resorting to turning into some kind of second, nagging mother-figure.

[Woggle]

This thread sounds just like those nice guy threads but with the genders reversed.

[SadandConfusedWA]

Oh and you are right about "Oh I have to go, the missus is calling" with the grin on their face (even though the missus has just interrupted important business meeting for the third time). I also feel like a man's need to be dominated and bossed around is even stronger than their need for a good looking partner (as much as they like looks and all). I know quite a few of my friends that are very pretty and single, yet none of the nasty, demanding ones are (even if they are obese).

[sagetalk]

I would think that the women men select for marriage tend to be the ones who will do best by their children. Help them have the best chance of succeeding in life.

 

If only that were true. From just reading threads here alone you will quickly realize it most certainly is not. Unless of course you consider "how he makes me feel" to have anything to do with children .

[SadandConfusedWA]

This thread sounds just like those nice guy threads but with the genders reversed.

 

Hey woogle, I fully agree with you here, I just had the same thought.

[Boundary Problem]

This whole thing is truly disconcerting

 

 

Not really. There are lots of miserable marriages out there.

 

 

Nothing wrong with being sweet and single.

 

 

Not everyone needs a warm body beside them to feel complete.

[Lovelybird]

I know men that go for women like this and their attitude is to go with the devil you know. Most women deep down are mean and heartless towards men so many men don't trust a woman that is too nice. My advice is to be more like The Dragon that the other poster describes.

:laugh:........

[paddington bear]

Bravo paddington, I 100% agree with everything you just said. The problem is, even if I could make myself treat men like piece of c$%^, I can not respect those men. And if their wife or gf is nice 10-20% of the time and nasty otherwise, men will describe her as "once you get to know her well, she is truly a nice person"

 

The kinder, nicer and gentler you are to a man (and no, I am not talking about being a doormat), just wanting a man to feel loved and appreciated, the faster he will look for a biatch to replace you with. It's bizzare.

 

Sentences in bold. So true. And I also agree that this is very like the 'nice guy' threads. So are we all coming to the conclusion that both men and women want to be dominated and bossed around by their other half? And that men and women who are less demanding are seen as boring and undesirable?

 

And since this thread is about 'nice girls' if you like. What is the answer? Become a nasty biatch? Pretend to be a nasty biatch and keep that pretense going to keep the guy interested? Give up?

 

I genuinely believe that some men confuse 'being a total b**ch' with being 'assertive'. They simply can't see the difference, think they are being with a strong, assertive woman, but are really with a drama-queen, control freak.

 

My problem is...not the assertive women, I have good friends who know what they want, stand up for themselves but are not controlling and bullying with it and are kind and sweet, it is the other nasty pieces of work that anger me.

 

I have so little respect for that kind of abhorrent behaviour and it makes me angry when I think 'is this what I'm supposed to be like to 'get a man'? That is what I have to become??? I would rather chew my own arm off than to behave in that way towards another human being who I claim to love. It is simply wrong, that's all, wrong, disrespectful and nasty and I hate seeing men allowing themselves to be treated that way, it makes me cringe on their behalf.

[Taramere]

If only that were true. From just reading threads here alone you will quickly realize it most certainly is not. Unless of course you consider "how he makes me feel" to have anything to do with children .

 

I don't quite understand. I don't tend to think men select women based on how they make the woman feel. I think they select partners based on how they themselves feel. Or was it a typo where you meant to say "how she makes me feel"?

 

In which case, I suppose I would agree...ie that men are as prone as women are to applying their emotions in making relationship decisions. Which is natural, given the strong emotional component to relationships. On the other hand, some people are more emotionally intelligent than others. A might select a partner on the basis that they regularly humiliate them/make them feel bad....because those are feelings they're familiar with. Although they might be unhappy with that partner, they'll feel at home with them. Hence going for "bitches" or "bastards". B might apply a bit more logic in figuring out whether the other person is liable to make them happy and be a good bet in the long term.

 

My real issue is with what I perceive as some notion that anyone who is fairly strong and outspoken/demanding is automatically a horrible person. I know people like that who are very good people, and in whom I have a great deal of trust. I think the "assertive = horrible" assumption is one that shy people who lack confidence can cripple themselves with if they're not careful. Either trying to ape what they perceive as bad behaviour and coming across very badly as a result....or retreating further for fear of being like that "horrible person". It doesn't do them much good in the end.

[paddington bear]

I don't tend to think men select women based on how they make the woman feel. I think they select partners based on how they themselves feel.

 

A might select a partner on the basis that they regularly humiliate them/make them feel bad....because those are feelings they're familiar with. Although they might be unhappy with that partner, they'll feel at home with them. Hence going for "bitches" or "bastards". B might apply a bit more logic in figuring out whether the other person is liable to make them happy and be a good bet in the long term.

 

I think men select women on both how they make women feel and what they are familiar with.

 

There is a strong component in a lot of men where they feel of worth if they can make a woman happy. Women who are not easily pleased and who will make constant demands will then always give these men that lovely sense of achievement of 'making her happy'. A delicious cycle where they constantly get to achieve something i.e. pleasing their woman. If she's too easily please there is no challenge and he feels like he's not or can't make her happy and thus get the constant fix of feeling like a success as a man within the partnership (this is my theory anyway)

 

I agree totally with how guys (and women too) pick a partner on what they're familiar with (good and bad). You've put it very well, although they might not be happy, it is what they are used to: 'better the devil you know'.

[SadandConfusedWA]

In my observations, those men who adore biatches usually had a mother that was cold and distant, yet bossy and demanding. They are attracted to that dynamic because that is all they know and people always prefer known to the unknown.

[Taramere]

I think men select women on both how they make women feel and what they are familiar with.

 

There is a strong component in a lot of men where they feel of worth if they can make a woman happy. Women who are not easily pleased and who will make constant demands will then always give these men that lovely sense of achievement of 'making her happy'. A delicious cycle where they constantly get to achieve something i.e. pleasing their woman. If she's too easily please there is no challenge and he feels like he's not or can't make her happy and thus get the constant fix of feeling like a success as a man within the partnership (this is my theory anyway)

 

Aha -yes. Put like that, I get it....and I think it's an understandable thing. For me too, compliments mean more when they come from people who don't give them out at the drop of a hat. Too much gushing over something that's taken very little effort on my part, and I can feel that I'm being patronised or that the person doesn't have very high expectations for me. No appreciation when you have put a lot of effort into something, and you can be left wondering what went wrong.

 

It's a bit like an exam...when you pass one with distinction after putting next to no effort into it, but barely scrape a pass in another where you really pulled out the stops. I think most of us probably prefer appreciation that's commensurate with the degree of effort we've put into something - and how well WE think we've done. People who are demanding and impose high standards, who are also capable of demonstrating genuine appreciation when those high standards are met, are probably the most effective at getting the best out of others.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Taramere

[harmfulsweetz]

To say you know that they are out-and out rude is rather presumptious based on an overheard phone call etc. I think many people can be rude and demanding, actually I think everyone can be.

 

Men like women to know what they want, to stand up for it, and assert themselves. There's obviously something else about these women that makes the guy stick around and marry them, we, as outsiders, only see one dimension.

 

It's the same arguement as men being nice guys who can't get dates. Of course, it's because all the women are chasing all the 'bad boys' right? Well, all the men aren't chasing all of these sorts of women either.

[Woggle]

Be honest ladies there is not at least a part of you that admires women like The Dragon described by SadandConfusedWA for being so strong and independent?

[paddington bear]

To say you know that they are out-and out rude is rather presumptious based on an overheard phone call etc. I think many people can be rude and demanding, actually I think everyone can be.

 

Men like women to know what they want, to stand up for it, and assert themselves. There's obviously something else about these women that makes the guy stick around and marry them, we, as outsiders, only see one dimension.

 

It's the same arguement as men being nice guys who can't get dates. Of course, it's because all the women are chasing all the 'bad boys' right? Well, all the men aren't chasing all of these sorts of women either.

 

I disagree, I've noticed this not from casually overhead phonecalls, but from being in couples company over long, extended periods of time. Of course all have our off days, but some people are not rude and demanding on a day-to-day consistent basis. I'm talking about those who are, women who wield a metaphorical whip and use it on their other halves.

 

Again, I reiterate, strong, assertive independent woman is one thing, being a whingey, nagging, drama queen who treats her man like dirt is another - I can understand why men want someone confident and who isn't a doormat, not men who are in LTR's with rude and demanding women, it's too different things. And while a lot of men here complain about the princesses and drama queens and how they hate it, in the real world, from my observations, this is what they go running back to time and time again - it is, no doubt as you say the same 'nice guy' argument reversed.

 

You rightly say "There's obviously something else about these women that makes the guy stick around and marry them, we, as outsiders, only see one dimension." - I guess no one truly knows or understands what goes on within a relationship. But it is interesting to note patterns don't you think? And ponder on why those patterns might exist and see if that knowledge can help you personally in your dating life.

 

Wouldn't it be interesting to lock all the self-proclaimed nice guys and nice girls into a house together and see:

 

a) if they were really so 'nice' or not. If they were really doormats and so on

 

b) if either side were attracted to one another. (This should not happen going by the theory that the men want only domineering women or women only want bad boys)

 

c) would another power dynamic start to come into play and some of the nice guys/girls slowly become more assertive when faced with competition and thus shed their 'nice' image?

[SadandConfusedWA]

I also am not speaking about one overheard phone call. I am speaking about knowing a couple for a long period of time. I am speaking about women who other men and women consider rude and demanding too.

 

 

The most annoying thing is when pu$$y whipped men say something like "strong woman needs a strong man" implying that they are "strong". Dude, you are anything but strong.

 

Some men do eventually get tired of this treatment (from my experience). There is an example of this is the movie "Hangover" when a guy dumps his controling, domineering girlfriend at the end.

 

I also do think that on some level, these men are miserable (as are girsl who date bad boys). They might enjoy being miserable but life with such a woman does take its toll. My brother ended up dumping his domineering, super demanding girlfriend after 4 years of living together.

[sagetalk]

I don't quite understand. I don't tend to think men select women based on how they make the woman feel. I think they select partners based on how they themselves feel. Or was it a typo where you meant to say "how she makes me feel"?

 

Yeah he/she, works both ways .

[harmfulsweetz]

I disagree, I've noticed this not from casually overhead phonecalls, but from being in couples company over long, extended periods of time. Of course all have our off days, but some people are not rude and demanding on a day-to-day consistent basis. I'm talking about those who are, women who wield a metaphorical whip and use it on their other halves.

 

Again, I reiterate, strong, assertive independent woman is one thing, being a whingey, nagging, drama queen who treats her man like dirt is another - I can understand why men want someone confident and who isn't a doormat, not men who are in LTR's with rude and demanding women, it's too different things. And while a lot of men here complain about the princesses and drama queens and how they hate it, in the real world, from my observations, this is what they go running back to time and time again - it is, no doubt as you say the same 'nice guy' argument reversed.

 

You rightly say "There's obviously something else about these women that makes the guy stick around and marry them, we, as outsiders, only see one dimension." - I guess no one truly knows or understands what goes on within a relationship. But it is interesting to note patterns don't you think? And ponder on why those patterns might exist and see if that knowledge can help you personally in your dating life.

 

Wouldn't it be interesting to lock all the self-proclaimed nice guys and nice girls into a house together and see:

 

a) if they were really so 'nice' or not. If they were really doormats and so on

 

b) if either side were attracted to one another. (This should not happen going by the theory that the men want only domineering women or women only want bad boys)

 

c) would another power dynamic start to come into play and some of the nice guys/girls slowly become more assertive when faced with competition and thus shed their 'nice' image?

 

 

I see that. But at the same time, you still only catch a glimpse, not the whole picture, because that's why you're called an outsider. You'll always be on the outside of things.

 

I hate demanding, rude people myself, only when they are demanding and rude to me and people I care about though. Sure, if I see someone yelling at someone over the phone, I may think 'god what the..." but heh.

 

I think the problem with the self-proclaimed nice guys/girls is that along with b*tch/jerk theories, they are on opposite ends of an extreme spectrum. I'd much rather someone who was in the middle. See, mostly, I'm nice, but I have a dominating side to me, not rude, not necessarily demanding per se, but if I want something, I'm going to get it. Perhaps not in the I'll trample on anyone's toes to get it way. There has to be some balance, like you're nice but not too nice to let people walk all over you. You dominate but not to the point of hurting someone, being rude etc.

[sally4sara]

Be honest ladies there is not at least a part of you that admires women like The Dragon described by SadandConfusedWA for being so strong and independent?

 

Constantly making demands on someone proves you are dependent on them. If you were independent, you could meet your own demands rather than expect someone else to do it for you. To perceive a woman (or anyone like that) to be strong or independent is to base all your perceptions on the exact opposite of what their actions indicate. That would be completely irrational.

 

 

But then, you are.......

[Woggle]

I am shocked to see how many women here are actually appalled by this behavior. I would think that most women would be high-fiving them and saying you go girl for putting men in their place but this thread has pleasantly surprised me.

 

I don't know why men gravitate towards these women but I think that feminism has instilled such self hatred in men that they think they deserve it. Feminism has made us feel guilty for wanting a woman that actually treats us well. If we want that we are accused of wanting a stepford wife or a doormat that we can walk all over when really all we want is a happy and healthy relationship with a woman that wants the same but we can't say it because then we are afraid of strong and independent women.

[SadandConfusedWA]

Constantly making demands on someone proves you are dependent on them. If you were independent, you could meet your own demands rather than expect someone else to do it for you. To perceive a woman (or anyone like that) to be strong or independent is to base all your perceptions on the exact opposite of what their actions indicate. That would be completely irrational.

 

 

But then, you are.......

 

An independent woman doesn't need to call someone multiple times during work meetings. In one of my examples, this guy was meeting a demanding and rude gf for lunch. He was literally 2 minutes late and she already called him yelling and wanting to know where he is and why he is "late". I don't see that as independent at all.

[4givrnt4gtr]

Yup i definitely am not talking about one phone call, or even one person.

I lived with my sister for 10 years, who is a total, B*itch and her husband and to this that I dont understand how he put up with her insanely controlling, demanding attitude. Granted, once the door to their room was closed, I didnt know what was going on, but I did see that the more bitchy she would get, the more he seemed to adored her.

It wasnt until she attempted to calm down and stop being so feisty that he cheated on her and left her.

 

SOmeone asked if we dont envy these women...honestly, the whole thing just boggles my mind. I cringe at the thought of yelling at my boyfriend/husband because he lost a receipt. i guess because if my boyfriend/husband yells at me I would bounce right out of the relationship so I imagine they would do the same....but i guess im wrong about that.

 

I think what Ive come to the conclusion is the old "treat other as you'd like to be treated" turned out to not be necesarily true when it comes to relationships. I think whats more real is the treat others how THEY would like to be treated....

 

Now....Im gonna have to add one more thing to that, because honestly I dont think I can stomach being a b*itch...so Ill pay attention to the whole how they want to be treated BUT i will also make sure is not too far off from how I WANT to treat my SO....

[paddington bear]

I think what Ive come to the conclusion is the old "treat other as you'd like to be treated" turned out to not be necesarily true when it comes to relationships. I think whats more real is the treat others how THEY would like to be treated....

 

Now....Im gonna have to add one more thing to that, because honestly I dont think I can stomach being a b*itch...so Ill pay attention to the whole how they want to be treated BUT i will also make sure is not too far off from how I WANT to treat my SO....

 

Well said. And very true, I'd never thought of it in that way - treat others as they want to be treated...

 

I've seen the adoring thing too after pretty degrading, rotten treatment from their OH. I'm wondering is it that:

 

'If she gets that passionate and emotional she must really love me'??

 

or is there some kind of army mentality to some men, who just blindly follow orders?

 

I know a lot of men complain that they can't read women's minds and women should clearly communicate what they're pissed at or want.

 

Maybe these women (very) clearly communicate verbally their needs or displeasure and therefore the guys feel like they know where they stand and feel that they've got some kind of open, honest relationship.

 

With the treat the man I love abruptly, rudely and with a lack of respect method, for the men there is no working out involved. It is not at all complicated:

 

'do this and I will be happy, f**k up and I will be mad and there will be consequences. No further thoughts or actions required, just follow orders and all will be okay.

[Woggle]

Men are taught to want strong and independent women so this is what we go for. I want to know why men who want women who treat them good are accused of wanting a stepford wife who is a doormat.

[paddington bear]

Men are taught to want strong and independent women so this is what we go for. I want to know why men who want women who treat them good are accused of wanting a stepford wife who is a doormat.

 

Seriously? Are men taught to want strong and independent women? Taught by whom, ma or pa? Society, television? Please elaborate. I'm genuinely curious.

 

Because in the media either the cute next door girl type is pushed as the ideal, or the uber-sexy woman, but the controlling, rude, domineering types are never held up as the ideal to go for (and again, that is something different from being strong and independent, you can be that and treat your partner with some respect at the same time).