What's your definition of "settling"?

[giotto]

I do my very best to try to hide this. You say I knew all this going into marriage ( that she didn't like anal ) but she knew how much I did as well. So as much as it sucks for me to be sexually dissatisfied with her...I realize that it must suck for her to know I am sexually dissatisifed with her...but she knew what I liked and if she knew how much she hated it and would be unwilling to do it then it is just as much her issue as mine.

 

I have been following this post, but now I feel I must respond. This is such a load of crap on so many levels.

 

This is NOT HER ISSUE. It is yours. Yes it takes two to make a sexually-satisfying relationship. But this is YOUR desire. So it is up to you to 1) determine how important this need is and 2) evaluate whether or not this person is willing to satisfy your need BEFORE you married.

 

This is tantamount to you saying that it was HER JOB TO CHANGE FOR YOU. You went into it expecting this, even though she made it clear that she doesn't like it (in fact, it sounds like she more than doesn't like it).

 

If I thought that my H HAD to have anal sex often to be satisfied, I would be sure to let him know that it just ain't going to happen. If he chooses to still be with me, then he knows it will involve a life without anal sex. Period.

 

You don't get to come back and now say it is HER fault that she isn't sexually satisfying you with something that SHE NEVER HID THAT SHE HATES and that you knew she wasn't willing to provide often.

 

You're playing the victim. Decide what you can and cannot live with. And then choose.

 

exactly what I think, I'm afraid...

[Ilovehim]

WOW!!! i don't know how i got around this post and i dont mean to bash you but i pray to God that i dont have your wife's luck. do you understand how MESSED UP this whole thing is? FROM THE START!! U should have never married her.. i would be devistated if i married someone i loved and he "never felt fireworks for me" "found me boring in bed" "didint feel passionate about me". did she know alllll these HORRIBLE things before you married her? guys like you scare me when it comes to love...i dont think u can comprehend how hurtful everything you're saying is....fireworks and chemistry are what divide a friend from a romantic partner...cant u find a good stable person who has all the amazing qualities your wife has AND whom you feel butterflies and passion with? why do you have to chose?? im sounding harsh but you are NOT as much of a good man as you think you are...how would you liek it if someone NEVER felt passionate with you but married you anyway? while YOU on the other side were crazy in love with them??? you are unbelievable....and dont act like the victim because you are not, SHE IS!! her whole marriage has been a lie...you were never in love with her..."i never felt fireworks with her since the first time i met her" with what nerve do you say that about someone YOU MARRIED?? Seriously, go see a councelor..its not your fault you lack feelings for her..your fault is that you married someone whom you werent in love with because she has all the qualities of a wife...wow...how sad is this story..i hope and pray i never meet someone like you...im sorry, its the truth...i actually felt sad just at the thought that this could happent o me or someone i love...life is too short to be with someone who DOESNT LOVE YOU "in that way"

[DestroyerOfWorlds]

WOW!!! i don't know how i got around this post and i dont mean to bash you but i pray to God that i dont have your wife's luck. do you understand how MESSED UP this whole thing is? FROM THE START!! U should have never married her.. i would be devistated if i married someone i loved and he "never felt fireworks for me" "found me boring in bed" "didint feel passionate about me". did she know alllll these HORRIBLE things before you married her? guys like you scare me when it comes to love...i dont think u can comprehend how hurtful everything you're saying is....fireworks and chemistry are what divide a friend from a romantic partner...cant u find a good stable person who has all the amazing qualities your wife has AND whom you feel butterflies and passion with? why do you have to chose?? im sounding harsh but you are NOT as much of a good man as you think you are...how would you liek it if someone NEVER felt passionate with you but married you anyway? while YOU on the other side were crazy in love with them??? you are unbelievable....and dont act like the victim because you are not, SHE IS!! her whole marriage has been a lie...you were never in love with her..."i never felt fireworks with her since the first time i met her" with what nerve do you say that about someone YOU MARRIED?? Seriously, go see a councelor..its not your fault you lack feelings for her..your fault is that you married someone whom you werent in love with because she has all the qualities of a wife...wow...how sad is this story..i hope and pray i never meet someone like you...im sorry, its the truth...i actually felt sad just at the thought that this could happent o me or someone i love...life is too short to be with someone who DOESNT LOVE YOU "in that way"

 

Well I certainly appreciate all the honestly coming from people here. I have found this board more helpful than anything else I have done \ read \ seen as far as relationships \ self awareness go.

 

Unfortunately I think things have become rather clear to me over the course of all of this.

 

I loved my ex before my W. She was my first in every sense of the word and we were engaged to be married after 7 years. I loved her but I have mentined that she stressed me out often with her spending, inability to hold a job. She knew she wanted to marry me very early on though and brought up the subject of a ring many times and how she wanted to have a family with me etc etc...

 

8 months before the wedding I thought she had everything she wanted ( I do see the irony in all of this BTW ) but she went on vacation with a friend and ended up cheating with a guy and leaving me for him. I was bitter, angry and crushed. Deep down I knew it was probably better for me that she left but that didn't stop the pain. So when I met my W she was a breath a fresh air and was great to be around and do things with. Since it was only 2 months after my breakup I think I was still too emotionally guarded at the time and really wasn't capable of feeling "fireworks" no matter who it was. Since I realized how much passionate, fireworks and butterfiles love burned me before it wasn't something I was too concerned about looking for.

 

4 months after dating my W my ex wanted to come back but I was much happier with where I was. As the relationship grew and developed I felt there was enough there even if "everything" wasn't there because "everything" is never there...when blinded by "fireworks" sometimes you think that though.

 

I never saw my parents so much as hug unless my siblings or I forced them to do it. There was no obvious affection there at all ( they are still together ) and they often used me as a sounding board to vent their frustrations about the other. So I never grew up in an environment where "fireworks" seemed to be anywhere within sight and since I had nothing to complain about my W like my dad did about my mom and vice versa I figured I had all I needed.

 

Anyway, that's it in a nut shell. I love her, I love my son and I want to make a happy life for them. I have made a terrible mistake and will do the best I can from here on out.

[cuppa]

Hey everybody,

 

I've told the story on here before but here is a quick summary.

 

I've been with my wife for 8 years; married for 3.5 and have a 2 year old child.

 

I met my wife 2 months after I was in a 7 year relationship that ended badly. I had loved my ex and the emotional and sexual chemistry felt unreplaceable but life with her was a roller coaster. She couldn't hold a job, battled depression, gained 90 lbs, was always sick etc etc... It hurt when she left but deep down I knew it was the best thing she had ever done for me.

 

When I met my W I thought she was a pretty cool person. She was fun to talk to, had a much more cheery / upbeat personality and was up for just about anything. ( where as my ex mostly just wanted to go to movies or watch TV at home ). It was like night and day between the 2 of them. Where as life had been up and down with my ex it was more of a straight line with my W. We never fought and got along amazingly well so she never gave me the head ache and heart ache that my ex did but she never quite made me feels the highs I did when things were good with my ex either.

 

Sex with my W was never what it had been with my ex but everything else about her was perfect. My physical attraction to her would always have been what I describe as "luke warm" so perhaps that didn't help.

 

Anyway to make a long story short; I had an affair last year that lasted for 8 months and I fell in love with the OW. I stayed with my wife for many reasons ( a VERY important one being our child ).

 

I had wanted to make my marriage work, I never wanted to leave my W but had been sexually unsatisfied for 7 years and ended up having the A ( no justification I know ). I have what I always wanted and planned for in life. I have a W who is my best friend and whom I can trust and get along amazingly with. She is a wonderful mom and I love her family and love being a part of it. We have the house we wanted, both love our jobs, are financially stable, have a child we both love more than anything and she is very much in love with me. Life is great...until we are alone in the bedroom. She really just doesn't do anything for me in bed and being disappointed with the lack of sex before the A...now I mostly couldn't care less. It has become a physical activity for me with no added emotional attachment. I feel horrible saying that and wish I didn't feel that way.

 

Last week my sister told me that my W and I were the talk of the extended family over the holidays and how they think it's a bad idea to even consider having another child in this marriage ( wouldn't even be considering trying until next year...this isn't a "marriage fixer" scheme ). They thought we look so fake and I am obviously unhappy ( that is true but had alot to due with how the A ended ). So many people tell me that I have settled with my W and life is too short to live that way. I get so little supportive advice towards staying in my marriage and making it work.

 

Before I asked my W to marry me I knew that the sex was lacking for me and I knew that there were no fireworks when I looked at her. I could almost see it as loving more from my head than my heart in a way. There were so many things I love about my W though and have no complaints or anything about her. I figured that looks fade over time and eventually sex isn't important as we get older so if those things were the areas that I was not totally sold on..well they wouldn't last anyway. I don't believe I settled. No one is perfect and you can't expect the perfect partner so you need to make compromises somewhere right?

 

So I ask you, what is your definition of settling in a relationship...versus just having reasonable expectations that your partner can't be EVERYTHING that you would like.

 

I was wondering if I was in your wife position. If you don't mind me asking, do you know what makes the bedroom activities boring? Is she attractive? Does she have a nice body? Is she responsive? or this is a matter of chemistry? was there ever a period that you were more "lukewarm" to her? like can't keep your hands off her but then it wore off over the time?

 

I'm so sorry if this is way too personal, it's just that your post makes me wonder about my own situation and it seems that this is the angle that i never thought about.

[wheelwright]

I am not sure there is a better answer to your question other than the one you have come up with. Especially as you are willing to put the needs you perceive your child as having above your own.

 

However, have you seen the Woody Allen film Vicky Cristina Barcelona? I think it sums it all up very nicely. There isn't an answer to this conundrum, just to decide who you want to be, or acknowledge who you are.

 

BTW, I am kind of hoping the anal sex thing is a side issue. Fireworks and no anal would be fine, yes?

[DestroyerOfWorlds]

I was wondering if I was in your wife position. If you don't mind me asking, do you know what makes the bedroom activities boring? Is she attractive? Does she have a nice body? Is she responsive? or this is a matter of chemistry? was there ever a period that you were more "lukewarm" to her? like can't keep your hands off her but then it wore off over the time?

 

I'm so sorry if this is way too personal, it's just that your post makes me wonder about my own situation and it seems that this is the angle that i never thought about.

 

Well considering I've been feeling like the "bad guy" for awhile here now...anything I could possibly offer someone else that might be of some benefit to them sounds great to me.

 

My W has a nice body and she looked awesome on our wedding day. She's not ugly but not a natural beauty either. In trying to be honest here I will say that she has "good days" if that makes any sense. She's very much a glasses and ponytail type most of the time.

 

I have to give her full marks for how she tried to change since the A and is making every effort to try to improve things in the bedroom so what I will say about that is not the current situation.

 

For a long time it seemed her version of foreplay was to get undressed...everything else became my responsibility after that and 9/10 times she really didn't do much more than lay there. I also had an issue with her hygeine "down there" which ultimately was my own fault for not having the b**ls to mention for years. Instead, an activity I used to enjoy doing became something that I did ( I can't think of the word...not begrudingly because I did it voluntarily...but I didn't like doing it...I just knew that she did ). So in the beginning she was more responsive and I was excited by her spontanaity ( which didn't exist with my ex because she had to make sure she showered before anything happened most of the time ) but as a relationship settles in and the spontanaity tends to disappear and the excitement slows down her lack of effort in pleasing me sexually and her hygeine issues became more noticable to me I guess. It became that not only were some sexual activities not a turn on for me...but had actually become a turn off.

 

Ultimately though she hates what I love when it comes to sex. I love sex but she seemed to not have such natural inclinations to it. I just don't feel she is a very sexual person. I never had to ask my ex or my xAP to be clean it was just something they wanted to do for themselves....but she's just not like that. I had to ask her to start trimming "down there" when we got together because it was nothing she would have ever thought to do on her own. I don't know that I can explain it any better than that. I think she and I are just a drastic mismatch in that dept and the only way it can work is for me to accept that.

 

I hope that is of some use to you anyway...even if it is just in realizing that it is useless :-)

[carhill]

So I ask you, what is your definition of settling in a relationship...versus just having reasonable expectations that your partner can't be EVERYTHING that you would like.

 

Creating a psychological dynamic within oneself which materially affects how one relates to others in interpersonal relationships; a dynamic, a schism if you will, of health and perceived responsibility and/or obligation.

 

Considering the read in this thread, IMO, you have some difficult decisions ahead. If there is no fundamental 'connection' between yourself and your W, IME, it's probably healthier to D and move on in a positive way. Recovery from an affair can take years and IMO is where that 'connection' is critical. You both have to want it from the depth of your soul.

[DestroyerOfWorlds]

I am not sure there is a better answer to your question other than the one you have come up with. Especially as you are willing to put the needs you perceive your child as having above your own.

 

However, have you seen the Woody Allen film Vicky Cristina Barcelona? I think it sums it all up very nicely. There isn't an answer to this conundrum, just to decide who you want to be, or acknowledge who you are.

 

BTW, I am kind of hoping the anal sex thing is a side issue. Fireworks and no anal would be fine, yes?

 

I haven't seen that movie but just read the summary on wikipedia. Probably sounds interesting to alot of people on here.

 

I think in this case I am trying to be who I want to be. My xAP was well aware of this and told me more than once that I could just be who I am around her.

 

The anal thing would be REALLY nice...but I think that if there are fireworks going off you don't really tend to notice much else ( good or bad ) either way

[DestroyerOfWorlds]

Destroyer,

 

I will make a suggestion because frankly at this point although a longshot it might be worth trying.

 

You have to be much more assertive and specific about what you want but in a persuasive way. You also have to train your woman to like what you want her to like.

 

This will require work and sacrifice on your part and may not be successful. But the approach which might work is, first, you have to completely stop worrying about your own pleasure and only focus on your wife's.

 

You've talked about her poor hygeine "down there" but given your penchant for the back door it's not precisely clear what you mean. Is her pussy dirty/smelly/unclean? Or, her anus? Or, both? Or, is it just that her pubic hair is unshaven/untrimmed/unkempt? Or, a combination?

 

Basically you are going to have to get her to shave herself/wax herself completely bald down there. One way or the other. And this may be a huge fight/power struggle but nevertheless you have to win the fight. Maybe you can offer to shave her yourself.

 

I have been married for 16 years and I just had this fight with my wife last year. She absolutely refused to shave down there until after we had this big fight. As it turns out it really wasn't about her pubic hair at all; that was just a proxy for some other serious issues that got aired out in the process. One of those issues was that my wife had cheated on me many years ago before we were married. Another was that apparently every time we had ever had sex my wife had to fantasize about other guys to get off. Every time. Even on our honeymoon. She never had told me about that, somehow I squeezed it out of her during our marital crisis which was triggered by the "shaving argument" last year. (So yeah I guess I personally know what it's like to be married to someone who evidently doesn't feel "fireworks," never did, and never bothered to clue me into that. Gee no wonder there was somewhat of a lack of intimacy in our relationship."

 

And all this crap did not start to come out until something possessed me to force the issue of her refusal to shave herself. So there have been some pretty big changes in our relationship since then, for the better. And you know what? As it turns out she likes it better shaved anyway.

 

She refused to shave for me because she characterized it as a "power issue" in the relationship. To me it seemed like it was more of an intimacy hang up on her part. It really pissed me off that she wouldn't shave even ONE time for me, her husband. Just because I asked her to, to try something a little different, but not THAT extreme, that might help out/spice up our sex life. You know it's easier to do the oral stuff and certainly easier hygeine wise when she's shaved.

 

If your wife's hygeine is a problem there is no other way around it then to, as gently as possible, point that out. Maybe the way to do it is to take a bath or shower together and wash her yourself. Maybe you are also talking about her not keeping her butt clean enough? Again I'm afraid the direct approach might be the only one there is.

 

In any case if she won't shave her pussy at the very least it has to be well trimmed (no one wants to have to deal with 'ol "sasquatch" in the wife's crotch after all) and obviously her pussy, anus and "taint" should be absolutely spic 'n' span. (As yours should be. Before I asked my wife to shave down there I manscaped, at least as well as I could without inadvertently cutting my nuts off.)

 

Note, none of these things are even close to actually putting your tool up her back door. But if she won't trim it up/shave for you and won't even keep her butt clean and fresh as a daisy for you, if her pussy smells like rotting mackerel, then you have to address those issues first.

 

O.K. let's assume you've actually gotten her to agree to trim it up and keep it clean down there.

 

Then it's your job to spend at least several weeks if not months doing nothing but giving her pleasure and putting your own secondary. I.e. you give her tons of oral and make sure she gets off. Make it romantic, scented candles, massage oils, lubes, bottle of wine, buy her sexy lingerie, vibrators, etc. etc. etc., do as many of the little things you can think of, so that she comes to think of sex time with you as fun and intimate, something to look forward to. And be content with whatever she is willing to give you in return, even if that is not anal for the time being. Don't make your sexual times with her be perceived by her as a time of pressure or stress.

 

O.K. you are getting her addicted to your oral, then what do you do? Well I notice you don't mention specifically anyway "rimming" her; maybe that's because she's kind of dirty down there, which is why you want to address the isssue post haste. So when you have really gotten her going good with her tongue down there one day you have to keep going south until you are giving her good analingus. If you want her to get into anal you have to make that area a pleasure center for her. Not just for you.

 

And you have to follow that slow progression. Now she already has done anal for you so I'm not clear on what the real problem is. She's withholding it from you because she knows it's so important to you. All you have to do is figure out how to do it so she enjoys it. Maybe you can have her use a vibrator on herself in front while you are in the back or something?

 

You seem to have lots of experience with anal, far more than I do, so this is stuff you should already know about. Right?

 

1000 - of all the posts I have responded too I find this one the most difficult...but I will try none the less.

 

We took care of the shaving issue very quickly in the relationship. It was "sasquatch" territory as you put it and I told her that I would appreciate it if that disappeared. So that hasn't been an issue since about 4 months into our relationship.

 

As for your other suggestions, thanks for taking the time to write and for being so blunt about it too.. I am both sorry to hear that you found out that there were "fireworks" missing in your relationship and happy to hear that our situation has been much improved.

 

I have been with my W for 8 years so I have tried many of these suggestions all ready. I feel it has went beyond weeks or months of trying to pleasure her without worrying about my self....I feel I have tried that route for years. There have been candles and massages and lotions and vibrators etc etc etc.. I felt I tried everything I could to please her and did not make her feel pressured or stressed to try to pleasure me ( I just settled into the "ok dear..I guess anal once a year is all it's gonna be then" routine.

 

The hygiene issue referred to both front and back. I learned very early on in our relationship ( the hard way ) that she was nowhere near as clean as my ex. I never felt I could justifiabley call her out on it because I had only been with the 2 women so for all I knew my W could be the norm and my ex was just a freak about being clean. Being with my xAP though who was even more clean than my ex had altered my mindset into then thinking my W is the only one of 3 who was unpleasent to be around "down there".

 

Someone mentioned earlier that perhaps I needed to be gentler or something along those lines to make it better for her...but as you mentioned...I do have alot of experience with anal. I've been with 3 women who were against anal when I met them and I turned 2 into fans. My ex has said that after 9 years now she has never found another guy who can make it as enjoyable. The last thing I want to do is physically hurt my W so I have been as careful as I can. Rimming worked with the ex and the xAP and was very pleasurable for both sides. It does nothing for my W though and I gave up even wanting to for years due to the hygiene issues.

 

I find things easier now though because I have basically lost interest for the most part. We had sex just before Christmas and it went from missionary to her on top to doggie style ( her suggestion...she was into in ). When we were doing it doggie-style and she was more or less spread open in front of me I mostly just wanted to gag from the smell from her butt. It is my main turn on with other women yet with my W I had to fight to maintain an errection for her to she could enjoy the sex while I tried not to breathe. I get that people can't always be clean...but if she's going to suggest a position like that I just wish it was a natural thought in her mind to make sure she was clean ( and this was after the A and after the whole cleanliness issues were brought up )

 

I do love her though. I am going away and she made me a little card letting me how wonderful I am and she can't wait for me to get back. Even after the A she is still saying that to me...it amazes me. I love her...but I just don't enjoy sex with her unfortunately.

[cuppa]

When we were doing it doggie-style and she was more or less spread open in front of me I mostly just wanted to gag from the smell from her butt. It is my main turn on with other women yet with my W I had to fight to maintain an errection for her to she could enjoy the sex while I tried not to breathe. I get that people can't always be clean...but if she's going to suggest a position like that I just wish it was a natural thought in her mind to make sure she was clean ( and this was after the A and after the whole cleanliness issues were brought up )

 

OMG, how could this be possible? Could you guys shower together first before doing it maybe? I feel sorry for your wife if she doesn't realize this. Could it be that she has vaginal infection and might need to see an ob gyn? I don't believe that we generally smell that bad down there, a lot of times, it's because of bacteria & infections or woman who exercise a lot but don't change their underwears after their exercises.

[cuppa]

When we were doing it doggie-style and she was more or less spread open in front of me I mostly just wanted to gag from the smell from her butt. It is my main turn on with other women yet with my W I had to fight to maintain an errection for her to she could enjoy the sex while I tried not to breathe. I get that people can't always be clean...but if she's going to suggest a position like that I just wish it was a natural thought in her mind to make sure she was clean ( and this was after the A and after the whole cleanliness issues were brought up )

 

No cuppa she may have that problem as well but it seems clear that destroyer is talking about his wife's dirty anus here.

 

hmm...I probably open a can of worm here but I am very sensual in nature but I don't think I could ever do anal and none of my girlfriends like it either. I could understand the wife's point of view though it's no excuse for her poor hygiene. I really think that she might have an infection and a trip to an OB GYN might save her marriage here.

[DestroyerOfWorlds]

Cuppa and 1000:

 

I do feel a need to step in and defend my W here for a second :-)

I am pretty confident that her hygiene issues aren't really a respresentation of any mental or psychological issues she may have. One of the things that drew me to my W was how "sane" she is. Considering my 2 other sexual relationships have been with some very emotionally troubled women I can safely say that my W is very "together". I'm never left scratching my head trying to figure out why she does what she does or says what she says like I did with the others.

 

I am also certain that she doesn't have any infections. After the A and I told her about the issue with her cleanliness she did go to her doctor and have them check her out. She has started using some of those feminine cleansing clothes since then which has certainly helped the issue but she still doesn't seem as clean as the others had been.

 

I feel it's what I have always said...I just don't feel my W is a very sexual person. She's the type of girl who didn't start shaving her legs until boys started teasing her in highschool, she never did any sort of trimming "down there" until I asked her to months after we were together. She had no clue that ponytails were considered "functional" as oppsed to "sexy" until she saw the movie The Ugly Truth. I have always told her what I like and she has rarely acted on it. She knows I love anal but has rarely been clean enough for me to really enjoy being around back there the whole time we've been together. It just doesn't even occur to her. She pleaures herself maybe twice a year even. It wouldn't matter if she was single or in a relationship her cleaning habits would be the same.

 

I also don't really feel that her once a year anal thing is so much a power trip so much as it is that she just doesn't like it at all but knows I love it so she tolerates the discomfort to do something special for me on my birthday. She's just not the type of person that would be manipulative or controlling.

 

Sadly, writing this response has reminded me very clearly of exactly how I ended up where I have.

[cuppa]

Destroyer, I think what you mean is that your wife is not a "girlie" girl. There are things that come naturally for some women and there are some women who are completely clueless when it comes to dressing up and make-ups (I work in engineering dept and I am known as a fashion cop in my office and women typically go to me for fashion & jewelry advice or where to go for facial & manicure/pedicure ).

 

Well...I guess you know your wife better than we do and you seem to know what exactly is the issue. you and I are on the same boat, we have sexual compatibility issue with our partner...how important it is and whether you can live like this for the rest of your life, only you know the answer. But to answer your original question, I don't think you are settling....it's just that like me, I think you wanted different things when you married your wife and you realize now that there are certain things, like sexual activities, that are quite important to you.

[WalkInThePark]

One of the things that drew me to my W was how "sane" she is. Considering my 2 other sexual relationships have been with some very emotionally troubled women I can safely say that my W is very "together".

 

You made a typical mistake. You had a bad experience with one type of woman and therefore you have chosen the exact opposite to get married. But what you forgot is that the emotionally troubled women had many characteristics that you liked. They were feminine and you were more on the same wavelenght.

 

Your W sounds like a very "no nonsense" woman, very businesslike. For me the most telling thing is that she cannot understand your love for hockey and hockey gadgets. These things are very important to people. Does not matter what your passion is, you really enjoy collecting stuff and knowing all about it.

 

As far as anal is concerned, I think that you are too focused on this. You have been wrongly programmed maybe because of watching too much porn. There is nothing wrong with wanting the act itself, there is something wrong with the obsessive way you want this. I had a relationship with a guy who did the same. Before anal sex was something I would fantasize about but had never done. It was not something I absolutely wanted to do but at the same time I could see myself doing it in the right situation. But this guy always started to immediately grope for my a$$ which made me really cringe and want to put in that area "Stay out".

 

I would not only say that your W is not a sexual woman, she seems to have a bad contact with her body. Because I can imagine a woman not being very sexual but still being very clean. I would like to point something out to you and also to 1000: ATTENTION! HAIR IN THE PUBIC AREA IS NOT THE SAME AS NOT BEING HYGIENIC. You can shave as much as you want, if you don't wash you are not clean.

The fact that you talk about your W using tissues shows me that she is simply not clean. Or lazy. Because keeping yourself clean means showering with water and soap/showergel.

 

I think there are women out there who are emotionally stable, sexual and feminine. They might not like anal sex as much as you do but they might give you a lot more fun in bed than you have with your W so that maybe you don't feel that need for anal so often anymore. And they might occasionally agree to have anal sex.

 

I think you never really felt crazily attracted to your W, you saw her more as your saviour because she is so down to earth.

[torranceshipman]

You made a really big mistake marrying someone who you weren't physically attracted to, and now you all are paying the price. This is undoubtedly humiliating and awful for your W - you have compromized in marrying her but she has also compromized by marrying you, as she now has a H who doesn't appreciate her sexually, is cold enough that the entire family notices, has cheated on her for 8 months, and is basically completely bad for her. DIVORCE and stop dragging all of this out. Hideous.

[1000]

Cuppa and 1000:

 

I do feel a need to step in and defend my W here for a second :-)

I am pretty confident that her hygiene issues aren't really a respresentation of any mental or psychological issues she may have.

 

Destroyer, unfortunately, IMO you are in denial. Your wife is regularly SO unclean in her genital/anal area, that it makes you actually gag during sex with her. You have told her about this and it does no real good. I am telling you my friend--being this unclean is NOT psychologically "normal" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Of course it may be a form of passive-aggressive behavior on her part: you want to keep forcing the anal issue, she'll remain unclean.

 

The bottom line is healthy psychologically adjusted adults wipe their asses properly after defecating. And when they take a shower they scrub those areas thoroughly, with soap and water, to ENSURE that those areas remain clean.

 

Regardless of whether or not they intend to have sex that evening--but ESPECIALLY if they're GOING to have sex.

 

What is the saying grandma tells us? "Always wear clean undies in case you're in an accident." Well grandma didn't have to tell us "always wipe your butt properly" because damn isn't that OBVIOUS?

 

 

 

One of the things that drew me to my W was how "sane" she is. Considering my 2 other sexual relationships have been with some very emotionally troubled women I can safely say that my W is very "together". I'm never left scratching my head trying to figure out why she does what she does or says what she says like I did with the others.

Your current wife is also emotionally troubled as proven by the recurring issue of her lack of bodily cleanliness. So all your important relationships have been with troubled women. It seems to me you ARE scratching your head about current Wife's failure to keep herself clean. Aren't you?

 

 

 

I am also certain that she doesn't have any infections. After the A and I told her about the issue with her cleanliness she did go to her doctor and have them check her out. She has started using some of those feminine cleansing clothes since then which has certainly helped the issue but she still doesn't seem as clean as the others had been.

O.K. if she doesn't have a yeast infection or whatever then the problem is clearly her lack of proper cleanliness. Does she shower every day? If not why not? Does she shower/bathe immediately before sex? Does she use soap? If not why not? If yes why isn't the soap and water working?

 

 

 

I feel it's what I have always said...I just don't feel my W is a very sexual person. She's the type of girl who didn't start shaving her legs until boys started teasing her in highschool, she never did any sort of trimming "down there" until I asked her to months after we were together.

Hmmmm....I think you are making some unwarranted assumptions. Not shaving the legs (while I prefer shaved legs on women) is not unhygenic, nor is not shaving the genital area (although I prefer it shaved on women as well). And, she did trim when you asked her to. My wife didn't for 18 years. However--the issue here is again: lack of basic cleanliness. Whatever her hang ups my wife never had an issue with using sufficient soap and water to keep very clean.

 

No one who has responded on your thread, man or woman, has indicated that failure to properly clean the front or back is in any way "normal" or "acceptable." For a man or woman.

 

She had no clue that ponytails were considered "functional" as oppsed to "sexy" until she saw the movie The Ugly Truth.

OK now you're saying there's something wrong with a girl wearing her hair in a ponytail? LOL. There's nothing wrong or "non sexy" if a girl wears a ponytail, some women look very very hot with them.

 

 

 

I have always told her what I like and she has rarely acted on it. She knows I love anal but has rarely been clean enough for me to really enjoy being around back there the whole time we've been together.

Yup I would guess the most likely explanation here is passive aggressive behavior by your wife. She's deliberately making herself physically disgusting to you to deter you from chasing anal sex aggressively. I guess if your wife is practical then actually this is a practical solution. On the other hand it's a pretty extreme solution as it requires her to be unclean.

 

 

 

It just doesn't even occur to her. She pleaures herself maybe twice a year even. It wouldn't matter if she was single or in a relationship her cleaning habits would be the same.

Well if she would not be clean regardless of your situation then something is wrong with her.

 

 

I also don't really feel that her once a year anal thing is so much a power trip so much as it is that she just doesn't like it at all but knows I love it so she tolerates the discomfort to do something special for me on my birthday. She's just not the type of person that would be manipulative or controlling.

Maybe not outright controlling but passive agressive people aren't upfront about it, they are indirect.

 

Sadly, writing this response has reminded me very clearly of exactly how I ended up where I have.

 

Well you are where you are, the question is, where do you want to go in the future?

 

First things first: your wife has to wipe her ass better. It's that simple. The next time you go to bed and her ass (or vag) is dirty, you turn the light on, sit bolt upright in bed, look her straight in the eye and say: "Honey your ass/vag is filthy again. This is disgusting and a real turn off to me. Now I insist you hop in the shower and scrub yourself down thoroughly. Right now."

 

Then you sit there with your arms crossed until she does exactly that.

Edited January 21, 2010 by 1000

[NowhereToHide]

It is only a passive-aggressive move if, and only if, she has a history of having proper hygiene (demonstrating that she understands what is needed to make that happen) and now she doesn't.

 

If she has ALWAYS had an issue with this, it's just not a passive aggressive thing. Someone needs to lead her by the hand and show her how to clean herself.

[1000]

It is only a passive-aggressive move if, and only if, she has a history of having proper hygiene (demonstrating that she understands what is needed to make that happen) and now she doesn't.

 

If she has ALWAYS had an issue with this, it's just not a passive aggressive thing. Someone needs to lead her by the hand and show her how to clean herself.

 

 

C'mon man. What you say is "theoretically" possible. But is it really like that Destroyer's wife never learned how to clean herself properly? And even if that might have been true at one time, he's told her about the problem and she's even GONE TO THE DOCTOR about it. Without question the doctor would have told her "hey you need to wash down there very thoroughly."

 

Look some people maybe are sweatier than others or have more secretions etc. and may need to put more effort into it. Maybe his wife is one of those people. Destroyer characterizes his wife as very practical, etc. Practical people know all about soap, water, keeping themselves clean, etc.

 

I don't really think it's a question of "knowing how" after all this time. It's a question of Destroyer's wife seeing just how much of this nonsense he's willing to put up with. I mean I'm sure he's practically begged her to keep it clean down there and she's refusing to do so.

 

Based on the info. we've been given--i.e. she's an intelligent, practical, and by all evidence according to Destroyer, otherwise "normal"--then she knows perfectly well about the hygiene issue.

 

Therefore I will have to stand by my suggestion that Destroyer simply needs to decide he will draw a line in the sand on this and not put up with the lack of basic hygeine for one second longer. Note I am not stating he has any right to demand anal sex from her. Just that she remains clean and hygenic.

 

IOW he needs to treat her just like you would treat a child who has been playing in the dirt pile all day, is completely filthy, but doesn't want to take a bath. Do you let them go to bed all dirty? No. You make them take a bath. And you keep reinforcing that idea of cleanliness until they internalize it.

 

Now if she refuses to clean her ass/vag upon request then you get into the next level of the issue. But Destroyer is not there yet because he's never actually put his foot down and insisted that his wife goes to bed with a reasonably clean ass.

[kuma]

I have a washlet toilet seat at home. I highly recommend it.

[giotto]

Have you thought of installing a bidet? No, seriously...

[WalkInThePark]

If she has ALWAYS had an issue with this, it's just not a passive aggressive thing. Someone needs to lead her by the hand and show her how to clean herself.

 

This is not something a grown up woman has to learn.

During my youth, my family did not have this habit of a daily shower. Just a wash at the sink and a bath once a week. But I washed myself completely at the sink every day, not very practical but otherwise I did not feel clean. I always had fights with my mother because she thought I "gave to much attention to my body".

Nobody ever taught me to be clean but I nevertheless was and I still am. Without exaggerating. A daily shower in the morning, deodorant, some perfume, clean underwear. And in case I know that I will have sex, a short second shower. It does not take a lot of effort but it feels so much more pleasant.

 

So I don't understand that someone has to learn (how) to do this.

[wheelwright]

I find this a disturbing thread. For some reason I can't handle that DOWs has divulged this very personal fact about his W here.

 

And I can't imagine not listening to someone who was telling me I needed to shower there.

 

And I can't imagine the dynamic here.

 

And I can't imagine enjoying having sex with a man so meticulous that he didn't enjoy my odour. Isn't that part of it?

 

Is this a joke? Who are you laughing at? Why?

 

If I wanted to go there with a man, he would have to be pretty filthy to put me off. And if he was that filthy, he would wash if he wanted to please me, surely?

 

And all the shaving talk. What kind of men are you? Women have hair. More or less, they keep it in check (a wholly cultural rather than sexual issue). You don't like a woman's hair? Are you a man?

 

Predilictions in sex are fine - if they suit both partners. If not, they can become a form of bullying.

 

My H would want to do it with me if I had been camping for a week without a shower. His passion would override any distaste. And in the right mood, I'd be the same.

 

You find this kind of thing a problem, you are squeamish, or you don't have any passion for your partner.

 

If I were to involve myself with purely mechanical sex, this would become a bigger issue.

[nddb]

My H would want to do it with me if I had been camping for a week without a shower. His passion would override any distaste. And in the right mood, I'd be the same.

 

Uhhhh...no.

 

Sex is supposed to be fun and enjoyable and yes, romantic.

 

Can't get too romantic when my eyes water from the BO.

 

Sorry.

[cuppa]

 

And all the shaving talk. What kind of men are you? Women have hair. More or less, they keep it in check (a wholly cultural rather than sexual issue). You don't like a woman's hair? Are you a man?

 

Predilictions in sex are fine - if they suit both partners. If not, they can become a form of bullying.

 

My H would want to do it with me if I had been camping for a week without a shower. His passion would override any distaste. And in the right mood, I'd be the same.

 

You find this kind of thing a problem, you are squeamish, or you don't have any passion for your partner.

 

If I were to involve myself with purely mechanical sex, this would become a bigger issue.

 

Sorry, I guess I'm supposed to be the traditional asian wife here but even I would find problem if my husband doesn't take care his hygiene. Camping a week without shower? eww... I'm sorry but not everyone is built that way. If my husband doesn't wipe his butt clean and he wants to have sex with me (regardless how rare and precious it is) and I could smell it, it will be a turn-off period. Human is shallow...It would not be fair of me to ask him to still love me when I don't take care of myself and my personal hygiene because if he let himself go, I would have issues with it. Good for you for not having issue but don't judge some that have issues with it.

[wheelwright]

Everyone's anonymous here. This whole site contains pretty personal stuff.

What don't you understand about not wanting to have sex with someone who is dripping in feces? I'm sorry we couldn't come to a meeting of the minds on this issue.

 

I think I get it now. The joke I mean.

 

For our minds to meet we would have to agree that another person is in some way disgusting because of their moral behaviour/personal hygeine.

 

I.e. I still don't get it. It takes more.

 

If I were the W of DOWs I would not want to sleep with him ever again on the strength of what he has posted.

 

I would however consider his W.