give your take as harsh as it may be...

[DestroyerOfWorlds]

HI BEG

 

I can explain this story from likely the exact position your xMM is in. I was in an A for 8 months. After it was discovered I stayed in the M ( which I never really wanted to leave ). I didn't throw my xAp under a bus though. I told my W I was in love with my xAP but she wanted to work on it anyway. We have went to MC and ICs and my IC have told me to leave the M because I will never be truly happy there. My W and I have some large incompatibilites but she is an amazing person and I do love her and would not want to divorce her and tear apart her life and family more than I would want to be responsible to doing that to any one of my best friends. I went NC for my marriage and did my best to make it work. I was tempted almost everyday to contact the xAP ( it had ended in July ) and was pretty certain I would not be able to resist the temptation by her birthday in Dec. Things did not end well in the A and she blamed me for ruining her life and said and did some very angry things. I felt terrible for how it ended and how badly she was hurt. The guilt sat on my shoulders like a boulder everyday and I think was actually detrimental to repairing my marriage ( you've got to fix yourself first right )

 

Her birthday passed and I struggled to let it go by then Christmas came and I actually wrote her an email on xmas eve but opted not to send it. I wanted to do the right thing by my W. New years passed and I was still feeling guilt about not trying to clear the air with her over the holidays because I hated thinking that she felt abandoned. Leaving her was the hardest thing I have ever done. I let it pass though and thought that it was over...there would be no reason to contact her after that.

 

Then a couple days after New years a good friend of hers dies and she is even interviewed on the news about it. I could not let that pass...knowing how much she was hurting now and knowing how much she still meant to me ( we were friends before the A )

 

Anyway, I contacted her and she was shocked to hear from me after all this time. She said it was the first time she smiled in days. She started dating someone else months ago and is deeply in love and I couldn't be happier for her. We have caught up, admitted we still have feelings for each other and will always be a temptation for each other...but at least we know that know. I hate that I have betrayed the trust of my W by contacting the xAP but ( like I always envisioned it would ) I think it will actually help the recovery of my M. The xAP and I were able to tie up loose ends and both gain some closure...realize that we have not truly lost a great friend and are both still very much important to each other. She wants her new man and I want to make things work with my W. I still love my xAP and I think I always will...the emotions with my W were never what they were with her. My xAP knows I still love her and I know she still loves me...but where my ICs have told me to leave my W, talking to the xAP has helped more than anything in making me feel confident about my M.

 

So if he tells you he still loves you but wants his wife and other than telling you how important you are to him and what a wonderful human being you are...take it as a compliment maybe...and if he isn't trying to escalate things with you....then maybe that's really all it is.

 

Just my opinion...most people would just think I'm a total a** anyway.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

i agree. for a while i was consumed by the emotional pain, the ending of our R and everything that went with it.

 

now, that the pain has subsided ive started re-examining the actions involved. ive learned that the feelings and actions are different.

 

to some it may be steps forward, but to me its been critical in starting to heal and move on. being so emotionally involved i wasnt able to see the actions for what they were.

 

it would be like people telling me over and over to see him for what he was. i couldnt, because i was so in love with him that i just kept arguing it wasnt really him. that he was a good person and wouldnt hurt me. that despite his actions there was some sort of explanation. there wasnt, i just couldnt see it being so attached to him.

 

so for some reason that has lifted. i think its ok to re-visit some of these things. i think i need to.

[Snowflower]

Why didn't you see? Because at heart you are a very spoiled little girl. It's time to grow up.

 

...And by the way...you're quite welcome. I hope you read and re-read my post, I do not charge for my advice and commentary.

 

 

 

MBEG has been working very hard to figure out why she did what she did. You're a new poster here so please read her backstory if you are that interested and give her a little slack...she is trying to fix things and figure out what to do next.

[AmIParanoid]

MBEG has been working very hard to figure out why she did what she did. You're a new poster here so please read her backstory if you are that interested and give her a little slack...she is trying to fix things and figure out what to do next.

 

 

First of all, she asked for "harsh."

 

Second of all, I read carefully through the entire thread before posting, and she is disregarding what everyone is saying to her, all she seems to be doing right now is seeking validation to continue her affair. She has willingly broken NC with the supposedly "X" MM so the affair continues. Indeed she stated that breaking NC gave her quite the ego boost. Meanwhile she apparently intends to keep her betrayed H "on a string" while she makes up her mind. This is abusive to her BH plain and simple and should neither be tolerated nor encouraged.

 

IMHO.

[dazzle22]

For a time, I think it is what we all do when we find ourselves in the consequences of a big relational mistake, to focus and obsess on the other person to understand it, but this is a coping mechanism of denial because we are not emotionally ready to examine our own role in keeping the ball rolling.

 

I was in a marriage for 25 yrs where my husband, highly educated, was lazy and chronically underemployed, always seeking validation from other women. For a long time I focused on these problems in "his" personality, and what I needed to do to move on, was look at my role in sustaining and tolerating such a condition for so long a time. A less co-dependant woman with healthier boundaries would have seen through him and kicked him out on his lazy cheating butt years before I did....

[Spark1111]

i agree. for a while i was consumed by the emotional pain, the ending of our R and everything that went with it.

 

now, that the pain has subsided ive started re-examining the actions involved. ive learned that the feelings and actions are different.

 

to some it may be steps forward, but to me its been critical in starting to heal and move on. being so emotionally involved i wasnt able to see the actions for what they were.

 

it would be like people telling me over and over to see him for what he was. i couldnt, because i was so in love with him that i just kept arguing it wasnt really him. that he was a good person and wouldnt hurt me. that despite his actions there was some sort of explanation. there wasnt, i just couldnt see it being so attached to him.

 

so for some reason that has lifted. i think its ok to re-visit some of these things. i think i need to.

 

I think you are making a very important distinction; examing the actions of the fAP as opposed to the feeling regarding the affair.

 

I also thing you are quick in the process to do this.

 

I disagree with the posters who say you are obsessed about him; I think you are introspecting and that's something we all need to do when we have been hurt so badly by another.

 

IMHO, it promotes growth to examine the actions versus the person. Almost taking a detached view of the relationship.

 

Yes, I agree. Love IS BLIND, and it is very hard to do this without some distance from the one you love. I suppose that is why NC is so stringently admonished.

 

It does help clarify, not only OW/OM, but BSs too.

[angie2443]

For a time, I think it is what we all do when we find ourselves in the consequences of a big relational mistake, to focus and obsess on the other person to understand it, but this is a coping mechanism of denial because we are not emotionally ready to examine our own role in keeping the ball rolling.

 

I was in a marriage for 25 yrs where my husband, highly educated, was lazy and chronically underemployed, always seeking validation from other women. For a long time I focused on these problems in "his" personality, and what I needed to do to move on, was look at my role in sustaining and tolerating such a condition for so long a time. A less co-dependant woman with healthier boundaries would have seen through him and kicked him out on his lazy cheating butt years before I did....

 

Well said!

 

If more people looked at their role in these troubled relationships, more people would be able to fix them or leave.

[carhill]

It appears she moved on to a new husband she describes as a bad boy and finds the relationship a lot healthier. Compatibility

[dazzle22]

Oh, ha ha! Tis true. Will probably go round the mountain again in some way til I die! Don't we all? Unless we achieve perfection in this life..

[PhoenixRise]

First of all, she asked for "harsh."

 

Second of all, I read carefully through the entire thread before posting, and she is disregarding what everyone is saying to her, all she seems to be doing right now is seeking validation to continue her affair. She has willingly broken NC with the supposedly "X" MM so the affair continues. Indeed she stated that breaking NC gave her quite the ego boost. Meanwhile she apparently intends to keep her betrayed H "on a string" while she makes up her mind. This is abusive to her BH plain and simple and should neither be tolerated nor encouraged.

 

IMHO.

 

 

You know what?

 

I don't always agree with MBEG's assessments or actions, but I do have to say that having read many of her post from the beginning I think she is truly trying to work through what she did and why.

 

I am a little disgusted by your name calling. There is no need to dehumanize her the way you have.

 

AND regarding her H, the last time she posted about her H she said they were separated. I don't know if her H knows about this latest conversation with XMM but MBEG has posted regarding other times XMM has tried to talk to her she informed her H about the attempted contact. What I am trying to tell you is that her H knows and is making his decisions to go or stay based on the facts.

[Trimmer]

I don't always agree with MBEG's assessments or actions, but I do have to say that having read many of her post from the beginning I think she is truly trying to work through what she did and why.

 

I am a little disgusted by your name calling. There is no need to dehumanize her the way you have.

I agree. And while I know there is sometimes hand-wringing about this kind of thing, one of the things I appreciate about the resiliency of the LS community is that quite often, in spite of one or another poster being a d**kweed, those who wish to continue a rational (if maybe still passionate) discussion can ignore the noise and continue on with a reasonable level of respect.

[PhoenixRise]

MBEG

 

I think you are getting some excellent comments here.

I think that no matter what happens in your marriage, taking the time to figure out why you did what you did and why you didn't see what was right in front of you is so important to your ability to have healthy relationships in the future.

 

If you and your H decide to reconcile this work that you are doing will help make your marriage better, but I see where you say you just want things back the way they used to be. This can never be.

 

I am not like those who believe that infidelity HAS to leave a permenant dark cloud over the marriage and the the spouses can never truly be happy with each other again. It takes HARD work to truly reconcile but it can be done. But if you just go back to the way things were before the affair....I think you will fail. I think you have to make it exponentially better (even if you now realize that things were actually pretty good before) to make it work.

 

From a BS perspective, I can tell you that MY expectations changed. My standards of what constituted a great marriage changed. The way things were before is no longer even close to good enough. This may be the case for your BS too.

 

Whether you reconcile or not I wish you the best of luck. Keep digging till you find the real you and figure out exactly what that woman wants for her life.

 

As for your XMM and his BS....digging deep and really looking at the mess you made and really taking responsibility for cleaning it up takes huge balls, your MM doesn't have them...yet. Maybe he will grow and be a better man in the future. Maybe his whole world and family will have to crash down around his ears for this to happen.

 

AND as for his wife, she is not stupid MBEG. I know you never actually called her that explicitly, but your posts about her are coming off like you think she doesn't have a clue. She is not trusting his word about ANYTHING right now.

 

AND I am not trying to be mean but, just as you yourself are realizing that he was not as in love with you as you thought, she sees that too.

 

AND most likely, she is not as focused on what he felt/feels for you. She is thinking about the truth/untruth of what he feels for her and what this all means for her future.

[Samantha0905]

MBEG has a need to feel superior to his wife. Like she can see through his garbage and his W can't... which make the W stupid. If she stopped playing the game... the wife would no longer seem so stupid.

 

Don't get me wrong. I think your a nice person MBEG, but your caught up. You need to free yourself. Before you lose the only thing in your life worth having.

 

I see this also. I'm not knocking MBEG -- I think it's a natural human reaction. MBEG can make assumptions (more than likely false) about his wife until she turns blue if it makes her feel better, but I guarantee it won't effect his wife and she wouldn't give a rip what MBEG thinks.

 

I don't like all the bashing of the XMM because both people involved in the affair made a huge mistake.

 

What I do see, MBEG, is that you need to let this go completely. You are hanging on as much as he is if you continue to communicate with him and continuously talk about him. If you are serious about wanting things to work out with your husband then put your focus 100% on your marriage and NEVER talk to XMM again. If you work with him -- which you should not -- NEVER discuss the affair or anything about your emotional/sexual relationship with him again.

 

This is not rocket science. You seem to be holding on every bit as much as he is holding on. I'm not saying this in judgment, I've not completely let go myself. You're kidding yourself, however, if you think you are completely working on your marriage and I don't think you should continuously bash your XMM.

 

I think you're obviously not sure you want to be without your XMM yet. Or, alternatively, you're just not 100% sure you want to be with your husband. It could be you need to get out of your marriage. I don't think you need to do that with XMM in mind, however.

 

Something is going on because you're not letting go yet .......

 

Perhaps it just takes time and your marriage will heal.

[Snowflower]

First of all, she asked for "harsh."

 

Second of all, I read carefully through the entire thread before posting, and she is disregarding what everyone is saying to her, all she seems to be doing right now is seeking validation to continue her affair. She has willingly broken NC with the supposedly "X" MM so the affair continues. Indeed she stated that breaking NC gave her quite the ego boost. Meanwhile she apparently intends to keep her betrayed H "on a string" while she makes up her mind. This is abusive to her BH plain and simple and should neither be tolerated nor encouraged.

 

IMHO.

 

MBEG has posted many threads over the last several months about the ramifications of her affair. Not just this one. There is more to the story than this thread alone.

 

I don't agree with everything MBEG has done but those of us who have followed her journey have seen her make huge strides in figuring out her actions.

 

FWIW, harsh is one thing, abusive is another. Saying that she is 'hitting the cr*ckpipe' or that she is just as much as an a** as the xMM is just mean.

 

No one is encouraging her to be abusive to her BH...almost everyone can sympathize with her H and even MBEG herself has said he is a wonderful man who didn't deserve what she did to him.

 

Again, please give her a break and offer something constructive.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

as always phoenix. thanks for the input.

 

MBEG

 

.

 

If you and your H decide to reconcile this work that you are doing will help make your marriage better, but I see where you say you just want things back the way they used to be. This can never be.

 

When I talk about the way it used to be what I mean by that is I want to have a relationship where I think only about him. Where there isnt a constant something else on my mind. Where the feelings, actions, thoughts just come natural. I want us to put in effort because we want to keep our marriage magical and happy...not effort to try to force away thoughts of another person or in his case to force away the hurt and memories of what I've done.

 

As for your XMM and his BS....digging deep and really looking at the mess you made and really taking responsibility for cleaning it up takes huge balls, your MM doesn't have them...yet. Maybe he will grow and be a better man in the future. Maybe his whole world and family will have to crash down around his ears for this to happen.

 

AND as for his wife, she is not stupid MBEG. I know you never actually called her that explicitly, but your posts about her are coming off like you think she doesn't have a clue. She is not trusting his word about ANYTHING right now.

 

Woah. Wait a minute here. I NEVER intended to come off sounding that way about her. I apologize for not making myself clear. I really just wonder. I'm curious. For instance, with my H there are constant questions and obvious doubts if I am in contact with xMM. I do everything in my power honest and tell him (yes he knows of the recent talk). But my H seems very realistic about this.

 

When my xMM told me she thinks we havent said a word since dday I really was surprised. And so, when I asked the question I truly wasnt putting her down. I really want to know if BS's believe this stuff.

 

In my A we were very upfront. We knew the other still loved the H/W. We knew neither wanted to leave their life / marriage. We knew the other was having sex with their spouse. We didnt paint a false "unhappy" home life for each other. I knew it wasnt true...I wouldnt have believed it.

 

SO...i guess it surprises me when people believe stuff like this. for instance, if he admitted there were some feelings, that he often thinks about it, that it was confusing or that maybe we say a word or two at work then that would be believable. but to tell her no talking no thinking about me no eye contact at work, that he never had feelings for me after many years. i just wonder if she really buys the stuff he says.

 

 

AND I am not trying to be mean but, just as you yourself are realizing that he was not as in love with you as you thought, she sees that too.

 

AND most likely, she is not as focused on what he felt/feels for you. She is thinking about the truth/untruth of what he feels for her and what this all means for her future.

[PhoenixRise]

as always phoenix. thanks for the input.

Quote:

 

 

When I talk about the way it used to be what I mean by that is I want to have a relationship where I think only about him. Where there isnt a constant something else on my mind. Where the feelings, actions, thoughts just come natural. I want us to put in effort because we want to keep our marriage magical and happy...not effort to try to force away thoughts of another person or in his case to force away the hurt and memories of what I've done.

 

 

Ok. I see what you are saying here. If reconciliation with your H is your end game then just know that what you have described above is possible, but it is a hard road to get there. It won't happen overnight for you or for your H. You both have to get to know each other all over again. It sounds like your H still loves you, but it is different loving someone who you truly believe would never hurt you and loving someone who you KNOW can and will hurt you. It is a huge leap of faith and it won't feel natural for either of you for a long time.

 

In other words, if you reconcile, try to focus on your progress not the happy ending (for awhile at least). If you focus too much on what you perceive as the happy ending you will get frustrated by the distance between where you are and where you want to be and you run the risk of not appreciating the progress you both ARE making.

 

 

Woah. Wait a minute here. I NEVER intended to come off sounding that way about her. I apologize for not making myself clear. I really just wonder. I'm curious. For instance, with my H there are constant questions and obvious doubts if I am in contact with xMM. I do everything in my power honest and tell him (yes he knows of the recent talk). But my H seems very realistic about this.

 

When my xMM told me she thinks we havent said a word since dday I really was surprised. And so, when I asked the question I truly wasnt putting her down. I really want to know if BS's believe this stuff.

 

 

SO...i guess it surprises me when people believe stuff like this. for instance, if he admitted there were some feelings, that he often thinks about it, that it was confusing or that maybe we say a word or two at work then that would be believable. but to tell her no talking no thinking about me no eye contact at work, that he never had feelings for me after many years. i just wonder if she really buys the stuff he says.

 

 

Ok.Thanks for clarifying. I think many WH make the mistake of underestimating their BW after dday (mind did for awhile). I think they get so accustomed to taking the blind trust of the wife for granted, they don't fully understand the extent to which things change for the wife after dday.

 

I think your XMM is underestimating his wife BIG TIME.