The Not-so-secret

[You'reasian]

All of my male friends have expressed having some problem with women who hate men at one point or another. When I look around here, I see lots of men who hate women, but I haven't noticed a man-hating woman yet! Actually, I've never personally met a woman who hates men.

 

Whether you're male or female, angry or desperate, I'd like to ask you all to consider something...

 

Who wants to be with a mean, angry, and unhappy person? I get it. You've been treated poorly and you've had bad experiences. But when you carry that around with you it shows. These things do show in your temperament, body language, and so forth. How you feel dictates how you carry yourself. Often times, other people can pick up subtleties that you didn't even know you were sending out into the world.

 

A-hole does not equal strong. Most of the times it's pretty obvious that you're overcompensating. Determined not to be hurt again? Okay... but does it even work?

 

Hopefully this is a helpful picture...

 

SADOMASOCHISM.

 

The jerk is just as weak as the doormat. Both are like parasites feeding off of one another. Relationships are based on what you give and what you get being in some sort of "balance". When that balance changes, how you relate to one another changes... so does the relationship. Usually, it begins to fall apart.

 

Male or female... one party needs another person to suffer their abuses. It makes him/her feel strong, in control, and loved. The other party needs approval, and often times a difficult subject in order to feel as though they've earned/won something.

 

But what happens when the masochist starts to feel there wasn't any benefit to all of his/her hard work? All of a sudden this person is angry over the sadist that he/she chose... yet doesn't quite see it that way...

 

What you are has much to do with what you attract So, tell me... why continue to walk into a brick wall? Because it's fun?

 

I love women! And I tend to avoid women who harbor anti-male sentiment. If a woman doesn't like or appreciate what I do, its her. I move on to find one that does

[and.then.some]

Am tired of typing out QED. But your replies to my original reply, and the continued attempt to discredit my POV because, as you repeat over and over, I am somehow hyper-emotional and insulting about this issue , are the best possible evidence of the validity of the points I've tried to make in this thread. So thanks for making my case for me. Keep up the good work.

 

This is rather ridiculous. Your point was that looks get your farther and that repeating the same nonsense that other people say about looks versus attitude is not going to make a difference.

 

I addressed that, more than once in this thread, and very clearly too. However, you've never refuted the points I've made, and this just leaves me to believe that you are not seeing the points I made because you don't want to.

 

I respond and you say it's rubbish, I respond and you say it explains nothing. If you don't get it, then heaven help you because I most certainly cannot.

[and.then.some]

I love women! And I tend to avoid women who harbor anti-male sentiment. If a woman doesn't like or appreciate what I do' date=' its her. I move on to find one that does [/quote']

 

Nice! And that's the best attitude to have!

[You'reasian]

Nice! And that's the best attitude to have!

 

Its true. No one's on the same page.

 

Some women are only going to love men for certain things - hopefully things that make for a great long-term relationship - but its about them, their wants and their needs.

 

Likewise, I decide the character traits that mean the most to me about women. If they don't have them and if we're not on the same page, its time to talk and maybe part ways.

[and.then.some]

Meekrat -

 

Hmm, I never got bored with the things that made me happy. I believe people can be content with what they have if what they have makes them happy.

 

It doesn't have to be higher, faster, bigger, etc.

 

There were achievements that caused that emotion and made me happy. Being good at sports made me happy. And being in a loving relationship made me happy.

 

I forgot this part...

 

As I wasn't speaking of you personally, I'm wondering are you addressing this in a personal manner because you some how feel that it applies to you?

 

There is momentary happiness when something good happens, and sometimes it can last for a long while. We can be happy with the new renovations in the bathroom, but after awhile... I'll need to re grout, re tile and everything else. That's the problem with the happiness that comes from things.

 

Maybe instead of some general happiness, I should describe it as "joy".

 

People are saying "oh well my dog always makes me happy, I'm not sad about that". And maybe if you've never just been generally happy you don't know what I'm talking about. (I don't mean you specifically, but in general.)

 

When I'm speaking of happiness, I'm talking about joy in your life. I don't mean something that's event or item specific. Some people snag their new sweater and it ruins their entire day. Other people snag their new sweater, and while they're disappointed about it.... well, life happens, and they keep smiling.

 

Some people are a ray of sunshine, and everyday you'd think they just won the lottery or at least has really hott morning sex. Other people walk about life like there's a dark cloud hanging over their head. They may not realize it, but other people do.

 

A friend of mine commented about how guys are always asking her why she looks so sad or so mean. This was a while back, and I had talked to her about seeming more approachable and such. It was so serious in fact that even my boyfriend at the time asked "is she always like that" when she hadn't even done or said anything really.

 

Happiness. Joy. Whatever you want to call it. It either is or isn't written all over your face, even if you don't realize it.

 

I am certainly not happy with my love life if I am not in a loving relationship. I can't replace that happiness with something else.

 

When I am indifferent towards most people (except for friends and family), it means I don't pay attention to those around me and thus it can't hurt nor help me. If there is no interaction, there is no positive or negative.

 

Do you mean a loving romantic relationship? As I stated above, I'm speaking of a general happiness.

 

I'm not sure how what you've said about your indifferent attitude ties into what I've said.

[and.then.some]

Its true. No one's on the same page.

 

Some women are only going to love men for certain things - hopefully things that make for a great long-term relationship - but its about them, their wants and their needs.

 

Likewise, I decide the character traits that mean the most to me about women. If they don't have them and if we're not on the same page, its time to talk and maybe part ways.

 

Exactly! This is so personal to me, I think, because the people around me are all so taken in by appearances. I don't mean that it's always in a very obviously selfish way, but that they're so excited over the basics that they aren't really looking at the general character.

 

To me, even though physical attraction may be the first thing that brings two people together, very soon after this both parties should be trying to get a good idea of who they're sitting across from at dinner. It's not always merely how he/she answers which questions, but how he behaves and so forth in. Seeing the behavior as something specific instead of some general difference in personality. This is how they (both male and female) dismiss all of those red flags in the very beginning.

[You'reasian]

Exactly! This is so personal to me, I think, because the people around me are all so taken in by appearances. I don't mean that it's always in a very obviously selfish way, but that they're so excited over the basics that they aren't really looking at the general character.

 

To me, even though physical attraction may be the first thing that brings two people together, very soon after this both parties should be trying to get a good idea of who they're sitting across from at dinner. It's not always merely how he/she answers which questions, but how he behaves and so forth in. Seeing the behavior as something specific instead of some general difference in personality. This is how they (both male and female) dismiss all of those red flags in the very beginning.

 

Time together is key. Casual conversation and questions can only reveal so much.

[cognac]

What an odd coincidence that all of the people on here who talk about the significance of attitude are pretty satisfied with their lives, and those who most vehemently reject that concept are pretty pissed off. If I didn't know better, I'd think there was a connection.[/Quote]

 

What an odd coincidence that the vast majority of people who spout that BS are either (most likely average to good looking) women or tall handsome successful guys. Do you really think if we average men had it as easy in terms of finding opposite sex companionship , we would have "negative" attitudes? The thing is it's easy to believe your attitude is all that matters when people constantly are responding and reinforcing that, but the truth is that this is due to your looks. Most guys here will attest to the tall "Hot" fratboy with an awful and negative attitude getting sexually assaulted by women wherever he goes , while the average, decent and interesting guys with positive attitudes are overlooked again and again. THIS creates the mentality that A) it's the negative attitudes of the guys getting all the chicks that women like (I don't think this is entirely true) B) Attitude doesn't matter it's 9/10th's about looks. I think B is the most accurate assessment.

 

I'm sure everyone has tried "have a positive attitude" crap atleast once. If anything, this gets you ignored by women EVEN MORE unless you are tall and "HOT".

[and.then.some]

What an odd coincidence that the vast majority of people who spout that BS are either (most likely average to good looking) women or tall handsome successful guys. Do you really think if we average men had it as easy in terms of finding opposite sex companionship , we would have "negative" attitudes? The thing is it's easy to believe your attitude is all that matters when people constantly are responding and reinforcing that, but the truth is that this is due to your looks. Most guys here will attest to the tall "Hot" fratboy with an awful and negative attitude getting sexually assaulted by women wherever he goes , while the average, decent and interesting guys with positive attitudes are overlooked again and again. THIS creates the mentality that A) it's the negative attitudes of the guys getting all the chicks that women like (I don't think this is entirely true) B) Attitude doesn't matter it's 9/10th's about looks. I think B is the most accurate assessment.

 

I'm sure everyone has tried "have a positive attitude" crap atleast once. If anything, this gets you ignored by women EVEN MORE unless you are tall and "HOT".

 

Once again, the most important question is forgotten. What types of women are "assaulting" the sexy jock with the bad attitude? What are their personalities like? Their values? Their goals? People seem to be looking at all others of the opposite sex who meet some general list of requirements as being the same, when it could not be farther from the truth.

 

I'd rather have one nice car than 50 beaters.

[cognac]

Once again, the most important question is forgotten. What types of women are "assaulting" the sexy jock with the bad attitude? What are their personalities like? Their values? Their goals? People seem to be looking at all others of the opposite sex who meet some general list of requirements as being the same, when it could not be farther from the truth. [/Quote]In my experience? Women of all kinds. Women with crappy, great, average, etc looks and personalities. Women from all kinds of social standings and belief systems. Yes, ALL women (in a generalized sense) are shooting for these guys. The sad fact is that women under 30 would rather play second fiddle waiting for the window of opportunity to date one or be used for sex by the caricatures I've painted over dating a guy in their own league who has a lot more to offer them, regardless of attitude. Women who I'd never imagine would be interested in this type of "man", surprise me every day by lusting after them like there's no tomorrow.

 

Women who don't, it's because they cannot. The fratboys laugh in their face. These women instead of dating guys in their league or who share their interests, will just stay single until some fratboy-type guy shows interest in them one day.

[and.then.some]

In my experience? Women of all kinds. Women with crappy, great, average, etc looks and personalities. Women from all kinds of social standings and belief systems. Yes, ALL women (in a generalized sense) are shooting for these guys. The sad fact is that women under 30 would rather play second fiddle waiting for the window of opportunity to date one or be used for sex by the caricatures I've painted over dating a guy in their own league who has a lot more to offer them, regardless of attitude. Women who I'd never imagine would be interested in this type of "man", surprise me every day by lusting after them like there's no tomorrow.

 

Mark this down as Rule #1...

 

Regardless of hobbies, religion, profession, age, or general attractiveness... The woman who goes for the pretty face and a bad personality has much maturing to do, and, often, much self-esteem to gain. The same is said for the men.

 

Again... Do you want a woman who would be willing to play second fiddle? Is that the kind of woman you're interested in? If not, then how is she even factored into the equation?

 

Women who don't, it's because they cannot. The fratboys laugh in their face. These women instead of dating guys in their league or who share their interests, will just stay single until some fratboy-type guy shows interest in them one day.

Wait... wait... what?! Are you seriously trying to tell me that you believe a woman can't be both beautiful and actually have standards for the character of the man she wants to be with? That's absolutely absurd.

 

Why are you talking about those types of women anyway? That's the problem. Obviously you're not in their "league" and it frustrates you. Yet, it would seem that your perception is seriously off balance!

 

Not only are you trying to paint all women as shallow creatures, all attractive women at that!... But you're also overly focused on the types of women you shouldn't even be thinking twice about!

 

My guess is that you fall into the category that I described a little earlier. A guy who thinks he's cool, but wants the girl who thinks she's even cooler, who wants the guy who thinks he's just the best. (For the record, whatever is "cool" or "cooler" is all up to individual perception. I don't mean for anything here to be insulting in anyway.) Once you realize that you're doing the same thing they're doing, you'll be much better off. The women you're interested in aren't interested in you because they're looking to something "better". And, I'm willing to bet that you're not interested in the women who are interested in you for the very same reason.

 

The funny thing about it is that it has more to do with lifestyle and social circles than it does your overall appearance.

 

So, the only thing that's encouraging you still is that these women don't just totally laugh in your face? (What applies to the one applies to the other) You're doing the same thing you're accusing them of.

 

It's like the women who say that "all men want a woman who x.y.z". It's not true. The truth is that all the men they're chasing or drooling over want x,y,z.

Edited January 9, 2010 by and.then.some

[Stockalone]

I forgot this part...

 

As I wasn't speaking of you personally, I'm wondering are you addressing this in a personal manner because you some how feel that it applies to you?

 

When I was using a general approach, you said I was being too general.

 

So I tried to use my own perspective to make it more specific.

 

Do I feel your posts apply to me personally? Yes and no. Some parts apply, some don't.

 

I apologize for not responding to rest of your thorough reply. I read your reply, but I fail to understand where you are going with this or why you even started this thread. I'd have to ask for clarification every other sentence.

[and.then.some]

When I was using a general approach, you said I was being too general.

 

So I tried to use my own perspective to make it more specific.

 

Do I feel your posts apply to me personally? Yes and no. Some parts apply, some don't.

 

I apologize for not responding to rest of your thorough reply. I read your reply, but I fail to understand where you are going with this or why you even started this thread. I'd have to ask for clarification every other sentence.

 

That's my mistake. At the top, I put Meekrat's SN. I had skimmed a page and noticed the end of a post that I had not answered or put in quotes and responded thinking it was to him. So, that's my mistake if what I was saying to you did not make sense. However, when I said you were being too general, it was about a specific comment.

 

I wouldn't say that I'm trying to go anywhere at all here. I've merely responded to the replies to my OP. You asked about happiness, and I replied.

 

I created the thread because it's kind of... upsetting in a way to see so many people so bent out of shape over some of the same things. It's really sad to see so many people with such a gloomy view (which does more harm than good), or having such difficulty seeing in other people what should be very plain.

 

I have to have this talk with a friend every 3 months or so. A couple of times I've had this talk with as many as 4 people in the same time frame. Then I come here, and it's all the same stuff! I guess the reality of the matter is that it takes time and experience, as well as willingness, before anyone really gets it.

[Stockalone]

That's my mistake. At the top, I put Meekrat's SN. I had skimmed a page and noticed the end of a post that I had not answered or put in quotes and responded thinking it was to him. So, that's my mistake if what I was saying to you did not make sense. However, when I said you were being too general, it was about a specific comment.

 

No worries.

 

 

I wouldn't say that I'm trying to go anywhere at all here. I've merely responded to the replies to my OP. You asked about happiness, and I replied.

 

I created the thread because it's kind of... upsetting in a way to see so many people so bent out of shape over some of the same things. It's really sad to see so many people with such a gloomy view (which does more harm than good), or having such difficulty seeing in other people what should be very plain.

 

I have to have this talk with a friend every 3 months or so. A couple of times I've had this talk with as many as 4 people in the same time frame. Then I come here, and it's all the same stuff! I guess the reality of the matter is that it takes time and experience, as well as willingness, before anyone really gets it.

 

I am sorry but I don't understand that either. Well, it really doesn't matter as I have nothing else to contribute to your thread anyway.

 

Maybe that proves the point of your thread. Best of luck with your thread.

[PinkToes]

What an odd coincidence that the vast majority of people who spout that BS are either (most likely average to good looking) women or tall handsome successful guys.

 

Not true, at least in my case. I don't get a lot of attention from men, and I have no idea whether that's because it isn't happening or because I'm so oblivious to the whole thing. Doesn't really matter; my self worth isn't based on how others treat me.

 

But if that's your reality, the only thing that really counts is how you choose to handle the situation. There are an awful lot of people who have damn good reasons to be bitter about things -- situations much worse than either of us have experienced -- and aren't. Sh*t happens. You're certainly not alone in being dissatisfied; I've gone through some pretty nasty stuff as well. But I refuse to be defined by that.

 

If it makes you feel better to vent, then fire away. But if that isn't working, maybe you should consider a different course of action.

[Els]

Care to share why?

 

Because it's like comparing rape to sex.