how to rebuild trust

[sunny14]

Hi, I really need some advise.

 

My boyfriend and his friends went to LA for the Pearl Jam gig last October and they decided to go to Vegas for one night. I wasn't really comfortable with "the 4 guys in Vegas" situation but one of the guys was in a serious relationship so I thought I should trust him and said "Well, be good. Don't do anything naughty!"

 

When he came back from the trip, I asked him if he didn't do anything naughty and he said NO.

 

On the new year's eve, I was with my bf at his friend's house and the guy who went to Vegas with said something about Hooters which I didn't know. My bf was like, " That was his idea." and I thought he didn't tell me about it with intention.

 

Then I started to have a doubt. I asked him why he didn't tell me about it and if there was something else he hadn't told me yet. He then said "We went to a strip club."

 

Of course I didn't like it. I asked him why. He said they were on the taxi and the lads told the driver to go to the place, he said he didn't wanna go and that I would be upset if he did, and they said "F**k that, you'll be fine." And he gave in.

 

I think if he really didn't wanna go, he could have waited somewhere else. But he said that was kinda remote area and he couldn't find a casino nearby. Anyway he said he was really uncomfortable there and they left in hour to casino.

 

Then why did he hide it? Yeah, he succumbed to peer pressure and he was embarrassed or something but it could have been so much easier if he told me everything when he came back.

 

The issue here is that I cannot trust him anymore. I really don't want him to lie. He might have thought that would be OK if I didn't find out but I don't want him to get used to it.

 

About a year ago, I found out that he was watching porns regularly on internet. It popped up when I tried to type something and I confronted him and told him that I really appreciate if he could stop. He said he totally understood why I get insulted and he would quit doing that for us.

 

I still had a doubt so occasionally I popped up the question, "Are you watching porns?" The answer was always "NO." So I trusted him. I forgot about it for a while.

 

Then last November, I was in his room and using his computer. You know Google Chrome? It shows you "recently closed tabs" and there I saw Japanese pornstar's name. I asked him right there if he watched porns. He said YES.

 

2 days before that day, I asked him if he was keeping his promise and he said YES. For a long time, I felt like I had been over controlling and thought I should compromise a bit. So I said, "Thank you for keeping it and I respect that. But IF you ever feel like watching it in the future, please don't watch Asian one?" - since I am Asian and at least I wanted to be his only one in this field, you know. He said, "OK, but I won't watch it anyway."

 

And according to Google Chrome, he watched it the day after this conversation. I thought I compromised and that wasn't easy for me. But does my feeling or promises matter to him at all?? Why did he have to watch Japanese one that night??

He said "sorry" million times but I said I couldn't trust him anymore. Then he let me install the family filter thing on his PC so that he cannot access those websites. He can still download stuff or buy magazines but I won't let it bother me. I got hurt deeply not because of porns. He made promise and broke it the next day!!

 

I know he feels extremely guilt so I was trying to forgive and forget. But now I know about the strip club in Vegas. I feel like my trust was betrayed again and don't know what to think anymore.

 

We are together for 2 years and I love him. I want to make it work and want to trust him again. I just don't know how... Any idea??

[Bejita463]

You could try loosening the vice-grip on his balls, to start.

 

I don't really understand why you feel the partner who is right for you is one you need to change. If porn is such an issue to you, and it is not to him, perhaps you aren't compatible.

 

For the rest, it is entirely possible he DID only go to a strip club because he was pressured. I don't have friends like that, but they exist. I am willing to bet that the reason he didn't want to tell you is because he did not want a huge issue started over something that he did not want to do (or perhaps he did, but considered it meaningless and knew you wouldn't agree) and just avoided the topic as a result.

 

If he actually did want to go to a strip club, and that is a huge issue to you, but not to him... again, perhaps you are not compatible.

 

 

Just to clarify: I am not saying you should accept behaviors you don't think are acceptable. I am saying that if you two don't agree on something, trying to change each other is not the way to approach the situation. You can't FORCE someone to be what you want in a partner, and sometimes they might do things that you don't approve of. It happens. The question should not be whether you can change it. It should be whether you can accept it.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Bejita463
Clarification.

[sunny14]

Thank you for the advice. I get what you guys mean.

I know most guys watch porn, go to strip club and all.

 

But then why promise in the first place? I didn't force him to. He said, "They are not good for my head and I always wanted to stop. And now you said you don't like me doing it so I don't have any reasons not to stop! Would you respect me if I quit?"

 

I know it's not easy for those guys to stop watching it. But did he even give it a try? I think it would have been different if that happened a month or couple months later. But hey, it's only a day and he broke it!!

 

Problem here is not porn or strip club, but it's him keep making promises and breaking them. I now feel less important to him. He says he loves me everyday. But if he actually does love me, why would he break the promise he made a day before?

 

I asked him if I even come across his mind when he was doing it. He said DID. Even worse. He remembered what he promised me a day before and still did it. He said he thought that was harmless.

 

WHAT?? If that was harmless why would I ask him not to do!! Does making promises mean anything to him?

I used to think he was a honest person and bad lier but now I know he can lie pretty well.

 

Here I am. How do I know when he's true to me and when not?

He doesn't like me hanging out with my male friends so I don't do that. Because I love him and I don't want him to feel slighted or anything.

 

My ex watched porn and I even payed for it once(!!) but he never hid it and it didn't bother me. There were some bucks party going on for his mates so he went to strip club couple times too. Didn't bother me either.

 

I think my issue here is that I am feeling very slighted and resentful. I feel like I should do something similar to make him understand how I feel. I know, it's very wrong and unhealthy. I won't do that but I feel that way.

[Bejita463]

But then why promise in the first place? I didn't force him to. He said, "They are not good for my head and I always wanted to stop. And now you said you don't like me doing it so I don't have any reasons not to stop! Would you respect me if I quit?"

 

That question says to me that he was telling what he thought you wanted to hear because he felt he had to do so. Did he know he did not? Be honest, are you really so certain you would be okay with it? I didn't get that impression, and I bet he didn't either.

 

That's no excuse for lying, and I don't lie to my partners, but I can see his side of the table pretty easily.

 

I know it's not easy for those guys to stop watching it. But did he even give it a try?

No, he didn't.

 

Problem here is not porn or strip club, but it's him keep making promises and breaking them.

 

And that, is very reasonable. Now for the million dollar question: Does he know this? If this is really what your problem is, you might find him much more receptive to lowering his guard. Course, having your guard up isn't really an excuse to lie either, but honestly, his lying about it may or may not make sense depending directly on how you handled the situation.

 

What I mean by that is simple. I've had SOs accuse me of weird crap and not listen to my answers, or demanded in the most irrational of ways that I change something they didn't like. In ways so out of line I actually dreaded them bringing it up. Things would have been far easier for me had I just offered convincing lies instead of hanging to the truth. While I don't agree with the decision to actually do so, I understand it.

 

I now feel less important to him. He says he loves me everyday. But if he actually does love me, why would he break the promise he made a day before?

 

Again, that is entirely dependent upon how you handled the situation. Realize that you may not have come off as calm/reasonable as you think. Considering that, if you can see why he might lie (as explained above), he was probably avoiding arguments in his mind. Otherwise... well, I can't speak to that, as I am not a liar. I can't understand lying for the sake of lying, so I cannot offer insight on it.

 

He said he thought that was harmless.

 

WHAT?? If that was harmless why would I ask him not to do!!

 

Bingo. He thinks it is harmless. You do not. Still certain he wasn't just trying to avoid confrontation?

 

He doesn't like me hanging out with my male friends so I don't do that. Because I love him and I don't want him to feel slighted or anything.

 

Real, actual people and porn are very different things. Though I don't dig on the jealousy against friends thing either.

 

 

As for the rest, talk to him. At the end of the talk you should be able to accurately describe his views. Don't think about how to argue with him or accuse him of things while he's speaking; listen. If you two have a conversation that, at the end of which, you cannot accurately explain each others' views on your respective sides of the discussion... that discussion was a failure.

[reboot]

Trust is something you give, not something someone earns.

[Bejita463]

Trust is something you give, not something someone earns.

 

I agree. Respect is earned. Trust is lost.

[Yukikazi]

Trust is something you give, not something someone earns.

 

BS.. you gotta earn trust... just like friendship and respect.. you don't get a free pass just cause i don't know you. Sure I'll give you the benefit of the doubt but that doesn't mean I trust you.

[reboot]

You can't "earn" trust, sorry.

[Clep]

I see two problems here. The first is that you believe you should actually have the right to tell him where to go and when. They went to Vegas and you expected them not to go to Hooters and a strip club? He is not required to disclose his every move to you and if he doesn't that does not make him a liar.

 

The second is that he does not have the balls to tell you where to go when you pressure him to do as you wish. It sounds like he is intimidated by you and just want's to avoid the confrontation which is too bad. I do not believe you will ever keep this man under these circumstances.

 

Oh and as far as the porn thing....so he watches porn. Who cares. Same thing there, he tells you what you want to hear so you will not keep on him about his personal choices. If the porn got in the way of your sex life then I would be concerned, if not no big deal.

[Yukikazi]

You can't "earn" trust, sorry.

Yes you can.. no need to be sorry

[Clep]

Yes you can.. no need to be sorry

 

I agree with this. I earn the trust of my mate daily. I earn it with integrity, complete honesty with him even if it brings me uncomfortable feelings. I believe that people can prove they are trustworthy by being in multiple situations where the results shows they are trustworthy and with each situation trust grows. That is how trust is earned from my perspective.

[Ophelia Rue]

The man was on vacation with his male friends. Four males = strip club. It's inevitable. Watching girls with fake boobs dancing on a pole is totally different than having sex with one of them.

 

That's one thing. And also, all men watch porn. Hell, I'M a girl and I'm in a serious relationship and I watch porn like, once every couple of days. Well, soft core, because it's free, LOL... but still porn. It's kind of entertaining. Lots of girls watch it, lots of couples watch it, and 100% of dudes watch it. Sorry.

[sunny14]

Now for the million dollar question: Does he know this? If this is really what your problem is, you might find him much more receptive to lowering his guard. Course, having your guard up isn't really an excuse to lie either, but honestly, his lying about it may or may not make sense depending directly on how you handled the situation.

 

That is very true, Bejita. I just let the anger explode when I faced those problems and didn't try to see what's underneath and what really was bugging me. I didn't even know why I was so sad.

But like you said, when I told him why actually I was hurt then he didn't interrupt my story or didn't get defensive at all. umm, I should handle the situation in a better way. Thank you.

 

 

They went to Vegas and you expected them not to go to Hooters and a strip club? He is not required to disclose his every move to you and if he doesn't that does not make him a liar.

 

I didn't EXPECT them not to go to those places. I just BELIEVED what my bf said to me. When he said he was going to Vegas, he was the one said he wasn't going to do anything to hurt my feeling.

And when he came back, he again said he didn't do anything naughty. That doesn't make him a liar?

 

 

The second is that he does not have the balls to tell you where to go when you pressure him to do as you wish. It sounds like he is intimidated by you and just want's to avoid the confrontation which is too bad. I do not believe you will ever keep this man under these circumstances.

 

I agree with this.

 

 

I earn the trust of my mate daily. I earn it with integrity, complete honesty with him even if it brings me uncomfortable feelings. I believe that people can prove they are trustworthy by being in multiple situations where the results shows they are trustworthy and with each situation trust grows. That is how trust is earned from my perspective.

 

Yes, that's what I'm saying. When you know the other person is not always honest with you, how can you trust him??

After the porn thing he said he would prove that he was trustworthy and now

this new strip thing was confessed and I just got confused. We were rebuilding the trust slowly but firmly. Then, we are back to start again. And I don't have much energy left on this, bet he feels the same.

 

At least that actually happened before the porn thing and he was open and nice to me after that so, I guess I should just let it go... But it is not easy.

Edited January 12, 2010 by sunny14

[Clep]

I didn't EXPECT them not to go to those places. I just BELIEVED what my bf said to me. When he said he was going to Vegas, he was the one said he wasn't going to do anything to hurt my feeling.

And when he came back, he again said he didn't do anything naughty. That doesn't make him a liar?

 

This I believe to be the key to the problem. He said he wasn't going to do anything to hurt your feelings yes....from his perspective. I would guess that his idea of what would hurt someones feelings, or your feelings is different than yours. It sounds to me like he was playing a guessing game, and got it wrong.

 

I am a woman and I do not view what he did as naughty at all. If he kissed someone else or cheated I would find that naughty. If my boyfriend didn't do some of or all of those things I would wonder if he knew how to have fun with the guys or if he was dead.

[sunny14]

Clep, I wish I were like you too!!

 

Sorry, this is my first time posting here so wasn't sure how specific I should be about his words. But there wasn't guessing game going on and when he said that he wouldn't do anything naughty in Vagas, I asked "Like what?" and his answer was "Like go watch girls dancing or pick up girls and cheat on you, that kind."

 

So there wasn't any miscommunication. He knew he didn't keep his words and that's why buried it.

 

Why promise or why lie/hide?

 

I feel like it's gonna happen again in a different situation. Doesn't matter if it involves girls or not. I just can't trust his words whatsoever right now!!

 

ah, I hate this...

[New_Life08]

Yes you can.. no need to be sorry

 

I agree with you Yukikazi. Trust is earned, it is also lost, and if it is to be reestablished, it needs to be earned again.

 

Of course it is all in the way we look at it

[reboot]

So everyone in your life is guilty until proven innocent?

[New_Life08]

The bottom line is he didn't have the balls to tell his friends he wasn't going there (he doesn't owe them anymore of an explanation than that). Instead he chose to go back on his promise.

 

It probably was meaningless to him and he probably wished the whole thing never happened. What you and he need to settle is where are the priorities and integrity to the relationship? Because lying doesn't cut it. He could have lied to his friends to avoid it and keep his promise to you. But, that didn't happen, so where are you on his list?

 

If he is doing something that leads to lies, then it may be a clue he shouldn't be doing it... or he needs to find someone who accepts his behavior.

[Clep]

Clep, I wish I were like you too!!

 

Sorry, this is my first time posting here so wasn't sure how specific I should be about his words. But there wasn't guessing game going on and when he said that he wouldn't do anything naughty in Vagas, I asked "Like what?" and his answer was "Like go watch girls dancing or pick up girls and cheat on you, that kind."

 

So there wasn't any miscommunication. He knew he didn't keep his words and that's why buried it.

 

Why promise or why lie/hide?

 

I feel like it's gonna happen again in a different situation. Doesn't matter if it involves girls or not. I just can't trust his words whatsoever right now!!

 

ah, I hate this...

 

I can see how you would feel uncomfortable with this. It appears like he is trying to please you and avoid confrontation. The problem with that is trust has been breached and it probably would have been easier in the first place for the two of you to talk it out. I would feel uncomfortable in the situation given this information you have just provided.

 

I try to look first at my approaches and if they are fostering open and honest communication. Are you really listening to him etc. I think it is important to ask him why he felt the need to lie and see what you can work out in the future. If he feels you are willing to compromise, maybe he will be willing to do the same.

[Bulbie]

I would rather my boyfriend went to a hundred strip clubs and had porn that he watched all the time than cheat on me once.

 

I used to have a major problem with that sort of thing, but then I came to understand it wasn't the porn or the strippers that were the problem, it was the lies. I'd get told "No I don't ever watch porn I find it degrading" WITHOUT my talking to him about not doing it, then I'd find a huge stash of hardcore porn.

 

So I learned to make deal breakers right at the start of the relationship. Just as you should. If porn and strippers are going to be a problem for you then you shouldn't get together. If they are now then you can't change him and shouldn't try. Because he won;t stop for you.

 

Nowadays I'm totally cool with porn and strippers. So long as they tell me that's what they're into right at the start, and I tell them that right from the start. I haven't had any problems in that area since I started doing that.

[Anopsia]

To me, a lie is a lie. No matter how small, or what the reasons. It's hard to trust someone who (repeatedly) lies to you to not cause conflict.