Why are most women...

[moaningmyrtle]

quicker to forgive their spouse for cheating on them than the OW who was more than likely misled to begin with?

 

Because I don't know the OW and have no need to forgive her ever. I want to get to the stage where I don't give her a thought. Whereas I want to stay with my H and he with me. Some level of forgiveness is probably essential to us recovering our marriage no matter how badly he has behaved.

 

I believe that the BW was a friend of yours, is that right? You may find that she may never forgive you as your friendship is no longer important to her. If it is then maybe she will forgive you one day.

 

Just out of interest, where the OW does not really know the BW, would she (the OW) be interested in being forgiven anyway? I would have thought not. Any OW care to comment?

[bentnotbroken]

Question......did you and/or "Mr. Messy" attempt to reconcile? If I recall correctly, he did not make any efforts??

 

I cannot imagine the pain a BS feels but I admire and commend anyone who forgives for such transgressions, no matter what their reasons.

 

 

He wanted to come home. She dumped him. He is a liar and a cheat that I wouldn't trust in my life. If I don't trust you, there is no room for you. He made his choice when he chose to cheat.

[Fallen Angel]

Because I don't know the OW and have no need to forgive her ever. I want to get to the stage where I don't give her a thought. Whereas I want to stay with my H and he with me. Some level of forgiveness is probably essential to us recovering our marriage no matter how badly he has behaved.

 

I believe that the BW was a friend of yours, is that right? You may find that she may never forgive you as your friendship is no longer important to her. If it is then maybe she will forgive you one day.

 

Just out of interest, where the OW does not really know the BW, would she (the OW) be interested in being forgiven anyway? I would have thought not. Any OW care to comment?

 

 

Why should we bother to comment, you have all decided what we feel and how we think, and if we say anything to the contrary, we will be called liars anyway.. Carry On!

[Angel1111]

quicker to forgive their spouse for cheating on them than the OW who was more than likely misled to begin with?

 

A. The wife has more history with him.

 

B. The wife probably has a family with him.

 

C. The wife is so wounded by his betrayal of her that she doesn't know what to do; and she needs to know that he loves her.

 

D. Most OW don't get into the relationship with the expectation of remaining the OW, so she's less likely to be forgiving. She is usually heavily chased and seduced, and is usually led to believe that he is leaving his marriage.

[moaningmyrtle]

Why should we bother to comment, you have all decided what we feel and how we think, and if we say anything to the contrary, we will be called liars anyway.. Carry On!

 

As far as I can tell the question was asked by an OW, on the OW/M Forum, who perhaps wants to be forgiven by her former friend who is the BW in her situation.

 

The question was in effect inviting BW's to make a comparison between forgiveness of the WH and forgiveness of the OW. So I agree this would be a difficult question for OWs to answer unless they have been in that situation.

 

Also any forgiveness by the BW of the OW, probably requires certain assumptions on the part of the BW about the OW's role. My question was really about whether most OW would even want such forgiveness. It appear the OP does in this thread, but I'm unconvinced that it applies generally.

 

It is entirely up to you if can't be bothered to join the discussion or answer my question which I asked in good faith. There's no obligation.

[bentnotbroken]

Why should we bother to comment, you have all decided what we feel and how we think, and if we say anything to the contrary, we will be called liars anyway.. Carry On!

 

 

Who would the "you all" be?

[2sunny]

quicker to forgive their spouse for cheating on them than the OW who was more than likely misled to begin with?

 

i don't know about quicker... but some do try to forgive.

 

usually the effort comes because the couple has a history together. usually because at times the love was there but had become forgotten... sometimes because it's simply easier than starting over either alone or with someone new.

 

most of the time it is ultimately fear that drives any one of the reasons why a BS would consider forgiving.

[herenow]

Why should we bother to comment, you have all decided what we feel and how we think, and if we say anything to the contrary, we will be called liars anyway.. Carry On!

 

I would like to know why an OW would feel the need for forgiveness from the BW. I have no idea what the answer would be as I am not an OW, but I would be interested to know.

 

Like the other thread, about the OW felling bad or not about hurting the BW, I would find the answers interesting. Just a point of discussion. I would never call someone a liar for saying how they feel. I may not understand it, but your feelings are your feelings. Who am I to tell you otherwise? Believing and understanding are two different things.

[Fallen Angel]

I would like to know why an OW would feel the need for forgiveness from the BW. I have no idea what the answer would be as I am not an OW, but I would be interested to know.

 

Like the other thread, about the OW felling bad or not about hurting the BW, I would find the answers interesting. Just a point of discussion. I would never call someone a liar for saying how they feel. I may not understand it, but your feelings are your feelings. Who am I to tell you otherwise? Believing and understanding are two different things.

 

Because we know that we had a part in their pain, because we are human beings who (for the most part, I can't speak for all OW) don't set out to intentionally hurt someone else. Because when we accept our part in their pain we feel guilt, and with guilt comes the desire to be forgiven. It has been stated a few times in this thread that the OW doesn't care, because she never cared about hurting the BW in the first place. At least in MY case, that is simply untrue.

[herenow]

Because we know that we had a part in their pain, because we are human beings who (for the most part, I can't speak for all OW) don't set out to intentionally hurt someone else. Because when we accept our part in their pain we feel guilt, and with guilt comes the desire to be forgiven. It has been stated a few times in this thread that the OW doesn't care, because she never cared about hurting the BW in the first place. At least in MY case, that is simply untrue.

 

I think what you are seeing in those posts are the reaction to the numerous times that OW say that they don't owe the BW anything. We are consistently told that the MM is the one to blame because he is the one that broke his vows. The OW didn't break any vows and therefore she doesn't owe the BW the truth or any expination. I personally agree with this which is why I don't feel the need to ever deal with the OW. How do you feel about what other OW's have said about not owing the BW anything?

Edited January 12, 2010 by herenow

[Fallen Angel]

I think what you are seeing in those posts are the reaction to the numerous times that OW say that they don't owe the BW anything. We are consistently told that the MM is the one to blame because he is the ones that broke his vows. The OW didn't break any vows and therefore she doesn't owe the BW the truth or any expination. I personally agree with this which is why I don't feel the need to ever deal with the OW. How do you feel about what other OW's have said about not owing the BW anything?

 

I do think that too many times here we see BW lashing out at OW and seeming to make excuses for their husbands role in the affair.. and to that I will say that most (not all) OW will respond by saying that we did not "intrude" in their marriage like a thief breaking in to their well gaurded homes, we were invited in, with an open door, a warm embrace and sometimes them chasing us down the street after we walked past them waving us in...

 

That is where the "MM is the one who broke his vows" "I made no vow to her" kind of comments come from. Does that mean we hold no responsibility for the affair, or the pain that it causes to the BW? NO. They are two completely different things.

 

I accept my part in her pain. I am gulity of helping him to hurt her. But I did not set out to hurt her. I did not know her, I did not know OF her. That does not absolve me of my part in this. After I found out about her, I chose to stay in the affair, and for that I feel badly. It is not in my nature to ever purposely cause someone pain. BUT, I stand by the fact that I did NOT make a commitment to her, the betrayal for THAT is her husbands burden to carry, not mine.

 

I owe her my remorse, because she is a human being hurt by my choices, but not because HE broke his vow. Do you see the difference?

[herenow]

I do think that too many times here we see BW lashing out at OW and seeming to make excuses for their husbands role in the affair.. and to that I will say that most (not all) OW will respond by saying that we did not "intrude" in their marriage like a thief breaking in to their well gaurded homes, we were invited in, with an open door, a warm embrace and sometimes them chasing us down the street after we walked past them waving us in...

 

That is where the "MM is the one who broke his vows" "I made no vow to her" kind of comments come from. Does that mean we hold no responsibility for the affair, or the pain that it causes to the BW? NO. They are two completely different things.

 

I accept my part in her pain. I am gulity of helping him to hurt her. But I did not set out to hurt her. I did not know her, I did not know OF her. That does not absolve me of my part in this. After I found out about her, I chose to stay in the affair, and for that I feel badly. It is not in my nature to ever purposely cause someone pain. BUT, I stand by the fact that I did NOT make a commitment to her, the betrayal for THAT is her husbands burden to carry, not mine.

 

I owe her my remorse, because she is a human being hurt by my choices, but not because HE broke his vow. Do you see the difference?

 

No not really, but I am one that places the blame 100% on my H because the OW means nothing to me . Therefor, I don't feel she owes me anything and I don't feel I owe her forgiveness. She is not part of my life or marriage.

 

I don't think you can have it both ways. You can't really expect most BW to believe that an OW cares about the pain, but makes the choice to take part in the betrayal anyway. It's like saying: Well I knew this would hurt someone, but it makes me feel good, so I'm going to do it anyway. How is that caring for another person?

 

BTW, I find this very interesting. I hope you don't feel like I'm bashing you. I'm just having a conversation. If I'm making you uncomfortable, I will stop posting in this thread.

[Fallen Angel]

No not really, but I am one that places the blame 100% on my H because the OW means nothing to me . Therefor, I don't feel she owes me anything and I don't feel I owe her forgiveness. She is not part of my life or marriage.

 

I don't think you can have it both ways. You can't really expect most BW to believe that an OW cares about the pain, but makes the choice to take part in the betrayal anyway. It's like saying: Well I knew this would hurt someone, but it makes me feel good, so I'm going to do it anyway. How is that caring for another person?

 

BTW, I find this very interesting. I hope you don't feel like I'm bashing you. I'm just having a conversation. If I'm making you uncomfortable, I will stop posting in this thread.

 

So by your own statement, we can conclude that the WS doesn't really care about the BS? I mean, they have a much more intimate connection to the BS and they choose to take part in their betrayal anyway...

 

You can't have it both ways.. it is either possible to care and still be a part of it, or impossible.. so which is it??

[herenow]

So by your own statement, we can conclude that the WS doesn't really care about the BS? I mean, they have a much more intimate connection to the BS and they choose to take part in their betrayal anyway...

 

You can't have it both ways.. it is either possible to care and still be a part of it, or impossible.. so which is it??

 

I 100% believe that the MM having an affair cares most about himself. I don't think he really

loves or has a true connection to either woman.

[atlnay]

Why are most women...

quicker to forgive their spouse for cheating on them than the OW who was more than likely misled to begin with?

 

OW here, never married, but was "cheated" on before. I did the same thing, forgave him first because I still wanted to be with him and in the beginning saved ALL my anger for her. If SHE wasn't tempting him. If SHE would just go away. Then he did it again.

 

I had a talk with a friend who's college boyfriend cheated on her and she said she didn't even raise a fuss because she knew she wasn't going to leave him.

 

Sometimes it's easier to deal with the guy you are going to live with than forgive some random interchangeable person.

 

What I don't understand though is the forgiveness when the SO gets busted the 2nd, 3rd & 4th times and still being mad at the new OW(s). Really?

 

Then again, after reading this forum for the last 6 months & learning about the hard work of marriage, the shared history, the extended family, the traditions, the kids, the love etc are very hard thing to walk away from. On both sides.

 

So perhaps, in some cases, that is why it's easier to forgive the WS.

[atlnay]

I 100% believe that the MM having an affair cares most about himself. I don't think he really

loves or has a true connection to either woman.

 

I respectfully disagree. Barring anyone being a sex addict or clear sociopath, people have feelings.

 

Now if a man just upped and married any ole body then proceeded to sleep with half the church as he came down the aisle, then yes, I would agree with you wholeheartedly he cares only about himself (a bit of levity to lighten the mood)

 

But seriously, I've talked to a few guys who have stepped out on their wives and never got the impression they didn't really love them or didn't want to be with them. They just couldn't handle the weight of THEIR marriage & used the A as a crutch.

[2sunny]

I respectfully disagree. Barring anyone being a sex addict or clear sociopath, people have feelings.

 

Now if a man just upped and married any ole body then proceeded to sleep with half the church as he came down the aisle, then yes, I would agree with you wholeheartedly he cares only about himself (a bit of levity to lighten the mood)

 

But seriously, I've talked to a few guys who have stepped out on their wives and never got the impression they didn't really love them or didn't want to be with them. They just couldn't handle the weight of THEIR marriage & used the A as a crutch.

 

i've talked to A LOT of men and omen who have had affairs and i continuously hear that they are mainly thinking of themselves - what they want - and how it's usually justified in their mind.

 

 

I 100% believe that the MM having an affair cares most about himself.

 

herenow said MM is caring MOST about himself... never said care ONLY about himself. big difference. i also don't see an A as a crutch - i see it as justifying the means to get the end result that they want. some justify more than others.

 

sure MM have feelings - they are mostly feeling that they want to get whatever it is that they want - in that moment. no matter who gets hurt or what lies need to be told. then of course - the cover up and how to keep that all going along smoothly as well.

 

i'm sure in the heat of the moment - the MM isn't considering the best interest of his wife... and when he's sleeping at night with his W he's not considering how hurt the OW must feel at every moment without him.

 

how is that not about himself and selfish all the way around? he knows when the whole thing starts it's bound to hurt everyone involved and no one comes out a winner - how is that not selfish? if others are hurt in his selfish actions and he still does it - how is that NOT mostly about him - and what he wants - and doing anything to get what he wants? ya, i'd say that's mostly about him...

[atlnay]

i've talked to A LOT of men and omen who have had affairs and i continuously hear that they are mainly thinking of themselves - what they want - and how it's usually justified in their mind.

 

herenow said MM is caring MOST about himself... never said care ONLY about himself. big difference. i also don't see an A as a crutch - i see it as justifying the means to get the end result that they want. some justify more than others.

 

sure MM have feelings - they are mostly feeling that they want to get whatever it is that they want - in that moment. no matter who gets hurt or what lies need to be told. then of course - the cover up and how to keep that all going along smoothly as well.

 

i'm sure in the heat of the moment - the MM isn't considering the best interest of his wife... and when he's sleeping at night with his W he's not considering how hurt the OW must feel at every moment without him.

 

how is that not about himself and selfish all the way around? he knows when the whole thing starts it's bound to hurt everyone involved and no one comes out a winner - how is that not selfish? if others are hurt in his selfish actions and he still does it - how is that NOT mostly about him - and what he wants - and doing anything to get what he wants? ya, i'd say that's mostly about him...

 

lol ok...your talk A LOT of men and women beats my a few men hands down...u win...lol

[pureinheart]

Absolutely. If the OW cared what the BW felt, one way or another, she wouldn't be boning her H.

 

The BW is either irrelevant, or she matters. For those OW to whom the BW matters, they're in perpetual turmoil about the A, and usually bail before it eats them up completely. For those OW for whom the BW is irrelevant - post hoc remorse is, well, a case of too little too late to the BW, I'd guess.

 

Certainly there are the "sterio typical" A's, although some take some very strange twists and turns.

 

In some cases the W is not real to the OW for many reasons. In Some cases when the A is serious, whether the WS is lying or not, the OW sees herself as "New Woman" in his life, and actually doesnot see the M as real.

 

Personally I don't think the OW set out to hurt the BS, actually with what I have heard and seen , the BS is not even thought of, good, bad or indifferent.

 

In my previous line of work, the ratio was 1 female to about every 10 men....man I heard a lot of stories from the guys. Horror stories and I knew they were not lies. Their home lives were miserable and one guy even used to go on his roof to get away from being yelled at so much.

 

I think possibly if the OW sees a real bad home life it is harder to take the M seriously.

[pureinheart]

Just out of curiousity, just to add to Kizzy's OP which is on the same line, do any of the BS's ever take any responsibility for the A? Meaning could the BS have been a contributer directly or indirectly that led the WS look elsewhere?

[pureinheart]

I do think that too many times here we see BW lashing out at OW and seeming to make excuses for their husbands role in the affair.. and to that I will say that most (not all) OW will respond by saying that we did not "intrude" in their marriage like a thief breaking in to their well gaurded homes, we were invited in, with an open door, a warm embrace and sometimes them chasing us down the street after we walked past them waving us in...

 

That is where the "MM is the one who broke his vows" "I made no vow to her" kind of comments come from. Does that mean we hold no responsibility for the affair, or the pain that it causes to the BW? NO. They are two completely different things.

 

I accept my part in her pain. I am gulity of helping him to hurt her. But I did not set out to hurt her. I did not know her, I did not know OF her. That does not absolve me of my part in this. After I found out about her, I chose to stay in the affair, and for that I feel badly. It is not in my nature to ever purposely cause someone pain. BUT, I stand by the fact that I did NOT make a commitment to her, the betrayal for THAT is her husbands burden to carry, not mine.

 

I owe her my remorse, because she is a human being hurt by my choices, but not because HE broke his vow. Do you see the difference?

 

FA, personally I think this is the majority of A's. I really don't think that the BS's realise how they day by day, year by year push their S's away. Then when D-Day comes it's so easy to blame everything and everyone else...just to clarify, I say these words based on internet/non internet experiences.

 

Concerning this forum, and if I am wrong, please let me know, although I cannot remember a BS taking any form, even a small portion of responsibility for the A. I know this sounds like unusual concept, although I think it is relevent.

[silktricks]

Concerning this forum, and if I am wrong, please let me know, although I cannot remember a BS taking any form, even a small portion of responsibility for the A. I know this sounds like unusual concept, although I think it is relevent.

 

Every BS I know on this forum takes full responsibility for their part of the marital problems pre-affair. The MP, though, owns the A. Their choice to cheat instead of work the problem or divorce.

[pureinheart]

Every BS I know on this forum takes full responsibility for their part of the marital problems pre-affair. The MP, though, owns the A. Their choice to cheat instead of work the problem or divorce.

 

I never hear it, or read it. All I hear or read is anger towards OW or WS.

[pureinheart]

Also, most state that the ultimate form of betrayal is "cheating"....I do not agree, there are many forms of betrayal yet all I hear is the cheating part.

[Fallen Angel]

I never hear it, or read it. All I hear or read is anger towards OW or WS.

 

It does happen on a rare occasion. But I would have to say that MY experience on these boards is that the betrayed spouse rarely thinks that they should own any part of what happened.

 

Before I get beat up for it, I will say that NOTHING makes the cheating 'okay', but there are many things that happen in the marriage from both MPs that contribute to the affair. Most often, in my opinion, it is an emotional disconnect between the spouses, that rather than either of them putting in the effort to fix it, the betrayed party ignores, and the wayward party starts to look outside the marriage to find that connection.

 

If a man or woman cheats on their spouse, it is NOT because they have a perfect, wonderful marriage at home. It is because there is SOMETHING lacking at home. Often times the betrayed party feels that something is wrong, but rather than rock the boat, because they are 'mostly' happy, they continue on with the status quo.

 

I know that in my own marriage, I saw it coming. I tried to make changes, but was unable to be the person he thought I should be. I was still hurt when it happened, but I knew that part of it was my fault. I knew what he expected of me, and was not willing to live up to it. (Our morals and values were just too different.) But that was a choice I made, and one I must own.