Best approach for parents to take.....

[lowblow]

My wife and I have been married 25 years and raised two children. We’ve been through very trying times financially amongst other family problems which has tested our marriage 100’s of times but our union endured. Our eldest son moved out at 19 against our wishes in search of freedom and subsequently dropped out of college in the 3rd year even though we paid for tuition and offered assistance and soon shacked up with an older woman with no family ties and no steady employment and got her pregnant. They insist on having the baby while both are unemployed.

 

We are decent working class people trying to see the other teen through college. We can’t seem to cope with the shock of the news, the shame and the disaster in the offing. We’ve put the house on sale and just want to get out of here. My wife is an emotionally weak, highly family oriented and I on the other hand am a military guy, trained to kill and move on to the next target and show no remorse. In my world, people have to pay for their actions/mistakes and must be taught a lesson. In other words, he must be punished with no assistance whatsoever. My wife on the other hand would be totally willing to house them and give them a free ride as long as we are alive. That thought alone begins to kills me very slowly and painfully.

 

I can’t seem to forgive my son for what he’s gotten himself into and I have absolutely no respect for the mature woman who put herself in such a vulnerable situation. They have decided to bring an innocent life into being when they just don’t have the means and the capacity to endure.

 

I’m here to ask you folks to share your thoughts and help us cope and choose the right path to take. Also help us understand what drives children to do this.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read our problem.

Edited January 12, 2010 by lowblow
Formatting error

[quankanne]

you can't forgive your child, or you refuse to forgive him for flexing his wings?

 

I agree that he's a dumbass for some of the short-sighted decisions he's made, but the thing is, at 20-something, he's a grown up, LB, and you've got to keep that first and foremost in your mind. If he's screwed up, then it's up to him to find a way to make amends or make things work.

 

YOUR role is to encourage him to think of all the options in front of him when it comes to his relationship and your grandchild. I won't guarantee you'll like what he decides, but you for the sake of your sanity, you've got to let him be his own man now, especially since he's a father himself. He will never grow up to be the strong man you want him to be if you continue to treat him like a bad kid for not doing things how you and your wife want. He's a grown up, and you need to respect that.

 

I'd also advise you and your wife to sit down and talk through how you're going to respond to his needs from here on out, on responses you BOTH can live with – nothing too harsh or too lenient, but somewhere in the middle. Most of all, your son needs to know that no matter what boneheaded things he may do, and no matter how that might piss y'all off, the bottom line is that you love him.

 

no, I don't have kids of my own, but I've been mediator plenty of times for my sister and her daughter when they were going through their bad patch. One thing I realized was that because they were so intent on finding fault, they didn't look for common ground in their love for each other, and that's what made all their trials so hurtful.

 

look past your anger and disappointment and try to find a workable solution in how you treat your son. Because he's still going to look to you to model the way it is to be a good dad, you know?

 

hugs to you and your wife,

q

[lowblow]

 

look past your anger and disappointment and try to find a workable solution in how you treat your son. Because he's still going to look to you to model the way it is to be a good dad, you know?

 

q

 

Thats a powerful thought process, quankanne. Thank you.

 

I sure want to connect with the guy but he keeps doing the dumbest things ever. I care about the guy but I'm afraid that I just might reinforce or inadvertently send the message that I accept his actions. My wife and I are planning an early retirement and this is what we get . I'm also afraid that if we allow him to come home with his lady friend, that we might crack (especially my wife - thats mama's boy) and end up letting them move in with us. I've heard that grandchildren do weird s*** to grandparents. I also wonder what kind of message it will send our daughter who is working hard to complete university.

[Clep]

I understand how difficult it is to see your child living a path that you see to be a dead end road. My daughter who is twenty has done the same. I have confidence that the lessons learned earlier in life will carry her through this trying time. It is my job now to share with her that I love her regardless of her choices in life. I do not have to pick up the pieces for her because if I do I rob her of the valuable lesson to be able to pick up her own pieces. I believe my parenting has provided her the tools to get back on track.

 

I believe it is important to remember his life is his own now. Your parenting time is over now and the dynamics of the relationship needs to change.

 

The shame you speak of shows me you judge your son for his actions which you have no right to do. No person has the right to judge another. Also what makes you think that you have the right to punish another adult or another person!!!

 

I would read the book "Toxic parents" for starters, learn to be less controlling and for your wife to learn how to stop enabling your son's poor choices. I would also remember, the behaviors you exhibit are the behaviors you are modeling for your grandchild and your son. He is a dad now and you have the ability to show him what a supportive dad looks like.

 

And as far as the mature woman it is important that she receives premium respect, she is your son's choice and the mother of your grandchild.

 

I tend to concentrate on the positive side of things, it usually makes things easier. Oh and I also remember what I actually have control over and what I don't. That reminds me to put my energies in a place that can actually make a difference.

[quankanne]

I sure want to connect with the guy but he keeps doing the dumbest things ever. I care about the guy but I'm afraid that I just might reinforce or inadvertently send the message that I accept his actions. My wife and I are planning an early retirement and this is what we get. I'm also afraid that if we allow him to come home with his lady friend, that we might crack (especially my wife - thats mama's boy) and end up letting them move in with us. I've heard that grandchildren do weird s*** to grandparents. I also wonder what kind of message it will send our daughter who is working hard to complete university.

 

unfortunately, what might be a learning process for one person is torture for the ones who love him/her. At which point, I think it's smart to move past the hurt/pain and plan accordingly. There's a way to let him know that while you love him, you don't necessarily approve of some of the actions he's chosen – which is why it's so important that you and your wife present a united front.

 

my guess is that if your girl has her head screwed on straight, she's going to see that you don't waste time screwing up, but doing things smartly in order to reach your goal. Again, if she is secure in knowing that you love her regardless of whatever bonehead thing she might come up with, she will see that despite being angry over what her brother is doing, there's still room for making things work out for the best.

 

what's it called in the military, strategic planning? I think this is what you and the family need to focus on so that you can manuever smartly through the situation without anyone getting unneccesarily hurt.

 

I don't envy you this situation, but I think if you keep yourself open to the options, you'll find a workable solution.

 

have to smile about the "weird shxt" comment – from what I've seen with my sister (the one with the head-butting daughter), it's pretty much a true statement, but not to the point where it's bad, but more along the lines of grandkids give you a whole other perspective on things that you've never had before. And they give you something incredible in that they're little people you can love wholeheartedly without having to worry so much about being fully responsible for their needs. It's different, but it's all good, from what I'm told

[Ronni_W]

I sure want to connect with the guy but he keeps doing the dumbest things ever. I care about the guy but I'm afraid that I just might reinforce or inadvertently send the message that I accept his actions.

Hi lowblow.

I've also struggled with the conundrum that asks: "When am I forgiving, when am I condoning, when am I accepting, and when am I just acting like a giant doormat???" It can be a moral dilemma, can it not?

 

I've recently come across a couple of books that have helped me tremendously:

1. How Good Do We Have to Be? by Harold Kushner. Contains an excellent chapter entitled 'Fathers and Sons, Mothers and Daughters'.

2. Forgive for Love by Fred Luskin. This one is more geared to primary relationships but lots that can be adapted to any type of relationship.

 

'How Good' is on sale for two US bucks, at BookCloseOuts.com (I'm planning on ordering a dozen more!), and 'Forgive for Love' is $5 from same source. Or the library might have them, too. Both are easy reads.

 

 

I could offer a personal take on how difficult it must be for a boy-son-man to even try to please such a father as you are portraying yourself. I could offer how it might feel like an impossible task to ever please him enough to gain his love, respect and admiration...

But I won't do that.

 

Instead, I'd really encourage you to read 'How Good' -- to help you cope, yes...but also for your son's and your future grandchild's sakes.

 

Wishing all of you all the best.

[lowblow]

Thank you for your very logical thoughts and advice. I have mellowed over the last 24 hours and your suggestions have helped tremendously to see something my ego wouldn't let me see. I've discussed this with a friend as well who also knocked some sense into me. My wife and I have not discussed this yet but I will do so soon.

 

I initiated contacted with Mr. Dumb Ass telling him we need to chat again. I have now decided to support him and be there for him which is totally opposite to what I told him before my original post. Like some of you'll and my friend suggested, its the best thing to do in the interest of family. I'd rather him be a young father than be an alcoholic, drug addict or drug dealer to make ends meet. He still has promise and without me, less so. So, I'm going to be right there behind him kicking his ass along the way and see him through this difficulty.

 

I'm coming around slowly and I'm trying hard to put my ego on a south bound train so I can do whats right for my family instead of what feels good for my ego.

 

Keep your thoughts coming as they are certainly breaking the brick wall that surrounds me.

Edited January 13, 2010 by lowblow
for clarity

[Ronni_W]

It's wonderful that you are opening your mind to some new ideas...and even more wonderful that you are willing to open your heart

So, I'm going to be right there behind him kicking his ass along the way

Quite honestly? I'm kinda thinking that he does NOT need you to deliver any more "low blows" to his already well-battered psyche and heart! What are your thoughts?

 

Rather than "kicking ass", some other words that are coming to mind are: guiding, supporting, encouraging, sharing, suggesting, recommending, offering the benefit of your wisdom and experience kindly and lovingly...

 

In truth, he will reach his full potential with or without you -- but it might turn out that his actual full potential does not match up with your idealized version. (And it would then be on you to change yours...but you already knew that, yes? )

[quankanne]

oh, these military men seem to like those graphic phrases a lot better to describe stuff. I dealt with my daddy AND my husband, so it doesn't mean anything other than a determination to get things done.

 

given that the boy was raised in a military household ... well, he'll understand what Dad means, and that it's not necessarily a negative phrase!

 

LB, I'm VERY proud of you for opening up yourself to alternate ways of dealing with the matter. And I'm guessing that your wife will be more willing to meet you half-way because she won't feel like she's your polar opposite when it comes to y'alls son.

 

when it comes down to it, I think your son is going to be really impressed with how much you love and support him even when you don't necessarily agree with him, and that's going to go a much longer way than you can ever imagine.

[Angel1111]

While we'd all like for our kids to make all the right decisions, it's just not going to happen all the time. But, the thing is, your son is basically an adult and his actions are his. I'm sure he will one day understand the consequences of his actions - probably when a baby is squawking in the middle of the night and he can't get any sleep - but why does that matter to you or your wife? If my son did this kind of thing, I wouldn't be happy about it but I would let him live his life and figure it out the best way he knows how.

 

At 19, he is capable of making his own decisions. Yes, he should have the sense to finish college and all that but I get the sense that he is anxious to leave your home and make a life for himself. Just let him. Love him for his choices. It's not like he went out and murdered someone. Yeah, I'm sure he'll see this as a mistake someday but, as his family, you guys should be there for him. And I don't mean helping him out financially - just be there in the sense that you still love him and he's always welcome to visit you. I don't get this whole "sell your house and go away" thing. This isn't the Victorian age. People do dumb things and nobody's really shocked about that anymore. If people ask about him, say something like, "Yeah, he's just doing things the hard way, unfortunately." It's not about you. It's about him. Let him live his life.

[Angel1111]

Thats a powerful thought process, quankanne. Thank you.

 

I sure want to connect with the guy but he keeps doing the dumbest things ever. I care about the guy but I'm afraid that I just might reinforce or inadvertently send the message that I accept his actions. My wife and I are planning an early retirement and this is what we get . I'm also afraid that if we allow him to come home with his lady friend, that we might crack (especially my wife - thats mama's boy) and end up letting them move in with us. I've heard that grandchildren do weird s*** to grandparents. I also wonder what kind of message it will send our daughter who is working hard to complete university.

 

All you have to do is tell your son that you don't approve of his choices but you accept that it's the choice he made. There. Done. He will never labor under the delusion that you like what he did, but he gets to learn that his dad loves him anyway.

 

So, what the heck does your retirement have to do with him? I must be missing something. You know, I made it clear to my son that when he became an adult, he's on his own. That's not to say I wouldn't help him if he needed it and I could help him, but I can tell you that if he got an older woman pregnant and expected to live with me, he'd be in for a very rude awakening. It's not an automatic right of children to drain their parents of money, and to continue living with their parents once they've made the decision to act as an adult.

 

As far as your daughter is concerned, she's probably sitting back watching all of this and thinking about how she's not going to make the same mistakes as her brother.

[Angel1111]

I understand how difficult it is to see your child living a path that you see to be a dead end road. My daughter who is twenty has done the same. I have confidence that the lessons learned earlier in life will carry her through this trying time. It is my job now to share with her that I love her regardless of her choices in life. I do not have to pick up the pieces for her because if I do I rob her of the valuable lesson to be able to pick up her own pieces. I believe my parenting has provided her the tools to get back on track.

 

I believe it is important to remember his life is his own now. Your parenting time is over now and the dynamics of the relationship needs to change.

 

The shame you speak of shows me you judge your son for his actions which you have no right to do. No person has the right to judge another. Also what makes you think that you have the right to punish another adult or another person!!!

 

I would read the book "Toxic parents" for starters, learn to be less controlling and for your wife to learn how to stop enabling your son's poor choices. I would also remember, the behaviors you exhibit are the behaviors you are modeling for your grandchild and your son. He is a dad now and you have the ability to show him what a supportive dad looks like.

 

And as far as the mature woman it is important that she receives premium respect, she is your son's choice and the mother of your grandchild.

 

I tend to concentrate on the positive side of things, it usually makes things easier. Oh and I also remember what I actually have control over and what I don't. That reminds me to put my energies in a place that can actually make a difference.

 

Well said!

[Angel1111]

So, I'm going to be right there behind him kicking his ass along the way and see him through this difficulty.

 

You know what? If your son wants to eat, he'll find a job. If he wants a roof over his head, or wants to support his gf and baby, he'll figure it out. At some point in time when you weren't looking, your son grew up and he is his now his own person. Respect him for that, at least.

[Eve]

I hear that having Grandkids is WAY better than having your own kids.. I seriously cant wait to have some. Well, I would like at least 5.

 

I dont have much else to say other than to listen to your son, truly listen and share. Thats all that is necessary. He has to make his own way now and needs you more than ever.

 

Make sure that you and the wife are in agreement on things as far as possible. Dont let this situation define your relationship... you have both come too far for that.

 

Damn kids..

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[2sure]

Life happens. Mistakes are made when we are young and can affect the rest of our lives, other people, our outlook, our way of life, etc.

 

Mistakes, lessons, regret, acceptance etc. are ultimately what we are all made up of.

 

Your son is young and made a big one - although certainly not an uncommon one. Its HIS mistake, his lesson, his life experience.

While I'm certain you had higher expectations of him and taught him better...you cant take this so personally. Easier said than done I know but again...this is HIS lesson/experience. So, forgiving him or not should not be made so very relevant. I mean, whats that going to get you? Or him?

 

As a mother, and one who has not yet walked in your shoes...I guess I would hope for some kind of compromise between supporting them and being supportive.

[Eve]

.. Anyhow, why are you putting the family home up for sale? Is this linked to the current situation? If so, how?

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[Clep]

.. Anyhow, why are you putting the family home up for sale? Is this linked to the current situation? If so, how?

 

 

I was wondering the same thing. From what I read it has to do with running away from the shame the son's choices have brought to the family?

[lowblow]

I could offer a personal take on how difficult it must be for a boy-son-man to even try to please such a father as you are portraying yourself. I could offer how it might feel like an impossible task to ever please him enough to gain his love, respect and admiration...

 

But I won't do that.

 

 

Ronni_W, please dont hold back. Say what you have to. You will not hurt my feelings. I need whatever it takes to come out of this a better father than I have been thus far.

 

I haven't discussed this even with two of my best friends as I'm somewhat ashamed of the situation. You guys have offered nothing but awesome advise and support. I'm a better parent today than I was on Sunday due to some of your solid responses and the actions I've taken as a result. So, say what you have to so I can attempt to take corrective action now, rather than never.

 

Thank you in advance.

[Lizzie60]

This has got to be the most difficult decision... to support or to use 'tough love'... I know exactly how you feel... I am also struggling with my son...

 

I had 2 children.. and they are complete opposite. I feel sorry for him.. and I just can't (at this point) bring myself to stop supporting him... (or use tough love)...

 

It is soooo hard ... to see them ruining their lives... I just hope that one day he'll wake up and realize that he needs to take control of his life..

[lowblow]

Quite honestly? I'm kinda thinking that he does NOT need you to deliver any more "low blows" to his already well-battered psyche and heart! What are your thoughts?

 

Just curious, what makes you say his psyche and heart are well battered? I've been tough on my kids but with the intention of making them strong and upstanding citizens. I think over all, I may have ruined their childhood as a result but they are excellent kids except for the situation he is in. Yet, it was his own decision to accept responsibility, marry the lady and deal with the consequences. My worry is that he's only know her for 5 months.

 

Rather than "kicking ass", some other words that are coming to mind are: guiding, supporting, encouraging, sharing, suggesting, recommending, offering the benefit of your wisdom and experience kindly and lovingly...

 

Thats extremely hard for a guy like me to do but I'm getting better at it and I only have two days experience, thus far. Thanks to some of the members here.

 

In truth, he will reach his full potential with or without you -- but it might turn out that his actual full potential does not match up with your idealized version. (And it would then be on you to change yours...but you already knew that, yes? )

 

Yes. I do now.

[lowblow]

So, what the heck does your retirement have to do with him? I must be missing something.

 

We bought a beach house last year to which we (wife and I) were planning to retreat in a few years. Its a 5 hour drive from where we currently reside. With the son's development, my wife would kill to be with him, 24/7. So, its solitary confinement for me.

[Angel1111]

We bought a beach house last year to which we (wife and I) were planning to retreat in a few years. Its a 5 hour drive from where we currently reside. With the son's development, my wife would kill to be with him, 24/7. So, its solitary confinement for me.

 

I see. Well, maybe you can go there part of the year, say during a season that you don't like where you currently live? I can understand wanting to be near the kids but you don't have to do that all year, right? I know lots of people who live in the north and go to Arizona for the winter months. I've always thought it would be cool to be able to live in two different places throughout the year. I mean, you and your wife had to always realize that at some point in time you were going to have grandchildren, didn't you? How did that figure in? Maybe it's happening sooner than you expected but maybe that's a good thing, before you sell your house. If your house is too big now, then sell it and downsize. But whatever you do, keep your beach house.

 

Btw, I'm glad you're being open-minded about all of this. I know it's a tough situation. I think you and your wife are going to need to come up with a solution where each of you feel valued. This is not all about the kids, nor should it be.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Angel1111

[lowblow]

.. Anyhow, why are you putting the family home up for sale? Is this linked to the current situation? If so, how?

 

We would have done it anyway, however a few years from now but we fast tracked it due to the current situation. We live in a small, tight knit community where our neighbours have been around even before our kids were born. Everyone knows everybody. All our neighbours kids are in University and 2 have applied to Medical College. I don't want to deal with the shame or blame coming out of this. I wonder if we'd be blamed for bad parenting, so I just want to get out now and start again somewhere else. You know, the ostrich syndrome; "run and hide head in sand".

[lowblow]

........you and your wife had to always realize that at some point in time you were going to have grandchildren, didn't you? How did that figure in? Maybe it's happening sooner than you expected but maybe that's a good thing.....

 

Oh god. That thought alone kills me. We both turn 50 this year and we are going to be grandparents the same year . My crazy friends will drive me to kill myself.

[Angel1111]

Oh god. That thought alone kills me. We both turn 50 this year and we are going to be grandparents the same year . My crazy friends will drive me to kill myself.

 

When you have kids at a young age, that's what happens. When we were young, some of us probably actually had grandparents who were around 50 but, to kids, this is really old. Nowdays, 50 is nothing. We don't even look like people used to look at 50. My sister had a grandkid at 48 because she was about 20 when she had her son. She loves her grandkids but continues on with her life as she pleases. Grandkids don't mean you're tied down.

 

And stop worrying about what people think and stop comparing everything to the other people around you. It's not a competition. Do what you want to do because you want to do it. Every parent with half a brain knows that no matter how you raise your kids, they have their own minds. You cannot make them do what they don't want to do. If people want to be judgemental about that, then so be it.