I forgot to add this...

[I Miss the Kiss]

RE: My post below and my update...

 

I do know (confirmed by his W) that xMM has told her he will NOT go back to counseling. They were in it before, separately but with the same counselor (which I thought was odd). About a month ago, after he had "decided to be with me", he quit counseling because he no longer wanted to pay the $$$ when he had already made his "decision" to be with me, and he also didn't feel like his counselor was truly there to help HIM.

 

Anyway, I'm curious what you all think about this. He has told his W he is staying to try to work on their M, I'm sure kissing her a$$ in every other way, yet he refuses more counseling. How do you think that will work for them?

 

Yes, it is morbid curiousity. I admit that. Please remember I am still hurting deeply and trying to understand how I let this happen, as well as to understand what happened within him. I'm a bit of am armchair psychiatrist that way... LOL

[Hazyhead]

I'm sorry you're hurting IMTK, I know how hard it must be on you right now. But, I think dwelling on his thoughts/decisions/behaviour will not help you at all. At all. You want to be done with this? You need to think about him as little as possible. You'll always have questions and most of them will go unanswered, but you have to grow to a point where you don't care, where you don't want the answers, because they are not part of your life anymore.

 

Walk away. Properly, without turning back. Leave him to sort out his marriage as regardless of whether or not he want to be there, that's where he is and you have to respect his decision, as mean to you as he has been.

 

I wish you well and I hope you can heal as quickly as possible. Don't be dragged into it anymore.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Yes, it is morbid curiousity. I admit that. Please remember I am still hurting deeply and trying to understand how I let this happen, as well as to understand what happened within him. I'm a bit of am armchair psychiatrist that way... LOL

 

Why do you care how this will work for them? I ask because there are several... not good... reasons to ponder this question.

 

To understand him you need to really set in your mind that this isn't his first rodeo. 4ddays and counting??? Are you serious?

 

Here is my bet. The guy is massively insecure. His wife either can't or won't shore this insecurity/self esteem issue up. So, he uses other women to make himself feel better. If you think that your something special to him... I think your being naive.

 

In terms of why he quit therapy... he doesn't want to pay for it, he doesn't believe it will help. It's that simple.

[jennie-jennie]

IMTK, it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

 

We haven't seen the end of this yet, unless you yourself want it to end.

[whichwayisup]

JJ is right..Unless you really want it to end, it won't. He will lay low for a while then try to fish, reel you back in.

 

You now know he's a liar, not only to his wife but to YOU as well. I know your heart and emotions didn't want to believe that he could lie and omit truths from you, but since he has no problems doing that to the woman he married, his wife, he's ofcourse going to do the exact same to you. Big reality check there.

 

Whether or not they fix their marriage or not, continue with counselling or not, shouldn't be your concern anymore. I get that you're curious, but it also seems like having info on what goes on between them IS giving you abit of a hope..Enough to back off and lay low yourself, see what happens and give it time, wait for him to come back to you.

 

The thing is, if you do get him back (or want him back) it's going to BE because his wife threw him out, NOT by his choice. How is that going to make you feel?

 

Good luck, I hope you get strong and realize you are NOT OBLIGATED to him at all and totally close yourself off from him. DO NC for real this time.

[jennie-jennie]

WWIU, there is a difference between a guy who is a liar and a guy who got cold feet. Just because IMTK's MM lied to his wife does not mean he has lied to her.

[fooled once]

RE: My post below and my update...

 

I do know (confirmed by his W) that xMM has told her he will NOT go back to counseling. They were in it before, separately but with the same counselor (which I thought was odd). About a month ago, after he had "decided to be with me", he quit counseling because he no longer wanted to pay the $$$ when he had already made his "decision" to be with me, and he also didn't feel like his counselor was truly there to help HIM.

 

Anyway, I'm curious what you all think about this. He has told his W he is staying to try to work on their M, I'm sure kissing her a$$ in every other way, yet he refuses more counseling. How do you think that will work for them?

 

Yes, it is morbid curiousity. I admit that. Please remember I am still hurting deeply and trying to understand how I let this happen, as well as to understand what happened within him. I'm a bit of am armchair psychiatrist that way... LOL

 

Doesn't matter what or why.

 

The more you worry about THEIR life, the more you can't go on with your life.

 

I don't believe a word of what he said to you. He is a known liar and you know that. I don't believe he is pining over you, that he misses you, that he wants to be with you. IF you need to believe that to let go, then that's your right.

 

But the sooner you quit worrying about their life and what they will or won't do, the better off you will be.

 

I truly don't believe you are done. In a matter of a couple days, you called him AND emailed him. You want to still be with him, you let him know you will wait (at least until he gets a divorce) and this honestly isn't good for you.

 

I hope you can begin to heal, to let go and to move forward.

[whichwayisup]

WWIU, there is a difference between a guy who is a liar and a guy who got cold feet. Just because IMTK's MM lied to his wife does not mean he has lied to her.

 

Her quote in the other updated post of hers.

 

But it was VERY evident that I was NOT the only one lied to. You would not believe the stuff he said to her that was the polar opposite of what he said to me.

 

Shows that yes, he HAS and DID lie to both women.

[WhereToGoFromHere]

MM Here. Don't beat me up.

 

I've been there. In the few d-days my EAP and I've had together, I guess we've thrown each other under the bus, said our good bye's, and eventually picked up where we left off. Its been hard. Its not going anywhere anymore and more painful than its worth I think and it's coming to an end soon. I think we're both just afraid to say the words. One thing I am glad for is that it's ending on our terms, not our BS's terms which will make it easier to handle.

 

I'm really sorry IMTK. I've been following your situation because I feel like it resembles mine in a few different ways with things that have happened, or could happen. I know how your MM feels partially. He's panicing, like you said.

 

One thing I would say is have you (please don't take this wrong, I'm not trying to add to your grief) put yourself in his shoes? If the situation were reversed where his W said it was over and filed, and you were still in your M, could you have said the words to your H and leave? Your H made the decision for you, right? I don't know how many times I've wish my W would've done that. Its mean to say, I know. I couldn't say the words to my W and neither could my AP say the words to her H. The obligation card is played by out BS's and our extended families.

 

Try and think about all if this (you probably have already) this way. His W is forcing him to say the words, she isn't going to do it. Of the 4 d-days, are they all with you, or has he had other AP's? I guess if he's had other AP's I will stop defending him and shut my mouth and grab some bbq sauce for the crow I'm about to eat. Again, I'm really sorry you have to deal with this. I've actually written several different versions of this, but I get too specific and chicken out. So much I want to say, but this is enough I think.

 

I believe things will get better. I do. I hope none of the things I've said has added to your pain. That is not my intention.

[jennie-jennie]

Her quote in the other updated post of hers.

 

 

 

Shows that yes, he HAS and DID lie to both women.

 

That's not proof enough for me. A broken promise is not the same as a lie. I don't know which was the case in IMTK's case, but a lot of OW do incorrectly call broken promises or changes of heart lies.

[jennie-jennie]

MM Here. Don't beat me up.

...

So much I want to say, but this is enough I think.

 

WTGFH, your posts are so valuable because they let us see into the MM's mind. Don't hesitate to say all you want.

[I Miss the Kiss]

Thanks, everyone. I know I shouldn't care what is happening with him, but like I said, I can't help it. Its too fresh now.

 

WTGFH, PLEASE feel free to be more specific as you said you would like to in your post. As a MM yourself, I think it might help me tap into the psyche of the MM. I am not going to try to fool anyone here by saying I don't care what happens to my MM. I am IN LOVE WITH HIM. Yes, eventually I will get to where it doesn't matter to me anymore, and I do feel a tiny bit of that every day, but right now it does matter. Right or wrong, like it or not.

 

I absolutely DO understand that my MM got cold feet. I think there is an element here of "you would have to know him" to really get why I feel that way. Someone posted above about him being very insecure. YES. That is very true. He has a lot of issues with his father, who is a wealthy man. His father held a lot of material things over my MM's head over the years, as punishment. Like if MM didn't act a certain way or do a certain thing, his "privileges" would be taken away... So MM is a grown man who feels he has to please everyone to be accepted. Those are his words. He said as much to me right before this all went down (or didn't go down, more accurately). MM said his father told him he would be disowned if he left her to be with me. His father told him to suck it up... So there you have it.

 

Anyway, that's beside the point now.

[I Miss the Kiss]

That's not proof enough for me. A broken promise is not the same as a lie. I don't know which was the case in IMTK's case, but a lot of OW do incorrectly call broken promises or changes of heart lies.

 

JJ, you are correct. There were definitely some things that MM OMITTED from his conversations with his wife, which I guess I had to call them lies. But in the end, it was really a lot of very broken promises.

 

Although I don't believe for a second that he is a saint and never lied to me, I truly believe that 99% of this is very cold feet, for many reasons. I am also not naïve enough to believe everything his W said to me, especially the more I think about our conversation.

 

Oh well... only time will tell. MM knows that actions speak louder than words; I told him so.

[I Miss the Kiss]

Of the 4 d-days, are they all with you, or has he had other AP's? I guess if he's had other AP's I will stop defending him and shut my mouth and grab some bbq sauce for the crow I'm about to eat.

 

WTGFH: The 4 prior D-days have all been with me... No other APs that I'm aware of. If I were to wager on the truth, I would say I am 99.99999% sure that he has not had anyone prior.

[bentnotbroken]

WWIU, there is a difference between a guy who is a liar and a guy who got cold feet. Just because IMTK's MM lied to his wife does not mean he has lied to her.

 

 

You're right there is a difference. One side of the mouth is lying and the other deceiving, you just have to figure out which is which because neither is telling the truth. So who is he lying to and who is he deceiving?

[whichwayisup]

Exactly. He is telling his wife one thing and Imissthekiss something else. WHAT is the truth? Somewhere in the middle? And which woman IS getting the truth? Is he playing both sides? Probably..Not malciously, but selfishly.

 

Because he can't make a decision, he would rather his wife end it or Imissthekiss to end it, it makes him weak. Or smart because if he does nothing, the status quo remains... 4 D-DAYs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And he STILL was able to stay married, keep his wife and have an OW on the side! How many women both OW and BW go through FOUR D-Days and both stick around?

 

He may love both women, but I think (and I could be wrong, just my opinion) he's got used to having two women meet and fulfill his needs. He can't live without either one now and he's lived a double life for so long, no matter WHO he chooses, there's pain all around.

 

Honestly, this MM, this husband NEEDS to be ALONE without his wife or OW to decide what he wants. How can anyone make a choice when he has two women pulling on him?

[I Miss the Kiss]

It indeed is amazing-- 4 D-days! Yet I stuck around, so that's not saying much for me. His W, I firmly believe after talking to her, thinks her H is an absolute lying, cheating loser. (She actually said that). She said "I don't aspire for my kids to be like him..." Well, I guess I can't argue with her on that point...

 

Why do I love him? I have no idea... but I do. Same reason she says she loves him and wants to keep her family intact.

 

The W and I went round and round for over an hour on the phone. She blames me but blames him. She says I have a magic spell over him.

 

I don't know what I'm even saying right now. The pain is a b*tch tonight...

[Angel1111]

I guess if he's had other AP's I will stop defending him and shut my mouth and grab some bbq sauce for the crow I'm about to eat. Again, I'm really sorry you have to deal with this. I've actually written several different versions of this, but I get too specific and chicken out. So much I want to say, but this is enough I think.

 

That's funny. It made me laugh. You sound a lot like my xMM in the way he expresses himself. It kind of took me back for a second.

[whichwayisup]

So you won't let him go because you love him, and she won't let him go because she's built a life with him and has children with him. He's addicted to you and can't live without her and the family. Seems like a situation that is going to stay the same since he can't decide either.

[Angel1111]

She says I have a magic spell over him.

 

These are powerful words to hear. Enough to keep you hooked.

[jwi71]

So you won't let him go because you love him, and she won't let him go because she's built a life with him and has children with him. He's addicted to you and can't live without her and the family. Seems like a situation that is going to stay the same since he can't decide either.

 

Perfectly said.

[jennie-jennie]

It indeed is amazing-- 4 D-days! Yet I stuck around, so that's not saying much for me. His W, I firmly believe after talking to her, thinks her H is an absolute lying, cheating loser. (She actually said that). She said "I don't aspire for my kids to be like him..." Well, I guess I can't argue with her on that point...

 

Why do I love him? I have no idea... but I do. Same reason she says she loves him and wants to keep her family intact.

 

The W and I went round and round for over an hour on the phone. She blames me but blames him. She says I have a magic spell over him.

 

I don't know what I'm even saying right now. The pain is a b*tch tonight...

 

(((((IMTK)))))

 

So he loves you.

 

I am curious. Do you agree with the wife that he is an "absolute lying, cheating loser"? I can see that one could say this in the heat of emotion, but to think so in the long run?

[pureinheart]

MM Here. Don't beat me up.

 

I've been there. In the few d-days my EAP and I've had together, I guess we've thrown each other under the bus, said our good bye's, and eventually picked up where we left off. Its been hard. Its not going anywhere anymore and more painful than its worth I think and it's coming to an end soon. I think we're both just afraid to say the words. One thing I am glad for is that it's ending on our terms, not our BS's terms which will make it easier to handle.

 

I'm really sorry IMTK. I've been following your situation because I feel like it resembles mine in a few different ways with things that have happened, or could happen. I know how your MM feels partially. He's panicing, like you said.

 

One thing I would say is have you (please don't take this wrong, I'm not trying to add to your grief) put yourself in his shoes? If the situation were reversed where his W said it was over and filed, and you were still in your M, could you have said the words to your H and leave? Your H made the decision for you, right? I don't know how many times I've wish my W would've done that. Its mean to say, I know. I couldn't say the words to my W and neither could my AP say the words to her H. The obligation card is played by out BS's and our extended families.

 

Try and think about all if this (you probably have already) this way. His W is forcing him to say the words, she isn't going to do it. Of the 4 d-days, are they all with you, or has he had other AP's? I guess if he's had other AP's I will stop defending him and shut my mouth and grab some bbq sauce for the crow I'm about to eat. Again, I'm really sorry you have to deal with this. I've actually written several different versions of this, but I get too specific and chicken out. So much I want to say, but this is enough I think.

 

I believe things will get better. I do. I hope none of the things I've said has added to your pain. That is not my intention.

 

Thank you for posting, and please post more....I am a former hater....I was angry because exMM/exBF did deceive me and played many games.....BUT, since when did I become soooooo perfect?????

 

Fact is, exMM/might be boyfriend again if he puts up and shuts up....lol....really does love me in his own unusual sort of way. I am going to keep that door open...

 

Actually we do have an incredible story.....

 

I am sorry if any of my MM hater posts offended you in any way....I cannot remember if I've had any since coming back to the forum, but I have had many in the past....

[pureinheart]

RE: My post below and my update...

 

I do know (confirmed by his W) that xMM has told her he will NOT go back to counseling. They were in it before, separately but with the same counselor (which I thought was odd). About a month ago, after he had "decided to be with me", he quit counseling because he no longer wanted to pay the $$$ when he had already made his "decision" to be with me, and he also didn't feel like his counselor was truly there to help HIM.

 

Anyway, I'm curious what you all think about this. He has told his W he is staying to try to work on their M, I'm sure kissing her a$$ in every other way, yet he refuses more counseling. How do you think that will work for them?

 

Yes, it is morbid curiousity. I admit that. Please remember I am still hurting deeply and trying to understand how I let this happen, as well as to understand what happened within him. I'm a bit of am armchair psychiatrist that way... LOL

 

I don't think he is serious about the M, I think he is confused and doesnot know what to do. I am not sure if you are in NC, although if not I would consaider it to give him soem time to figure out what he wants....if it is you, he will miss you due to the NC.

 

I know NC hurts, but aren't you dying to know where his heart is really at?

[jwi71]

I don't think he is serious about the M, I think he is confused and doesnot know what to do. I am not sure if you are in NC, although if not I would consaider it to give him soem time to figure out what he wants....if it is you, he will miss you due to the NC.

 

I don't think going NC so he "misses" IMTK is the right reason - it will likely fail. NC is for IMTK to HEAL and move forward...to end the A...not to be used as a tool or weapon against the AP. From what I have seen, people who use NC for that end nearly always break it (because they don't truly want it).

 

I know NC hurts, but aren't you dying to know where his heart is really at?

IMTK already knows where his heart is NOT. All she needs to know. If he was honest and wanted her...he would be there. And he's NOT.

 

'nuff said.

This little drama is not over yet.

IMTK hasn't lost enough, hasn't cried enough, hasn't hurt enough.

Yet.

She still has to lose more before she is ready to call it quits.