Why are most women...

[jennie-jennie]

Yes I can, yes I do, yes I will. I still wasn't sure when I first came here and started posting how I was going to handle things - they don't know I know. I was never going to kick him out over it. I love him I know he loves me. That was what was important to me.

 

But not only can I lay down with him, I start sex just about as much he does. I desire him as much as I always have. If I didn't, I wouldn't stay, no matter what the outside reasons - kids, money etc.

Marriage without passion isn't worth it. Life is too short to live resentful, angry and bitter.

 

Not only that, but I'm going on vacation with the OW next month. I've forgiven her as well. I'll admit it was a little harder then him. It was a huge betrayal on both sides, but holding onto the pain isn't going to make me happy, getting angry wasn't going to fix things, being bitter won't change what happened. So I'm not. I let it go and instead embraced the fact that I knew he loved me and worked on the things that would bring me happiness, that would help fix things, and accepted that I can't change the past.

 

I don't think I'm weak. I don't think H is evil. And I don't think OW is callus. **** happens.

 

CCL

 

In my eyes, crazycatlady, you are strong, very strong. I admire the way you have handled your husband's and the OW's infidelity. You are a role model to me. I am an OW at present, but I have been a BS for many years, so I know what loving someone and having passion for them although they have not always been faithful to you means.

 

14 years and still the same passion for your husband, that is awesome.

[herenow]

How do you not get that IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU?

 

YOU'RE NOT PART OF THE RELATIONSHIP.

 

Oh, the W does have a choice. She chooses every day whether to stay in the M or not. Just as he does.

 

And back off of Fallen Angel. She's not your WS's OW.

 

GEL

 

I agree 100% I was not a part of the A and it wasn't about me. That is exactly why I don't understand why an OW would want or care about forgiveness from a BW.

 

Getting back to the topic of this thread. If the OW isn't a part of the BW's life, then why should the BW care at all about the OW? IMO, you have to care about someone to want to, or be able to, forgive them.

[pureinheart]

That's really easy to say if you haven't had it happen to you yet. To have someone know the things that you have only shared with friends or family. Worse yet the things you only shared with the person you thought you loved and trusted with your life. Not just your thoughts and feelings, but your finances, your health issues, your relationship with your siblings, parents, even your dreams and hopes.

 

It is to *shrug* it off now, without having to actually know that parts of your life has actually been discussed and dissected by someone you may not know. I think of it as it must feel like the way celebrities must feel when people go through your trash, follow you when you go to the grocery store and know what disease you have before you do. Yes, over the top, but even tonight I have read where conversations took place with WS telling them what to do get closer to the wife. That requires intimate knowledge of a person(who did not give consent by the way) and their life(which may or may not be totally accurate) and the input from a stranger.

 

I'm sure that some sort of "invasion" has happened to FA, it has to all of us at some point in our lives.

 

Now could it be FA/me are too easy going and are missing something? Or are there those that take things too much to heart?

 

I think it is healthier to to be easy going and in most cases let the chips fall where they may, not saying one should just check out of life and become irresponsible. By no means, take care of business, although it is all small stuff when we look at the big picture.

 

Now Bent, I know where you stand spiritually, and I have wanted to say this because I know you know where I am coming from. God is in control, not us.

 

My heart has been broken just like yours, in so many ways....God allowed this to happen for a reason....only the strong will stand and what does not kill you makes you stronger, right?

 

Bent, you are extremely well versed, and the majority of what you say is the truth, although I sense a lot of hurt and unforgiveness....forgive me if I am out of line.

[bentnotbroken]

I'm sure that some sort of "invasion" has happened to FA, it has to all of us at some point in our lives.

 

Now could it be FA/me are too easy going and are missing something? Or are there those that take things too much to heart?

 

I think it is healthier to to be easy going and in most cases let the chips fall where they may, not saying one should just check out of life and become irresponsible. By no means, take care of business, although it is all small stuff when we look at the big picture.

 

Now Bent, I know where you stand spiritually, and I have wanted to say this because I know you know where I am coming from. God is in control, not us.

 

My heart has been broken just like yours, in so many ways....God allowed this to happen for a reason....only the strong will stand and what does not kill you makes you stronger, right?

 

Bent, you are extremely well versed, and the majority of what you say is the truth, although I sense a lot of hurt and unforgiveness....forgive me if I am out of line.

 

 

1) God is indeed in control of all. But he does allow free will. Each of us are allowed to decide if we will follow his commandments or not. We each are allowed to chose if we will follow him at all. We are all allowed to even decide if he exists for us. Those are the things each of us controls.

 

2)My heart was broken...without letting God be the head of my life. That is no longer the case. I can miss what I never had.

 

3)You aren't out of line voicing your opinions, but in the case you are indeed wrong. Forgiveness over the A is a done deal. It is no longer an issue. It is the aftermath with continued interference with myself and my children that are issues for me. As I have said on many occasions and I am sure I will say again, forgiving is a daily decision that I must make. Some days, I get there, some days I don't. But I remember that God forgave me and I will never measure up, so why not give someone else that same consideration.

[reboot]

The tone, and it is usually not said in so many words, although it is like the OW or NW (new woman) is basically a "nothing" and that the M is this all encompassing entity or fortress in which there is an ownership of the S. The OW being at the low position. It just doesn't sound right to me.

 

It is like the W is on some sort of pedistal.

 

Wow.

 

A marriage should be all encompassing and it should be a fortress. The idea is two people becoming one, not owning each other. Both the wife and the husband should be on a pedestal. A marriage should be sacred. And any outsider should be "nothing".

 

And the reason the divorce rate is so high is because most people feel like you do and not many like I do.

 

I don't know why they just don't change the standard wedding vows from "till death do us part" to "till someone better comes along".

[LifesontheUp]

Wow.

 

A marriage should be all encompassing and it should be a fortress. The idea is two people becoming one, not owning each other. Both the wife and the husband should be on a pedestal. A marriage should be sacred. And any outsider should be "nothing".

 

And the reason the divorce rate is so high is because most people feel like you do and not many like I do.

 

I don't know why they just don't change the standard wedding vows from "till death do us part" to "till someone better comes along".

 

Totally agree with this.

 

I find it sad that so often the promised marriage vows of "forsaking all others" - remaining mutually exclusive are so easily forgotten these days. A world full of people who couldn't care less about anything other than themselves, the "me me me" attitude is highly prevalent......how sad.

[Spark1111]

Wow.

 

A marriage should be all encompassing and it should be a fortress. The idea is two people becoming one, not owning each other. Both the wife and the husband should be on a pedestal. A marriage should be sacred. And any outsider should be "nothing".

 

And the reason the divorce rate is so high is because most people feel like you do and not many like I do.

 

I don't know why they just don't change the standard wedding vows from "till death do us part" to "till someone better comes along".

 

For me the bottom line is NOT that he and his OW developed feelings for each other. That is life, and that happens, as hurtful as that may be.

 

It is that two people had to operate in SECRECY and he, most definitely, had to lie to my face everyday to do so.

 

Everything else is just excuses and donkey dust and sunshine being blown up my...a**! And the OW's too!

 

I believe I deserved better than that. Every one does.

[jennie-jennie]

For me the bottom line is NOT that he and his OW developed feelings for each other. That is life, and that happens, as hurtful as that may be.

 

It is that two people had to operate in SECRECY and he, most definitely, had to lie to my face everyday to do so.

 

Everything else is just excuses and donkey dust and sunshine being blown up my...a**! And the OW's too!

 

I believe I deserved better than that. Every one does.

 

But with the more realistic "til someone better comes along" the secrecy would be unnecessary. It is the unrealistic expectation that a marriage shall last a lifetime that makes for the affair.

[reboot]

The expectation that a marriage shall last a lifetime is unrealistic to you, not to everyone. I agree you have the right to your beliefs, you could do others the same courtesy.

[LifesontheUp]

It is the unrealistic expectation that a marriage shall last a lifetime that makes for the affair.

 

Why is it unrealistic?

[RedDevil66]

???

 

Seriously? It is about me if I am being talked about, and I was.

 

I am part of the relationship if the relationship is with my husband. That's why it's called "MY".

 

The wife chooses to stay in the marriage? WTH? I don't recall reading a single post explaining her MM is a polygamist and she is another wife. You say this as if the W has had the situation explained to her, and knows her H is with FA, and has decided to accept it. We know nothing about the wife other than what FA has said, and she gets her info from the guy who is married and has her on the side. Maybe he's completely accurate with his info, but the odds are against it. IIRC, there was a DDay. All that says is at some point she was aware, doesn't mean she hasn't chosen or been manipulated into believing it is over.

 

FA isn't my H's OW??????????? Really????? Wow, I am confused, I certainly must have mistaken her for someone else. Sorry, while I have many problems and character flaws, transference is not one of them. (Or is it 'transferance'? See, character flaw right there, I'm a little anal about correct spelling. )

 

I don't need to back off as I'm not attacking her, I am disagreeing with her. If you don't like what I have to say, or FA, for that matter, there is an ignore function on this forum, feel free to use it on me.

 

I guess next I will be accused of stalking FA just to be mean to her. I noticed she had a thread going, and I stayed out of it. I have been following this thread, and am not going to stop just because she chooses to post in it.

 

If I have any issue with FA at all it would be I read about how she managed to get out of a long term abusive marriage by the skin of her teeth, and then what does she do? She hooks up with a MM. Why? Because so many times, people find some way to repeat destructive behavior. IIRC, first one was 15 years? Now what, 4 years? Jesus. There is more to life than this.

 

The one thing I've learned from LS and speaking to cheaters is, ther is NO point is trying to argue with them.

They are in deep, serious denial and will defend their horrible actions in any way they can

 

You see, when someone feels reall low about who they are, they will attack others to take the focus off their bad behavior.

 

You are right

[jennie-jennie]

That's really easy to say if you haven't had it happen to you yet. To have someone know the things that you have only shared with friends or family. Worse yet the things you only shared with the person you thought you loved and trusted with your life. Not just your thoughts and feelings, but your finances, your health issues, your relationship with your siblings, parents, even your dreams and hopes.

 

In my country serial monogamy is much more common than in the US. What BNB describes above is what happens when your partner moves on and finds a new partner whom he/she trusts and loves wholeheartedly.

 

You bring your history into the new relationship, and together with the new partner you have an opportunity to work through your past. Intimate things about the old partner will be shared because they have affected you. The new partner receives this information in trust and should treat it as such. It should be safe with the new partner.

[jennie-jennie]

Why is it unrealistic?

 

50% divorce rate speaks for itself.

 

And what are the statistics for affairs now again?

[LifesontheUp]

50% divorce rate speaks for itself.

 

And what are the statistics for affairs now again?

 

Never used to be like that. Just so easy these days. I've lost count of the number of people who get married over and over. People just find the easy way out..........and onto the next. But when they get there they find they have the exact same problems they had in the previous marriage so it isn't any better Todays throw away society

 

I'll refer you back to my earlier post #131. Its the "me me me" mentality thats prevalent in society these days and is so sad.

[silktricks]

Not necessarily. I can't think of any ways in which my R would have been different with my nowH. If I think about what changed between when it was an A, and when it was a R (during the separation, waiting for the D) and now that it is a M, I can't think of anything, really.

 

For you, personally, it may not have been different. But based upon your previous posts, for you husband I believe it would have been, as he had to spend time lying (at first), and then worrying about whether or not he should/could leave his wife. That's a lot different than what he would have experienced had he not been married, I believe. If there is a large difference for one partner in a relationship, don't you believe the relationship itself experiences some changes as well?

[OWoman]

For you, personally, it may not have been different. But based upon your previous posts, for you husband I believe it would have been, as he had to spend time lying (at first), and then worrying about whether or not he should/could leave his wife. That's a lot different than what he would have experienced had he not been married, I believe. If there is a large difference for one partner in a relationship, don't you believe the relationship itself experiences some changes as well?

 

Lying "by omission" perhaps - but then he wasn't in the habit of telling her where he was going, what he was doing or who he was speaking to on the phone usually (as she wasn't, to him) so that would have been anomalous had he done so. Admittedly, he did go through a stressful period around the split - but the R before and after that was much as it always has been.

 

True - he doesn't have the background "noise" of his xW causing stress on the sidelines - but that's similar to saying a R changes qualitatively because someone is encountering some stress in the workplace. It impacts only to the degree they drag it around with then into the R. His M was a non-issue in our R, something he could forget about and worry only when he walked back into a room she happened to be in (which wasn't very often, as they avoided each other as far as possible. It's a big house, quite easily done!)

[pureinheart]

While your point of view may be shared by many. I find it hard to reconcile what you are posting in this particular instance with what you say your belief system is. God does say we belong to each other in marriage. And that the wife(as well as the husband) should be placed on a pedestal. He also says an outside party shouldn't be held in such esteem. I don't mean anyone is junk, God don't make junk. But the wrong actions against him (and since we are discussing marriage) what he has said marriage is, he called a stench.

 

I don't see the system you describe here, but if it exists in your mind then it is real.

 

From what I understand when two people are M they form a covenant with God, if in fact the M is of God, meaning if it was the perfect will of God and He joined them.

 

I believe that neither person should be esteemed, but God (BNB, I'm trying to communicate this properly). What I have heard internet/non internet is that the W position is held as the highest position and the OW is lower. I believe that God holds all relationships as very high, not just M. We are all equal, none being higher and none lower.

 

I am not, and never have said that cheating is ok, in fact cheating is not the only abomination. I have lied, I have stolen, I have coveted, I have murdered, I have done many horrible things...this is why I must operate in Grace and I have been forgiven much, so therefore I must forgive much.

[pureinheart]

BTW, seriously sorry about the threadjack. Will get back on track starting now.

 

I'm sure Kizzy doesn't mind...I don't think anyone in this forum has a problem with speaking their minds...lol...

 

Actually stuff starts coming out that needs to, and yes it may not be exactly on the lines of the OP...everyone is being cool, respectful and things are getting worked out and that is the point of any forum...I think it's cool!

[pureinheart]

Wow.

 

A marriage should be all encompassing and it should be a fortress. The idea is two people becoming one, not owning each other. Both the wife and the husband should be on a pedestal. A marriage should be sacred. And any outsider should be "nothing".

 

And the reason the divorce rate is so high is because most people feel like you do and not many like I do.

 

I don't know why they just don't change the standard wedding vows from "till death do us part" to "till someone better comes along".

 

So much of the emphasis is put on the "cheating" and "OW". I rarely hear any emphasis put on the issues in the M prior to the A, or actually before, during or after.

 

I see the A as the result of something....ok like smoking ciggs is a nervous habit, although it is not the root. The question is is why does the person smoke?

 

I see the thinking that we own the other, and I can't agree with that. I would choose to use the word respect rather than pedistal, and I think that changes when the two people do not respect one another, which in turn changes the entire dynamics of the M. The "BS" by way of cheating which is this particular topic, could have betrayed the "WS" in a way that is like cheating to them.

 

Like I said in a previous statement, my exMM/ whatever he is now, sees cheating as stealing money from him, you might has well kill this guy at this point.

 

I never said a M should not be sacred, although if it "becomes" not sacred anymore, trust has been violated, then should there be AW or AM involved they should not be demeaned as they are the result of a deeper issue.

[bentnotbroken]

In my country serial monogamy is much more common than in the US. What BNB describes above is what happens when your partner moves on and finds a new partner whom he/she trusts and loves wholeheartedly.

 

You bring your history into the new relationship, and together with the new partner you have an opportunity to work through your past. Intimate things about the old partner will be shared because they have affected you. The new partner receives this information in trust and should treat it as such. It should be safe with the new partner.

 

 

Only if that partner is divorced and the new partner isn't a nut with an ax to grind. What I described is just this. He loved her so he begged to come home and she dumped him never to look back. You are completely wrong about what I was saying.

[bentnotbroken]

From what I understand when two people are M they form a covenant with God, if in fact the M is of God, meaning if it was the perfect will of God and He joined them.

 

I believe that neither person should be esteemed, but God (BNB, I'm trying to communicate this properly). What I have heard internet/non internet is that the W position is held as the highest position and the OW is lower. I believe that God holds all relationships as very high, not just M. We are all equal, none being higher and none lower.

 

I am not, and never have said that cheating is ok, in fact cheating is not the only abomination. I have lied, I have stolen, I have coveted, I have murdered, I have done many horrible things...this is why I must operate in Grace and I have been forgiven much, so therefore I must forgive much.

 

So then the 10 commandments about coveting and the Letters that Paul wrote to the Corinthians (I Corn. Chapters 5-7) isn't really what God had in mind. Interesting. :confused:According to the covenant that you speak of, it was between husband, wife and God, right. So how does and AP enter into it to be place in any position within that covenant? You are speaking of higher and lower positions, but my understanding that the covenant for the marriage didn't include an 4th party. Certainly not in the command to not covet another's wife(husband) and the committing of adultery was pretty clear....It said Don't.

 

I am just trying to understand the exceptions you see to these and where can I find them to research them for myself. Because by my reading Chapter 6 v. 12-18 and Chapter 7 are pretty clear. I mean it is spoken about in several books. Leviticus, Hebrews, Jeremiah, James, Matthew, Luke, John and Revelation, yet I don't recall where it talks about the 3rd party in a marriage being held in high regard by God at all.

 

No cheating isn't the only thing that God dislikes, but since is a forum about APs(even if it were posted in infidelity or marriage) this would be the focused act that isn't acceptable to him.

[Fallen Angel]

But with the more realistic "til someone better comes along" the secrecy would be unnecessary. It is the unrealistic expectation that a marriage shall last a lifetime that makes for the affair.

 

I think when those vows were originally written people married at an average age of 15 or so, and died around 40ish.. til death do us part was much easier then. (LMAO, now that I said that, i am going to have to actually spend time researching it, damnit I should have kept my mouth shut with my theory!!)

[Fallen Angel]

The one thing I've learned from LS and speaking to cheaters is, ther is NO point is trying to argue with them.

They are in deep, serious denial and will defend their horrible actions in any way they can

 

You see, when someone feels reall low about who they are, they will attack others to take the focus off their bad behavior.

 

You are right

 

Red Devil? you are a perfect example of that about which you speak.

[Mary3]

Wow , I get this very strong feeling that alot of betrayed married wives here are like a strong brick wall but for the wrong reasons.

 

A solid wall should be built to keep the cheating husband OUT of your life. Not to build a strong foundation on his cheating .

 

You don't own him. ( don't throw rocks ) The way it seems to be presented is " MY husband. Likes its P.E .time and you are picking teams. Why would you want to OWN him or what he did ?

 

Its like this : Wife + Cheating Husband and then / Cheating Husband + Unfortunate Other Women. ( Perhaps you use a different name for her )

 

First some of you want to feel anger about her existance. But she does INDEED exist unless you have found a way or a threat to get her out of your life.

 

Raise your hand ladies if your husband came home a few weeks into the affair and admits he is a low life s*** ?

 

How many of you had to FIND something , like evidence and had to PRESENT it to him , only for him to beg you for forgiveness. How many weeks and MONTHS did it go on ? Lets wake up here okay ?

 

For those of you staunchly defending your husbands the odds of him doing it again are HIGH !

 

For those of you who told him to hit the front door , what are the odds he will cheat again sleeping on his friends couch tonite ? Maybe not as high because he knows cheating gets him out the door.

 

She ( the OW ) DID and Does have a R with your H. ALthough most of it is built on lies , nevertheless , she has been fed crock feed for weeks and months. So when you say she has no business in our marraige or our life your H MADE alot of things her business when he promised her the moon and whatever else he promised...

 

It really scares me the amount of ( some ) women here who defend the H...Very scarey..

 

The MOST important question : How many wives here have EVER been cheating on prior to finding out about THIS other woman ( OW )

 

Have you ever had ANYONE cheat on your before ? Any past bf .,....OR have you caught your H more than one time ? ( Remember you can only answer from what you know )

 

If you can't correlate or verify , How many of you suspected that this H or a prior bf/ H cheated on you in your lifetime ?

 

Please give your best honest answer....

[fooled once]

As for the choice, everyone has a choice. People who are in R's see when things are not going well. They have a choice to decide whether to communicate about it or not. I really don't place a W at such a passive disadvantage. I find it quite disempowering to hand over my choices to someone else.

 

But this is what OW in many cases do. They hand over the power of their lives to the MM as they sit and wait and wait and wait for him to leave his wife. And as we see here, many don't leave. And the OW waits and waits and then expects the W to kick him out or divorce him after a D Day -- and the OW sits and waits and waits and say the MM 'needs time' to make a decision.

 

I agree with you GEL in that I don't want to hand over my choice of my life to anyone, as much as possible.

 

I want to control my destiny. I want to steer my life. I don't want to wait for someone else to make a decision in order for me to move forward with my life.

 

So many talk about why the wife doesn't leave after DDay ~ but why doesn't the OW leave before Dday or even AFTER Dday when the man has chosen to "work on his marriage" or throw the OW under the bus or whatever.

 

I just want to make sure there isn't a double standard in the trashing of a wife who chooses to stay with the WS; but an OW is told to 'hang in there' .

 

The W at least has a history with the MM ~ possibly children. They more likely than not share a past, a home, family (extended family), pets, belongings, etc. More likely than not, the OW doesn't share those things with him. But again, the W is criticized for not leaving, but the OW doesn't leave either.

 

BACK to the original question.... I don't even remember what this thread was started about