Jeff1962 Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 Been married for 20 years, 2 kids. We've had our up's and downs like any couple. Sex at times has been so, so. Then a long dry spell, then so, so another long dry spell. Then we go for eachother like we did when we first met. Then so, so, then a very long dry spell. The last dry spell was 7 months. My wife told me the other nite that she felt that I need someone who is more sexual. I was hurt over this and this is not a good sign at all. I'm confused. I pay attention to my wife. I rub her back when she wants me to, I rub her feet. I listen to her and not try to fix everything, I listen. I call and text her. I give her space when needed. I'm very lonely and hurt. A little background. I was experienced when we met. She was a virgin. I hold a very high regard for my wife, her opinion of me matters very much. I cannot imagine being with anyone else. I love her. She is a friend that I do not want to loose. Tonite we went to eat at a bar and grill. She saw a female aquantance there and her date. Long story short, this gal starts coming on to me in front of her date and my wife. It was totally abvious, her date was uncomfortable. I can tell my wife is uncomfortable, I was uncomfortable. When we leave, my wife does not say a word about it, no mention at all. I know she was jelious, I would have been totally pissed. Her not even recognizing this happened hurts me and makes me feel like she does not care. My wife is the only woman that I have truely loved. I'm tired of being alone. I can only masturbate so much. Maybe she is right, maybe I do need someone who is more sexually compatable. If this is true, then my heart is going to be more broken than it already is. I just do not know what to do.
quankanne Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 get thee to counseling and learn how to communicate even better than before. Because what I hear behind the words "My wife told me the other nite that she felt that I need someone who is more sexual," is someone who is feeling insecure about what she's able to give you. my guess is that she understands that you're being cheated out of a healthy sex life, but is afraid to address it for whatever reasons – that you're going to reject her for not having a high sex drive, or that you're going to blame her completely ... by learning how to address the issues in a calm setting, where you're able to happily work towards solutions – and understand/know that love is a solid foundation to your marriage – you're going to see your marriage undergo a huge, positive change. my husband and I went on a marriage enrichment retreat about 10 years ago, and he will tell you it was the best thing we ever did for the relationship. I'm thinking it's because we finally understood where we each were coming from and what we had in mind as a "good marriage." *smile* if she's bothered by (and jealous of) her friend's behavior, oh, honey, she still wants YOU, even though she might be saying things that might suggest otherwise. so don't give up, but give it all you've got to make this into y'alls ideal marriage. You won't regret making that effort.
Author Jeff1962 Posted January 7, 2010 Author Posted January 7, 2010 *smile* if she's bothered by (and jealous of) her friend's behavior, oh, honey, she still wants YOU, even though she might be saying things that might suggest otherwise. Thank you for your advise. Thing is, she did not breathe a word over what happened at the bar afterward. This makes me feel as if she could care less. I did not expect her to freak out or anything but to totally ignore that it happened is weird to me. Makes me wonder. I dislike playing games.
mem11363 Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 You insisted she go to counseling with you - the focus of the counseling being why she has these long spells during which she deliberately chooses not to tell you what is wrong. In that therapy you need to learn how to be more attractive and less available. You need to STOP saying you cannot imagine being with anyone else. You need to start saying I KNOW WE WILL ALWAYS BE FRIENDS. This is a key message - it means that you accept that the sexual part of your relationship COULD end. Been married for 20 years, 2 kids. We've had our up's and downs like any couple. Sex at times has been so, so. Then a long dry spell, then so, so another long dry spell. Then we go for eachother like we did when we first met. Then so, so, then a very long dry spell. The last dry spell was 7 months. My wife told me the other nite that she felt that I need someone who is more sexual. I was hurt over this and this is not a good sign at all. I'm confused. I pay attention to my wife. I rub her back when she wants me to, I rub her feet. I listen to her and not try to fix everything, I listen. I call and text her. I give her space when needed. I'm very lonely and hurt. A little background. I was experienced when we met. She was a virgin. I hold a very high regard for my wife, her opinion of me matters very much. I cannot imagine being with anyone else. I love her. She is a friend that I do not want to loose. Tonite we went to eat at a bar and grill. She saw a female aquantance there and her date. Long story short, this gal starts coming on to me in front of her date and my wife. It was totally abvious, her date was uncomfortable. I can tell my wife is uncomfortable, I was uncomfortable. When we leave, my wife does not say a word about it, no mention at all. I know she was jelious, I would have been totally pissed. Her not even recognizing this happened hurts me and makes me feel like she does not care. My wife is the only woman that I have truely loved. I'm tired of being alone. I can only masturbate so much. Maybe she is right, maybe I do need someone who is more sexually compatable. If this is true, then my heart is going to be more broken than it already is. I just do not know what to do.
Author Jeff1962 Posted January 7, 2010 Author Posted January 7, 2010 You insisted she go to counseling with you - the focus of the counseling being why she has these long spells during which she deliberately chooses not to tell you what is wrong. In that therapy you need to learn how to be more attractive and less available. You need to STOP saying you cannot imagine being with anyone else. You need to start saying I KNOW WE WILL ALWAYS BE FRIENDS. This is a key message - it means that you accept that the sexual part of your relationship COULD end. Well, we have not been to counseling. But I agree with everything else you had to say even though it hurts. Thank you.
WalkInThePark Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 If you are both healthy, regular sex is conditio sine qua non in a relationship. I don't understand how a marriage can last if there is so little sex. It is so vital, it is the glue. In a good relationship you have an intellectual, emotional and sexual connection. Has it always been like that? How was this when you were just married? I will never understand how people want to stay together with someone who does not offer them a satisfying sexual relationship. I guess some people do not feel OK in their body. But why do those people not marry each other instead of frustrate people with a normal/healthy sex drive?
Toodamnpragmatic Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) Just have to say I am sorry..... Just look for mem11363 or my other posts (click our names) and it will show all our posts and you will see the majority are those concerning lack of sex in marriages and the effect and what one should attempt to do (most seem unsuccessful at this point). Also search JamesM or Giotto and their situations. Note all of us mid-late 40's, 20+ years married/partnered with 2-4 kids.... All a little different situations, but generally posting/responding about these scenarios.... Should give you great (at least some:p) insight. Edited January 7, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic
whichwayisup Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 You have to take the lead here and start talking to her, tell her how you feel and don't let her off the hook. She's your wife, you're her husband - You have a family.. Marriage takes effort, daily effort - And if she's unwilling to meet you half way, then yes, there's a problem. But why do those people not marry each other instead of frustrate people with a normal/healthy sex drive? Because sadly, this stuff does change as the years pass on by. It takes effort and communication between BOTH spouses to keep things on the straight and narrow. Yet, sometimes it's just too easy to not make an effort and live with the status quo..
Author Jeff1962 Posted January 7, 2010 Author Posted January 7, 2010 If you are both healthy, regular sex is conditio sine qua non in a relationship. I don't understand how a marriage can last if there is so little sex. It is so vital, it is the glue. In a good relationship you have an intellectual, emotional and sexual connection. Has it always been like that? How was this when you were just married? I will never understand how people want to stay together with someone who does not offer them a satisfying sexual relationship. I guess some people do not feel OK in their body. But why do those people not marry each other instead of frustrate people with a normal/healthy sex drive? Just have to say I am sorry..... Just look for mem11363 or my other posts (click our names) and it will show all our posts and you will see the majority are those concerning lack of sex in marriages and the effect and what one should attempt to do (most seem unsuccessful at this point). Also search JamesM or Giotto and their situations. Note all of us mid-late 40's, 20+ years married/partnered with 2-4 kids.... All a little different situations, but generally posting/responding about these scenarios.... Should give you great (at least some:p) insight. Thank you for your advise. I appreciate established members interacting with a new member. Sounds like I am not alone. Our sex life has been on and off again throughout our marriage. Thing is though, I'm a very sexual individual, I have a normal male sex drive. I start to get frustrated because I feel that I meet her needs, physically, emotionally. I rub her back and her feet and neck when she wants me to (all the damn time). I do little things for her, I listen to her, we talk. We spend time together, we are friends. She sometimes teases me throughout the day with little sexual hints and I'm thinking that I'm going to get lucky, then nothing. I'm like, WTH is this? To be honest we've not been very sexual for the past year and the times that we have, she has had an orgasm everytime but I have not once. I know nothing is wrong with me because I can bring myself to orgasm. She get's her feelings hurt and I'm thinking my God, do I have to draw you a map on how to treat my body, especially after 20 years? Aaarrrgggghhhhh. I'm starting to look at other women in a sexual way and I only want to be with my wife. I am frustrated to a T. I feel that it is only a matter of time because I am human and desire the closeness of sex. I really don't want to go that route because I love her and I do not want to hurt her. I am very faithfully frustrated.
mem11363 Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 Jeff, I have read a lot of boards over the years and there is one guy who I think has a better understanding of this then anyone else. His best post on this subject is below. If his post makes sense to you, and you are willing to have some conflict at home - then you can likely improve your situation greatly. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ATHOLK post from last year It's very hard to get my entire approach to marriage in this format down, and to be honest it's mostly working best in making average/good relationships better, rather than salvaging bad ones. Once people have cheated or otherwise checked out of reality it's really hard to bring that back to what it was. Loosely summarized - women respond to men exhibiting positive versions of two primary male traits called Alpha Male and Beta Male. Alpha Male is devoted to physicality, assertiveness, leadership, social dominance, healthy genes, raw sexual energy, power and at times even violence. The positive version is thats of an inspiring protector and the not so positive is simply a thug. This is the male aspect that just gets panties wet and triggers attraction. Thugs still get panties wet, they are just scary to be a relationship with. The Beta Male is devoted to personality traits that ultimately are good for rasing children. Work ethic, building the nest, kindess, parenting skills, listening, holding a job, controlling anger and sexual energy, art, language and creativity. The positive version is the family man that provides and supports, the negative version is the mangina that gives away all relationship power to the woman. Good Betas build relationship comfort. When the woman is given too much comfort and not enough attraction, she becomes bored with her partner. Often the begining of the end. (Queue up the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" speech.) The man needs to develop and show both Alpha and Beta traits over a long term relationship and show them appropriately. Most men typically do better with one or the other of these traits, and in times of pressure (like a break up) just act more and more from their position of natural strength. Natural Alpha's get bigger and louder and become scarier and even less reliable. Natural Beta's do more stuff for the woman and bore her to death with their neediness even faster. So more often than not, their natural reaction to relationship stress just intensifies the relationship problem. So if you're too Beta the solution is to add Alpha. If you're too Alpha, the solution is to add Beta. It is exceptionally important to balance both positive traits in a long term relationship. Women have a monthly sexual cycle with changing hormones that affects what they are more attracted to throughout the month. For about three weeks of the month women respond more positively to Beta Male behavior. But when she is ovulating Alpha Male behavior is highly attractive. Importantly - while ovulation is only a small part of the month, this is when she will make her most critical sexual decisions and is at her horniest. Husbands that fail to display Alpha traits specially during ovulation run a higher risk for being either abandoned, cheated on, or rasing children they think are theirs but aren't. In terms of myself, I more naturally fall along lines of Beta behavior. My marriage has always been decent, but I've seen many improvements by learning to up the Alpha stuff. Also a common misconception is that Alpha behavior involves some sort of aggression towards the wife (yelling, hitting, property destruction, issuing demands, bossing her about etc) These things do work to change her behavior, but only in the very short term as they undercut the positive Beta traits and ultimately destory the relationship. Ultimately the best Alpha display is that you're just going to make your way into the world with confidence and just succeed at whatever it is that you're going to do. Opinions of the rest of the world be damned, you're your own man. And like a huge truck on the interstate, you just create a huge hole in the air that makes following you easy. Thank you for your advise. I appreciate established members interacting with a new member. Sounds like I am not alone. Our sex life has been on and off again throughout our marriage. Thing is though, I'm a very sexual individual, I have a normal male sex drive. I start to get frustrated because I feel that I meet her needs, physically, emotionally. I rub her back and her feet and neck when she wants me to (all the damn time). I do little things for her, I listen to her, we talk. We spend time together, we are friends. She sometimes teases me throughout the day with little sexual hints and I'm thinking that I'm going to get lucky, then nothing. I'm like, WTH is this? To be honest we've not been very sexual for the past year and the times that we have, she has had an orgasm everytime but I have not once. I know nothing is wrong with me because I can bring myself to orgasm. She get's her feelings hurt and I'm thinking my God, do I have to draw you a map on how to treat my body, especially after 20 years? Aaarrrgggghhhhh. I'm starting to look at other women in a sexual way and I only want to be with my wife. I am frustrated to a T. I feel that it is only a matter of time because I am human and desire the closeness of sex. I really don't want to go that route because I love her and I do not want to hurt her. I am very faithfully frustrated.
Author Jeff1962 Posted January 7, 2010 Author Posted January 7, 2010 Jeff, I have read a lot of boards over the years and there is one guy who I think has a better understanding of this then anyone else. His best post on this subject is below. If his post makes sense to you, and you are willing to have some conflict at home - then you can likely improve your situation greatly. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ATHOLK post from last year It's very hard to get my entire approach to marriage in this format down, and to be honest it's mostly working best in making average/good relationships better, rather than salvaging bad ones. Once people have cheated or otherwise checked out of reality it's really hard to bring that back to what it was. Loosely summarized - women respond to men exhibiting positive versions of two primary male traits called Alpha Male and Beta Male. Alpha Male is devoted to physicality, assertiveness, leadership, social dominance, healthy genes, raw sexual energy, power and at times even violence. The positive version is thats of an inspiring protector and the not so positive is simply a thug. This is the male aspect that just gets panties wet and triggers attraction. Thugs still get panties wet, they are just scary to be a relationship with. The Beta Male is devoted to personality traits that ultimately are good for rasing children. Work ethic, building the nest, kindess, parenting skills, listening, holding a job, controlling anger and sexual energy, art, language and creativity. The positive version is the family man that provides and supports, the negative version is the mangina that gives away all relationship power to the woman. Good Betas build relationship comfort. When the woman is given too much comfort and not enough attraction, she becomes bored with her partner. Often the begining of the end. (Queue up the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" speech.) The man needs to develop and show both Alpha and Beta traits over a long term relationship and show them appropriately. Most men typically do better with one or the other of these traits, and in times of pressure (like a break up) just act more and more from their position of natural strength. Natural Alpha's get bigger and louder and become scarier and even less reliable. Natural Beta's do more stuff for the woman and bore her to death with their neediness even faster. So more often than not, their natural reaction to relationship stress just intensifies the relationship problem. So if you're too Beta the solution is to add Alpha. If you're too Alpha, the solution is to add Beta. It is exceptionally important to balance both positive traits in a long term relationship. Women have a monthly sexual cycle with changing hormones that affects what they are more attracted to throughout the month. For about three weeks of the month women respond more positively to Beta Male behavior. But when she is ovulating Alpha Male behavior is highly attractive. Importantly - while ovulation is only a small part of the month, this is when she will make her most critical sexual decisions and is at her horniest. Husbands that fail to display Alpha traits specially during ovulation run a higher risk for being either abandoned, cheated on, or rasing children they think are theirs but aren't. In terms of myself, I more naturally fall along lines of Beta behavior. My marriage has always been decent, but I've seen many improvements by learning to up the Alpha stuff. Also a common misconception is that Alpha behavior involves some sort of aggression towards the wife (yelling, hitting, property destruction, issuing demands, bossing her about etc) These things do work to change her behavior, but only in the very short term as they undercut the positive Beta traits and ultimately destory the relationship. Ultimately the best Alpha display is that you're just going to make your way into the world with confidence and just succeed at whatever it is that you're going to do. Opinions of the rest of the world be damned, you're your own man. And like a huge truck on the interstate, you just create a huge hole in the air that makes following you easy. Good read and thank you for reposting it for me. I fall somewhere in between Alpha and Beta. I'm a little of both, I used to be all Alpha. To be honest, I've stopped doing certian things for her, not in punishment but, just to say hey, it goes both ways. If she's had a bad day, I still listen I just don't have much to say. She tries to talk to me and I'm not rude but I'm pretty much to the point of the matter. I've stopped approaching her over sex. I'm still hurting and frustrated but I'm also like, hey, I cannot live my life around these issues, I have to be happy. So, I have a lot of issues to think about. Again, thank you.
WalkInThePark Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Good read and thank you for reposting it for me. I fall somewhere in between Alpha and Beta. I'm a little of both, I used to be all Alpha. To be honest, I've stopped doing certian things for her, not in punishment but, just to say hey, it goes both ways. If she's had a bad day, I still listen I just don't have much to say. She tries to talk to me and I'm not rude but I'm pretty much to the point of the matter. I've stopped approaching her over sex. I'm still hurting and frustrated but I'm also like, hey, I cannot live my life around these issues, I have to be happy. So, I have a lot of issues to think about. Again, thank you. Jeff, mem11363 is always giving this advice to men who are not satisfied with the sexual relationship they have with their wife. But I am a woman and I can tell you that his approach would not work with me. For me a guy who is behaving too alpha is a turn-off. For me sexual desire is a result of feeling close to my partner so if he behaves too macho and tries to frustrate me, I will only feel pushed away. I think you have to find something that works for you and your wife. And I think you also have to think if and why you want your relationship to last. Men don't like to completely change their life but is that love? Your partner should be your best friend. I think that openly communicating about sex and satisfying each other sexually is part of that.
Author Jeff1962 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Posted January 8, 2010 Jeff, mem11363 is always giving this advice to men who are not satisfied with the sexual relationship they have with their wife. But I am a woman and I can tell you that his approach would not work with me. For me a guy who is behaving too alpha is a turn-off. For me sexual desire is a result of feeling close to my partner so if he behaves too macho and tries to frustrate me, I will only feel pushed away. I think you have to find something that works for you and your wife. And I think you also have to think if and why you want your relationship to last. Men don't like to completely change their life but is that love? Your partner should be your best friend. I think that openly communicating about sex and satisfying each other sexually is part of that. I want our realtionship to last. My wife is my best friend. I hold her in high regard, her opinion means very much to me, she is a good person. I love her with my heart. I miss the emotional closeness of sex. It's not SEX it'self that I miss so much as everything that goes along with it. I miss her. I could go on and on. I kind of get the Alpha male thing but I do not totally agreee with it. I would never force my opinion or my will upon my wife, I respect her too much, this is just not how I am. We have openly communicated over sex. I am very sexual and passionate. Sometimes, I'm a freak. She's a little more reserved. I know my way around her body and how to please her but sometimes I feel as if I need to draw her a map with instructions over my body. I don't feel as if I get the same passion and desire that I give. Does this makes sense? I wish that she would be a little more open with me. I know that we love eachother. I just don't know what to do.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) I want our realtionship to last. My wife is my best friend. I hold her in high regard, her opinion means very much to me, she is a good person. I love her with my heart. I miss the emotional closeness of sex. It's not SEX it'self that I miss so much as everything that goes along with it. I miss her. I could go on and on. I kind of get the Alpha male thing but I do not totally agreee with it. I would never force my opinion or my will upon my wife, I respect her too much, this is just not how I am. We have openly communicated over sex. I am very sexual and passionate. Sometimes, I'm a freak. She's a little more reserved. I know my way around her body and how to please her but sometimes I feel as if I need to draw her a map with instructions over my body. I don't feel as if I get the same passion and desire that I give. Does this makes sense? I wish that she would be a little more open with me. I know that we love eachother. I just don't know what to do. I'm not sure this one is fixable as you present a different scenario, that has seldom been posted. You have trouble orgasming with your wife and frankly don't enjoy sex with your wife. Us others (and all that have posted this issue), all love sex when we have it and lament about the frequency or the excuses our spouse gives. You do everything asked of you, but are so unhappy at your wife's "skill", along with the always lamented frequency, that you are at your wits end. You've written her a road map, but have you read books together on "sex" and discussed it? Have you told her exactly what you want? Have you told her how often? Have you asked her what she sees as a solution to all this? Are you looking for "kinky" sex or for her to fill a prediliction that you have? We all claim we bring our spouses to orgasm and they enjoy the act. You are the first who does not enjoy or has an orgasm and that brings an entirely different set of issues to light. I really at am at a loss to give you an answer..... And yes mem11363 always beats the same Alpha/Beta drum.... Trust me I am like you a Beta, but I can tell you my spouse thinks I have Alpha traits and she doesn't like those at all..... Edited January 8, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic
mem11363 Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) Here is our unique blend - everyone likes their coffee different, this works very well for us. Areas where wife is alpha and I am beta. And I will refine this a bit below but to start beta does NOT mean submissive. It means friendly, engaged, helpful and very flexible on the outcome. In almost all these areas wife has a very narrow comfort zone - we look at 20 paint colors - she is ok with 2, I am ok with 19. My only demand - and yes it is a demand is that she not select the one paint color I truly dislike. And in cases where I am fine with all of them - I say so. Many times nothing on the selection list is a problem for me - so she gets carte blanch. Wife is alpha I am beta 1. All areas of home decor. Every single thing that goes inside/outside the house. She drives all of this. There is one area where we have rare but painful conflict over this and that is regarding consumer electronics. Sometimes she doesn't like how something looks - like a flat screen tv. We work it out but it can be fractious. Worst case we demote the item to a less used room. She has excellent taste and I loved what she gradually did to both homes over time. 2. TV shows, radio stations, supermarket magazines that get brought home 3. How we spend money. She is very careful with money - so despite the first 19 years I made 100 percent of the money - she had more control over how we spent it. See selected our house two different times both times after we agreed on a price range. In both cases they were not my favorite houses at the point of sale and in both cases I later concluded she had made a great/maybe the best choice. She drove the car buying for her car, and me for mine. She HATES my car. She never has to drive it - seriously - she has maybe driven it 5 times in 10 years. She has no reason for hating it - it is very safe - volvo. She gently tries to get me to sell it every now and then. I believe she feels her authority in this situation while murky is derived from the fact that the car is "loosely" part of the house we as we have established she has utter control over. When she mentions MY car I slide quietly into alpha mode and ask - then repeat a single question until she changes the subject. Do you believe the degree of input you have on my car, should be substantially greater then the frequency with which you drive it? I rarely have to ask that more then twice. Wife is very bright. 4. How we spend our time. I like most types of games - when I suggest we play a game - mostly I let her select which card/board game she wants. Again same rules apply as for everything else - if I have something I really dislike I state my preference firmly. The beauty of the situation is that if you like almost everything, no one begrudges you the occasional dislike. When we are apart we are both indifferent to what/where/with whom the other is. 5. Who drives. When we go out we always take her car and she always drives unless it is very late and she asks me to drive. We both have excellent driving records and drive well. She likes to drive - I don't care - and honestly she is very critical of my driving - unfairly so - and so I strongly prefer NOT to drive with her. She is so not a bittch she simply has a narrow comfort zone. 6. Clothing - she picks hers and mine and she gets to select my outfit when we go out. These areas are 50/50 1. Food choices 2. Parenting decisions of all types 3. Politics/religion - we don't see eye to eye on everything - LOL - so we have mostly very enjoyable conversations 4. Tone of voice used when speaking to each other: If either speaks in a non respectful tone they can expect to get a quick and vibrant response 5. Conflict over ANYTHING - once conflict begins both of us slide quietly or not so quietly into alpha lawyer mode. We both stay there until someone prevails. Not fun - sometimes quite painful. As to who wins the conflict I actually think 50/50 is correct BUT our scoring algorithm is super complex - I don't always grasp it. For instance - as hobbyist lawyers - neither of us has a degree - we carefully track each of our partners separate offences. This is important because during the punishment phase it is not sufficient to say "sorry for being a jerk last night - oh no - not uh" You have to own up to each inappropriate act/remark and each gets its own apology. Serious infractions require multiple apologies. 6. Humor - this is a big one - we both banter with each other all the time. This is one reason I am so flexible about what we do - she is so fun. I have a good time doing just about anything with her. These areas I am alpha and she is beta 1. Sex: Same rules apply to her as do for me above. I will try to be concise here. She has always always known that I have a high sex drive and for us to be happy as a couple - our sexual relationship needs to be good for BOTH of us. For much of our relationship two things were true: - I was sexually selfish (meaning our compromise on sexual frequency was heavily slanted to what I wanted) - She did not grasp the emotional component of sex (meaning that instead of saying - on a night when she didn't want to - "baby I know you are hot tonight - but I am wiped - I will totally rock your world tomorrow - and P.S. no one loves you more then me - all delivered during a hug"). Had she known how to do that - we would have had LESS sex and we BOTH would have been happier. Instead she would simply come to bed late - her passive aggressive way of letting me know she didn't really want to - I would wait up though - angry but horny - and we WOULD have sex. This actually makes me sad - looking back on it. NOT happy like I got my way. Just - ughhh - why did this have to be so painful for both of us. For the last 6-7 years - I have almost entirely stopped pressuring her to have sex - the way pressure was never physical. And she has learned how to say "how about tomorrow" in a lovely manner that leaves no hard feelings. As for the whole alpha/beta piece of sex. Simple example - at any point in the day I simply look at her and say "I NEED you baby" - she has a reflex response which is "I am all over it" - said with a smile. And then barring a natural disaster she gets in bed early and ..... So here is the punchline on all this. I make love to my wife all day long. Through acts of kindness, by remembering things she cares about - by bantering with her in a spicy manner when she is being especially nutty or hard to please. And at least for the last year, when we get in bed at night - more often then not - SHE wants to make love as much or more then I do. 2. Vacation planning: She likes me to plan and select our itinerary. So I do. I would be fine if she did. Thats it. I mean sure there is more but that really is pretty much the dynamic. Jeff, mem11363 is always giving this advice to men who are not satisfied with the sexual relationship they have with their wife. But I am a woman and I can tell you that his approach would not work with me. For me a guy who is behaving too alpha is a turn-off. For me sexual desire is a result of feeling close to my partner so if he behaves too macho and tries to frustrate me, I will only feel pushed away. I think you have to find something that works for you and your wife. And I think you also have to think if and why you want your relationship to last. Men don't like to completely change their life but is that love? Your partner should be your best friend. I think that openly communicating about sex and satisfying each other sexually is part of that. Edited January 8, 2010 by mem11363
WalkInThePark Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 I want our realtionship to last. My wife is my best friend. I hold her in high regard, her opinion means very much to me, she is a good person. I love her with my heart. I miss the emotional closeness of sex. It's not SEX it'self that I miss so much as everything that goes along with it. I miss her. I could go on and on. I kind of get the Alpha male thing but I do not totally agreee with it. I would never force my opinion or my will upon my wife, I respect her too much, this is just not how I am. We have openly communicated over sex. I am very sexual and passionate. Sometimes, I'm a freak. She's a little more reserved. I know my way around her body and how to please her but sometimes I feel as if I need to draw her a map with instructions over my body. I don't feel as if I get the same passion and desire that I give. Does this makes sense? I wish that she would be a little more open with me. I know that we love eachother. I just don't know what to do. Jeff, if your wife is your best friend then why does she not want to give you sexual satisfaction, and why has she not made sure that after 20 years she knows what works for you in bed? Honestly, reading the posts here of guys married for more than 20 years with an unsatisfying sex life AND having heard this from my xMM as well, I really start to wonder if guys prefer to marry a woman with whom they don't have a good sexual relationship. As if a woman who likes sex, would not make a good partner. Mem, I am not talking about you because you seem to be very happy in your marriage.
mem11363 Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 I don't know about the initial behavior of the women these guys married. I do know that I frequently see serious contradictions in the posts here. for example - Jeff talks about being more alpha then beta - I self describe as more beta then alpha. And yet I would never tolerate the day of flirting followed by no sex. In fact - very simple - after enough flirting that wife has succeeded and I am aroused I would simply say: "Mission accomplished I am now thinking about tearing your clothes off tonight - are you in?" This is a clear message of - you flirted - I want you - a sane wife will say yes and will follow through that night. A difficult/manipulative wife will say "lets see how it goes - or I am not sure". And my reaction to that would be - "we already have mismatched drives - it is truly cruel to wind me up and then not connect with me - why are you doing that?" FWIW - One very common behavior in sexually broken marriages is that the low drive spouse wants to KNOW the high drive spouse still loves/desires them. So they WILL flirt - but they typically don't want to consumate - which is torture for the high drive spouse. Jeff, if your wife is your best friend then why does she not want to give you sexual satisfaction, and why has she not made sure that after 20 years she knows what works for you in bed? Honestly, reading the posts here of guys married for more than 20 years with an unsatisfying sex life AND having heard this from my xMM as well, I really start to wonder if guys prefer to marry a woman with whom they don't have a good sexual relationship. As if a woman who likes sex, would not make a good partner. Mem, I am not talking about you because you seem to be very happy in your marriage.
Author Jeff1962 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Posted January 8, 2010 - I was sexually selfish (meaning our compromise on sexual frequency was heavily slanted to what I wanted) - She did not grasp the emotional component of sex (meaning that instead of saying - on a night when she didn't want to - "baby I know you are hot tonight - but I am wiped - I will totally rock your world tomorrow - and P.S. no one loves you more then me - all delivered during a hug"). Had she known how to do that - we would have had LESS sex and we BOTH would have been happier. Instead she would simply come to bed late - her passive aggressive way of letting me know she didn't really want to - I would wait up though - angry but horny - and we WOULD have sex. This actually makes me sad - looking back on it. NOT happy like I got my way. Just - ughhh - why did this have to be so painful for both of us. So here is the punchline on all this. I make love to my wife all day long. Through acts of kindness, by remembering things she cares about - by bantering with her in a spicy manner when she is being especially nutty or hard to please. I am so right there with you. My wife has very good taste (she did marry me, lolz). We both contribute to the decor of the house but they are female approved and female driven of course and I don't mind this at all, like I said, she's very tasteful and I approve and enjoy her taste in decor. It's very comfortable. Over the years she has learned my taste in clothing, I am very picky. I am a professional designer so I do have a sense of color/style and know what I like. It's about a 50/50 thingie. If she totally hates something, I don't buy it. Her opinion matters to me and I want to look nice for her and vise versa. Maybe I have been sending mixed signals here as far as the sex goes. I do enjoy making love with my wife. She turns me on, she's the bomb. We are both in great shape, I think she is hot and I tell her and show her, she always tells me how sexy she thinks I am. When we do make love, I know she is into it. I think the lack of my orgasm issue is part my problem. I've rarely been quick to orgasm, however there have been a few occasions. Our sex issue is not all my wife's fault. Most of the time, I fell as if life gets in the way and we simply do not take time for eachother in a sexual way. This, mixed with a lack of communication and arguing over petty issues just kills what could be pleasure. We go on dates, we spend time together, we are friends. How do I say this, when we first met, she was a virgin and I respect this so much. She would not sleep with me for 2 months after we first started dating. I hold this fact as a very high honor that she chose me. Early in our relationship/marriage we would try almost any position. Now, it is missionary or oral only. I have communicated with her that I miss trying different positions. I want to mix it up again. Hell, we use to go at it in the shower standing up, doggie, sideways. On the kitchen counter, in the laundry room. I get very frustrated over this issue and I take it personally and start to close up. We need to take time for eachother sexually. We make time for everything else. This is another thing that frustrates me to no end. I want her to open up to me and be a little more adventerious. Neither of us are into toys, porn or whips and chains, lol, but I want to mix it up a little.
quankanne Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 I don't understand how a marriage can last if there is so little sex. It is so vital, it is the glue. In a good relationship you have an intellectual, emotional and sexual connection. I will never understand how people want to stay together with someone who does not offer them a satisfying sexual relationship. until you've been in a relationship like this, it's gonna be like sighted people trying to explain a sunset or an elephant to someone who is blind. Experience is everything. can a marriage last with little or no sex? Of course it can. Doesn't mean that the principles are going to be happy about it, but by working together and coming to some satisfactory compromises about how you "share" your affection, you learn to live out your sexuality a different way. The act of sex is very, very important to marriage, but it is NOT the be-all, end-all of a healthy relationship. To make it (or any other facet) the most important thing, the deal-breaker, of a relationship is to have a skewed sense of what a "healthy" relationship is, IMO why do I stay if my needs haven't been met? Because no matter how frustrating it gets, my husband is the one person I still want to live out this adventure I call life. And that a bad day with him is still gonna be waaaaayyyyy better than the best day with another man ... this is who I've bonded with, and who I want to be with, and I'm willing to work with the disparity in our sexual drives because the whole of my relationship with him is more important than one single aspect of it. which is why I'm pushing the original person to seriously consider marriage enrichment and/or counseling ... until you two get the tools you need to communicate effectively with each other, the best you're going to do is make decisions or have reactions to what amounts to guessing what your wife is thinking/feeling.
Author Jeff1962 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Posted January 8, 2010 I don't understand how a marriage can last if there is so little sex. It is so vital, it is the glue. In a good relationship you have an intellectual, emotional and sexual connection. I will never understand how people want to stay together with someone who does not offer them a satisfying sexual relationship. until you've been in a relationship like this, it's gonna be like sighted people trying to explain a sunset or an elephant to someone who is blind. Experience is everything. can a marriage last with little or no sex? Of course it can. Doesn't mean that the principles are going to be happy about it, but by working together and coming to some satisfactory compromises about how you "share" your affection, you learn to live out your sexuality a different way. The act of sex is very, very important to marriage, but it is NOT the be-all, end-all of a healthy relationship. To make it (or any other facet) the most important thing, the deal-breaker, of a relationship is to have a skewed sense of what a "healthy" relationship is, IMO why do I stay if my needs haven't been met? Because no matter how frustrating it gets, my husband is the one person I still want to live out this adventure I call life. And that a bad day with him is still gonna be waaaaayyyyy better than the best day with another man ... this is who I've bonded with, and who I want to be with, and I'm willing to work with the disparity in our sexual drives because the whole of my relationship with him is more important than one single aspect of it. which is why I'm pushing the original person to seriously consider marriage enrichment and/or counseling ... until you two get the tools you need to communicate effectively with each other, the best you're going to do is make decisions or have reactions to what amounts to guessing what your wife is thinking/feeling. Quoted for truth in every way. Thank you.
WalkInThePark Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 until you've been in a relationship like this, it's gonna be like sighted people trying to explain a sunset or an elephant to someone who is blind. Experience is everything. I don't think you need to experience something to know what it is. why do I stay if my needs haven't been met? Because no matter how frustrating it gets, my husband is the one person I still want to live out this adventure I call life. And that a bad day with him is still gonna be waaaaayyyyy better than the best day with another man ... this is who I've bonded with, and who I want to be with, and I'm willing to work with the disparity in our sexual drives because the whole of my relationship with him is more important than one single aspect of it. I have not read your posts here so I don't know if you have problems in your marriage and what kind of problems they are, but I think that disparity in sexual drive is not a given in a relationship. I actually think that it is possible to have a smooth sexual relationship. I am in favour of working on your relationship but I don't believe that a lot of frustration or unmet needs are a recipe for happiness. There is nothing wrong with a relationship that is easy. which is why I'm pushing the original person to seriously consider marriage enrichment and/or counseling ... until you two get the tools you need to communicate effectively with each other, the best you're going to do is make decisions or have reactions to what amounts to guessing what your wife is thinking/feeling. People can communicate until they are blue in the face, if you are not compatible, if you are not a good match, it won't work. People change, people evolve. Sometimes in the same direction, sometimes it enriches the relationship. But sometimes in different directions, especially if they married when they were young.
HeyThere Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) Jeff, You have gotten a great deal of excellent advice from both sexes here. My wife wants less foreplay before we get into bed than I do. She doesn’t express an interest in fantasies (although she loves mine) or talk much about sex. To me the main sexual organ is the brain and the body amplifies those thoughts and feelings. I sometimes get frustrated trying to stimulate my wife’s fantasy arena. My wife loves sex, I know that. She flashes me at crazy and unexpected places, mostly the kitchen and at times when the children are home. She gets excited when we make love and she tells me how much I spoil her. I’ve learned not to over emphasize sex in our talk, while not minimizing what I/we deserve. When I first started here, I also posted about my situation and received similar excellent advice. I simply was not expressing how my wife had been diminishing her time and sexual energy with me. When I expressed my concerns, she characteristically stated that there hadn’t been enough “us” time in the equation. Now the balance is in a healthier state of affairs. Also, I’ve both alpha and beta qualities, with the alpha being predominant. However, when I don’t clearly and calmly express myself without being judgmental, is when trouble sets in. Your wife also should check to see if there is a hormone imbalance. Edited January 8, 2010 by HeyThere
mem11363 Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Most marriages have a libido spread - which is simply the difference in desired sexual frequency. Often the spread is big. The way this works is simple - there is either real and meaningful compromise from the low drive spouse (LD) to the high drive partner (HD) or there is not. Where there is it is almost always due to: 1. Love: This is when the LD steps it up simply because it makes them happy to please the HD. This is the best and most powerful motivator. Love based mercy sex doesn't really feel like mercy sex at all. 2. Fear: This is when the LD steps it up because they are afraid of the consequence of starving their HD partner. In order for this to work the HD needs to be at least a little scary. Some amount of fear - applied in a controlled way is an ok amplifier to love. If the love is low and the fear is high that creates a LOT of resentment on both sides. 3. Guilt: This is when the LD spouse has a strong emotional link to the HD spouse and recognizes the HD partner feels bad when deprived. This is way NOT as good as love - but better then fear. When you read some of the posts TDP suggests you will quickly see my point. I don't think you need to experience something to know what it is. I have not read your posts here so I don't know if you have problems in your marriage and what kind of problems they are, but I think that disparity in sexual drive is not a given in a relationship. I actually think that it is possible to have a smooth sexual relationship. I am in favour of working on your relationship but I don't believe that a lot of frustration or unmet needs are a recipe for happiness. There is nothing wrong with a relationship that is easy. People can communicate until they are blue in the face, if you are not compatible, if you are not a good match, it won't work. People change, people evolve. Sometimes in the same direction, sometimes it enriches the relationship. But sometimes in different directions, especially if they married when they were young.
AmIParanoid Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 O.K. now I will have a go at it: Been married for 20 years, 2 kids. We've had our up's and downs like any couple. Sex at times has been so, so. Then a long dry spell, then so, so another long dry spell. Then we go for eachother like we did when we first met. Then so, so, then a very long dry spell. The last dry spell was 7 months. Dude, that's not a dry spell, that's the Mojave Desert. You have a serious problem in your relationship with your wife. Going 7 months "without" with no obvious reason (e.g. some sort of physical illness/infirmity) is a symptom of a very serious problem in your marital relationship. The fact that you and she would just let it go without really doing anything about it is also kind of flabbergasting. Listen, I'm a moody guy, and if other issues (let's say work problems, insomnia, or similar distractions) get in the way, I might let a week or ten days go by from time to time. But frankly if a week or ten days goes by then I'm absolutely climbing the walls. I can't think of anything else. Also, If I ignore my wife sexually for that long she tends to get pissed off at me for neglecting her and lets me know it. 7 months is an order of magnitude beyond that, and you're indicating it wasn't only one time you had that kind of a dry spell. My wife told me the other nite that she felt that I need someone who is more sexual. I was hurt over this and this is not a good sign at all. Uh oh. This could mean (1) she wants to hear you actually say that you want HER, not someone else; or (2) is she having an affair, or contemplating one? It is absolutely NOT normal for a woman to suggest to her man that he should get someone else. I'm confused. I pay attention to my wife. I rub her back when she wants me to, I rub her feet. I think you're rubbing the wrong parts. I listen to her and not try to fix everything, I listen. I call and text her. I give her space when needed. I'm very lonely and hurt. Again, red flag, when a woman says she "needs space" that could be code language for having an affair or thinking about it. A little background. I was experienced when we met. She was a virgin. Really? In every way? Are you sure? I hold a very high regard for my wife, her opinion of me matters very much. I cannot imagine being with anyone else. I love her. She is a friend that I do not want to loose. Maybe you need to hold her in a little lower regard when in the bedroom, i.e., treat her like a slut. It sounds like you and your wife have been eating at McDonald's for 20 years, time for some filet mignon. Tonite we went to eat at a bar and grill. She saw a female aquantance there and her date. Long story short, this gal starts coming on to me in front of her date and my wife. It was totally obvious, her date was uncomfortable. I can tell my wife is uncomfortable, I was uncomfortable. When we leave, my wife does not say a word about it, no mention at all. I know she was jelious, I would have been totally pissed. Her not even recognizing this happened hurts me and makes me feel like she does not care. Sounds like you missed an opportunity. You should have taken her straight home to the bedroom and told her that got you so horny you couldn't wait to f*ck her, then do her hard. My wife is the only woman that I have truely loved. I'm tired of being alone. I can only masturbate so much. Maybe she is right, maybe I do need someone who is more sexually compatable. If this is true, then my heart is going to be more broken than it already is. I just do not know what to do. Ask her to masturbate you and you return the favor.
HeyThere Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 Jeff, My wife saved a fortune cookie with “Happiness is not pleasure. It is victory!” There is so much truth in that. If in work, one has many projects and doesn’t complete them, what sense of accomplishment is in that. In the bedroom our partners want to please the other, if that isn’t happening (lack of orgasm), then where is that “Happiness”. This makes me curious if there is adult ADD present in your relationship? That would explain a lot. If so read up or talk to a professional to counter this issue.
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