Short question about sex

[Charlemagne]

How would you behave if you and your OW promised each other not to have sex, and you're 99% sure that she didn't comply?

[TaraMaiden]

I'd know it was an unreasonable request, so I'd get over it...

Why agree to something so stupid, when you're not the only ones involved, presumably?

Such conditions are quite senseless, and mean nothing.

if you have sex with someone outside your relationship, or who's in another relationship, then there's no 'binding' contract, is there?

 

Ridiculous....

[jennie-jennie]

How would you behave if you and your OW promised each other not to have sex, and you're 99% sure that she didn't comply?

 

My MM and I have decided to be exclusive, but we also realize that there is a risk one of us will break this agreement. I mean he is sleeping in the same bed as his wife every night. What if she comes on to him? Will he be able to reject her? So we have agreed that if one of us breaks the agreement we tell. By leaving room for breaking the agreement, the pressure lightens and there is no need to waste energy on suspecting the other of unfaithfulness.

 

So I suggest you talk with your OW and discuss the issue. Honesty in my opinion is more important than sticking to the exclusivity.

[Charlemagne]

But let's she:

 

• is determined to be with me
  
• wants to leave her husband
  
• says she love me
  
• knows that it hurts me and promised me she won't do that
  

[TaraMaiden]

But let's she is determined to be with me

Does her H know this?

wants to leave her husband

Has she filed for divorce?

says she love me

I'm sure she does....

knows that it hurts me and promised me she won't do that

Isn't that what she promised her H when she married him....?

[Charlemagne]

I think she will never tell me the truth because she is afraid that I will leave her because of the broken promise.

 

And I REALLY understand you. They are sleeping with each other and is she strong enough to say no..? I don't think so..

 

I'm starting to hate such people..

[Charlemagne]

Does her H know this?

 

More or less yes. He knows that she's going to leave him. Just last minute resistance.

 

Has she filed for divorce?

 

In this situation and country she doesn't have to fill any papers.

 

 

 

I'm sure she does....

 

I'm more sure about this than on the notion of leaving her husband because of comfort.

 

 

Isn't that what she promised her H when she married him....?

 

It was long ago, and she admitted that she was wrong.

[jennie-jennie]

Do you trust her overall? Trust is important in a relationship.

 

I would however not make too big a deal of this. She loves you, and you hope that she will be able to leave her husband and be with you. These things are much more important in my opinion than whether or not she has had sex with her husband.

 

I had sex with my now exSO while in a relationship with MM. I did not love MM less because of this. It was just the last remnants of my relationship with my ex.

[bentnotbroken]

But let's she:

 

• is determined to be with me
  
• wants to leave her husband
  
• says she love me
  
• knows that it hurts me and promised me she won't do that
  

 

 

With her vows she:

*was determined to be with her H, hence a marriage

*she wanted to be with him and told the world so

*she loved him and wanted to forsake all others

*her A with you hurts him and she promised him not to cheat.

 

What makes you better than him....nothing. She's made promises before and didn't keep them. Sounds like you got what you asked for.

[TaraMaiden]

More or less yes. He knows that she's going to leave him. Just last minute resistance.

What, on his part or hers...?

Meh, it doesn't matter.

If she really loved you as much as you've been led to believe, and wanted to be with you unconditionally, it wouldn't matter. She's be with you, and not him.

 

In this situation and country she doesn't have to fill any papers.

All the more reason why the above should be a lot more feasible then... (but I don't understand why "in this situation and country she doesn't have to fill any... she's either officially married, or she isn't. if she is, then AFAIK, the divorce has to be official....)

 

I'm more sure about this than on the notion of leaving her husband because of comfort.

Yes, but one negates the other, doesn't it? her inability to leave her husband because of resistance (if it's on her part) would seem to illustrate that she'd like the best of both worlds....but maybe you'd better fill us in....

 

It was long ago, and she admitted that she was wrong.

Ah.

so, she can be wrong then.

Maybe more than once......

[Charlemagne]

I thought that I can trust her, but now I'm not sure..

 

I'm sad now. I'm considering breaking off with her. I'm sick and tired of being in such a situation..

 

I don't feel loved, cared etc. I receive only words, not actions..

 

She is draining me.

 

TaraMaiden: It's just a deal between them. She can just throw away this paper, and that's ok.

 

And yes. She wants the best of both worlds. She is very selfish and all what she is looking for is her pleasure and comfort - emotions of others are probably not essential. She is a cheater and this tells all..

[bentnotbroken]

She did it with you, she will do it to you.

[TaraMaiden]

So they're not even actually officially married?

It's just a paper put together by them?

They never even officially stood in front of a JP, or Priest, or a person entitled to marry them?

There's nothing actually legally binding keeping them together...?

is that what you're telling me?

 

So he's not her husband...

He's just her BF...?

 

Wooooah....

 

And...walk away......

If you feel the way you do, and she is the way you say -

 

tell me again why you're so fixated on her being with you?

 

You're kidding, right?

[Charlemagne]

TaraMaiden you don't understand me. There was a person entitled to marry them (not priest). They're married, but the procedure to break it is as simple as sending a post-card. They don't have to sign some papers. She is breaking the agreement and leaves.

 

Why I'm so fixated? I don't f.. know. I have a lot of other opportunities with woman, life, and I feel successful in general. But she is.. like my true love. I don't have this feeling with other women. And maybe I just like winning and chasing? Consider her a challenge? I don't know. She is very special to me, and I've never met someone just like her. I truly love her, but her character flaws are becoming no longer acceptable and I'm considering breaking off with her. We've never been so close to be together and it's very likely that she will leave her husband. I want to give her a chance, a final chance.

[reboot]

The only thing more ridiculous than a MP promising their OP they won't sleep with the spouse is the OP believing it. Afairyland must be an interesting place to live.

[BlueeyedJonesy]

Its really quite simple D-I-V-O-R-C-E. Do things the right way and you won't have to come on here and post such silly things..

[Charlemagne]

She just told me that they haven't had sex since November. WTF?

[jennie-jennie]

She just told me that they haven't had sex since November. WTF?

 

And...? Is this better or worse than you thought?

[tiredofit]

She just told me that they haven't had sex since November. WTF?

 

 

 

Listen to everyone Charlemagne. I recently ended My A with MW. They are not going to tell you the truth. Besides what right do you really have to get upset? She is married to HIM. The lying becomes second nature. I know you want to believe everything she tells you but if she loved you, she would be with you. I finally relized at least 50% of what she told me was a lie because it contradicted the other 50% . Always. Actions speak louder than words. Jerk that I am I still miss her and think about her constantly, I almost called her today after 2 weeks of NC on my part. But I talkedmy self out of it. All I need to do is come on here and listen to the logic of TM and others.

[Lizzie60]

She just told me that they haven't had sex since November. WTF?

 

 

Then how exactly do you know she's lying????????????

[norajane]

TaraMaiden you don't understand me. There was a person entitled to marry them (not priest). They're married, but the procedure to break it is as simple as sending a post-card. They don't have to sign some papers. She is breaking the agreement and leaves.

 

Your location says Paris and Warsaw. I was not aware that in Paris or Warsaw that a legal marriage only required a postcard to dissolve it.

 

If it's not a legal marriage but some arrangement between them, then the fact that she isn't taking that postcard way out shows you that she doesn't want to leave the arrangement she has with him, despite what she tells you.

 

And that should be more important to you than whether she's having sex with him or not, because it means you are never going to get what you want if what you want is for her to leave him to be with you.

[silverplanets]

There's simply NO way a marriage can be legally dissolved by postcard .. so she is either lying to you in saying that it can, or lying in that she is not married or (most likely) lying to herself about the serious steps she needs to go through to get divorced.

 

Assuming she ever does ask for a divorce then her H will come into play .. he will (probably) burst into tears, promise to change, and do everything in his power to convince her to stay. Her family will do the same. There is every likelihood he will promise her a child if she stays etc etc

 

You (at this time) will be outside and alone and hanging on and, to be honest, falling apart.

 

Best case is she leaves him but then has unresovled issues and so starts going back to him and a destructive yo-yo develops.

 

Worst case is that she agrees to MC which strings on for 6 months or so, by which time the D still hasn't been finalised and she either decides to stay with him or stays in limbo.

 

Whichever way by the time this will be over you will be a TRAIN WRECK. Have been sucked into the ins and outs of a marriage breaking up, be left now knowing where you are for possibly years and each and every day you will be missing out on real people who CAN commit to a relationship with you.

 

As another poster has mentioned she stood in front of someone else, looked them in the eye and promised them the world ... and now she's doing the same to you.

 

At the very least, she needs to a) get divorced and b) undergo enough therapy to clearly understand herself as a person and what she wants.

 

If she said she stopped sleeping with him in November then I suggest that's a minimum truth ... it's the minimum she thinks you will believe ... we've just had Christmas and she either put out for him OR would have left immediately afterwards determined that this would have been the last wasted christmas of her life. She is still there so I leave you to work out which it was.

 

I am not saying YOU don't love her, I fully believe you do .. but you need to get out of this mess right now imho.

 

Giving her what she wants at this stage (ie her cake) is THE WORST thing you can do if you want to have any chance of being with her.

 

What you need to do is respect yourself and hope that some of that respect rubs off on her (and if it doesn't then it was never there in the first place).

 

Arrange to see her or email and tell her that although you do love her you need a proper relationship and that unless she has signed divorce papers you simply don't want any part of it.

 

She'll rant, rave, seduce and otherwise try and push your buttons but DON'T GO there ...

 

No need to get mad and DON'T promise anything silly like "I will be there when you leave him" .. or "I will not see anyone else etc" .. if you do that you are just giving her control over your life.

 

Then you need to politely go to no contact and get over this current pain.

 

If she files for D now then it will be between 1 and 3 years (imho) before she is truly free and emotionally ready ... and then you can make up your mind based upon the real person who you see in front of you at that point .. not some false person whose able to be "sweet" all the time because her H has to put up with all her negative sides.

 

If she doen't leave him then she never was going to .. period.

 

Just don't leave yourself tied in, no matter how convincing she is. And remember tears are not a reason to override your common sense instincts !!!

 

She has to sort her life out ... you have to preserve yours right now.

 

You are in a R with someone who was sleeping with someone else v recently (and prob is now), and who stood up in front of someone else and promised to be faithful to him (and hasn't). If she is grown up enough to do all this then she is grown up enough to initiate and complete a divorce.

 

I'm sorry man, I know it hurst where you are right now but you've GOT to wake up and smell the coffee ... she may not be doing it deliberately but that's not going to matter to your life when it becomes a train wreck.

 

If you don't believe you deserve better than crumbs from a married woman then get yourself down to a counsellor and work out YOUR issues ... you're as special as any of us on this planet which means you deserve your OWN relationship.

 

Close it down, get a third party perspective on why you got into this, deal with any issues and get YOUR life going.

 

She will find you in a few years if she is serious, and then you will be able to talk about it all rationally (if you still want to !)

[reboot]

I often wonder why people don't stop and consider that single women (and men) don't have all this baggage......

[TaraMaiden]

Poland and Paris.

both member states of the EU.

Both are almost entirely Roman Catholic.

Both have legal marriages.

She's either legally married, or she isn't.

 

There is NO 'postcard' arrangement, in either country.

 

A church wedding on its own, is not legally recognised as a binding contractual arrangement in France. You need to make a binding contractual marriage by FIRST having a Civil Ceremony. If she's in France, and they only had a church ceremony, (which is almost impossible) then in the eyes of the Law they're not married.

But there is no written arrangement to be broken.

Either party can just walk away.

If she had a civil ceremony, then she needs to file officially for divorce.

(I know. I lived in France for just over 6 years.)

 

If she lives in Poland, both Church weddings AND Civil marriages are legally binding, and require an official divorce.

[Charlemagne]

They are officialy married in Poland. If they don't have any kids or any mutual property then it's really easy. If she really wants to leave him she can do it in 30 minutes, and this is not performed by sending a postcard it was just a methapor. My English is not very good, but I was saying as simple as sending a post-card not by sending a post-card. Now I hope this is clear.

 

Jennie-Jennie: I thought they f.. almost everyday. It's a young couple (20 and 22 yo.)

 

Lizzie60: Because some evidence of her behavior (not words) implies that. Sometimes she really doesn't have an excuse and is really weak at lying (ironic isn't it?)

 

silverplanets: Thank you very much for your comprehensive reply. I'm really frightened by the idea of her husband interrupting us. She lives in his house with his whole family, so there will be 5:1. She is really afraid that this family and their common friends (the only one she has) will turn around.

 

I know my situation and I really understand how stupid it is. I should have never allowed her to come into my life, but this has happened.

 

Why shouldn't I promise her something like "I will be there when you leave him" or "I will not see anyone else etc" If I won't be there for her so who will be? That's the most important part. She doesn't know anyone in this city, and her husband and their friends are the whole world for her. I MUST be there for her and she must be certain about it. And when I will be seeing anyone else what example I will be giving her? I love you but I can f.. other girls? So you love me and you can do the same? It's not ok, and I'm trying to show it.

 

We will see in the next week for 2 or even 3 days. She told me that this meeting is crucial and after that she will make a decision. If not I will leave her. I will give her an ultimatum. Him or Me. 2 weeks, not talk, just a decision. I think it's right.