Big Problem with Fetish

[Vertex]

You'd probably pass all that off as normal as well so at this point I see no reason to continue debating this issue with you. It's obvious you just want to argue this point for sport, or that you also have some underlying mental disorder and feel this topic is too close to home for you.

 

I've sited plenty of evidence on why I think this is a mental disorder, in the least you can educate yourselve, but at least you will stop asking me where I get my opinions from.

 

I just explained to you the difference between the information you're linking to and the nature of the issue at hand. If you'd like to actually combat my points, you're more than welcome. But don't take cheap shots by implying I must also be "mentally off" for trying to approach the issue rationally. Also, don't say "you'd probably pass all that off as normal" when I clearly stated otherwise in that particular quote.

[Art_Critic]

Look up Urolagnia Paraphilia, that's who says it's a mental disorder.

 

Read the "Facts and Tips" section of the first link I posted and read the first line:

 

http://www.depression-guide.com/urolagnia.htm

 

http://healthmad.com/conditions-and-diseases/bizarre-mental-disorders-and-conditions/

 

 

But do continue on your crusade to stabilize golden showers, it's amusing to see how devoted some of you are to making the rest of the world think that we are the mentally unstable ones!

 

It's beyond me why our society has eroded to such extent that the most inhumane and barbaric of acts of sex are considered "appealing"

This entire topic deserves a discussion of its own. Pornography has contributed to this notion significantly, by desensitizing us from what should be a loving arousing act of pleasure between two human beings who actually care about one another and replacing them with random acts of extremism and degradation.

 

First off thanks for the links..

 

Why do you continue to attack me ?

 

I'm not on a crusade for golden showers..

I have been helping a poster who had a misunderstanding/disagreement with the girl he is dating and was helping HIM with that.

 

Your postings are the ones that seem to have some other intent that the original poster in mind..

You seem to be trying to impose your views of this on me and others here.

 

Not once have I tried to impose my feelings about Golden showers in this thread.. in fact I don't think I have ever told you my opinion of them...

 

I haven't allowed my feelings about Golden Showers or Sex for that matter persuade me from trying to help the OP..

 

You are just trying to use this thread as a bully pulpit to talk about your feelings on a particular subject rather than try to help the OP..

 

Now.. about your links..

 

In the first one it is a good link but it also doesn't mention a treatment plan or that it is a harmful condition

 

In fact this is from the link your provided..

In contrast to practices such as coprophagia, it is generally considered harmless,

 

Your second link is worthless.. it is just a list of names of things people can suffer from..

 

I can use google too by the way..

 

Is that all you can bring to the table about how dangerous and mentally unhealthy this practice is ?

[Art_Critic]

Okay.. I'm out of this pissing contest

[jw90063]

Yes, just making a point. I'm personally not into these acts at all, but I see it as totally closeminded and illogical to bash it for the reasons stated in this thread.

 

-Yes, semen is associated with the act of sex. But eating it certainly isn't necessary. Receiving it on a part of your body follows suit as well. Sex is a very emotional, mental, sensual, and physical thing that does not have any one flavor -- we do certain things because they give us stimulus and pleasure. Sex is an arena in which many can explore sensual pleasures in a variety of ways, and it's not just limited to semen. People introduce food sometimes because of the pleasures we derive from eating or from the physical intricacies of oral stimulation, or light amounts of pain, or the submission of being tied up, etc. There are plenty of things "not necessary in sex" that we find acceptable, so to say "peeing" is unacceptable for that reason is not a strong one.

 

Ok.

 

Well, personally I don't eat anything, but many do. I guess semen is more acceptable in that aspect because you want to be as intimate as possible with someone you really like. Therefore, all those things people do with semen bring you closer to the person, and it's more understandable. Yes, it does gross some people out and I totally understand that, but I also don't see it as out of the ordinary, like strictly peeing on someone.

[Vertex]

I was not making cheap shots. People who have underlying mental disorders don't typically know that they do. If you take this discussion to heart, it can lead me to think that perhaps you have been performing sexually deviant acts that you thought were normal but in fact are not and the reason you think they are normal is because of an underlying disorder.

 

In everything you have been posting I got the impression you thought this was normal since you have been arguing the matter quite fervidly.

 

Sweet lord, haha. You're reading way too much into it -- but at least it falls consistently with your argument that it's possible to derive something about one's mental faculties as a result of a given act (I could just as easily argue that you are being fervent as well). Either way, I've already told you I'm not into watersports. But, it's irrelevant to my argument.

 

I argue fervently over things when I feel there's a rational chance to do so -- much the same way I'd fervently argue in favor of, say, atheism over theism. I'm personally not an extremely sexually deviant person in any way, so I can already disprove your extrapolation since you decided to turn it at me this time.

 

You have yet to counterargue against the claims I brought up against your links, by the way.

[Vertex]

Anyways, I've given my piece. I'll be departing from this thread now.

 

To the OP, hope all goes well with you.

[Ms. Joolie]

We have a somewhat thorough understanding of various sexual desires and fetishes and their psychological roots. Some are easier to justify than others. It isn't "reasonable" to make an evidenceless extrapolation about someone's psychological state -- it's illogical to do so. Whether or not you wish to act on logic or illogic is your decision.

 

"Do you like vanilla ice cream? Then you must be a boring person and I can't date you."

 

Obviously, such a statement is a bit flawed since it completely ignores all other associations that may contradict the claim. It's not "reasonable" to extrapolate this. In the scenario of the fetish, you have a slightly more complex associative array present, but it's hardly indicative of psych issues (unless you judge someone's mental health by the deviation of their sexual practices as an independent function from their everyday life practices).

 

This is only a discussion board, not a scientific one. People are free to express themselves without having scientific evidence, even without going by logical/reasonable standards. Their opinions count, and should not be discounted.

 

I think you are questioning why some of us are questioning the sanity of this fetish still and getting into a psychological quandary over it.

 

I would ask that you simply question illogical opinions so that posters can illustrate their logic, but not conclude their logic or opinion is illogical or unreasonable unless you have scientific evidence yourself to point out the right way.

[jw90063]

Either way, I've already told you I'm not into watersports. But, it's irrelevant to my argument.

 

I argue fervently over things when I feel there's a rational chance to do so -- much the same way I'd fervently argue in favor of, say, atheism over theism. I'm personally not an extremely sexually deviant person in any way, so I can already disprove your extrapolation since you decided to turn it at me this time.

 

 

Just as I suspected. If you aren't into watersports, then looks like you would be more open minded as to why someone would think it could indicate psychological issues. Also, the fact that it's just plain disgusting to a majority of people. Seems like you are more set on making a point, than being realistic.

[Lizzie60]

Just as I suspected. If you aren't into watersports, then looks like you would be more open minded as to why someone would think it could indicate psychological issues. Also, the fact that it's just plain disgusting to a majority of people. Seems like you are more set on making a point, than being realistic.

 

Although I'm not into watersport either.. I don't see the big deal anyway.. they don't pee in our mouth for Pete's sake...

 

We all have our fantasies...

[silic0ntoad]

The big deal is pissing on someone is rather degrading. IDK what sane person WANTS to feel degraded. Submission in the bedroom doesn't HAVE to invlove waste products. Submission can simply mean being slapped/spanked/hair pulled while in a normally submissive sexual position.

 

It's a byproduct of how horribly "hippie" our social structure has become nowadays, where pissing on someone is considered a turn on, and thinking it's gross and unacceptable is "close minded."

 

For the life of me I'll never understand that mentality. Maybe I am too much of a fascist.

[Ms. Joolie]

Now I'm just curious as to how a woman can obtain sexual pleasure from an excretory bodily fluid of semen as opposed to or in addition to the reproductive matter of semen.

 

But she does. haha. How'd THAT happen? lol.

 

I believe that everything we do is based on a past experience, and thought comes before action. So while this fetish of hers is just a thought, the thoughts of this action are based on a past experience. Something took place that created this fetish or perceived pleasure of a 'golden shower.'. Obviously, right?

 

It's not so weird that a doctor created a fetish with urine. What would be fascinating would be to know what spurred the fetish, and is this fetish (or desire) now interrupting her life or relationships significantly? Guess the OP will find out on that one. lol

[jw90063]

Yes, many people who are into these acts, like pee in their mouth as well. Who knows, maybe this girl wants that, but probably wouldn't tell him at this point.

 

I mean if the OP's girl wants to peed on in the shower once in a while, that's not that big of a deal or the worst thing. I just think if she or anyone gets bent out of shape because someone won't do these sexual acts or approve, that's an indicator, its top priority on her list. That is what is disturbing, when someone's fetish is a large part of their lifestyle. Hopefully with this girl, its not.

 

I once met a guy online who had a foot fetish. We talked a good bit, then finally went out. Yes, I didn't judge him immediately,and proceeded on a date, even though I questioned the foot fetish. Later he told me what all he wanted to do with feet. It wasn't just this that freaked me out, but he was SO odd in many other ways. I couldn't really tell any of this on the phone of course, besides him seeming like a prick at times. Guess I was trying to give him a benefit of a doubt. Anyways, when I told him I just didn't feel a chemistry, and would like to be friends, he flipped out on me. I've never been treated so poorly by a male. He said some really unnecessary comments to me. As you guessed, it didn't work out. I was thinking"i'm not surprised, he has a extreme foot fetish".

 

Point is, as I already indicated, I do think certain fetishes(such as water sports) can signify psychological issues. Maybe not always the case, but for the most part, I believe, or at least it seems that way.

[silic0ntoad]

I'd bet money she turns out very clingy. And insecure. And if he DOES do it, she'll either hate it and leave him in shame, or love it, and never leave him alone.

[Des]

"Do you like vanilla ice cream? Then you must be a boring person and I can't date you."

 

So let me get this straight. You think it's no more reasonable to pass judgment on a person who tells you they like to be peed on, than it is to pass judgment on a person who tells you they like vanilla ice cream?

 

There is nothing "slight" about the difference between vanilla ice cream and urophagia, no matter how you look at it. It really amazes me, the quest for justification here.

 

It's beyond me why our society has eroded to such extent that the most inhumane and barbaric of acts of sex are considered "appealing"

 

^^^ This.

 

Pornography has contributed to this notion significantly, by desensitizing us from what should be a loving arousing act of pleasure between two human beings who actually care about one another and replacing them with random acts of extremism and degradation.

 

^^^ And this.

 

Sex is a very emotional, mental, sensual, and physical thing that does not have any one flavor --

 

You want to say this, but you think it has nothing to do with ones psychological state of being?

Edited January 8, 2010 by Des

[silic0ntoad]

I agree. I think our society has degraded to a point where social parasites need to go to further and further extremes of sexual nature to achieve satisfaction. And yes, urinating or defecating on someone is dubious at best, I can't see it being socially acceptable.

 

Bob walks into party with the guys. "Hey boys, I pissed on my wife last night. She enjoyed it."

 

Guys "Man, I bet she gave you great head afterwards."

 

Ridiculous, but this is probably true. If this is socially acceptable nowadays, I think I'll move to Alaska.

[Ms. Joolie]

A glitch in her brain, mild to acute mental disorders boil down to that.

 

Yes, they do. The question is if there is disorder in her life then or if this is 'only' a fetish.

 

I think that X happened in her life, and her brain absorbed that experience in the way it did. The fetish is the end expression of what was experienced.

 

The creation of a fetish is the way her brain glitched. Is this fetish a persistent problem in her life, causing disorder? If yes, then it is apparent there is a disorder. If no, then there is no disorder.

[meerkat stew]

1. Though I agree on the correlation between paraphilias and general mental disorder, too much has been made of the urine fetish and whether or not it is disgusting. It's not how many people do or do not find it disgusting, it's whether OP's girl can experience normal sexual gratification without the fetish or not. The answer to that question defines the demarcation between kinky and mental illness. No one can answer that here, but if it turns out that she can not experience gratification without urine, it's a 100% certainty that DS and GF are sexually incompatible, because as DS has said, he is unwilling to perform the act that is required for GF to achieve sexual gratification. If it's just something she likes, indulgence of the fetish could give her a mere thrill, or it could solidify the fetish into a "required" act.

 

2. The existence of the fetish itself is less troublesome to me than GFs timing and way of disclosing it. IMO, there is a pretty good chance that if she requests a golden shower on a very early date, that's not the only layer of the onion where her sexual deviance is concerned. GF brings up a controversial fetish on the same timeframe that many people haven't even started talking about sex yet. They may DO it this early, but not so many TALK openly about it this fast.

 

Finally, her timing of the disclosure is the most troublesome of all to me because one of the hallmark symptoms of several personality disorders is a very early and thorough disregard of boundaries. Having dated PD women in the past, a common thread is that they attempt to "reel in" their partners early by instilling a "broken bird" impression in said partner. They disclose a kink like this, and the next step is the disclosure of some heinous early trauma (true or made up) that places them in a damsel in distress role (male PDs do this same thing, just haven't experienced that) in need of rescue by their new partner. In this way they cement a bond with their prey, especially prey who exhibit even the slightest co-dependent tendencies.

 

Whereas its true that GF has exhibited hesitation to discuss the origin of the fetish, this doesn't mean much, as PD people often don't realize their MO, or it could be part of the fishing process, where the disclosure is made more dramatic by the hesitation to discuss it. Finally, many PD people are completely undiagnosed and oblivious, all they know is that they lead miserable lives full of suffering, and that they tend to draw their victims into that web of suffering.

 

To summarize, upon reflection, and reading more of the thread, the confluence of a) the existence of the fetish together with the possibility that it may be required, together with b) GF's timing in disclosing it, makes this situation troublesome provided it is DS desire to date sane women

 

DS, if you continue with this woman, here's what to look out for going forward, and it is an amalgam of traits of BPD and HPD:

 

1. Does GF exhibit an impulsive nature in either substance consumption, general risk taking, seeking sex, gambling, etc.?

 

2. Does GF exhibit any signs of abandonment feelings when you part from her, clinging to you physically, infantalizing, becoming emotional or moody when it is time to part company after dates?

 

3. Does GF have stormy relationships with many of the people in her life?

 

4. Does GF have a history of unfulling relationships, in which she villainizes or alternatively idolizes past relationship partners? Are people categorized in a "splitting" way as all good or all bad?

 

5. Does GF dress or act very seductively, is she overconcerned with appearance and looks in herself and others? Does she have lots of male pseudo-friends? Is she intent on being the center of attention? Does she pout or fret when not being paid attention to?

 

6. Is GF currently undergoing psych treatment or medication of any kind? Has GF every been institutionalized for a psyc or emotional problem? Does she have a past history of eating disorders? especially bulimia.

 

These are for you to answer as you see her further, not asking you to try to answer them now. It's obvious you don't know her well enough to answer these at this point.

 

Best wishes, no matter how you choose to proceed.

Edited January 8, 2010 by meerkat stew

[16thstreet]

It's a lonely life for grandmaster b lol...

 

After I apologized for the way I reacted, she asked me a few more times, "So you would NEVER do it"? I said ABSOLUTELY NOT. She seemed disappointed and that was that.

 

Am I misreading, or did you previously say that when you wanted to talk about it she stated that she didn't want to talk about it? But, she also asked you repeatedly about whether you'd "really" ever consider it after your unequivocal statements that you would not?

 

She will not share but presses you to state and restate your view. Seems skewed. Just a thought.

[DustySaltus]

To summarize, upon reflection, and reading more of the thread, the confluence of a) the existence of the fetish together with the possibility that it may be required, together with b) GF's timing in disclosing it, makes this situation troublesome provided it is DS desire to date sane women

 

My ex had BPD and I only found it out after we were engaged and I moved 7000 miles away, so my radar on this in ALWAYS UP. This girl has been nothing but a sweetheart to me and says she really understands my situatuion but wants me to give her the benefir of the doubt. I have until this situation. Now, i'm afraid that she MAY have deeper issues. It's only been 2 1/2 months that i've known her, so each day has been a learning experience.

 

I NEVER want to put myself in a vulnerable state as I did with my ex.

 

Best wishes, no matter how you choose to proceed

 

Thanks buddy, I appreciate the advice.

[carhill]

OP, having read the thread (mostly), if the relationship is an otherwise positive experience for you, enjoy the dinner she makes you, treat her to some nice lovemaking and see how things go over the next month. IMO, this is where your growth from your prior experiences will be tested. Hope it works out

[Malenfant]

Which are uncommon... Again about the Internet and grains of salt. Don't allow Internet porn to persuade your thinking about what is common or acceptable in terms of the real world.

 

yes, i never said it was common, my point is that i'm surprised that anyone can be truely shocked to learn that another person likes it considering we have all heard about it. its not like a new thing is it?

TBH i wouldnt do watersports but i wouldnt be shocked to be asked to. yeah, i would find it unattractive and i wouldnt participate but i accept that some people do like it.

I dont really get your argument, we all know that some people like it. how many people is actually quite irrelevent.

 

 

Now we're comparing keeping hush on a strange, universally revolting fetish to never telling anyone anything? This is beyond "slightly iffy". I don't think I even need to say that... In this case where a few people desire to be urinated on... well, it wouldn't necessarily hurt the progress of mankind if no one ever told. In fact, it might even make us look a little more civilized among the other animals.

 

thats just your opinion.

this isnt about facts, its about the quirks of human nature. TBH i dont think other animals have a massively formed opinion about us anyway. it seems like you're saying its more important to appear a certain way to people than to be ourselves.

 

I say it's backwards that we slide. The farther removed we become from nature and from ourselves, the more we decline. We can call it "animal sex", until the day we realize animals don't pee on each other for sexual high. Today it all seems to be about doing what you know you shouldn't do, rather than what you should.

 

Although the modern world allows for more unusual experiences on a wider scale, fetishes that are only to do with the body (ie not man made objects) have existed forever. the only reason we didnt hear about it years ago is because people didnt talk about it.

At least nowadays people can talk about how they feel without fear of reproach..... well, they could to me anyway.

[DustySaltus]

I've decided that I will try and move forward with her past this situation. However, if another red flad happens to pop up i'm going to have to move on. In the interim I will just continue to enjoy myself and not be on the look out for them....

[Payden]

Hmmmmm not sure if I could get anything out of it, but I would try and satisfy her needs for something like that the best I can. Especially if I loved her. There are other fetishes like this.

[Payden]

Pfffttt some on here are talking about fetishes are product of disorder or trauma lol....so so wrong.

 

All a fetish is is a object or idea that stimulates one's sexual happiness(my description)

For some they like the feeling of helplessness and being totally dependent.... Bondism, infantilism(adult baby) punishment(dominated) For some they like the soothing touch, Golden showers, foot massage, slapped, wrestling, silk, leather, wearing different gender's underpants(cross-dressing) For some they like being dominated by objects or characters.... Dressing up as super heroes, heroins(Wonder woman is going to save you, baby) Dressing up in fur(furbies) Even a fetish having to do with poking someone that has a broken leg.

 

It doesn't make that person a strange person...You'd be very surprised at how many people actually do engage in such fetishes I have described. It can be fun, sensual and stimulating.. don't be afraid....give it a chance and it may work for you.

 

Now all I want is to be nursed back to health by my sexy, mama, leggy hot a$$ nurse.... yummy.

[Ms. Joolie]

I've decided that I will try and move forward with her past this situation. However, if another red flad happens to pop up i'm going to have to move on. In the interim I will just continue to enjoy myself and not be on the look out for them....

 

Sounds like a plan. Good luck!