Fallen Angel Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Ching, you dont have to defend yourself. alot of people here understand how you feel and sympathise. dont listen to the negativity, its totally unconstructive and not intended to help you. I agree!! And Ching, the same person who accuses you of being the cause of his drinking, thereby excusing it, will be the first to say that nothing THEY did contributed to their spouse cheating... gotta love the whole double standards. I can NOT be responsible for what MY spouse did, but YOU are responsible for what yours does? How does that work out? IT DOESN'T!! Hold your head up girl! Do what you have to do to be free, and find the happiness and love you deserve.
Angel1111 Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Here's how you do it. Just decide on a timeframe of when to talk to him. Find the moment when he's either when he's watching tv or otherwise not deeply occupied, and at home - and hopefully sober. You may want to have a friend there if you think he might get violent. Just say, "I need to talk to you about something. It's important." When you get his attention, say, "I think we both know this marriage isn't working out. I don't want to be in this relationship anymore so I'm moving out." There's no question that this is hard to do but it's a hurdle you must jump before you can move on. You've just got to bite the bullet. Be sure you have plans about what you're going to do after that - especially have a place lined up if you're the who will be moving out. As you know, when people like this get news they don't like, they are ultra-crazy and he'll go off, get drunk and come back to make your life a living hell if you're still at the house. I think it would be best if you have a place secured for yourself before you tell him.
eeyore1981 Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Thanks Malenfant. I understand - I really do - that wishing I was with someone else for 20 years is hardly going to improve my marriage. The EA had the opposite effect though - I was even more determined to make my marriage happy. In any case, he has always been a drinker - right from day one, but I was young and didn't get the full ramifications of the disease until years later when we had kids. A drunken escalation is horrible to go through. I doubt that they are triggered by anything I do (he goes to his parents, they wind him up and send him home with a few drinks in him). The escalations are always follow the same patterns and he rages about the same things every time. How the house is messy. How the dog sheds hair. Or whatever other excuse he can come up with. I have run around for years cleaning up so there is no reason for him to become upset but even when I think I have everything perfect, he can always find something that isn't right. This man gets upset when the little dog leaves footprints in the mulch in the front garden. Seriously. My question though was how to approach him ... and how much of what I think to keep to myself. I appreciate the advice to let him know that the alcohol has been a huge factor - he deserves to know this - and to be careful and safe during this time. I do wish that I had been strong and selfish enough to do this 20 years ago.... Girl, the stories I could tell... Oh, man, I hate that you feel the need to give him an explanation about anything. You say he deserves to know, but does he really? I'm not trying to be mean or heartless, I'm just saying after years of what you have gone through, and I have a pretty good idea what that is, isn't it time you put yourself first? Not in a petty way, but think about it. My H was a mean drunk, and it sounds like yours is, too. If you talk to him, explain to him, he's probably not going to have an epiphany. He's probably going to get angry and defensive. You HAVE to think of yourself and your safety. I don't care if he has never struck out at you physically before, it doesn't mean he won't ever. And if he does, he is going to feel righteous in doing it, and no telling how far it will go. If you have learned anything at all in the past 20 years, it should be there is no talking to and/or reasoning with a drunk. NONE. Please, please, get yourself gone first, leave him a long letter explaining to your heart's content, but do not put yourself in a potentially dangerous situation. Worst possible scenario if I'm wrong is his feelings are hurt and he thinks poorly of you, worst possible scenario if I'm right....? Go to a crime forum and read about all the women wanting a divorce who are now dead or missing. Be smart.
Angel1111 Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) Please, please, get yourself gone first, leave him a long letter explaining to your heart's content, but do not put yourself in a potentially dangerous situation. Worst possible scenario if I'm wrong is his feelings are hurt and he thinks poorly of you, worst possible scenario if I'm right....? Go to a crime forum and read about all the women wanting a divorce who are now dead or missing. Be smart. You know, you just reminded me that this is what my sister did when she left her 24-yr marriage. She waited until he went to work, left him a letter explaining that she was leaving him, and drove 1,000 away. She came back a few months later once he absorbed the facts. She didn't tell anyone what she was doing because she didn't want it to look like we were involved. I remember him calling me and asking if I had heard from her. I knew right then that something was wrong. Later that day, he told me he found the letter. Now that I think about it, this was a very effective way of dealing with a person that you just can't talk to. And I agree - you don't owe him any kind of explanation. He knows what he did. He's probably shocked that you've stayed this long. Edited January 12, 2010 by Angel1111
greengoddess Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Thanks Malenfant. I understand - I really do - that wishing I was with someone else for 20 years is hardly going to improve my marriage. The EA had the opposite effect though - I was even more determined to make my marriage happy. In any case, he has always been a drinker - right from day one, but I was young and didn't get the full ramifications of the disease until years later when we had kids. A drunken escalation is horrible to go through. I doubt that they are triggered by anything I do (he goes to his parents, they wind him up and send him home with a few drinks in him). The escalations are always follow the same patterns and he rages about the same things every time. How the house is messy. How the dog sheds hair. Or whatever other excuse he can come up with. I have run around for years cleaning up so there is no reason for him to become upset but even when I think I have everything perfect, he can always find something that isn't right. This man gets upset when the little dog leaves footprints in the mulch in the front garden. Seriously. My question though was how to approach him ... and how much of what I think to keep to myself. I appreciate the advice to let him know that the alcohol has been a huge factor - he deserves to know this - and to be careful and safe during this time. I do wish that I had been strong and selfish enough to do this 20 years ago.... Then why on earth are you looking for a nice way to do this? You posted in ow/om not divorce/separation, talked about a 20 year Ea and how to let him down easily. I don't get it. Treat him like he treated you and just walk. He doesn't deserve an explanation and if what you say is true he knows that.
confusedinkansas Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Oh my.... I didn't read every single post - mostly because after reading your initial post I felt like I was reading my own story. (Married many years, grown kids, drinking) I am SO sorry - I would not wish this life on anyone. I have BEEN THERE & DONE THAT.....for way too many years myself. Only advice I can give is what I did - & in my case (for the most part) it did help. After dealing with my husband coming home day after day slurring his words, forgetting his day, lying about his whereabouts, passing out on the sofa before 6:00pm (He's a daytime drinker) I bitched, I cried, I gave the silent treatment - Nothing worked! Until I finally got the balls to LEAVE. He knew I was unhappy. He choose to continue to drink. He may not have known I was at the breaking point - but the day I told him I had rented an apartment & was moving out - Weirdly enough, he did not flip out. He did not get angry. He went & drank. And he drank for the next 2 weeks continually until my moving day. FEAR of the unknown is the worst part of what you're going thru - I planned for a year to move. Saved money, rented an apartment on my own. Packed boxes & stored them in the basement. On moving day - I wasn't 100% sure that I was totally done with the marriage. I just needed peace. Peace & Quiet. I lived on my own for 14 months. We finally tried to work things out. I moved back home & things have been better..........Not GREAT - But better. Now - That's not to say that he doesn't drink now. He does & he has his days. But they are not an every day occurrance like before & he knows now, that if it starts again - I'm out! Gone! I've moved out once & that initial step to move out was so frightening I nearly had a breakdown - But I know now - I CAN DO IT! (& YOU CAN TOO) I'm a whimp - If I can move out so can you. Although, I don't know if it's your desire to try to work things out if his drinking stops. I had a counselor tell me (Many Years Ago) that my husband was the personality that needed to be "Shocked" into reality. She said "He won't believe you, because you've "cried wolf" so many times in the past." So, I finally took the advice & bailed. Sorry if this seems like a thread-jacking - I'm just trying to share my experience - Hope it helps. Good Luck to you & HUGS!
Angel1111 Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Oh my.... I didn't read every single post - mostly because after reading your initial post I felt like I was reading my own story. (Married many years, grown kids, drinking) Great advice. No thread jacking at all - totally insightful.
1Angel Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 He's an alcholic and you are codependant. Start living your own life. What do you want? Don't wait one more second to start living your life for you. Counseling, Al Anon- now is your time. Leave his sorry azz. How much longer are you willing to put your life on hold for him. He has proven he won't help himself.
Crazyforhim Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 My advice is like FA said, plan, plan, plan. Don't be impulsive in your actions or they will come back to bite you! If you're worried about having the courage to go through with it, I found that finding a place, signing the lease and putting the money down helped me to stick with the plan and gave me the courage to keep moving along. If you tell him face to face, admit to him that you're unhappy, he's unhappy and this relationship is just not working for you right now. If he wants reasons, just tell him it doesn't work for you. His asking for reasons opens the door for an opportunity for him to say he'll change and try to talk you out of it. Focus on you - sounds like you have focused on others for so long it is finally time for YOU to be happy!! ((HUGS)) - Keep reaching out if you need us!
fooled once Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 Do you have money set aside to leave with? Do you work? Do you fear for your safety once you tell him? I would ensure I had some money, if I didn't work, I would get a job, and I would tell my family that I was leaving him (so they would know maybe 1-2 days ahead of time) and where I was going so they wouldn't worry. And then I would tell him that the marriage isn't working, neither of you are happy and you both deserve happiness and you wanted a divorce. I would give him a cell number for you, tell him you will be in touch with regards to division of marital assets and then I would leave. Also, I would see an attorney NOW to find out what legal steps need to be taken to end the marriage. Go live in an apartment for a while. Don't go run to this new guy. Go be on your own, get your head on, get your divorce started and your healing starting. Good luck
fooled once Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 Sorry, just read that you have a good job. Good - start having your checks deposited into a bank account that is just yours. Also - I want to say - Al-Anon isn't just for spouses who are staying in their marriage. Al-Anon is very helpful to MANY who are coming out of a relationship where drinking was a factor in a divorce. It can also help a person figure out why they were co-dependent and 'supported' someone drinking (I don't mean financially) so to the poster who immediately POO POO'd the suggestion that she doesn't "need" Al-Anon because she is leaving him, that isn't always the case. This man will always be in her life as he is the father of their children. Al-Anon will help her and her kids learn to deal with him. The kids should be going to Al-Anon too, and if mom is going, it might help the kids to go.
Fallen Angel Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 I agree 100% with Fooled about the fact that you should seek legal counsel right away. I didn't and because of that, after I left my now ex-H opened numerous credit cards jointly with me after our split. As I had nothing legal as to the date of our split, the bills he ran up became part of the 'maritial debt' and now since the debt was split in the divorce, I am left owing almost $20,000 for items he bought AFTER I was long gone. Protect yourself, you do not have to file the divorce right away, but your state might require a legal separation and/or a long (sometimes up to a year) separation before divorce will even be considered. If you file for that paperwork right away, you are protecting yourself financially, and will help to make your divorce possible more quickly.
Author Chingaling Posted January 16, 2010 Author Posted January 16, 2010 Seriously, how did you guys know I could really use little whispers of encouragement to stay strong tonight of all nights? Last night we had our little talk. I tried to be as gentle but firm as I could, and explained that I have been quiet because I have been contemplating our relationship, and since neither of us is happy and it (he) is not likely to change, that I felt it was time for me to go. He was defensive at first, and then took all the blame. I had to explain that it took two of us to get where we are, and that I didn't want to argue or fight, but work things out between us so that each of us can be happier. There were tears. He said he knew it was coming but didn't know how to stop it. He gave me a huge hug, and said that he was going out for drive for a bit to think, and left. About two hours later he was back. He pulled in the same time as the kids (who are young adults). They stayed outside with him for a half hour or so while he talked, and comforted him. They also encouraged him to let me go... they know that this has been going on for so long. By the time he came in, he wasn't angry or upset - he joked with our one daughter while getting his clothes ready for the morning. We actually went to bed - together - and this morning he made my lunch for me. Tonight - he is not home from work yet, and it is 9 o'clock. I am thinking that he probably hooked up with one or two of the guys he works with - the one guy's wife left him almost a year ago for a fella she worked with, and so my husband may be able to talk to him. I'm not sure what the night will bring... last night may have been the calm before the storm. I have done a LOT of thinking this last while, and read everyone's comments and advice. I hope that our one daughter and I can stay here in the house for a while until we figure out what to do... if not, I have enough aside to rent a place for a while, and if I really had to, I think I could borrow enough to pay him out of the house - which would be a short term thing, but possible. I work in a law office - so the attorney thing is pretty much old hat. That part doesn't scare me fortunately. I am more fearful of the shock wearing off and anger setting in. I hope not... I have purposely kept my contact with my good friend down to a minimum. I don't want that to influence what I need to do for me. Time to put on the big-girl panties now and deal with our situation. So for now, that's where I am. If I didn't say so before, I want to say now thankyou to all of you who posted your encouragement to stay strong. It's hard as you all know not to waiver. Ching
Crazyforhim Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 ((HUGS)) So proud of you and your courage. Hang in there, it may get worse before it gets better, but once you start living for you and your own happiness, you will be glad of the choice you made!
Author Chingaling Posted January 16, 2010 Author Posted January 16, 2010 ((HUGS)) So proud of you and your courage. Hang in there, it may get worse before it gets better, but once you start living for you and your own happiness, you will be glad of the choice you made! Thank you sweetie for your support... I have a feeling that I will be back for more. It's a very difficult thing to do when not said in anger.
Angel1111 Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 Wow, the pain of letting go, putting an ending to things. It's heartwrenching, isn't it? But it's a hurdle to get over before you can move on. I think you handled things very well and, yes, this could be the calm before the storm. But at the end of the day, it seems like he's going to be reasonable. It just depends on which road he chooses to go down at this point. I'm sure this is a big load off your shoulders. Now you can breath new air and visualize a new life for yourself. Keep in touch!
Author Chingaling Posted January 16, 2010 Author Posted January 16, 2010 Wow, the pain of letting go, putting an ending to things. It's heartwrenching, isn't it? But it's a hurdle to get over before you can move on. I think you handled things very well and, yes, this could be the calm before the storm. But at the end of the day, it seems like he's going to be reasonable. It just depends on which road he chooses to go down at this point. I'm sure this is a big load off your shoulders. Now you can breath new air and visualize a new life for yourself. Keep in touch! It's the morning... Very odd. Husband got back last night at a decent time, pretty much sober and in a pretty good mood. We hung out with the kids for a bit and then I got ready for bed. He came in, tucked me in, gave me a big kiss on my forehead and told me he loved me. He must have stayed up a bit watching TV, but part way thru the night I realized that he had come to bed. We have a small house, and with youngest moving back home temporarily there is no other place to sleep except for the couch... This morning he is fine... like nothing happened. Hmmmmm. Is he perhaps trying to show me that he can change? I know for a fact that he doesn't have the wherewithall to make his own plans, so the plan must be to placate me until I let it go. Or still the calm before the storm?
Devil Inside Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 This morning he is fine... like nothing happened. Hmmmmm. Is he perhaps trying to show me that he can change? I know for a fact that he doesn't have the wherewithall to make his own plans, so the plan must be to placate me until I let it go. Or still the calm before the storm? You are surprised by his behavior and think that he has ulterior motives.
Author Chingaling Posted January 16, 2010 Author Posted January 16, 2010 You are surprised by his behavior and think that he has ulterior motives. Gosh, Devil - I am surprised that I didn't get a huge argument blow up when we first talked, but then again he did see it coming. If he has an ulterior motive it is likely to "kill me with kindness". He seriously isn't capable of formulating any other type of plan. I do know that he loves me a lot and has always been very confident that we will be together forever... Of course, what is on a drunk man's tongue is on a sober man's mind, so I will probably find out later tonight or soon enough what he is really thinking... I am not complaining about his reaction so far - just waiting for the other shoe to fall.
Devil Inside Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 Where do you think he is with accepting that you two are over?
Fallen Angel Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 Mine used to do that all the time, he would act like I had never said anything, and try to be especially loving and considerate for a day or three, then right back to the same thing... he figured I had said it, but hadn't made a move, so I didn't mean it.. for a long time he was right.. when i finally did make my move, it was world war three...
Angel1111 Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 This morning he is fine... like nothing happened. Hmmmmm. Is he perhaps trying to show me that he can change? I know for a fact that he doesn't have the wherewithall to make his own plans, so the plan must be to placate me until I let it go. Or still the calm before the storm? You're right to feel cautiously optimistic about his behavior. When I told my husband that I wanted divorce, we talked that night about it, but the next morning, he started talking about things we would do in the future - vacations, etc. - and I said, "Uh, didn't we talk last night?" and he said, "Yeah, but I didn't think that was the end of it." Huh? I told him that that was pretty much the end of it. Based on about two yrs of discussions before this event, he had plenty of opportunities to change his behavior and save our marriage. I saw the 'morning after' conversation as just another way of negating everything I said, which was typical of his usual disrespect toward me. Either your husband is in shock, or he's waiting to see if you'll follow through with your words, or he's just as relieved as you are to know that this dysfunctional relationship is over. It's hard to say but, for the most part, men don't usually handle change very well, they don't handle parting with their money or home well, and they don't handle divorce very well in general. Just be wary and continue on with your plans.
Fallen Angel Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 You're right to feel cautiously optimistic about his behavior. When I told my husband that I wanted divorce, we talked that night about it, but the next morning, he started talking about things we would do in the future - vacations, etc. - and I said, "Uh, didn't we talk last night?" and he said, "Yeah, but I didn't think that was the end of it." Huh? I told him that that was pretty much the end of it. Based on about two yrs of discussions before this event, he had plenty of opportunities to change his behavior and save our marriage. I saw the 'morning after' conversation as just another way of negating everything I said, which was typical of his usual disrespect toward me. Either your husband is in shock, or he's waiting to see if you'll follow through with your words, or he's just as relieved as you are to know that this dysfunctional relationship is over. It's hard to say but, for the most part, men don't usually handle change very well, they don't handle parting with their money or home well, and they don't handle divorce very well in general. Just be wary and continue on with your plans. Thumbs up to what she said, that is exactly it.. he has had time, lots of it... I am sure this is not the first time he has known you were unhappy... but he figures if he shows you he can be different for at least a few days, that you will keep with the status quo.. he won't really believe you mean it until he sees you DO something about it.. women believe in the spoken word as fact, men only beleive in action as fact.
Author Chingaling Posted January 16, 2010 Author Posted January 16, 2010 Where do you think he is with accepting that you two are over? I dunno! Denial? Avoidance? I don't get it.... I was pretty clear, and he acknowledged that I was serious and that my mind was made up. I did say that we would work out together what we are going to do with the house, vehicles, etc. so maybe he is content with that? He just came back in from dropping daughter off at work and took my vehicle for a fill-up since gas is down a bit. Has anyone ever had a reaction like this before? I know that he is not malicious... is it possible that he is trying to retain his family (i.e. the kids) by not being an *sshole?
Angel1111 Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 ...men only beleive in action as fact. Amen, sis-ta.
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