The rudest, most demanding people seem to have successful relationships...

[threebyfate]

I have to giggle a bit over this thread. In generalizing, you also condemn your parents and all other prior generations.

[SadandConfusedWA]

Not trying to be rude, but you might want to try relying on yourself sometime, in lieu of a romantic partner. You'd be surprised at how much you can do.

 

I do rely on myself. But feeling that you are completly alone in the world is a scary thing. I am comforted to know that she is always there for me should I need her. I think that loving and nurturing women make for the best mothers.

 

I simply do not see how mean, demanding (and usually alpha carreerist biatches) make good mothers.

[SadandConfusedWA]

I have to giggle a bit over this thread. In generalizing, you also condemn your parents and all other prior generations.

 

Explain...

[ShamWoW]

But feeling that you are completly alone in the world is a scary thing.

 

Yes it is. But you need to learn to embrace it, otherwise your fear will make some bad decisions for you.

[theBrokenMuse]

I would think that the women men select for marriage tend to be the ones who will do best by their children. Help them have the best chance of succeeding in life.

Overbearing mothers have a much better chance of creating quiet, withdrawn headcases as well. No extreme is good. Doormat and bitch both can mess up their kids pretty bad just in different ways.

[SadandConfusedWA]

Overbearing mothers have a much better chance of creating quiet, withdrawn headcases as well. No extreme is good. Doormat and bitch both can mess up their kids pretty bad just in different ways.

 

 

I have met the son of woman that I refered earlier in the thread as "the dragon". He is 11 and is completly withdrawn, wide-eyed and anxious looking child, afraid to speak at all and constnatly keeps looking at his mother for approval. I simply do not see a future well adjusted individual there...

[mem11363]

SaC,

I am happy to hear your parents have a great marriage. At year 20 I feel the same way about mine.

 

No offence taken about how I project. I evaluate that (weak/strong - passive/assertive) aspect of myself based not on what I do - as that is not important to me. I evaluate it based on the amount of emotional, sexual and financial love I get from the people around me:

- My level of sexual satisfaction in marriage

- How wife treats me "out" of bed

- My individual income

- How friends/relatives/children treat me

 

In all those areas I am quite happy.

 

And for things that can be quantified I am quite satisfied with the results:

- sexual frequency

- The types of sexual acts you tend to find alpha's on the receiving end of - and beta's rarely if ever getting

- the amount I hear "I love you"

- the amount of non sexual physical affection I get from wife

- income

 

So long as I continue to get a large surplus of emotional, sexual and financial love from my environment I am happy to be perceived any which way people like.

 

Being seen as weak/passive can be helpful. It is delightful the things people share with a harmless little fuzzball. When I was consistently selling 10 million+ a year in software and consulting I had to work hard at seeming less carnivorous then I am by nature. Think of that cute little "hair twirling" thing you do just before "backing up" someones internet history onto a thumb drive. Same concept.

 

There are men who appreciate this though. The feeling of love and bonding increases when they are being treated with nothing but kindness.

 

My mother for example is completly giving, to the point of being a doormat. Dad always has his own way and is quite controling. Yet, they just celebrated 30th wedding anniversary and my dad wrote mum a card that said something along the lines of he would marry her again in a heartbeat.

 

I hope you don't take it the wrong way mem, but you strike me as someone more towards the weak/passive end of scale. Another poster (JamesM I think) is also a perfect example of this.

[SadandConfusedWA]

SaC,

 

Being seen as weak/passive can be helpful. It is delightful the things people share with a harmless little fuzzball. When I was consistently selling 10 million+ a year in software and consulting I had to work hard at seeming less carnivorous then I am by nature. Think of that cute little "hair twirling" thing you do just before "backing up" someones internet history onto a thumb drive. Same concept.

 

 

Yep, well called mister. I think that when people underestimate you, it can definetly work in your favour. The element of suprise is a beautiful thing. I myself use this concept quite a bit.

[threebyfate]

I look at the happy marriages and relationships of my family and friends, in real life. What I see prevalent in ALL these happy relationships is love, trust and respect.

 

Your environment is what you make it. You decide who you let close to you. If everyone around you is horrible, regardless of relationship, why don't you simply cut them out of your life? If you find "everyone" horrible, more likely you're solely focusing on negatives and that, within itself is emotionally unhealthy.

[SadandConfusedWA]

I will agree with that. I did a bit of self-reflection and have discovered that my negativity probably is due to the way I was brought up. My dad was always dominant and the most negative-consipiracy theory type of person that I know. Ever since I was a kid he would talk negatively about everyone we knew. If anyone was nice to us, they had a hidden agenda. When we went to visit someone's house, they would always offer us no food, or cheap food, or wrong type of drinks (all acording to him) and therefore they hate us and are horrible people. When anyone came to visit us, as soon as they are out the door dad would start to make fun of "stupid" things they said, how much they ate "to deliberatly rip us off and of course they are only freinds with us for free food :rolleyes:" and on and on it goes.

 

This is a bit off topic, but I think that's where I learned to be as negative as I am (and my brother is similar to me). Those ingrained thought processes are almost impossible to shift.

[hoping2heal]

OP, you seem to be defining a successful relationship as one where the partners stay together vs. breakup or divorce.

 

I beg to differ. I look at a successful relationship as being an environment where genuine joy, love, and trust abound. There are many people who are not happy in their relationships but cannot leave for many reasons or at least THINK they cannot leave for many reasons. Even those who are unmarried but have children may worry how they will raise their children, hold a job, or finish/start schooling without a second person to share child care responsibilities. Finances is often another big reason and these concerns are not just shared by women, but men also.

 

If the rude woman ripping her husband a new one over a reciept was that happy..then I'm guessing she'd have better things to do with her time than yell about a reciept..however it could of been a one off or there could be unknown reasons we don't know about; perhaps he cheated and they were working on building trust and not coming home with a reciept meant no way to verify his whereabouts and she snapped.

 

Who knows? Either way - staying together does not always mean happy together, and to me; a successful relationship is happy together!

[SadandConfusedWA]

Mem:

 

I have another question for you: would you say that people around you, co-workers, friends etc consider you a happy person?

[BookerT]

Discovered this thread late.

 

The reason is when you're an *******/bitch and you love someone less, you have more power and the other person is left chasing.

[Mr White]

Although I agree to an extent, I wonder how common is this behavior really?

My gf is one of those stereotypical "nice girls". Certainly not a doormat, but wouldn't cause trouble for no reason. So I really like that and I wouldn't exchange it for anything else, much less an actually mean person. In fact, even the smallest act of nagging on her side (she's just an ordinary woman, after all ), sets the clock back a bit on our relationship since this always triggers a period of extra scrutiny and suspicion on my side to try to determine whether she isn't a Dragon in sheep's clothing after all...

[bananaboat11]

Nice guys finish last...

 

I suffer nice guy syndrome.

 

I look like a typical douche jackass I'm going to reject any girl jock alpha male that would mistreat his girl... that's what gets me women (even though I DON'T want this to be the way to get women)... but once they get to know me... they either fall in love with me (very, very few of women fall in this category).. or they reject me b/c they want a bad boy who can 'show them a good time'...

 

w/e.. their loss.

[SadandConfusedWA]

Although I agree to an extent, I wonder how common is this behavior really?

My gf is one of those stereotypical "nice girls". Certainly not a doormat, but wouldn't cause trouble for no reason. So I really like that and I wouldn't exchange it for anything else, much less an actually mean person. In fact, even the smallest act of nagging on her side (she's just an ordinary woman, after all ), sets the clock back a bit on our relationship since this always triggers a period of extra scrutiny and suspicion on my side to try to determine whether she isn't a Dragon in sheep's clothing after all...

 

Awww Mr White, I love guys like you

[ShamWoW]

Awww Mr White, I love guys like you

 

Sweet talker!!!

[mem11363]

Yes - I think they would say I am happy. I think they would also say that I am actively interested in them and their lives and that I am generally plugged in enough to the every day information flow of life that I am also usually interesting to be with.

 

Changing the subject:

 

I noticed your post about your father and it made me wince. My dad had a mild paranoid side (my mother did not). I have a mild paranoid side. My wife also has a mild paranoid side. We have 3 kids.

 

Our youngest daughter has pronounced paranoia. This really and truly sucks. She is pretty and when she is NOT being paranoid she is clever and fun and funny and observant. She is charming except when she gets paranoid at which point she is very much not fun to be around. This is truly a genetic thing. Nothing bad has ever happened to her. And I say that with great confidence - she was never in day care and has never been left in a situation where bad things could have happened. She has just been like this from the beginning. I am getting her a therapist at her request. Her paranoia has gotten in the way of her having friends at school. She has had one or two friends over time but right now seems almost friendless. I took her to school at start of the school year to pick up her books and 4 different kids came up to her and said hi in a friendly way and each and every time she responded with body language that conveyed "go away and leave me alone". I swear I almost cried as we left the school. And I spoke to her about this on the way home. I asked her if she thought the other kids were being friendly in a sincere way. And she said that all but one of them were sincere. And yet she had some rationale for why she blew the other 3 off. UGH!!! I know she is lonely.

 

The way her paranoia manifests is that someone will do something that she doesn't like. And she immediately becomes convinced that the ONLY reason they are doing that is to "mess with her". I have tried to explain to her that many times people inadvertently hurt us - and if we nicely explain what is happening and they stop - that is typically a sign that they had no malice. If they continue to hurt after being informed - well that is different. And she IS intelligent, she argues like a mini-lawyer. Multi-layered logic, highly aware of subtle body language but her baseline is too assume that people have bad motives. Ugh....

 

I am just fortunate that this paranoia has never taken on sexual overtones - at least not to date. And yes she is aware of that stuff but luckily no one has harassed her. She knows I would protect her.

 

 

Mem:

 

I have another question for you: would you say that people around you, co-workers, friends etc consider you a happy person?

[SadandConfusedWA]

Mem,

 

Thanks for your post. My mum doesn't have a paranoid side at all. Yet because she was/is a weaker partner my dad has almost managed to "brain wash" her into beleiving his conspiracy theories. I feel like I am mildly paranoid and yet my dad is severly so, to the point that he has no friends and has forbidden my mum to have any friends either. Nowdays I prefer not to talk to my dad much, because he keeps telling me that everyone is talking badly about me behind my back, that I am about to get fired because I made a small mistake at work etc. So he adds fuel to the fire to my already paranoid tendencies.

 

He also refuses to see that he has a problem and has never seeked help.

[MissJoness]

I also noticed that these type of ppl tend to have a lot of friends and are popular

 

At work, the most nastiest, gossipy men/women who talks about ppl, have so many associates and friends and are usually the ring leader in cliques. If you are very nice, friendly, and dont talk say nasty things about ppl behind their back ppl think you are boring and uninteresting.

[4givrnt4gtr]

Ok so I read all the responses (thanks by the way!) and I one thing i noticed is that a lot of people confused "mean" with "assertive"

That book someone mentioned, why women love bi tches, despite the title, does not talk about the type of people im talking about. It talks about secured, healthy self esteem women who wont be walked on. THats not what im refering to.

 

However, I wonder if that is what is happening? why people tend to put up with rude partners? maybe a lot of us confuse being assertive and strong with being mean, demanding and rude?

 

Personally, Im a very calm person, I dont tend to bark, but when I bite, I bite hard. In one of my last relationships, my ex kept bugging me about why I didnt fight with him, why I didnt yell at him or slap him for some of his rude comments. I usually pointed out, very calmly that I had enough education and intelligence to solve problems talking, not yelling. He would often call me submissive and passive, I just told him he was seeing what he wanted to see. I did bring up issues about the relationship, and true perhaps I should have "barked" louder, but when pushed came to shove and I decided he was not what I needed i broke it off. THen he was completely taken aback....what?! how?! why?!!!. I guess he was one of those that unless you yell he cant hear you/respect you.

 

I thought he was an exception, but looking at the people around me... I guess he isnt......

 

I do agree some people are able to value good natured, easy going (not doormat) people. But for the most part, as far as Ive seen....there are more who rather be or have fallen for the rude, my way or the highway personalities.

 

MissJones I agree with you, I have often thought/ saw that is what the reaction to people who tend to be more calm and polite, that they are boring and bring nothing to the table. My last ex was actually like that, he was the sweetest, nicest guy. I personally loved his gentleness, but his ex before me beat him down to a pulp making him believe that because he was like that he was boring and had nothing to give. Unfortunately, as I said before he put up with that for too long and ended up believing her. Which is sad.

 

So now my question is....clearly being "nice" takes you nowhere, relationships or otherwise....would you ump your b itchometer in order to have a better chance to find a relationship or would you rather be nice and single?

[Ilovehim]

i disagree...

 

rude people hardly have alot of friends or successful relationships because in order to be a SUCCESSFUL COUPLE you need to be 2 successful individuals. a successful person respects themselves and demands to be treated with respect. i dont think "being rude to" is something that a decent woman/man would tolerate.

 

however sometimes you do see col/careless "i don't care-attitude type of people" be LOVED and adored. i never understood that. my friend can be heartless sometimes and her boyfriend loves her, but she does have a lot of good qualities and treats him with a lot of love and respect but i don't know...i have noticed this on a few people though..

[mem11363]

That is sad. I mean I am glad your Dad loves your mom and is happy he married her but it doesn't sound quite like the situation is so good for her.

 

As for just in general being negative - I guess we all are like that sometimes. But I try to remind myself that we have a huge amount of control over our lives if we simply choose to exert effort in the right way.

 

My mother was a very positive person. And a happy one.

 

I am not and never have been paranoid about my wife. I totally trust her. I trust her to not cheat - to love me - to be there for me when I am sick. And the same is true in reverse. Trust is very very high in our marriage. If it weren't I would end it. Really I could not sleep with someone I don't trust. And if I die - she is totally set for life.

 

Our oldest daughter is a bit different. She is 19 and can be an angry and aggressive little monkey. She doesn't live home anymore but when she visits I lock the bedroom door at night. Really. Not kidding. I mean it is highly unlikely she would try to do us in - but I think a simple precaution like that is not a bad idea.

 

 

Mem,

 

Thanks for your post. My mum doesn't have a paranoid side at all. Yet because she was/is a weaker partner my dad has almost managed to "brain wash" her into beleiving his conspiracy theories. I feel like I am mildly paranoid and yet my dad is severly so, to the point that he has no friends and has forbidden my mum to have any friends either. Nowdays I prefer not to talk to my dad much, because he keeps telling me that everyone is talking badly about me behind my back, that I am about to get fired because I made a small mistake at work etc. So he adds fuel to the fire to my already paranoid tendencies.

 

He also refuses to see that he has a problem and has never seeked help.

[paddington bear]

Ok so I read all the responses (thanks by the way!) and I one thing i noticed is that a lot of people confused "mean" with "assertive"

That book someone mentioned, why women love bi tches, despite the title, does not talk about the type of people im talking about. It talks about secured, healthy self esteem women who wont be walked on. THats not what im refering to.

 

However, I wonder if that is what is happening? why people tend to put up with rude partners? maybe a lot of us confuse being assertive and strong with being mean, demanding and rude?

 

Personally, Im a very calm person, I dont tend to bark, but when I bite, I bite hard. In one of my last relationships, my ex kept bugging me about why I didnt fight with him, why I didnt yell at him or slap him for some of his rude comments. I usually pointed out, very calmly that I had enough education and intelligence to solve problems talking, not yelling. He would often call me submissive and passive, I just told him he was seeing what he wanted to see. I did bring up issues about the relationship, and true perhaps I should have "barked" louder, but when pushed came to shove and I decided he was not what I needed i broke it off. THen he was completely taken aback....what?! how?! why?!!!. I guess he was one of those that unless you yell he cant hear you/respect you.

 

I thought he was an exception, but looking at the people around me... I guess he isnt......

 

I do agree some people are able to value good natured, easy going (not doormat) people. But for the most part, as far as Ive seen....there are more who rather be or have fallen for the rude, my way or the highway personalities.

 

MissJones I agree with you, I have often thought/ saw that is what the reaction to people who tend to be more calm and polite, that they are boring and bring nothing to the table. My last ex was actually like that, he was the sweetest, nicest guy. I personally loved his gentleness, but his ex before me beat him down to a pulp making him believe that because he was like that he was boring and had nothing to give. Unfortunately, as I said before he put up with that for too long and ended up believing her. Which is sad.

 

So now my question is....clearly being "nice" takes you nowhere, relationships or otherwise....would you ump your b itchometer in order to have a better chance to find a relationship or would you rather be nice and single?

 

I agree with this thread 100%. I've noticed this too over and over. For all the 'I'm a nice guy threads' I've seen among my contemporaries that 'nice men' go for demanding, nasty women while all claiming they want something other than that. Or you hear what a lovely sweet understanding wife they have...and then you meet the wife and realise the guy is totally blinkered to what a nasty piece of work she is.

 

I've heard so many times 'oh I've got to go, you know, the old ball and chain at home' but with a grin - as in 'I love being totally pussy-whipped and having my life controlled by my other half'. They love it. They say they don't, but they love being treated like crap, makes them feel loved, gives them attention, gives them a purpose, something to work for (fulfilling the endless whining demands) in order to feel like a man.

 

To me there are the categories: nice guy/nice girl doormat - no one respects that level of low self-esteem 'I will do anything for you, put up with any kind of shoddy treatment and come back for more' attitude.

 

Then there is what you mentioned, the middle ground, reasonable people - who according to you (and me) are ignored in favour of unreasonable drama queens who wield a metaphorical whip.

 

Then there is the downright demanding, not so very nice people. And you are right, despite what men say about wanting a caring partner, from personal observation, men want to be treated like a piece of crap, want to be told what to do, when to come home, how late they can stay out, which friends they can hang out with and for how long and on and on. They complain about it, but on some level maybe it makes them feel loved or noticed or needed in some way.

 

I don't get it. Unless these men have such low self-esteem that they don't get that when someone simply loves them as they are, that that is enough, they need to be reminded that they are not good enough and be sent off to fulfill tasks to feel manly and confident...whereas if they had that confidence in the first place they wouldn't be with a demanding woman.

 

Have you noticed as well the type of men with these women? Nice, decent, sensitive, intelligent, caring guys - all being bossed around terribly by their female half.

 

And you are right, a quick review of my friends in LTR's or married are like this and my other 'sweeter more understanding' female friends are left on the shelf. (also agree re the Men Marry Bitches book, that was to do with self-esteem, whereas what you and I are talking about is women being downright rude and overly-demanding...yet still having a LTR). Isn't there something wrong here?

 

Now...this could be that these type of women are go-getters, will step over anyone to get what they want i.e. a man, and so therefore end up in an LTR whereas 'nicer' girls wouldn't resort to that type of behaviour and so get nothing, so it may not be that they are more desireable, just that they will stoop at nothing to get what they want (men typically never see or notice the bitchy comments and back-stabbing behaviour used by these women, so go on oblivious).

 

I have pondered your question about becoming a complete b**ch in order to get that longed-for loving LTR...but honestly, I couldn't respect a partner who would allow me to treat them like that and nor can I change my personality over night...and nor do I want to. Would be nice to find someone who was relieved and happy to find someone who cared and respected him, without resorting to turning into some kind of second, nagging mother-figure.

[Johnny M]

Have you noticed as well the type of men with these women? Nice, decent, sensitive, intelligent, caring guys - all being bossed around terribly by their female half.

Decent, intelligent, caring guys tend to be somewhat shy. They are also considered too nice, and rarely give women that all-important "butterflies in the stomach" feel. Given the choice, most women go for the more aggressive, alluring, 'bad boy' type.

 

As a consequence, these guys don't fair well with the opposite sex and become desperate. And that makes them easy targets for the kind of bitchy, abusive woman who, unlike most other women, has no qualms with making the first move and who has no problem dating a nice guy who she can easily manipulate and control (unlike a 'bad boy', who'd likely punch their head in first time she raised her voice). In fact, the typical 'nice guy' beta male is a perfect host for the female parasite described in this thread (and that's exactly what these women are - parasites).