rina_r Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 ugh...religion is such mind control. It causes wars, fights and lots of trouble. When religion is no more, the world could be at peace. Tell your wife to suck it up and find more serious issues to worry about. If she would a "real" christian, she would accept everyone's ways. the end! Agree. I am an atheistand I dont think I could be with someone religious. They always tend to inflict their views on others.
reservoirdog1 Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Who knows, maybe it's something like "The Force" LOL, I always tend to think of "the Shwartz" ... you know, Mel Brooks? More along my line of thinking :lmao:
reservoirdog1 Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 In this thread, people are coming from a wide variety of angles & points of view. I don't yet know what I'm going to do, but I know for sure I won't feign belief. While I could easily feign belief when it comes to some people, others know how intelligent I am and wouldn't recognize my feigned belief as real. I'm going to have to have a heart to heart chat with my wife. However, she gets irate anytime I bring the subject up - so I wouldn't be surprised if the chat doesn't last long, in which case I'll have to write her a note. I've even suggested we meet together with a pastor, but she is against the idea. I'm just puzzled why or how someone could let religion take such hold over their life. Give up a Sunday morning every week for the rest of your life. Go out and go for a walk in the park. That's got to be more healthy for your mind, body and soul than sitting in church. I commend you for staying true to yourself. I agree, you shouldn't convert just to make her happy. Surely any sane pastor you spoke to on the subject would agree with that -- you should only convert if you're doing it honestly and genuinely, from the heart. Somehow, I doubt their god would want church members who only converted for the sake of appearances, or to make their wives happy, and who don't believe in the church genuinely. I find it a bit disturbing that she gets pissed at you whenever you raise the subject, and refuses to speak with a pastor together about it. I echo what somebody else asked -- how old is she? Because she's demonstrating a very juvenile mindset about the whole thing. Basically, the only way you can possibly avoid a conflict with her over this is by shutting up and doing what she wants you to do -- which goes against your beliefs, morals and principles because you would be a hypocrite, nothing more. Since you can't simply submit to her wishes on this, I don't think there's any choice but to have a conflict over it, to some degree. As long as you keep your cool, assure her that you respect her faith but that you don't share it, and make it clear that you are willing to work with her to deal with the (possibly nonexistent) social embarassment factor in a mutually satisfactory way (how about having the people at church who have supposedly asked her about your faith around for a barbecue?), then you'll have acted appropriately and can't, in my opinion, be faulted. This may not be enough for her, and she may still become irate. But at least you'll have met the issue head-on. It will then start to become clear whether or not this issue is a dealbreaker for the two of you. And it's way better to know that now, rather than a few years and a few kids later after you've put up with much more of her pressure on this.
D-Lish Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Hi G, I've spent the better part of my life having to defend myself for being an Atheist. Certain family members, strangers on a plane, ex-inlaws- I can't tell you how many times I've been admonished for my own personal belief system. It drives me crazy. Your wife seems to carry aound a self righteous attitude without even knowing anything about the Doctrine she claims to adhere to. I think you've been patient and understanding regarding her belief system- yet she is not giving you the same consideration in return. I would find it terribly frustrating to deal with the temper and lack of compromise. You've even suggested to meet with her pastor to help you two resolve things! I don't know many people that would be that accomodating in the same situation.
NoIDidn't Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Almost every post either supports religion or challenges its validity. I am going to tell you what is really going on (How arrogant?! I know ) Someone has your W's ear. There is someone she wants to impressed with how "saved" and "holy" her H is. And your lack of conversion, your not talking the "Jesus is my Lord and Savior" talk is making her look bad to someone. Someone who apparently letting her know more frequently. I am of the "Jesus is MY Lord" camp. I remember when my H and I first got married too. He too is Christian, but not of the same upbringing church-wise. My background includes Pentacostal, his Episcopalian. See where we ran into difficulties even though we settled on Baptist? LOL. I was baptized. He promised me that he would one day. Well, to date, he has not done so. And it doesn't matter to me anymore. I learned to stop letting others' expectations of my marriage, myself, or my H interfere with my thoughts on the matter. Ask your W why its so important that you convert now. I'm almost certain you will find out its because she is trying to keep up with someone else in church.
taiko Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Almost every post either supports religion or challenges its validity. I am going to tell you what is really going on (How arrogant?! I know ) Someone has your W's ear. There is someone she wants to impressed with how "saved" and "holy" her H is. And your lack of conversion, your not talking the "Jesus is my Lord and Savior" talk is making her look bad to someone. Someone who apparently letting her know more frequently. I am of the "Jesus is MY Lord" camp. I remember when my H and I first got married too. He too is Christian, but not of the same upbringing church-wise. My background includes Pentacostal, his Episcopalian. See where we ran into difficulties even though we settled on Baptist? LOL. I was baptized. He promised me that he would one day. Well, to date, he has not done so. And it doesn't matter to me anymore. I learned to stop letting others' expectations of my marriage, myself, or my H interfere with my thoughts on the matter. Ask your W why its so important that you convert now. I'm almost certain you will find out its because she is trying to keep up with someone else in church. Sounds sort of like the story of my wife and i except she is a cradle Catholic. I would say it is worse in the OP's case because the conflict is not just a believer's baptism but the salvation issue itself. The local church sees Gerhard every week and someone may be trying to pencil him into a ministry
Jeff1962 Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 I've been married about a year and have been attending church with my wife for about nine months. Prior to meeting my wife, I had never been a churchgoer. While I feel I have good Christian values, I am in disagreement with much of what the Christian church says and I strongly disbelieve what they have to say about the physical world. I accompany her strictly out of respect for her. However, she is upset that I haven't yet converted to Christianity and thinks that after nearly a year of attending church with her, I should have converted by now. I would classify her faith as a blind faith, in that she can't substantiate her belief through anything other than, "it says so in the Bible". Seriously discuss your feelings with your wife. Ask her to respect your feelings in a positive way. Did you both not discuss this before your marriage?
Simon Attwood Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Let's try and understand what the problem is here; It's easy to dismiss and say you are not compatible, but as you say, you are married, so perhaps a more constructive approach is necessary. Firstly you have as much right to your beliefs as your wife does, that almost goes without saying. therefore you have as much right to expect your wife to convert to aethism as she does to expect you to convert to Christianity. So let's consider motives; What would her motive be for needing you to convert to Christianity? What threat does it impose on her that you do not believe in "God"? The answer is this; Her need for your belief can only be to shore up her beliefs against her doubts, therefore her need for you to believe reveals a weakness in her own belief. The nagging uncertainty as to the existence of a god that lives in the back of her mind is brought in to consciousness every time she considers your lack of belief and this would be psychically threatening to her. She needs your belief as a weapon against her own doubts and fears regarding the existence of a meaning for her life. Your aethism is therefore a psychic threat to her security and need to attribute a meaning towards her life. If Arnold Schwarzenegger (a Republican) and Maria Shriver (a Kennedy and a Democrat) can have a successful marriage, then so can a christian and an aethesit.
Trojan John Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Money problems, ex-boyfriend issues, now religion... Gerhardt, how well do you know your wife, man?
2sunny Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 seems the W is always finding something to be mad at him for. i wonder what she'll come up with next? must be tough wonder what the W is always scheming in her mind for anger... i don't know any women like this - and i'm grateful i don't. most people i know are grateful for what they DO have (even if little), not angry at what they don't have, or what they don't have their way...
AmIParanoid Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 OP, I really really hope (but seriously doubt) you are getting some mind-blowing sex from your wife as I really don't see that she brings much if anything else to the table.
Author Gerhard Posted January 9, 2010 Author Posted January 9, 2010 Hey G, I would describe myself as a well-informed (Catholic) Christian, who has spent a great deal of time trying to understand what my church teaches and why. The best advice I can give you is to try to gently encourage your wife to inform herself to the point where she is capable of answering your questions in a more reasonable way. As a person of faith herself, she really has a duty to God (IMHO) to be able to do this. It is possible she would actually convince you. Even if not, you would probably respect her more at that point. I've gotten to the point where I prefer not discussing it with her, as she usually gets upset. She insists that I'm drawn to Satan or am possessed by the Devil merely because I don't say that I have a personal relationship with Jesus. If you go down this road, make sure to emphasize to her that it's not something you expect to happen easily or quickly. That is, she won't be able to read a book or talk to the pastor, talk to you for an hour, and then expect you to convert. This would be more like a long dialogue that would extend over months or even years, and require a continuing commitment from her to do the hard work of understanding what her faith really teaches and why. My grandfather was married to my grandmother for over 40 years before he converted. Emphasize that there is no promise at all that you will convert at the end of it all. As you say, faith and belief have to be sincere or they are not worth anything. Honestly though, if she's not willing to do the work, she doesn't have much room to stand on making demands on you. I don't make any demands upon her with respect to her religion. I fully support whatever religion she wants to be. But I am not in support of her attacking me for simply being open about it and being investigative with respect to how I learn. As a side point, if you are truly interested in hearing some viewpoints on some of the issues you talk about your wife, feel free to PM me. I always enjoy a good discussion, but it might take the main discussion here off-track. If you don't want to do that, I think there is still value in you finding another man who IS well-informed to talk to about these issues, again if you really have a desire to understand things better. Men and women just don't think the same way to some level, and it can make it difficult to talk to each other about things like this. Best wishes, Scott I appreciate the offer to discuss things off line and will PM you should I wish to discuss further. Thanks.
Author Gerhard Posted January 9, 2010 Author Posted January 9, 2010 I commend you for staying true to yourself. I agree, you shouldn't convert just to make her happy. Surely any sane pastor you spoke to on the subject would agree with that -- you should only convert if you're doing it honestly and genuinely, from the heart. Somehow, I doubt their god would want church members who only converted for the sake of appearances, or to make their wives happy, and who don't believe in the church genuinely. I find it a bit disturbing that she gets pissed at you whenever you raise the subject, and refuses to speak with a pastor together about it. I echo what somebody else asked -- how old is she? Because she's demonstrating a very juvenile mindset about the whole thing. Basically, the only way you can possibly avoid a conflict with her over this is by shutting up and doing what she wants you to do -- which goes against your beliefs, morals and principles because you would be a hypocrite, nothing more. Since you can't simply submit to her wishes on this, I don't think there's any choice but to have a conflict over it, to some degree. As long as you keep your cool, assure her that you respect her faith but that you don't share it, and make it clear that you are willing to work with her to deal with the (possibly nonexistent) social embarassment factor in a mutually satisfactory way (how about having the people at church who have supposedly asked her about your faith around for a barbecue?), then you'll have acted appropriately and can't, in my opinion, be faulted. This may not be enough for her, and she may still become irate. But at least you'll have met the issue head-on. It will then start to become clear whether or not this issue is a dealbreaker for the two of you. And it's way better to know that now, rather than a few years and a few kids later after you've put up with much more of her pressure on this. You raise some good points and offer some good ideas. The church we go to has a ministry for those who are "searching" and I've gone to that a few times. But it raises more questions without really answering the questions I have. However, it's interesting and I do get something out of it. As for age, she's in her 20s & I'm in my 40s. Someone else suggested I ask her why it's so important that I convert and I think that's a great idea and it will be interesting to see what she says when I do ask her. The fact she's unwilling to see a pastor together might stem from the fact she refused to go to couples counseling when she was having fits about my ex-wife (who I don't have any contact with). I'm pondering the idea of going to a pastor on my own and letting her know that's what I'm doing. I'm open to working with her on this, but she seems like the type of Christian who says, "my way is the best way and you're wrong". One of the things I've learned from the Christian church is that her way is not a very Christian way to deal with this kind of situation.
WalkInThePark Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 It's easy to dismiss and say you are not compatible, but as you say, you are married, so perhaps a more constructive approach is necessary. It is not because it is a marriage that it is right. For me it is very clear that his W is a poor Asian girl who married a western man for his wallet. I now read that he is in his forties and she is in her twenties. That age gap is not a normal one. Most girls in their twenties want a guy their own age. Love is not the basis of the marriage here. She wanted a wallet and he wanted a young woman. It is an economic transactions. Unfortunately, he was not aware of the small letters of the contract. Sometimes these Filippina-westerner marriages work out well but IMHO, this woman is a nutcase. But he probably got what he deserved because he probably thought that an Asian woman would be better than his bad western ex-wife. As another poster said, there will always be something she will be mad about. She is just an angry woman. I hope for Gerhard they have signed a prenup but I'm pretty sure they haven't. So divorce will mean bankruptcy... A constructive approach seems impossible to me, this marriage simply seems wrong. Do they ever have fun together? And this is only the beginning.
TaraMaiden Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 I think a good read of gerhard's previous threads would certainly give a great deal of insight into this latest episode..... Interesting. I'd forgotten my previous 'head-against-brick-wall' encounter with gerhard..... I'm off before it becomes more of the same.....
taiko Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 It is not because it is a marriage that it is right. For me it is very clear that his W is a poor Asian girl who married a western man for his wallet. I now read that he is in his forties and she is in her twenties. That age gap is not a normal one. Most girls in their twenties want a guy their own age. Love is not the basis of the marriage here. She wanted a wallet and he wanted a young woman. It is an economic transactions. Unfortunately, he was not aware of the small letters of the contract. Sometimes these Filippina-westerner marriages work out well but IMHO, this woman is a nutcase. But he probably got what he deserved because he probably thought that an Asian woman would be better than his bad western ex-wife. As another poster said, there will always be something she will be mad about. She is just an angry woman. I hope for Gerhard they have signed a prenup but I'm pretty sure they haven't. So divorce will mean bankruptcy... A constructive approach seems impossible to me, this marriage simply seems wrong. Do they ever have fun together? And this is only the beginning. So is she a Catholic Christian or Ingelsia ni Cristo Christian? If INC, well I see why the push for conversion may be so hard.
Angel1111 Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) If your wife didn't tell you before marriage that this is what she expected of you, then she has no right to have that expectation now. This sounds a lot like emotional blackmail to me. I also think religion is nothing more than mind control, but having said that, I think it's good for kids to have some form of religious upbringing. I know that sounds contradictory but churches give kids a sense of community and I think that's the one positive thing that churches give. Plus it doesn't hurt for a child to learn that there's a higher source to turn to in times of trouble and guidance. The problem you're going to have when you have kids is that your wife isn't open-minded and if she's in a strict religion that you don't agree with and don't want your children involved in, then you're going to clash. This problem really should've been resolved before the two of you married. I was raised in a very strict, cultish religion and I would simply go out of my mind if anyone had tried to raise my son in that religion. My ex was involved in some milk-toast religion and I was fine with that. You need to get this straight with your wife as to how you feel, and you need to decide if her religion is something you're ok with your kids being raised in. I'm curious as to how you could've married someone with your wife's mindset. I absolutely could not be married to anyone who's answer to anything was 'because the bible says so'. That would be such a turn-off for me. Edited January 9, 2010 by Angel1111
Scottdmw Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Hi G, Having read a lot of your previous posts, a couple of more things have come to mind. It strikes me that the relationship you have with your wife may just involve a certain percentage of conflict. I have often noticed in myself that is very difficult for me to be happy all the time. It seems like eventually if I'm happy for a long time I will actually find a reason to be unhappy. If I don't have any real problems, I will manufacture problems or blow minor things out of proportion. I worry about something, even if it's something no one in their right mind should really waste time worrying about. If I don't have anyone I'm in a real relationship with making me upset, I will get angry at another driver on the road or my computer. What I'm suggesting is maybe you and your wife are made in such a way that you will fight about SOMETHING a certain percentage of the time. It may just be a part of your combined natures. You can solve 99 problems, and the two of you will find something else to have a conflict about. I have an old friend who says his relationship with his wife is like this. If that was true, it might suggest you not put that much effort into trying to solve your problems. If you are truly as you have said in a previous post happy 90% of the time in your relationship, perhaps you should enjoy the times of happiness and just weather the 10% conflict as best you can, the same way you would a bad storm outside. Try to address issues at the time, but don't devote too much mental effort thinking you're going to make the 10% of the time go away. Sometimes I find I make problems worse by putting too much effort into trying to solve them. As a separate note, I was thinking some more about how you've said in this thread that you believe in Christian values but are hesitant to believe in Christianity. So let's say we agree that Christian values are a really good thing, that in practice they are a good way to live a person's life and result in a harmonious society. Where did those values come from? They came from a person who is widely acknowledged as a great moral teacher, even by those who don't believe more of him. Interestingly, this great moral teacher also makes the claim that he is God, come to earth to help us in the most personal way possible. So it seems like he has to either be crazy, lying, or really be God. If he is crazy, how did he come up with so many wise moral teachings and have such a big impact on future history? Same problem if he was lying, why would someone who was such a great moral teacher lie about something like that? Just something to think about. Best wishes, Scott
Author Gerhard Posted January 11, 2010 Author Posted January 11, 2010 It is not because it is a marriage that it is right. For me it is very clear that his W is a poor Asian girl who married a western man for his wallet. I now read that he is in his forties and she is in her twenties. That age gap is not a normal one. Most girls in their twenties want a guy their own age. Love is not the basis of the marriage here. She wanted a wallet and he wanted a young woman. It is an economic transactions. Unfortunately, he was not aware of the small letters of the contract. Sometimes these Filippina-westerner marriages work out well but IMHO, this woman is a nutcase. But he probably got what he deserved because he probably thought that an Asian woman would be better than his bad western ex-wife. As another poster said, there will always be something she will be mad about. She is just an angry woman. I hope for Gerhard they have signed a prenup but I'm pretty sure they haven't. So divorce will mean bankruptcy... A constructive approach seems impossible to me, this marriage simply seems wrong. Do they ever have fun together? And this is only the beginning. I understand where you're coming from. American-Filipina marriages usually work out very well, and we know many very successful marriages of that type. Do we have fun together? I'm not in this message board to discuss the fun we have together. But since we only discuss "issues" in here, I can see how one could get the impression that a marriage in which only the conflicts are brought up could seem wrong.
Author Gerhard Posted January 11, 2010 Author Posted January 11, 2010 I think a good read of gerhard's previous threads would certainly give a great deal of insight into this latest episode..... Interesting. I'd forgotten my previous 'head-against-brick-wall' encounter with gerhard..... I'm off before it becomes more of the same..... I'd forgotten what your stance was. I no longer permit my wife to discuss my ex-wife in any manner. Having put my foot down and demonstrating that there will be reprecussions has for the most part laid the issue to rest. The issue with different religions isn't new for us.
Author Gerhard Posted January 11, 2010 Author Posted January 11, 2010 Hi G, Having read a lot of your previous posts, a couple of more things have come to mind. It strikes me that the relationship you have with your wife may just involve a certain percentage of conflict. I have often noticed in myself that is very difficult for me to be happy all the time. It seems like eventually if I'm happy for a long time I will actually find a reason to be unhappy. If I don't have any real problems, I will manufacture problems or blow minor things out of proportion. I worry about something, even if it's something no one in their right mind should really waste time worrying about. If I don't have anyone I'm in a real relationship with making me upset, I will get angry at another driver on the road or my computer. What I'm suggesting is maybe you and your wife are made in such a way that you will fight about SOMETHING a certain percentage of the time. It may just be a part of your combined natures. You can solve 99 problems, and the two of you will find something else to have a conflict about. I have an old friend who says his relationship with his wife is like this. If that was true, it might suggest you not put that much effort into trying to solve your problems. If you are truly as you have said in a previous post happy 90% of the time in your relationship, perhaps you should enjoy the times of happiness and just weather the 10% conflict as best you can, the same way you would a bad storm outside. Try to address issues at the time, but don't devote too much mental effort thinking you're going to make the 10% of the time go away. Sometimes I find I make problems worse by putting too much effort into trying to solve them. As a separate note, I was thinking some more about how you've said in this thread that you believe in Christian values but are hesitant to believe in Christianity. So let's say we agree that Christian values are a really good thing, that in practice they are a good way to live a person's life and result in a harmonious society. Where did those values come from? They came from a person who is widely acknowledged as a great moral teacher, even by those who don't believe more of him. Interestingly, this great moral teacher also makes the claim that he is God, come to earth to help us in the most personal way possible. So it seems like he has to either be crazy, lying, or really be God. If he is crazy, how did he come up with so many wise moral teachings and have such a big impact on future history? Same problem if he was lying, why would someone who was such a great moral teacher lie about something like that? Just something to think about. Best wishes, Scott Scott, I think you said it very well. I'm sure all relationships have some amount of conflict. We can let this conflict control the relationship or as you say, just weather the storm and ride it out. I usually do the latter. As for your thoughts on how we get good values, why can't we get them from our parents, our teachers or our peers? Are you saying that humans would have poor moral values without the perception of a higher power?
quankanne Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 She insists that I'm drawn to Satan or am possessed by the Devil merely because I don't say that I have a personal relationship with Jesus. um, she knows this because God informs her of this? As far as I can tell, a relationship (or lack of one) with God is strictly between you and Him; if she's that gung-ho about getting you on board, the best thing she can do is model her faith in a way that you find it attractive and want what she has for yourself. Otherwise, it's just more of someone trying to force something on you that you don't particularly want. And we all know how annoying that gets! As for your thoughts on how we get good values, why can't we get them from our parents, our teachers or our peers? Are you saying that humans would have poor moral values without the perception of a higher power? I've just spoken about how people model positive attributes in a way that someone wants to emulate them, but where does it come from? To a degree we choose how we behave – someone working toward saintliness or someone working toward an axe-murderer, for instance – but somewhere somehow, a seed must be planted. If you believe in a higher power, a Supernatural Creator – God – you understand that some spark of His divinity remained in you when he created you. And that your choice to follow a moral code or positive values is just a natural outflow. however, I'm curious as to how someone who DOESN'T believe considers the reason behind the spark of goodness in him. Because it's something that pre-exists conscious thought; it's something he's compelled to live out because it makes sense. But where and why does that spark exist?
Scottdmw Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Scott, I think you said it very well. I'm sure all relationships have some amount of conflict. We can let this conflict control the relationship or as you say, just weather the storm and ride it out. I usually do the latter. As for your thoughts on how we get good values, why can't we get them from our parents, our teachers or our peers? Are you saying that humans would have poor moral values without the perception of a higher power? I think we can now learn about good values from any number of sources including the ones you mention. But, I was specifically talking about Christian values and what their ultimate source is. Many of the “good” values that you might learn from your parents or teachers today have their ultimate source in the teachings of Jesus, whether the parents or teachers think of them that way or not. The values of the pre-Christian Roman empire and pagan civilizations were not I think quite so “good”. As violent as our media and sporting events are, they don't even hold a candle to the Roman Colosseum for example where people were really killed for amusement. My point was, if you believe that Christian values are good but that Jesus was not God, you have to somehow explain how the source of all these good values could make such an outrageous claim. Scott
Author Gerhard Posted January 11, 2010 Author Posted January 11, 2010 She insists that I'm drawn to Satan or am possessed by the Devil merely because I don't say that I have a personal relationship with Jesus. um, she knows this because God informs her of this? As far as I can tell, a relationship (or lack of one) with God is strictly between you and Him; if she's that gung-ho about getting you on board, the best thing she can do is model her faith in a way that you find it attractive and want what she has for yourself. Otherwise, it's just more of someone trying to force something on you that you don't particularly want. And we all know how annoying that gets! I am 100% in alignment with you. I have asked her why we can't have an adult to adult discussion on the matter and she simply gets belligerent or attacks me for not believing as she does. As for your thoughts on how we get good values, why can't we get them from our parents, our teachers or our peers? Are you saying that humans would have poor moral values without the perception of a higher power? I've just spoken about how people model positive attributes in a way that someone wants to emulate them, but where does it come from? To a degree we choose how we behave – someone working toward saintliness or someone working toward an axe-murderer, for instance – but somewhere somehow, a seed must be planted. If you believe in a higher power, a Supernatural Creator – God – you understand that some spark of His divinity remained in you when he created you. And that your choice to follow a moral code or positive values is just a natural outflow. however, I'm curious as to how someone who DOESN'T believe considers the reason behind the spark of goodness in him. Because it's something that pre-exists conscious thought; it's something he's compelled to live out because it makes sense. But where and why does that spark exist? Why is it we are inherently bad and have to get our goodness from something as opposed to us being inherently good and have to get our "badness" from something? I'm sure non-believers would say it's either learned from parents, teachers, etc or it's an inherent part of who they are.
D-Lish Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 however, I'm curious as to how someone who DOESN'T believe considers the reason behind the spark of goodness in him. Because it's something that pre-exists conscious thought; it's something he's compelled to live out because it makes sense. But where and why does that spark exist It's called a conscience! People without religion in their life aren't bereft of moral guidance!
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