CaspianDreams Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 I just finished up a first date, and was hoping the LS crew could give me your interpretation of how things went - I'm was a bit thrown by the end. The story, we met on Match - she winked at me, then we each sent 2 e-mails, and then she asked me out. We went to a nice wine bar, she was there early, so she waited a few minutes, but I don't thinked she cared. Her response seemed positive when I arrived. We had a glass of wine, then she basically pushed for a second glass, prolonging the meeting. The conversation was pretty good, nice solid stints of eye contact, reasonable body language, but we were both sitting and it was a dark location, so I likely missed a lot of the minutia. There was no physical contact at the wine bar. The conversation was pretty back and forth, both asking questions, not terribly humorous, but it definitely circled around our shared interests. After ~1.5 hours, we decided to leave as she had to meet up with one of her friends to help her prep for an interview tomorrow. She offered to pay her way, and given the fact that I'm a student and she's employed, I said fine. She was about to take a cab home, but I offered her a ride - she accepted, so I drove her home. When we got to her place, I got thrown a very fast hug (while we were both in the car), which made it impossible to even attempt a kiss, and then she quickly left. So what are peoples' impressions? I actually thought things were going reasonably well (at least by first internet date standards), but the ending threw me for a loop, making me think that I completely miss interpreted her signs. Any ideas? I'd probably ask her out again and see how things go a second time around, but was curious to see how other people view the ending. Comments/thoughts are definitely appreciated.
counterman Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 It is hard to interpret it as I'm sure there's more detail to the date. Although, in saying that, signs can be mistaken pretty easily so it's best not to look into things too much. You spent a pretty decent amount of time with her and communication was both ways. And, she accepted your offer to drive her home. It seems to be fine, don't think about it too much. Definitely ask her out again and if she agrees to it then you have your answer. First date was fine. But, on the second date, maybe incorporate some playful bantering?
Author CaspianDreams Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 Well, I am sure there are other details that would be helpful in assessing my situation, but I'm not sure what they are - I'm more than happy to answer/address specific questions. That said, I realize there's no harm in proposing a second date...worst case scenario is silence.
mutemath Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Hard to say, honestly it sounds like it could really go either way. She may have been interested, unsure, or not interested. I don't get the vibe from your message that she was super interested, but it could still work out. A few signs that aren't great: 1) "After ~1.5 hours, we decided to leave as she had to meet up with one of her friends to help her prep for an interview tomorrow." -- Helping her friend prep for an interview tomorrow sounds kind of like an excuse to leave, but she may have just wanted to keep the date short and sweet. 2) "She offered to pay her way" -- If she was insistent about paying her way, sometimes this is a sign that she doesn't want to be viewed as a 'date'. 3) "When we got to her place, I got thrown a very fast hug (while we were both in the car), which made it impossible to even attempt a kiss, and then she quickly left." -- Sounds like she may not have wanted you to kiss her. This could have been due to a lack of interest, though she may just not want to kiss on the first date. I'd say follow up and see how it goes, anything could happen and you'll get a better gauge. Good luck!
counterman Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Well, one thing I would ask is: was it awkward in any way for some part of the date? But yes, I agree with mutemath, it could go either way! Signs are just signs, you can try to make anything of them and it still might not be interpretted correctly. No matter how we assess it, or yourself for that matter, just ask her out for the second date. Like you said, worst case scenario will be silence.
Author CaspianDreams Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 1. I actually believe her about having to meet up with her friend, as she actually pushed the meeting up an hour so she could have time to help her friend. 2. I honestly have no idea how to interpret the paying thing - she knows I'm a student - not sure what's typical/expected in this context. 3. The odd hug is without question my biggest question/concern. On some level it almost seemed like a token hug and get the hell out. I definitely left with the, "she didn't want a kiss" vibe. Making me think there was low interest, but I'm pretty new to online dating, so I don't really know what's expected at this point - I suppose it's possible she doesn't kiss on a first date (is that typical of a 34 year old woman when she's out with a younger guy (30)?), but I'm skeptical. As for her interest level, I would probably not place it in super interested (mine wasn't in the super interested level either). But she was definitely warm, leaning into the table to talk, shying away her eyes, then following with good eye contact, fingers occasionally flipping through her hair, putting chapstick on just before leaving the wine bar (that confused me, in particular with the ending hug) - I would have put her on the better side of a neutral impression/interest level.
Author CaspianDreams Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 Well, one thing I would ask is: was it awkward in any way for some part of the date? I can't really think of any part of the date that was awkward (at least to me), no strange silences, no seemingly awkward/uncomfortable conversation topics - things went pretty smooth, without any major hiccups. Thinking about it though, she did get a text/call/some kind of phone message from her friend while on the way back to her place, so she may have been running late and wanting to help (this friend has been out of work for 6 months, and this is a job lead that has connections to the girl I was out with) - no idea. There was obviously some level of trust (ride home), some interest (reasons mentioned earlier), just a very odd ending...I'm probably reading waaay too much into things, probably because the TVs on in the milieu and I have a few glasses of wine in me.
counterman Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 That's good to know. If it wasn't awkward and she felt comfortable enough for you to take her home, than that's a positve sign. With the hug, maybe she didn't want to rush a moment because she's in a rush herself to meet a friend? Or maybe she doesn't want a kiss on the first date? You never know. And if you really dwell on it, it'll drive you mad. I agree, you are thinking about this way too much! Just ask her out mate, this will signal interest and, if she's interested back, she'll agree to a second date! All this about the first date won't even matter anymore.
Author CaspianDreams Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 As for contact, yeah, yeah, I know. In reality it would likely have been a bit awkward, as we were sitting on opposite sides of the table, and it was a bit bigger than normal (full arms length), but still - probably could have come up with some lame excuse. Actually, I think I glanced her hand when she was sampling my wine (she actually did like sampling my wine - hmm), but it was pretty negligible, and easily interpreted as an accident.
skydiveaddict Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 ting. . She offered to pay her way, and given the fact that I'm a student and she's employed, I said fine. . BAD mistake my friend. NEVER let the lady pay! Hopefully you'll get a second date
Author CaspianDreams Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 True - all good suggestions that I'll have to remember. I occasionally do those things, like guide her through the doorway, but it's not my first instinct, for some reason I rarely try to force contact on a first date - likely a problem I have...gotta keep these things on the top of my head.
OnlyJake Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 (edited) It's possible that this girl just isn't into first date kisses, but more likely I think you didn't make a great impression. Obviously my opinion is colored by my own experiences, my friends' opinions and experiences, and my own preferences, but this is why I think that: 1. The story, we met on Match - she winked at me, then we each sent 2 e-mails, and then she asked me out. 2. We went to a nice wine bar, she was there early, so she waited a few minutes, but I don't thinked she cared. 3. We had a glass of wine, then she basically pushed for a second glass, prolonging the meeting. She's pursuing you and doing all the work. She's the one showing interest and making moves. I know that "coulda woulda shoulda" isn't very helpful, but for future reference, you should consider showing up a little early for dates, even just 5 minutes to show interest and enthusiasm. 4. There was no physical contact at the wine bar. Since she was the one making all the moves up to this point, you should've made the effort here. You would've stopped being passive, and actively showed her interest, and you also would've been able to gauge her comfort zone and the level of her interest. She seems very assertive and confident. She probably wasn't consciously testing you, but I think a reasonable explanation is that she was holding back because she wasn't sure where you stood, and you didn't come through. 5. She offered to pay her way, and given the fact that I'm a student and she's employed, I said fine. Are you a guy or a girl? While I'm pretty understanding about things like that, I really think you should've paid for both of you. First, because it was a first date and you're supposedly interested in her. Paying for her is one way of showing manners as well as interest (or lack of interest - I think someone else mentioned this, but if she was insistent on paying for herself, she's probably not interested). Since it sounds like you didn't do much to show interest before or during the date, this would've been your chance. Especially if you're interested in seeing this girl again - paying for this first date, which is cheap compared to a dinner date, for example, would've been clutch, and if you went out again, you could've let her pay and it would've been more OK. 6. She was about to take a cab home, but I offered her a ride - she accepted, so I drove her home. Who knows? Maybe this means she is interested. Maybe this means she couldn't really afford a cab or want to wait for one. Maybe this means she took this as a sign of your interest in her and was hoping you'd make some moves or something. 7. When we got to her place, I got thrown a very fast hug (while we were both in the car), which made it impossible to even attempt a kiss, and then she quickly left. At this point I find it hard to believe (given the information you've shared) that you would've attempted a kiss , and I bet she did too. If you're interested in this girl, I think you should send her a text saying you had a good time; DON'T email or call her in the meantime to chat; call her in a day or two and ask her out on a date - be specific. Choose a time, day and activity to suggest to her. If she's not available, but she's interested, she'll reschedule. *Edit: This is important for a second date. You should try to suggest a place or activity that she expressed interest in on the first date, or possibly in your prior communication. Example: If she mentioned that she loves ice skating, that's the date you should suggest. Edited January 13, 2010 by OnlyJake
OnlyJake Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Person that does the asking pays the bill imo. She should have insisted really. It dosen't seem right if the girl asks him to go out with her.. but he ends up paying when she is the one pursuing.. not exactly fair.. Normally I agree with this statement; however the fact that the OP seemingly didn't do ANYTHING to show interest in her, beyond going along with all of her signals means (IMO) that he should've paid, ie finally actively showed interest in her. Especially given the fact that apparently it was assumed that the OP would be paying (since the other woman isn't posting here we can't really criticize her too much if at all for that), he should've just paid for them both if he was interested in her.
Author CaspianDreams Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 (edited) Hmmm, now I'm lost - totally mixed reviews. Anyhow, for better or wose, I usually take things slow on the first encounter, in particular from an online source - I know almost nothing about them, so I'm usually more occupied with that then try to figure out clever ways to touch them...obviously this approach could be a problem. A) I have no idea if I would have tried to kiss her or not (although I think there would have been a fair chance for attempting a small kiss) B) A wine bar with some food isn't really cheap - bill with tip was ~$75 for the two of us - I've been on plenty of dinner dates that were cheaper. C) She didn't strongly insist on paying her way - just said she would and tossed out her credit card (well, maybe that is strongly insisting - I guess it's hard to know her position as I didn't really push back. D) I definitely gave her plenty of body language signals that I was on some level intererested E) I wasn't really thinking of all her pursuit signs during the date, so I definitely missed out on some "testing" occasions F) Did I give her a definitive sign I was interested - probably not G) In reality, my interest level was probably a bit better than neutral, but I wasn't jumping up and down - it's rare when a first date (in particualr from online) gets my heart racing - usually though, by date 2, things change a bit. This more neatral sensation likely caused me to be a bit more reserved. I know the more intrested I am, the more assertive/aggressive I am in illustrating interested. Edited January 13, 2010 by CaspianDreams
Author CaspianDreams Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 If you're interested in this girl, I think you should send her a text saying you had a good time; DON'T email or call her in the meantime to chat; call her in a day or two and ask her out on a date - be specific. Choose a time, day and activity to suggest to her. If she's not available, but she's interested, she'll reschedule. Just curious, but why is texting in this situation strongly preferred to an e-mail or call. Honestly, we haven't really chatted on the phone - just a few e-mails and a few texts. In that sense, a call may seem a bit strange, but why text versus e-mail? Just trying to understand where you're coming from, as it could be valuable insight.
OnlyJake Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 A) I have no idea if I would have tried to kiss her or not (although I think there would have been a fair chance for attempting a small kiss) If you didn't even know if you would kiss her, I'm sure she picked up on that as well. She was definitely doing her best to not make the "goodbye" awkward for either of you. B) A wine bar with some food isn't really cheap - bill with tip was ~$75 for the two of us - I've been on plenty of dinner dates that were cheaper. I guess I missed where you said you ate also. From your post it sounded like you each just had 2 drinks, or else I wasn't reading very carefully. Did she already have a drink when you got there, or was she waiting for you to order? If she was expecting to pay for herself (or both of you) it doesn't matter what she did. If she was expecting you to pay, she should have waited for you to order; asked what you were getting, and your response should've indicated to her the price range she should order in. Just an etiquette FYI for anyone who reads this and doesn't know. C) I definitely gave her plenty of body language signals that I was on some level intererested Like what? In regards to body language all I got from your post is that she seemed unclear of your interest (obviously I could be wrong) and that you were sitting across the table from her, so you were farther away from her and it was awkward to touch or anything. So what clear signals did you give her? D) I wasn't really thinking of all her pursuit signs during the date, so I definitely missed out on some "testing" occasions Regardless of if she was testing you, what I got out of your post is that it was a mediocre first date, and you failed to decisively show interest. E) Did I give her a definitive sign I was interested - probably not There's always next time F) In reality, my interest level was probably a bit better than neutral, but I wasn't jumping up and down - it's rare when a first date (in particualr from online) gets my heart racing - usually though, by date 2, things change a bit. This more neatral sensation likely caused me to be a bit more reserved. I know the more intrested I am, the more assertive/aggressive I am in illustrating interested. I definitely get that it can take time to build real interest and chemistry, especially with someone you met online or a random person who asks you out on a date. But if you were interested in her based off things in her profile (interests, goals, etc.) then you should still show interest on the date until you get to know her better.
OnlyJake Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Just curious, but why is texting in this situation strongly preferred to an e-mail or call. Honestly, we haven't really chatted on the phone - just a few e-mails and a few texts. In that sense, a call may seem a bit strange, but why text versus e-mail? Just trying to understand where you're coming from, as it could be valuable insight. I suppose there's nothing terrible about an email, I just think that given everything else it's too impersonal a form of communication. Don't get me wrong, texting isn't terribly personal either. However, in this situation I think a text is a step up from email - since you met online you've established email as the most base form of communication between you two. I see a text as progressing your communication to a slightly higher level - so you would come across as more interested if you texted her that you had a good time, rather than emailing her that you had a good time.
Author CaspianDreams Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 Fair enough - texting also goes right to the phone. My only issue with texting is that only very, very small amounts of info can be communicated (i.e. 140 characters), but maybe I don't want to say much more than that at this point. Anyhow, as mentioned, she was there about 5 minutes early - she hadn't ordered anything, although she had apparently just gotten a menu 1-2 minutes before I arrived. As for my response suggesting price range, well, we were ording glasses of wine, and they were all in hte $10-13 range, so my feedback wouldn't have really provided her with any info. So question, for a first online meeting, should I just put myself out there and really try to illustrate interest, even if I'm a bit more neutral? It sounds kind of like cheating, but I can definitely see where doing this would be advantagous for building chemistry and bolstering her interest level. I'm just trying to get a lay of the land. I have a line of attractive women that have contacted me off of Match, so I'm slowly pecking through the list. If this one falls through, there's the next one, so any lessons learned are great. The only problem with that situation is it makes it too easy to kind brush things off with a specific girl, as there more waiting in line.
OnlyJake Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Fair enough - texting also goes right to the phone. My only issue with texting is that only very, very small amounts of info can be communicated (i.e. 140 characters), but maybe I don't want to say much more than that at this point. That's the beauty of texting actually - keep it short, simple, to the point! Keeping it short and simple also sends the message that it's OK to communicate some things via text message, but that you don't want to have whole text conversations (annoying and a dating don't in my opinion). Anyhow, as mentioned, she was there about 5 minutes early - she hadn't ordered anything, although she had apparently just gotten a menu 1-2 minutes before I arrived. As for my response suggesting price range, well, we were ording glasses of wine, and they were all in hte $10-13 range, so my feedback wouldn't have really provided her with any info. That sucks - that's kind of an expensive first date for someone you met online. She definitely should've expected to pay for both of you in that case, since she suggested it. Although another option would be to make a counter offer - suggest that you meet at a particular bar for a drink (where there's a wide variety and a large price range), or another really fun and really cheap idea that's similar to what she suggested is counteroffering by inviting her to a brewery if there are any if your area. Usually there's a free tour, and then a tasting afterward. If it's a microbrewery the tasting is usually free; if it's a large brand (like Anheuser-Busch) they charge like $2 or $3 for a tasting (usually 2 or 3 large beers). They usually have free snacks too So question, for a first online meeting, should I just put myself out there and really try to illustrate interest, even if I'm a bit more neutral? It sounds kind of like cheating, but I can definitely see where doing this would be advantagous for building chemistry and bolstering her interest level. If you're online dating, your interest is (or should be) based on similar interests, goals, etc. and not chemistry (ie looks/attraction). So if you like what you see in her profile, and think that those things are things you like about her and that would make her a possible relationship interest, then yes, you should show her interest, and no it's not cheating.
Author CaspianDreams Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 "That sucks - that's kind of an expensive first date for someone you met online. She definitely should've expected to pay for both of you in that case, since she suggested it. " Yeah, it was definitely on the expensive side for a first online date, in particular given the fact that I'm an MBA student (hello $50K/yr tuition). I have no problem splitting that kind of bill, but it's a bit annoying given how much I knew about her. Usually it's more, meet up for coffee or a quick beer, at which point, I have no problem picking up the tab, but that total's usually in the $10ish range, not ~$35-40/person. Oh well - I'll try some sort of text later today - we'll see what happens. Worst case scenario is silence and the next girl steps up to the plate...at which point hopefully I've learned a bit, or at least brought myself a bit more up-to-speed, as I've been off the market for a while (think 3-4 year relationship).
Author CaspianDreams Posted January 14, 2010 Author Posted January 14, 2010 I'll be honest, I still haven't tried contacting this girl yet to see where things really stand. That said, though, as mentioned, we met online - should I read anything into the fact that she's still checking out my profile (today - after the date, and all the other messages in this thread)? It seems like a good sign, but maybe I'm reading too much into things - it's one of my sharpest skills...yeah me.
stamfordman Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 hmm. did both of you playfully touch each other's arms and/or legs when talking? Did you have full direct eye contact? Was she facing you when she was talking? Were her legs pointing to you when both of you were talking? Was the body language you were giving off mirrored by her? Was she laughing and smiling the whole time? Taking her home was a a good sign. If she didn't want to see you, chances are, she would not wanted you to know where she lived.
Author CaspianDreams Posted January 14, 2010 Author Posted January 14, 2010 (edited) No, not much touching, but lots eye contact, she was directly facing me, leaning way into the table, coyly flipping her hang, occasional lick of the lips, wanting to sample my wines - definitely some body language mirroring. I don't know if she was laughing all the time, but definitely some times, and there were definitely enough smiles. She seemed like she wanted to be there - as mentioned, she extended the date by ordering more drinks, etc. It was the oddball hug that threw me, but now she's still checking me out online...I'm confused. Edited January 14, 2010 by CaspianDreams
OnlyJake Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 I'll be honest, I still haven't tried contacting this girl yet to see where things really stand. That said, though, as mentioned, we met online - should I read anything into the fact that she's still checking out my profile (today - after the date, and all the other messages in this thread)? It seems like a good sign, but maybe I'm reading too much into things - it's one of my sharpest skills...yeah me. It seems like you're really on the fence about this girl if you haven't contacted her yet. If you're at least kind of interested in her, keep in mind that it's bad to let days go by with no contact following a date. If her interest level isn't really high (and she's well adjusted) she's going to write you off. It was the oddball hug that threw me, but now she's still checking me out online...I'm confused. I wouldn't read anything into her checking out your profile. She might be checking your profile to see if you've been online (maybe wondering why you haven't emailed or texted or called her following the date). She could also be re-reading your profile to try to decide if she really liked you, and/or if she feels your profile accurately portrays the person she met the other night for wine! Or checking out your photo or something. Maybe she's just showing her friends the guy she went out with. You seem really concerned with whether or not she's interested in you. Dude just make a move! You've let her make all the moves thus far, now it's your turn! Of course, if you're not interested in her, and her possibly being interested in you is just an ego thing, let it go. I also really don't think the hug was "oddball." It seems like you didn't do much to be clear about your interest in her before or during the date. She was in charge of the progression of things the entire time. She was probably unclear on how you felt about her and the date. So she gave you a friendly hug. There's nothing odd about that.
DustySaltus Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 I understand that you are a student but after the pursuing that she did you should've picked up the tab. You shouldn't go out on dates to a wine bar if you can't afford it...maybe take them to starbucks or something next time. She made A LOT of effort here and the fact that she accepted your ride home is huge or maybe she just didn't have any money left for a cab after paying for dinner. I wouldn't read anything into the kiss. She was probably just trying to make things easy for the both of you.
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