Dating a shy girl--- LONG POST

January 12, 2010

Hello everyone,

I’ve read these posts with great interest for a long time, and after seeing all of the wisdom and candor here, I find myself in desperate need of advice---I’m at my wits end and very worried that I will lose this woman that I really love and care about.

I'll keep the paragraphs short, but there is a lot to type (reader beware--lol).

I am nearly divorced after 13 years; the paperwork is going b4 the judge. I met this girl online and we became friends. She knew I was doing thru the divorce, and she shared about her life. We became friends, talked on Yahoo. When e began to talk on Yahoo every night, she seemed very needy-if I fell asleep or was slow responding or texting on the phone, she would contact me multiple times asking where I was, did I not wanna talk, etc.

I liked this, b/c IO myself and needy (I’m working on it, although in my basic nature I'm just a nice guy). The attention made me feel wanted, appreciated and good.

Eventually we hooked up at this one club, met for the first time, and had a great time. We also kissed that first time we met, and after the club went to my car and made out more.

This became our pattern: talk on Yahoo / text, meet at the club, finish in the car. She even told me that she loved me--very soon. I was in heaven! She’s beautiful, sexi and she was feelin me.

After a while, we began to talk at least twice a day--once before work and once after work. I began to really find comfort in this pattern.

She would always say that she missed me and that she was thinking abt me, but she would always deny that we were "in a relationship". I would tell her, "if i quacks and walks like a duck, baby"....we were "doing" the things that a couple does---so why say were not one?

Still, she said she wasn't sure if she wanted to be in a actual "relationship". And then one day she said she had decided that she wanted it to be official. Happy day!

Things went on, but I began to become fustrated. She would share the following points with me about her past / life:

1. She's very shy and not used to / good at expressing her feelings or thoughts

2. She has a 5 year old daughter who never met the father, so it's always been just her and her daughter alone--that's what she is used to.

3. Never been in a realtionship where the dude cared or wanted to really know her--it was almost always about her paying for everything or sex

4. Her dad treats her mom very controlling--she can't even leave the house without his permission. She grew up under that and is very afraid of being with a man like that or letting a man "take advanatge" of her or her daughter.

I try really hard to understand where she come from---b/c I am the opposite:

1. Very outgoing and openly affectionate

2. Heavy on the compliments and kind words

3. Down to spend as much time with someone as I can

Her daughter and family really like me, and we get along great together. She says that I’m the first guy she’s had sex with in four years. So I feel special about that.

But she’s so shy---I’m a very expressive person, and she isn’t. It is very frustrating. Fast forward to las Wednesday, me and her and her neice and her neice’s boyfriend are all hanging out. She’s normally quiet around me, and still was acting that way---but it SEEMED like she was paying him an a lot of attention. When they left, I asked her about it, and of course she denied flirting with him---how she couldn’t believe I went there---I was very upset, but eventually belived her answer. Fast forward to yesterday, there are a series of emails that go forth between me and her---here they are:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

ME: I'm working and doing my thing---how about urs

HER: Busy like It has been lately. I am sleepy lol whats new lmao. Anyways I got your email and its very nice and I appreciate it. like u say I am not trying to change you and im hoping your not trying to change me either but im so use to different things that I hope I can change some things I am willing to change certain ways but it takes time and I do feel sometimes that your pressuring me and and rushing me and I don’t like feeling that way and when that happens it holds me and pushes me away.

And with that little incident that happened on Wednesday didn’t help much so it really makes me think of things like wow if I go out with him and friends and my friends are talking to me is he going to burst out etc and I don’t want that to be the case cause I know you got your girl friends and u don’t see me acting that way yea sometimes it bothers but hey we both got friends and if we trust each other and respect each other then we know where we stand. But yea well talk more on Wednesday hopefully.

Let me ask you this why do you keep saying that u don’t hope I just get up and leave? I am going to be very honest with you and don’t take it in a bad way but here it goes or maybe I am understanding you the wrong way but if things don’t work out between us I wont get up and leave but you cant expect for us to be in a relationship if things aren’t working out. I can promise you that I will always be your friend no matter what happens but like I said if things don’t work out relationship wise then yea we would have to break up.

Im hoping it works out but you have to think both ways just like when you tell me promise me you will never leave me I cant promise you that because if things don’t work out then they don’t work out its part of life I will be your friend but as far as relationship wise then yes it will be over. And trust me ive been thinking that lately is this going to work hes expecting too many things and im not sure if I am ready for that I cant do certain things not yet and when you tell me things yea I feel bad because I cant be as open as you are to me I am trying but I have my barriers too and ive been alone all my life

I will keep saying it im use to it being me and my kid and its rough to change that in 5 months and when you tell me things and complain I will be very honest it drags me down and makes me think this will never work hes expecting too much and I cant give that to him so maybe hes better off by himself and us just being friends but I stick around I do have feelings for you I do love you and I don’t want to hurt you and that’s why I take my time.

But when I feel the pressure and complaints and comparisons etc that pushes me away and yes I know I don’t express my self much but im trying really am trying Ive always been that way and its going to take time for me to change that. So don’t compare me to other people don’t matter who it is im me and only me.

I don’t know I guess we shall talk about it on Wednesday and take it from there. Another thing I know you said if you could you would see me everyday well honestly I don’t like that that’s another thing I feel pressure on on that part I agree with your mom Im not the type of person to be with a man everyday I have things to do I have a child to take care of etc so please don’t take it in a bad way those are things that im used to

maybe I am sounding harsh again its not you its me if you notice we are 2 different people and that’s another thing you like to be home I don’t lol I like to go out yes ill stay home sometimes but trust me I don’t like it much . I don’t know just things that if we want this to work were going to have to adapt to it im sure things will change are we willing to be patient that’s a different story sometimes things don’t change it’s a process it takes time so like I said things were going to have to talk and see whats best for the both of us. Am I making sense? Lol I hope so--------------------------------------------------------------

I am very confused now and I don’t know what to do or how to proceed. I love her and want things to be ok—but I need wisdom.

Edited January 12, 2010 by ElQuebrado
HTML keeps showing in the post

January 12, 2010

Yeah... I actually suffered through reading that block of text out of curiosity.

Before anything else... she mentioned something about you comparing her to other people. Why is that necessary? I can see that as a legit complaint which might make most people uncomfortable, if not infuriated. Considering this, it's really hard to comment on everything else, but I'll try...

I'm also wondering why you're considering her to be needy. "BRB" came into existence for a reason. To me, it's sounds like you're the one in love with her. And, while she cares for you, she feels that you're looking for her to give more of herself than she either cares to give or feels ready to give at the moment.

Saying you'll never leave her... well... that's saying a lot.

As for the quiet with you and "flirting" with others... some of us are just more quiet around the ones we like. I tend to be the same way and send the "I like you" vibe to guys I'm not into when I'm simply being nice. The people I completely dislike (or whose interest I'm trying to discourage) seem to get the same vibe as the guys I'm really into, which is more along the lines of indifference.

Yes, even while dating guys I liked a ton, I have hidden my true feelings a couple of times behind a mask of indifference, as a means of not appearing to be as excited or as interested as I was in truth. However, considering the situation, it's really hard to say why she's still keeping you at a distance.

If you really want to make things work with her, try doing more to make her feel comfortable, and less telling her what you want her to do/be. It's hard for me to see the benefit of creating a formal relationship when one party won't let down the brick wall.

Edited January 12, 2010 by and.then.some

January 12, 2010

Thanks for replying---the comparison I made was between her and me and her neice and her neices man (who was the dude I felt she was being flirty with). They were all over each other--not nasty, but loving as a couple--she is not that way---hands together, back turned, etc. I told her once that I wish we could be ike them.

At first she was needy with me----if I fell alseep while talking on Yahoo or texting, she would make a big deal out of it---a few times i actually had to convince her that I was NOT leaving b/c i didnt wanna talk, but b/c I was tired. Again, not so much anymore.

You're flirting scenario is very eye-opening--thank you for that--never thought about that way. The reason I think she's hiding her true feelings behind a mask of indifference is b/c she's afraid to open up and be hurt.

I will take your advice---thanks.

January 12, 2010

Others will probably disagree but I'm going to go out on a limb and say she's on the fence about you two working out. Is there any chance she had recently broken up with somebody when you guys started talking? It seems like she was on the rebound and is over it or something. From the way you describe it, the dynamic of who loves who more has definitely shifted completely.

January 13, 2010

Thanks for your reply--be careful out there on that limb..lol. No--that was very perceptive, because she expresed in the email above that she had been wondering if we were gonna work out or not---she says she WANTS it to work out, but she's been wondering. She says that the last dude she was seeig was sometime in July, but it was nothing.

Here's an update:

She emailed me and told me she was feeling down, but instead of the huge long speech I would normally give her about how wonderful and all that she is, i simply told her to try not to feel down, and to let me know if I could cheer her up. She replied, "just continue to be here for me like you always are---I appreciate it". I ignored that remark but sent her a quote by Bob Marley that was applicable to our situation:

You may not be her first, her last, or her only
she loved before she may love again
But if she loves you now, what else matters?
She's not perfect, you aren't either,
and the two of you may never be perfect together
but if she can make you laugh, cause you to think twice,
and admit to being human and making mistakes,
hold onto her and give her the most you can.
She may not be thinking about you
every second of the day, but she will give you a part
of her that she knows you may use to break her heart.
So don't hurt her, don't change her, don't analyze
and don't expect more than she can give.
Smile when she makes you happy,
let her know when she makes you mad,
and miss her when she's nt there

She replied that it was very sweet, she liked it, and that she was going to print it and put it on her office at work tommorw.

And now begins the fun stuff.

She ended the email by saying, " Call me in a few if you want to....and I kow that u do..LOL!"

I didn't call her.

She called me about 20 min later, and said, "hey, why didn't you call me? You were supposed to call me...just kidding"

so we talked for a few, but I cut the cnvo shrt and said I had to go. She said, " Oh ok--I'll stop bugging you--i see you dn't wanna talk to me--Just kidding"

Then we texted the following:

her---It's packed in this nail shop

me--You gonna stay?

her--yea might as well, i'm already here

me--k

her--k, didn't mean to disturb you

me--send me a pic of ur nails--ur never distrubing me

her-nope, lol

me--lol

her--well c how i feel

me--fair enough

her--uve been giving me attitude-ur being a bad boy

me--wat? you want me to be ur bad boy? oohh kinky

An hour later, she sends me a pic of her nails. I said, "very nice"

she says, "gracias"

then she sends me another pic. I said "also nice"

she says, "also gracias".

So i'm gong to keep playing it low key tonight and see how she acts. Im glad that she noticed something is a bit off.

January 13, 2010

Well, I think you're doing the right thing. She's obviously fishing for validation and attention, and the more you give her, the less she'll think of you. Just live your life and don't supplicate to her.

January 13, 2010

She's obviously fishing for validation and attention, and the more you give her, the less she'll think of you

can u explain pls?

January 13, 2010

i think she does have feelings for you but things are what they are..quite honestly i wouldnt want to be with someone like her (i know you cant "know" how someone is from just one email but from what she desribed herself as, i think i have an idea)..she says she has a hard time opening up --> for me that equals BIG red flag...i want someone who is emotional and affectionate...i seriously think this would't work..they say opposites attract but in reality i find that hard to believe..maybe in the "passion" sennse they might..but if you want a companionate/serious relationship, you need someone who you can relate to. If you're an emotional person, you won't be happy with someone who is closed. If you want someone who can talk to you about their feelings and be more outgoing, you will feel frustrated when you have somoene whos the opposite. It is very hard to change people, can you change yourself? no. maybe certain habits BUT not who you are. I think the reason why you complain about her is because of your differences. Give it more time and see how things turn out, but........i don't know. good luck with everything!

January 13, 2010

Thanks for that---yes I am affectionate, communicative and somewhat emotional---but i c good in her. I'll definetly keep you posted.

January 13, 2010

She ended the email by saying, " Call me in a few if you want to....and I kow that u do..LOL!"

I didn't call her.

Well played, sir. I was going to say - based on the original post, that you are being a bit needy and needed to back off. Don't be constantly contacting her - keep her guessing. She obviously gets off on those games. A lot of women do. But pulling back like you're doing makes you more desirable. I understand the mentality even if I don't ascribe to it, myself (I'm female).

January 13, 2010

Well played, sir. I was going to say - based on the original post, that you are being a bit needy and needed to back off. Don't be constantly contacting her - keep her guessing. She obviously gets off on those games. A lot of women do. But pulling back like you're doing makes you more desirable. I understand the mentality even if I don't ascribe to it, myself (I'm female).

Thanks for that SS--i hate to play "the game"....and had i chosen someone else perhaps i wouldnt have to---but I willing to work to make this work---i only hope that I see some serious eveidence soon that she is too..

January 13, 2010

Thanks for that SS--i hate to play "the game"....and had i chosen someone else perhaps i wouldnt have to---but I willing to work to make this work---i only hope that I see some serious eveidence soon that she is too..

A word of advice... If you're not looking for games, don't play them. I'm willing to bet that she's not or at least is not purposefully playing games with you. If you were behaving one way and changed, I can see how that would give her pause. I don't believe that necessarily means she's trying to suck all of the attention out of you, and will some how desire you more and more and then actually "change" as a result of keeping her guessing.

I did this unintentionally with a guy who had a wall, and of course, after I disappeared (or tried to) is when he came running as hard and fast as he could after me. I wouldn't describe my behavior towards him as "needy" but honest, and as even as I could make it considering his behavior.

He was not ready to give me what I wanted. He wouldn't stop calling me, followed me around like a little puppy dog, and when I finally asked him what he wanted and gave him that opening... he totally missed it.

I don't mean that this one won't open up with you over time. But... if you're looking to make her open up and take down the wall, making her feel less secure in her position with you (without giving her any reasons as to why) is not going to create the proper environment for her to do so.

Do you want her to be closer and more affectionate towards you? Or do you want her to just chase after you, giving you the illusory upper hand?

Serious walls don't just come crumbling down over night. I can't say that it is there because of things she experienced in the past, the way she was raised, or her personality. Especially if she isn't acknowledging that anything needs to change, it might be awhile.

I say be honest with her, tell her how you feel, stay friends, and give it time. If you're going to distance yourself to some degree by not calling her every time she tells you to etc, while you may not want to be specific, let her know that you're not trying to invest too much of yourself at the moment and why. It just may give her something to think about...

Communication is important to me as well, and anyone with problems in that area would (and has) completely driven me up the wall, and it always ended with me walking away. If you have something to say, say it. If something is on your mind, let me know. I know that most people aren't this forward, but I am... and I show the same respect that I would expect to be given if the situation were in reverse. You know?

So she's been honest in letting you know how she feels like she's under too much pressure. Be honest in letting her know that you're going to step back a little bit, because you don't want to invest too much of yourself while she's not sure what she wants. If she takes this as her cue to RUN, then "game recognize game" and you know that she's only looking for validation, and will flee before she can be the one who is officially "dumped".

Once you start playing games with people, they lose that ability to know what to trust from you. Stay honest and don't be like those guys/girls...

Edited January 13, 2010 by and.then.some

January 13, 2010

Thank you so much for this feedback--there's alot here.

A word of advice... If you're not looking for games, don't play them. I'm willing to bet that she's not or at least is not purposefully playing games with you.

Indeed, I am NOT the game playing type---i know that we all have a short time here--I don't want to waste it playing games and manipulations---I just want to love, be loved, and enjoy that special person.

I did this unintentionally with a guy who had a wall, and of course, after I disappeared (or tried to) is when he came running as hard and fast as he could after me. I wouldn't describe my behavior towards him as "needy" but honest, and as even as I could make it considering his behavior.

Off-topic, but I'd like to hear more about this--have you posted this somewhere here?

He was not ready to give me what I wanted. He wouldn't stop calling me, followed me around like a little puppy dog, and when I finally asked him what he wanted and gave him that opening... he totally missed it.

She asked me once what I wanted, and I think I missed it too---b/c I was trying to be Mr. Understanding and Mr. Compassionate---come to find out, I think I would have made it worse---I know love involves comprimise--

Do you want her to be closer and more affectionate towards you? Or do you want her to just chase after you, giving you the illusory upper hand?

Great inquiry--no--I don't want her to "chase" me simply for my own validation---I truly want her to be closer and more affectionate towards me---I onlt wish I knew how to get there---I know its a process. She was teling me this morning how she was thinking about joining the gym after work to have something to do---and i was SCREAMING on the inside "HEY! You can hang out with ME!" But I didn't go there---that would be pressure---it might make her feel that she "has" to spend every waking moment with me---believe me, I would LOVE to spend as much time with her as possible---but I gotta respect how she is--independant and used to coming and going as she pleases. I guess that's the meaning of space.

Serious walls don't just come crumbling down over night. I can't say that it is there because of things she experienced in the past, the way she was raised, or her personality. Especially if she isn't acknowledging that anything needs to change, it might be awhile.

She has acknowledged that she is willing to change things---

I say be honest with her, tell her how you feel, stay friends, and give it time.

Definetly

Communication is important to me as well, and anyone with problems in that area would (and has) completely driven me up the wall, and it always ended with me walking away. If you have something to say, say it. If something is on your mind, let me know. I know that most people aren't this forward, but I am... and I show the same respect that I would expect to be given if the situation were in reverse. You know?

I am exactly the same way--she is the opposite of this--at first it did'nt matter much, b/c we weren't that invested--but I get attached very quickly--much to my detriment

Here is the email I wrote to her this morning:

I couldn't sleep last night, so I was up thinking. Hopefully we can hang for a bit tonight and talk like we had planned.

I have noticed that you don't call me bebe anymore and you don't send me besos. I won't try to analyze things anymore, so whatever the reason for this, if you want me to know i'm sure you'll tell me. I just wanted you to know that I noticed.

I care about you---I want this relationship to work out and become all that it can be. So I wanted you to know some descions I made. We can talk more about them (or not---that's up to you).

Things I am willing to adapt to and change:

1. As I mentioned, no analayzing you, no million questions. Whatever you want me to know about you, I trust that you will tell me in your own time, when you are ready.

2. I will try my best to schedule time and activities away from your house. I want to take you out as much as possible--and whenever we chill at ur crib, is whenever we do.

3. We've been together less than 6 months. I won't expect you to think and act like it's been 6 years. It's been 5 years since you were "with" anyone---I know that you are taking a chance with me that is both new and complicated for you. The only expectation I will have of you is that you be who you are, and love me the way you will love me.

4. Sex with you is important to me, but it is not a priority---it happens when and if it happens

5. I express my emotions and feelings and thoughts alot, and that's new for you in a guy. I won't overwhelm you with that.

6. You are a busy woman with a busy life. I am OK with your schedule and availablity. I trust that you will make time for me when you are able / want to.

Again, I love you very much, and I am willing to trust the process--

I'll keep you updated on this today---thanks again for so much feedback.

January 13, 2010

A word of advice... If you're not looking for games, don't play them. I'm willing to bet that she's not or at least is not purposefully playing games with you. If you were behaving one way and changed, I can see how that would give her pause. I don't believe that necessarily means she's trying to suck all of the attention out of you, and will some how desire you more and more and then actually "change" as a result of keeping her guessing.

I don't mean that this one won't open up with you over time. But... if you're looking to make her open up and take down the wall, making her feel less secure in her position with you (without giving her any reasons as to why) is not going to create the proper environment for her to do so.

Do you want her to be closer and more affectionate towards you? Or do you want her to just chase after you, giving you the illusory upper hand?

Once you start playing games with people, they lose that ability to know what to trust from you. Stay honest and don't be like those guys/girls...

Exactly. I'm one of those shy chicks who has a hard time opening up. Guys who play games and keep me guessing only push me further away. Deep down, shy people are pretty insecure and sometimes just need a little extra effort from the other person to feel comfortable enough to open up.

January 13, 2010

hey everyone---fantastic update

after I sent that email this morning, this is the reply I got:

[QOUTE]Hey

Well nice email. Well first of all I apologize for not answering your call last nite I did knock out and I didn’t hear the phone ring I am sorry I did not ignore your call like you said in the voice mail I didn’t but its up to you wether you want to believe me or not. Anyways yes we can hang out today but not sure if well be able to talk because my nephew will be there and he sleeps in the living room and I don’t need him to hear our conversation and go running and telling the family about us lol. so we can hang out but talk how we want to talk don’t think is a good idea for tonite for that reason.

I will tell you the reason why I stopped saying those things to you I have noticed you been different with me too. Your talking to me more like a friend/stranger lol so I didn’t know how to react and I didn’t want to offend you so I left it like that. but you know you’re my bebe.

Anyways wow so it was your turn to think things through. Look I don’t want you to think im this nut that doesn’t know what she wants and it’s a confused child etc. I do care for you and I do love you I just don’t know how to show these affections etc you know I did speak to you about that too. I guess we both have work to do if we want this to work.

I did want to also apologize for yesterday if I was rude to you in any way I was tired and ive been pmsing so you know how I feel and get when that happens and that wears we down maybe that’s why I was feeling so freaken tired. Trust me today I am cramping my boobs are killing me lol like u really need to know that lol. but that’s part of life I found my self crying a little while ago I hate the way this makes me feel and that drags me down but I have to learn to deal with it.

As far as the sex part man don’t think I am a boring person I love to be with you in that way also cause you make me feel like no other man has and your gentle and loving etc but like I said it just felt that way like all you were waiting for is my daughter to go to bed so we can do that and im sorry if I took that the wrong way but that’s how I felt.

I guess really what I need from you is time for me to get use to this no pushing no rushing just taking It one step at a time like we should’ve been doing and if were patient with each other and have an open and honest relationship I don’t c why it wouldn’t work.

Ok

My nephew has practice today so I should be home by 730 so I will call you when I get home. All I say and not to be rude you cant leave late cause he sleeps in the living room and I don’t want him to be up too late being that hes got finals.

Thanks

Love

*******

I feel like ive been given a second chance---i'm NOT gonna mess it up. Thank you thank you everyone who took the time to read all this and respond---i'll keep you all posted.

--El

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