Asking the right questions

[tojaz]

Been here for awhile now, have read a lot of threads and this will be my 2000th post. Most threads start the same way. How do I get him/her back? Tactics, plans, techniques. I see very few come out and ask the question that really needs to be answered...... why did they feel the need to leave? What made that the right decision for them?

 

Those questions always come up, but in my opinion they should be answered first! What was your part, what changed, what needs to change? Most importantly, are you willing or even able to change that? Should you have to?

 

LS is littered with stories of short lived reconciliations only to be shattered when all the same problems resurfaced. Nothing had been fixed. Nothing had been learned.

 

There are a lot of new names here, a lot of new lost souls just getting on this rollercoaster. I'm 9months since D-Day over 5 since the divorce was final and I'm just now starting to answer these questions, now that its too late.

 

Remember, its not about just bringing them home as fast as possible, its not about finding the quick fix, its about forever.

 

TOJAZ

Edited January 10, 2010 by tojaz

[alphamale]

...... why did they feel the need to leave? What made that the right decision for them?

no one can answer that except the person who left

[liftedcj7on44s]

Tojaz I have read some of your post along with alot of other's here. If it wasnt for this website I honestly probably would not be alive right now and I mean that. This website, My Job and the people there and my son are the 3 main things that have kept me going.

As far as how to ask the right questions? I firmly believe that from what I have learned from basically losing my first love, and from other advice on this website that there are no wrong or right answers. If they wanted to come back they would come back.

 

Asking the question, "why did you leave me"?

What can i do to make things better etc etc...

 

In my opinion once a partner leaves you high and dry, especially if there is a OW or Om then those questions should not need to be asked. If the other partner was a true genuine person that honestly loved you then they will let YOU know WHY. But since that person left you high and dry and is probably with someone else then i don't consider that person to be genuine and honest and the best thing to do is close the page from that chapter in your life and start a new chapter. Besides if they really loved you they would have not left to start with.

 

Since my wife left me 5 months ago it has been very hard. One thing that I started doing was I went out and bought a Guitar and am learning how to play. According to my wife I shouldnt be spending money on things that i want but that is honestly none of her business. I bought it because it helps ease the pain that I go through day in and day out and it helps.

 

Now I have started doing the 180. I am not doing it to try to win her back. Yes I would honestly like for her to come back but thats not in my control. I am doing the 180 for myself and my son.

 

In my case I have not seen my son in 3 1/2 months. I love him dearly. So this is what I ask myself everyday.

"are you willing to sacrifice the temporary for the eternal?"

Not seeing my son right now and not talking to him for months at a time really do hurt. But I always remember that one day he will know the truth and we will be reunited whether my STBXW and her parents like it or not.

 

So to all those here and out there. Work on yourself.

[Auroracoladybug]

 

LS is littered with stories of short lived reconciliations only to be shattered when all the same problems resurfaced. Nothing had been fixed. Nothing had been learned.

 

 

Remember, its not about just bringing them home as fast as possible, its not about finding the quick fix, its about forever.

 

TOJAZ

 

Tojaz better than anyone has followed my story and I update him more than my post...Bravo for a heartfelt post my friend...here is hoping that my reconciliation is successful . You are right when you say it is not the as fast as possible fix that will work...if you want forever then you have to commit to it for the long haul...the sucky part is that it takes both husband and wife to make improvements that last.

[gaudi]

 

Now I have started doing the 180. I am not doing it to try to win her back. Yes I would honestly like for her to come back but thats not in my control. I am doing the 180 for myself and my son.

 

 

Forgive my ignorance please. Playing guitar is a great from of stress relief once you know a few chords and how to put them together.

 

But The 180 ?? What is The 180 ??

[PWSX3]

There are so many things that can happen to change our path in life.

 

I feel part of it is us as "men" we are hunters so we hunt, find our woman & then do everything to keep them, but once we catch them then we as men feel the chase is over & why should we need to try anymore.

 

Whatever we do as men in dating & doing all the hunting we need to keep doing in a marriage.

 

In my case what did I NOT DO? I didn't listen plain and simple.

 

Even now my G/F will tell me something & I'll reply with one of my replies & she will say; instead of saying what you did, why couldn't you have just said yes, or ??????

 

My first reaction is to defend what I said; but then I stop myself (sometimes not right away but I'm getting better) and just say; thank you, or I'm sorry I didn't see it that way....Learning to listen to what she says without having to be right is SOOOOOOO BIG for me...

 

I'm sure Gunny is working on his book as we speak about this question.

[sotagoon]

 

Even now my G/F will tell me something & I'll reply with one of my replies & she will say; instead of saying what you did, why couldn't you have just said yes, or ??????

 

My first reaction is to defend what I said; but then I stop myself (sometimes not right away but I'm getting better) and just say; thank you, or I'm sorry I didn't see it that way....Learning to listen to what she says without having to be right is SOOOOOOO BIG for me...

 

 

Correct me if I mis-understand, but are you saying that you explain YOUR experience? (Similar)

 

I guess I'm guilty of this as well...it's just that I offer the information, not ot be right or an expert, just to say that in case she was thinking the same thing, I might be able to help.

 

I'd much rather be told...I love that you love me but, thanks but no thanks or you're full of it!

[tojaz]

Tojaz better than anyone has followed my story and I update him more than my post...Bravo for a heartfelt post my friend...here is hoping that my reconciliation is successful . You are right when you say it is not the as fast as possible fix that will work...if you want forever then you have to commit to it for the long haul...the sucky part is that it takes both husband and wife to make improvements that last.

Yes it does Ladybug, and that was my point. Looking at it from a different perspective. While seemingly the same answer there can be a big difference between what will make them come back and why did they leave. In the bigger picture, which is truly more important to you.

 

Glad to hear things are going well Ladybug, keep us posted!

 

There are so many things that can happen to change our path in life.

 

I feel part of it is us as "men" we are hunters so we hunt, find our woman & then do everything to keep them, but once we catch them then we as men feel the chase is over & why should we need to try anymore.

 

Whatever we do as men in dating & doing all the hunting we need to keep doing in a marriage.

 

In my case what did I NOT DO? I didn't listen plain and simple.

 

Even now my G/F will tell me something & I'll reply with one of my replies & she will say; instead of saying what you did, why couldn't you have just said yes, or ??????

 

My first reaction is to defend what I said; but then I stop myself (sometimes not right away but I'm getting better) and just say; thank you, or I'm sorry I didn't see it that way....Learning to listen to what she says without having to be right is SOOOOOOO BIG for me...

 

I'm sure Gunny is working on his book as we speak about this question.

 

Thats exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about PW and a big part of working on yourself.

I'm finding some of these things now, and while my D is done, I'm still glad to find these things in myself so that I can dig deeper and be better.

 

TOJAZ

[mimidarlin]

I've recently separated from my husband and I hope to reconcile. However, despite the pain and slight desperation I feel I agree with you. I want him to want to come back. I think there is the possibility of our relationship becoming better if we communicate. That is going to require counseling. It may not work but I think it is the only way that we both will try to understand what really went wrong. He's not introspective...he just knows he's not happy. He doesn't know what will make him happy.

 

I look at the life he is leading right now and I wonder how does he feel about it. He's back in living in a scummy apartment. All the appliances are nasty...no real furniture. He works like twelve hours a day because he doesn't have internet there and he needs it for work.

 

I will get the house and a decent settlement. He will be up a creek. But I won't have him and I love him. I want him to love me...I don't want him back because it's easier or cheaper for him.

 

He doesn't know if he wants reconciliation though. If he decides that he wants to come back will he be able to prove it to me? Will I always be filled with doubts and holding the past up to his face? That isn't fair or part of a healthy relationship.

 

I'm in pain but I don't want to poisoned by anger or jealousy.

 

I think it's important to figure out what went wrong if either of us hope to have a healthy relationship. That may not be with each other. The rates for divorce go up with 2nd and 3rd marriages. That just shocks me because logic would say we would learn from mistakes!!

[tojaz]

I've recently separated from my husband and I hope to reconcile. However, despite the pain and slight desperation I feel I agree with you. I want him to want to come back. I think there is the possibility of our relationship becoming better if we communicate. That is going to require counseling. It may not work but I think it is the only way that we both will try to understand what really went wrong. He's not introspective...he just knows he's not happy. He doesn't know what will make him happy.

I look at the life he is leading right now and I wonder how does he feel about it. He's back in living in a scummy apartment. All the appliances are nasty...no real furniture. He works like twelve hours a day because he doesn't have internet there and he needs it for work.

 

Sounds very much like mine, she even wrote too me almost those very words, that she knew she wasn't happy and changed what she could to be happy, as quick as possible. Didn't find out why or what and didn't give me a chance to find my part of her unhappiness, had to do that on my own after the fact. Now she is a respected proffesional in a scuzzy apartment, she has her work and as far as i know thats what her life has turned into.

Shes scraping by and I've already had to bail her out once yet this was what was right for her.

 

I will get the house and a decent settlement. He will be up a creek. But I won't have him and I love him. I want him to love me...I don't want him back because it's easier or cheaper for him.

 

He doesn't know if he wants reconciliation though. If he decides that he wants to come back will he be able to prove it to me? Will I always be filled with doubts and holding the past up to his face? That isn't fair or part of a healthy relationship.

 

I'm in pain but I don't want to poisoned by anger or jealousy.

 

I think it's important to figure out what went wrong if either of us hope to have a healthy relationship. That may not be with each other. The rates for divorce go up with 2nd and 3rd marriages. That just shocks me because logic would say we would learn from mistakes!!

 

If there is anything to take from going through this, it is that there is no logic. One would hope that we would learn from our mistakes, like the people that find this place, but truth is people rarely do, and what isn't resolved in going through the D is always carried to the next relationship.

TOJAZ

[floridapad]

Tojaz,

 

Brilliant post. I was thinking the same thing. Many people don't seem to go through the personal development and soul searching and true inner reflection regarding their relationship and themselves because they are so focused on getting their spouse back. All this talk of Homer's approach is great but IMHO the reconciliaiton will be short lived just using that approach. Educating ones self on relationships through reading "His needs her needs" "5 languages of love" etc etc seem to me, to be more substantive in the long run. But...... Homer's techniques and the 180's sure do well in the short run.

[FeelingLonely98]

I've recently separated from my husband and I hope to reconcile. However, despite the pain and slight desperation I feel I agree with you. I want him to want to come back. I think there is the possibility of our relationship becoming better if we communicate. That is going to require counseling. It may not work but I think it is the only way that we both will try to understand what really went wrong. He's not introspective...he just knows he's not happy. He doesn't know what will make him happy.

 

I look at the life he is leading right now and I wonder how does he feel about it. He's back in living in a scummy apartment. All the appliances are nasty...no real furniture. He works like twelve hours a day because he doesn't have internet there and he needs it for work.

 

I will get the house and a decent settlement. He will be up a creek. But I won't have him and I love him. I want him to love me...I don't want him back because it's easier or cheaper for him.

 

He doesn't know if he wants reconciliation though. If he decides that he wants to come back will he be able to prove it to me? Will I always be filled with doubts and holding the past up to his face? That isn't fair or part of a healthy relationship.

 

I'm in pain but I don't want to poisoned by anger or jealousy.

 

I think it's important to figure out what went wrong if either of us hope to have a healthy relationship. That may not be with each other. The rates for divorce go up with 2nd and 3rd marriages. That just shocks me because logic would say we would learn from mistakes!!

 

Sounds very much like mine, she even wrote too me almost those very words, that she knew she wasn't happy and changed what she could to be happy, as quick as possible. Didn't find out why or what and didn't give me a chance to find my part of her unhappiness, had to do that on my own after the fact. Now she is a respected proffesional in a scuzzy apartment, she has her work and as far as i know thats what her life has turned into.

Shes scraping by and I've already had to bail her out once yet this was what was right for her.

 

If there is anything to take from going through this, it is that there is no logic. One would hope that we would learn from our mistakes, like the people that find this place, but truth is people rarely do, and what isn't resolved in going through the D is always carried to the next relationship.

TOJAZ

 

Both of your posts sound identical to my story as well. Except the STBXW can't even afford her own apt. almost 5 months after leaving. Still living in her Mom's crummy 2 BR apt. She Says she is not happy - at least a few months ago last time we REALLY talked thats what she said. But she was (and still is?) 100 % certain she did not want the M anymore. Well, we'll be divorced in 38 days. I get the house, all of my assets, and she keeps her debts and gets no alimony. ALL her choice and request. I will never understand why she wouldn't give it a shot after d-day. (What did she have to lose?) It was probably been building up so long that there was no turning back. Oh well, it has been completely over for me for several months now and I would not reconcile even under the most ideal circumstances. (trust, deceit, security, my heart, ... all factors). AND, you know what? I feel very happy these days. Better than in years!!

I hope you both (and other heartbroken souls) can get to where I am one day. Especially you Tojaz. You gave me some incredibly great advice this past Summer and Autumn. Excuse me if this sounds too forward but I feel that you can not or do not apply some of these same suggstions you give others - or is it that you do try and you just can not move to that better place? It's almost as if you just don't want to let go. I do NOT mean this as criticism TOJAZ. Just that my heart goes out to you when you write another gut wrenching new thread. I think wow - TOJAZ is no better off than he was when I started on LS. You deserve to be happy dude! IDK, maybe you are doing this right - maybe it should be an extremely long slow process to really fix ourselves (or at least truly better ourselves - we may never really "fix" ourselves, huh?)

 

All that being said - YES, both of you are right that we absolutely HAVE to fix ourselves and our issues and our knowledge about relationships before we can ever expect to have a healthy relationship again. D rates would go down in 2nd marriages if folks did this more frequently.

 

PEACE!

Edited January 11, 2010 by FeelingLonely98

[Elizabrary]

I have to say that for me, to get me through this, the right questions are: how do I get past this relationship? How do I move forward with my life and what is best for me? In the past I have asked what did I do wrong? How can I get him back? And all that has ever gotten me is right back where I started. This time I'm trying to approach things differently and move forward, leaving him behind so I can have a better life!

[tojaz]

Tojaz,

 

Brilliant post. I was thinking the same thing. Many people don't seem to go through the personal development and soul searching and true inner reflection regarding their relationship and themselves because they are so focused on getting their spouse back. All this talk of Homer's approach is great but IMHO the reconciliaiton will be short lived just using that approach. Educating ones self on relationships through reading "His needs her needs" "5 languages of love" etc etc seem to me, to be more substantive in the long run. But...... Homer's techniques and the 180's sure do well in the short run.

 

Thanks Florida, you hit the nail on the head of what i was thinking. The Homer technique, the 180, they're fantastic tools, gets you in the same room, opens up the lines of communication, but it can't stop there, if nothing is learned from the time apart then it will be only temporary.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Thanks Florida, you hit the nail on the head of what i was thinking. The Homer technique, the 180, they're fantastic tools, gets you in the same room, opens up the lines of communication, but it can't stop there, if nothing is learned from the time apart then it will be only temporary.

TOJAZ

 

I agree, I think they are good tools for getting the ws open to reconciliation (which given they generally are not means having little option but to use these tecniques at first), but once they are open to it, then the real work starts.

 

FB, I know you meant your post to Tojaz in a positive way, but take it form someone who has been here almost from the start with him, he is making progress, it seems to me that you Tojaz are just trying to figure out how your relationship broke down so you can avoid it happenening in the next one?

 

The only word of caution I would give is that you can never truely know why a walk away leaves, that's the problem with walk aways. If a spouse had left with love, first trying to resolve, MC, etc then you would know why and chances are, although you would still hurt, you would be in a position to be accepting of it far more quickly. So although it may be helpful to look at yourself, like PW says, your xw did not give you a thourgh explanation or a befitting exit and therefore no real basis for you to figure these things out.

[tojaz]

I hope you both (and other heartbroken souls) can get to where I am one day. Especially you Tojaz. You gave me some incredibly great advice this past Summer and Autumn. Excuse me if this sounds too forward but I feel that you can not or do not apply some of these same suggstions you give others - or is it that you do try and you just can not move to that better place? It's almost as if you just don't want to let go. I do NOT mean this as criticism TOJAZ. Just that my heart goes out to you when you write another gut wrenching new thread. I think wow - TOJAZ is no better off than he was when I started on LS. You deserve to be happy dude! IDK, maybe you are doing this right - maybe it should be an extremely long slow process to really fix ourselves (or at least truly better ourselves - we may never really "fix" ourselves, huh?)

 

Not to forward at all FL. I learned most of the advice i give the hard way. Usually by doing it wrong. I throw it out here so others don't make the same mistakes. Your exactly right FL, despite all my advice and the things I read, I still find it hard to let go. It takes time and with the pain, I'm still learning and thats something positive i can take from this hell so i want to get as much as i can. I look at it like a fine piece of art. It took me 13 years to assemble it and now it has to come apart. Many choose to just let it topple or smash it to pieces, for me it deserves just as much care in being dismantled. Not necessarily just for her but for respect for the relationship and what it meant to me.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Tojaz, I'm trying to reply to your PM but you need to clear out your inbox, says it is full and you can't recieve any more PM's!

[tojaz]

I have to say that for me, to get me through this, the right questions are: how do I get past this relationship? How do I move forward with my life and what is best for me? In the past I have asked what did I do wrong? How can I get him back? And all that has ever gotten me is right back where I started. This time I'm trying to approach things differently and move forward, leaving him behind so I can have a better life!

 

I remember your story Elizabrary. Sometimes the answers to those questions take you out of an unhealthy relationship. There are always going to be marriages that need to end for valid reasons. Would never deny that.

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

Tojaz, I'm trying to reply to your PM but you need to clear out your inbox, says it is full and you can't recieve any more PM's!

 

Sorry Lis, all set

[Gunny376]

Again from the Gunny a couple of book recommendations.

 

The first is "Me! Five Years From Now" Its not a book that you so much read? As is a book that has a lot of questions that provoke thought about who and what you are along with who and what you want to become.

 

That is to say? That you will need to get a spiral bound notebook and actually write out the answers to the questions that the book poses to you. In other words its a workbook about discovering who you are, what you are, what your about, and who you won't to be and become.

 

The second is "The Art of Living Single" and finally "Living Alone and Loving It"

 

The fact of the matter is that half of all first time marriages end in divorce. The divorce rate for second marriages is 62 %. The divorce rate for third marriages is a whopping 72% ~ (Once divorced the mindset it that "If this wasn't doesn't work out? I'll get out the same way as I did the last one!" That and once having gone threw a divorce? The second one isn't so bad? )

 

Your fault, her fault ~ doesn't matter. You like I lacked the maturity, the knowledge, the experience to pull it off to begin with ~ and even if we did have all that working for us?

 

There's the "wild card" variable to the equation?

 

People change.

 

Who and what your are, what you prioritize in life in your twenties is very much different than say your forties or fifties.

 

It doesn't even have to be that much. Who and what you are and what's important to you in life is going to be very much different five years from now than it is now.

 

That's because we're the sum total of our total life experiences. Who we are combined with what we experience makes us who we are.

 

I would be a totally different person than I am now had I never married, had I joined the Navy instead of the Marines, had I never become a father, had I stayed married rather than divorced?

 

The fact of the matter is that most people are not LTR material.

 

Its like becoming a billionaire. Enough people pull it off that we all think we can do it.

 

The fact of the matter is that half of all first time marriages end in divorce, of the remaining half?

 

Only 13% report they're happily married. Of the remaining 37% ~ they're staying together because of the status quo, the children, religious beliefs, finances etc ~ but they're not happy.

 

In order for a LTR/Marriage to succeed?

 

Requires excitement, passion, fun, positivity, being pro-active, keeping things balance.

 

Understanding that men aren't women and women aren't men.

 

That women's and men's brains are literally hard wired differently ~ that they communicate differently.

 

From what I've read about men, women and sex? Yea I would hate it to were I woman. Who wants to be a sperm depository bank? (Read "How To Satisfy A Woman Every time and have her beg for more!" ~ its really not that complicated and you don't need to memorize the Kama Sutra)

 

Though they won't admit it!

 

A lot of women just want to be traditional wives and stay at home Moms.

 

But there's the societal and cultural BS to out do the Jones' ~ this whole competitiveness thing. This whole "Keeping up with the Jones'" thing!

 

This whole three car garage and still adding on mentality. Having the in ground pool, living in the right neighborhood, climbing up the corporate ladder/food chain. Getting published, accepted, recognized.................

 

When it really comes down to one thing!

 

One man loving one woman!

[tojaz]

But there's the societal and cultural BS to out do the Jones' ~ this whole competitiveness thing. This whole "Keeping up with the Jones'" thing!

 

This whole three car garage and still adding on mentality. Having the in ground pool, living in the right neighborhood, climbing up the corporate ladder/food chain. Getting published, accepted, recognized.................

When it really comes down to one thing!

 

One man loving one woman!

 

Gunny, I don't know how you do it, but you have no idea how close you are, this exact thought is where I lost my way. I've been tossing it around in my head for quite awhile, since new years and that old seiko watch! In the quest for so much more, I lost sight of that one thing. So intent on giving enough, doing enough, lost sight of LOVING enough and appreciating what I had rather then looking for more. Thinking.............

TOJAZ

[FeelingLonely98]

I have to say that for me, to get me through this, the right questions are: how do I get past this relationship? How do I move forward with my life and what is best for me? In the past I have asked what did I do wrong? How can I get him back? And all that has ever gotten me is right back where I started. This time I'm trying to approach things differently and move forward, leaving him behind so I can have a better life!

 

Good for you. You will feel more alive and happier - trust me. If you ever reconcile you will be a better person for it. If not you will still be a better person! Otherwise, it will be a rollercoaster ride for who knows how long and almost never do these things work out, i.e., the % of successful reconciliations is so low ... YOU need to take care of YOU.

 

Good Luck!

 

PEACE!

[FeelingLonely98]

Gunny - GREAT post - AGAIN!!! Thanks.

[mimidarlin]

I am grateful that my husband still cares for me. He cares a lot but doesn't know if it is enough to stay married. Love, passion, intimacy...I need these as well. Trust is a huge factor. I violated his trust in the past but he broke my heart. He was my best friend...I don't want to lose both relationships.

 

I am learning...I am maturing...I'm more confident in many ways.

[trippi1432]

Gunny, I don't know how you do it, but you have no idea how close you are, this exact thought is where I lost my way. I've been tossing it around in my head for quite awhile, since new years and that old seiko watch! In the quest for so much more, I lost sight of that one thing. So intent on giving enough, doing enough, lost sight of LOVING enough and appreciating what I had rather then looking for more. Thinking.............

TOJAZ

 

Then why are you on here, one of you has to drop their pride long enough to make it work. I know you well enough to tell you this.....your marriage was very much like mine on opposite spectrums (and yeah, maybe a little less abusive and with much better times that I've ever known) BUT, if you would both let go of your pride, you could be one. It's something me and my husband couldn't do. Let your past be gone!! Move to a new realm of loving each other for just each other and be proud of who you each are today....the only person who can make you feel weak is you (believe me I know that and I fight it everyday and so did my ex).

 

I know it's much easier said than done, but you have come far my friend....I couldn't say that if I didn't care that much about you...stop stalling and do what in your heart you know is right. If she is the "fight" you are in, you need to plan your strategy with no distractions. You've come far and you are learning more everyday....dont' harbor the past...make a new future with her....that is the next step.

 

All my love,

 

Mia