give your take as harsh as it may be...

[jennie-jennie]

She questions why his wife would believe after 3 years he could drop all his feelings for her, just like that. Well, how long has he been married to his wife? If he can drop all feelings for his wife after so long to cheat on her, why couldn't he drop all feelings for OW, if there were indeed feelings at all?

 

Because dropping your feelings for the BS is moving on, dropping your feelings for the OW and going back to the BS is moving backwards.

[seibert253]

so my xmm. after dday, threw me under the bus, confessed his love to his wife, started MC immediately.

 

well a few months later hes back. still in MC with her, still trying to do right by her, telling me hes in love with me and just cant shake it. has no intentions of being with me, wants her, but at the same time is trying to talk with me telling me the feelings never stopped.

 

so all of those BS out there what is your experience with situations like this? after DDAy did you believe that it really stopped? did you go to MC thinking he was NC and was transparent and doing everything to make it right?

 

it makes me lose TONS of respect for him. it seemed like a whole different situation before she knew. but now that she does, and hes still chasing me, does she really think hes ended it?

 

Browneyed.

You should have no respect for him. He's a snake. He's playing you, and he's playing his wife.

He wants his cake, and eat it to.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; you deserve better.

[2sure]

It only takes about 15 minutes of reading here to know that many affairs continue after D-Day. During MC. Its called false recovery in some circles.

Sure, giving up an affair or an affair partner is hard - it leaves an empty spot.

 

And this can happen whether the cheating was done with one partner OR many - as was the case with my husband.

 

I forgave him the first time and thought we had recovered. I was wrong, his cheating just became more hidden.

 

So anyway, I have had to forgive him again in a way because by showing me and telling me he loved me so completely while all the time he was continuing to undermine our marriage by feeding a bottomless pit of need...this clearly is HIS problem. He will never solve it, never have his need fulfilled. I cant help him out here. So, I can forgive him because he clearly doesnt have the ability to control himself or to be happy.

 

BUT: At the same time, it takes a very special kind of assh**e to convince a betrayed wife that you would rather die than lose her and at the same time stab her in the back.

 

That behavior doesnt have a lot to do with cheating, with being undecided, or weak. That behavior is a clear indication of a lack of human decency. Good luck with that.

[carhill]

i just wonder how or why she could trust him now. does she really think he just dropped all of that like it was nothing? afterall, years of contact and feelings could just stop without a second thought? it seems like a no brainer to me.

 

Ask your husband how he feels about this....

 

Invest in *your* recovery plan.

[Spark1111]

Because dropping your feelings for the BS is moving on, dropping your feelings for the OW and going back to the BS is moving backwards.

 

Why JJ, I am a bit surprised by this comment.

 

Is your 4 years more precious than their 20 years?

 

Is it because MM only lie to the BW, but not the OW?

 

Is it because OW believe MM only tell the truth to the OW and not the BW?

 

You have been reading and posting here for quite a while.

 

While some MM do not, and maybe your MM does not, I am sure you have concluded that the vast majority lie to everyone, whether intentionally or not, to fulfill their own selfish needs that only a wife and mistress together fulfill.

 

Lizzie, you too. How can you conclude this particular BW thinks it is definitely over between MBEG and her xMM?

 

I do not see any reason posted to conclude that at all.

 

The bottom line MBEG: You do not know at all what is going on in her head or his head at all. You do not know what is going on in that relationship or household.

 

You only know what you are being told by him. Good luck with that.

 

I hope you find peace in all of this.

[bittersweet memories]

Ha. Not settling for him one bit. In fact I'm having quite the time playing the game and telling him to F*** off. the harder he chases the faster I run. I'm talking to him, but not because I want him. There is no more R between us and I dont want one. I just cant believe he would sink so low as to come after me while saying all of these things to her.

 

I just find it crazy that she would trust him. He lied to her for over 3 years!!! Why trust him after a dday? I'm just trying to gain some insight into how BS think.

 

He is probably doing the same thing to her..talking all this crap about you to her. She buys it. I doubt it very much he is telling her he loves you but wants her. He is lieing to you as well. Just doesn't make any sense.

 

You find it crazy why she would trust him..i find it crazy why anyone would get involve with a married man to begin with and after all this crap you still put up with it and continue to communicate with him.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

Ok everyone. Thanks for the replies. I admit it - I am a terribly confused person. I just sometimes find myself wondering how affairs in general work. Thats why I posted the initial question.

 

Heres what I know. Every day that I spend away from my H makes me want him more. I'm starting to find myself focused on how things were before the affair. I want how we used to be. If we can get back there, I could live happily in love forever. If we cannot get back there then its the best for both of us to say goodbye. Meaning, if I cannot drop feelings for xmm and if the feelings dont return for my H the way they once were then I will own it, admit it and willingly release him to find what he deserves in life. he truly is an amazing person. i will never again find someone so perfect.

 

xMM. hes an a**. i struggle with the reality that ive probably lost darn near perfection for a manipulative facade. ive only recently broken NC (and it was once) to hear him out after repeated attempts of him trying to talk to me. I'll admit it...it was an ego boost. It has helped my healing to know that although i was thrown under the bus, he at least had enough respect for me to admit he once thought he cared for me. it was the feeling that he could let me go without a second thought that really tore my heart to shreds. after I got that "boost" it was easy to let go of him.

 

but what i dont know is a simple question like this. how the H*** he could be so committed to making his M work, going to MC and still trying to talk to me. does he sit there each session and look her in the eyes and continue to lie after hes come clean and started over??? its disgusting. And does she really believe him? sometimes i just want to shout "wake up woman" cant you see how hes playing all of us? Its just about HIM!!! thats the only person he really gives a flip about.

 

i wonder about these things because in my mind i'm still trying to piece together who this person really is. who i lost it all for. how i could have fallen for someone so self absorbed. why i didnt see who he really was, and how both of us (his w and I) coud be so under his spell that we make the choices we make.

 

call me obsessed with him if you will. maybe i am. its just such a confusing mess and a big even that has changed my life in so many ways and ended in a way that i never would have expected. i dont think its out of line to spend a good bit of energy trying to understand it all.

 

again, thanks for the input folks!

Edited January 8, 2010 by mybrowneyedgirl

[Trimmer]

Ok everyone. Thanks for the replies. I admit it - I am a terribly confused person. I just sometimes find myself wondering how affairs in general work.

In general, they don't.

 

call me obsessed with him if you will. maybe i am. its just such a confusing mess and a big even that has changed my life in so many ways and ended in a way that i never would have expected. i dont think its out of line to spend a good bit of energy trying to understand it all.

I agree that it's probably worth some energy, but I would propose that you are focusing your energy on figuring out the wrong person (him.) I think your energy is much better spent figuring out yourself.

 

Find your way forward toward the truth that you were not "under a spell" but that you made choices. Realize that, from the moment you started your relationship with him, he was always right there on display as someone who could betray a partner he had promised his fidelity to, and continued to deceive her to maintain the betrayal undiscovered. He's not that hard to figure out - he is disgusting, as you put it yourself, but he was that way from the start.

 

The "why" questions to ask are about you, and I'm not trying to stab you with judgments here, I'm just suggesting that you will completely waste emotional energy if you spend time asking "why he is the way he is" - energy that you deserve to spend on yourself asking "why I am the way I am, and how did I lead myself here?"

 

Hey, that's hard, I'm not claiming otherwise. Honesty with yourself is the first thing to go out the window in an affair situation. "It just happened." "There wasn't anything I could do." "I just got in too deep." "I was under a spell...." I know you want to own it - I get that - and it looks like you are ready to invest energy in growing and learning. But the most valuable growth and knowledge, and those that will have the best chance of leading you back to a whole, stable relationship, will be growth and knowledge about yourself. And this will take hard work and unrestrained honesty.

 

I wish you good luck - if you really want to, you can do it.

[bestplayer]

Ok everyone. Thanks for the replies. I admit it - I am a terribly confused person. I just sometimes find myself wondering how affairs in general work. Thats why I posted the initial question.

 

Heres what I know. Every day that I spend away from my H makes me want him more. I'm starting to find myself focused on how things were before the affair. I want how we used to be. If we can get back there, I could live happily in love forever. If we cannot get back there then its the best for both of us to say goodbye. Meaning, if I cannot drop feelings for xmm and if the feelings dont return for my H the way they once were then I will own it, admit it and willingly release him to find what he deserves in life. he truly is an amazing person. i will never again find someone so perfect.

 

xMM. hes an a**. i struggle with the reality that ive probably lost darn near perfection for a manipulative facade. ive only recently broken NC (and it was once) to hear him out after repeated attempts of him trying to talk to me. I'll admit it...it was an ego boost. It has helped my healing to know that although i was thrown under the bus, he at least had enough respect for me to admit he once thought he cared for me. it was the feeling that he could let me go without a second thought that really tore my heart to shreds. after I got that "boost" it was easy to let go of him.

 

but what i dont know is a simple question like this. how the H*** he could be so committed to making his M work, going to MC and still trying to talk to me. does he sit there each session and look her in the eyes and continue to lie after hes come clean and started over??? its disgusting. And does she really believe him? sometimes i just want to shout "wake up woman" cant you see how hes playing all of us? Its just about HIM!!! thats the only person he really gives a flip about.

 

i wonder about these things because in my mind i'm still trying to piece together who this person really is. who i lost it all for. how i could have fallen for someone so self absorbed. why i didnt see who he really was, and how both of us (his w and I) coud be so under his spell that we make the choices we make.

 

call me obsessed with him if you will. maybe i am. its just such a confusing mess and a big even that has changed my life in so many ways and ended in a way that i never would have expected. i dont think its out of line to spend a good bit of energy trying to understand it all.

 

again, thanks for the input folks!

 

stop spending all ur energies on analysing something that will only hurt ur

faimly .

do u love ur faimly ?

[dazzle22]

You were just as deceived as the wife... and the way you are pining over him and going on about him, makes me believe you'd take him back too, if he had chosen ...you...

[pureinheart]

Because dropping your feelings for the BS is moving on, dropping your feelings for the OW and going back to the BS is moving backwards.

 

Agreed, usually by the time there is a "BS" so many problems have resulted in the M, some that are too difficult to fix and then the feelings for the NW (New Woman) escalate it just seems redundant to go back to the unfixable....

[pureinheart]

You were just as deceived as the wife... and the way you are pining over him and going on about him, makes me believe you'd take him back too, if he had chosen ...you...

 

Maybe she would have....she loved him....

[pureinheart]

Ok everyone. Thanks for the replies. I admit it - I am a terribly confused person. I just sometimes find myself wondering how affairs in general work. Thats why I posted the initial question.

 

Heres what I know. Every day that I spend away from my H makes me want him more. I'm starting to find myself focused on how things were before the affair. I want how we used to be. If we can get back there, I could live happily in love forever. If we cannot get back there then its the best for both of us to say goodbye. Meaning, if I cannot drop feelings for xmm and if the feelings dont return for my H the way they once were then I will own it, admit it and willingly release him to find what he deserves in life. he truly is an amazing person. i will never again find someone so perfect.

 

xMM. hes an a**. i struggle with the reality that ive probably lost darn near perfection for a manipulative facade. ive only recently broken NC (and it was once) to hear him out after repeated attempts of him trying to talk to me. I'll admit it...it was an ego boost. It has helped my healing to know that although i was thrown under the bus, he at least had enough respect for me to admit he once thought he cared for me. it was the feeling that he could let me go without a second thought that really tore my heart to shreds. after I got that "boost" it was easy to let go of him.

 

but what i dont know is a simple question like this. how the H*** he could be so committed to making his M work, going to MC and still trying to talk to me. does he sit there each session and look her in the eyes and continue to lie after hes come clean and started over??? its disgusting. And does she really believe him? sometimes i just want to shout "wake up woman" cant you see how hes playing all of us? Its just about HIM!!! thats the only person he really gives a flip about.

 

i wonder about these things because in my mind i'm still trying to piece together who this person really is. who i lost it all for. how i could have fallen for someone so self absorbed. why i didnt see who he really was, and how both of us (his w and I) coud be so under his spell that we make the choices we make.

 

call me obsessed with him if you will. maybe i am. its just such a confusing mess and a big even that has changed my life in so many ways and ended in a way that i never would have expected. i dont think its out of line to spend a good bit of energy trying to understand it all.

 

again, thanks for the input folks!

 

Hey, all of this stuff is just really hard.....I know you are angry, but maybe he is not as bad as you think...maybe he is hurting and confused too....

[jennie-jennie]

MBEG, I wonder if my MM's thoughts can help you. We had one of Those discussions the other day.

 

My MM says he never asked for this. He never wanted to be in a position where he has to contemplate divorce. He spent much of his adult life building a marriage and a family, and now he is in love with another woman. Five years is a short time in the context of destroying what he spent a lifetime building up.

[silverplanets]

but what i dont know is a simple question like this. how the H*** he could be so committed to making his M work, going to MC and still trying to talk to me. does he sit there each session and look her in the eyes and continue to lie after hes come clean and started over??? its disgusting.

 

Yes he does - he's 100% believable .. (whether he's lieing out of guilt, shame or deliberately doesn't matter, he is an adult and by not speaking HIS truth he is denying others the right to access theirs)

 

At the VERY minimum if he looks in side and is confused then he should say that .. it doesn't take huge balls to say "I am truly sorry wifey for all the hurt you are feeling and I don't deny your basic human right to feel and express it. Right now though I am just in shock and can't process anything. I need to talk to someone and right now it has to be about me and not you. So I am going to get some counselling and in the meantime I will move out to leave you have the dignity of being able to process your own thoughts"

 

He should say the same to you as well (if that's what he feels) ..

 

Then YOU are both free and empowered to examine your own sh*t without being screwed around by his.

 

And does she really believe him?

I agree with a previous posted .. she doesn;t know what she believes, she really IS in shock. If he really cared for her he would arrange for her so see a counseller ALONE and be adult enough to live with whichever way that went. (I did for my xW).

 

sometimes i just want to shout "wake up woman" cant you see how hes playing all of us? Its just about HIM!!! thats the only person he really gives a flip about.

It's only about him whilst you give him that power. For you this isn;t about him or even about her ... they are adults and have to look inside to their own individual beings. For you this is about YOU baby ! pure and simple.

 

If you are wondering about him then get yourself to a consellor and work out what that means about you ???

 

i wonder about these things because in my mind i'm still trying to piece together who this person really is. who i lost it all for. how i could have fallen for someone so self absorbed. why i didnt see who he really was, and how both of us (his w and I) coud be so under his spell that we make the choices we make.

You've been hit by the bus and are trying to make sense of it. I think you've done really well but it sounds like you haven;t dealt with everthing yet. Don;t loose faith in yourself ... use this anger and confusion to go that extra stage to turning the mirror on yourself and you'll gain a life changing understanding which WILL set you free.

 

The answer to your questions is in you ... if you need a third party to help you with that then don;t back away from arranging to see someone .. it doesn't mean you're weak, it means you're strong !

 

 

call me obsessed with him if you will. maybe i am. its just such a confusing mess and a big even that has changed my life in so many ways and ended in a way that i never would have expected. i dont think its out of line to spend a good bit of energy trying to understand it all.

I agree you should spend as much energy on this as you need to , but the light of enquiry needs to shine in the right place ... right now beam that light hard on yourself and ask WHY you care about this?

 

The answer will set you free I assure you.

[jennie-jennie]

JJ - and his point is what exactly? That it's difficult and he has to grow some balls and make perhaps an adult descision (maybe the first one in his life??)

 

I've been a MM, done the A thing and also the other way around with a MW ... I think he's being honest .. he probably genuinly believes inside that he never asked for this .. and THAT'S a huge red flag DANGER, DANGER, DANGER signal for you.

 

His mind is protecting him from the reality of facing up to life and being an adult ... you don't give a child matches and imho you don't give a child in an adults body control over YOUR life.

 

Five years is 260 weeks, 1,825 days or 43,800 hours of YOUR time .. and imho he is disrespecting every one of these with this statement.

 

If you're looking for him to leave then the question is how long from where he is *NOW* to him being single and with you. According to his comment he is in denial about where he is, so he's way back from even properly considering a divorce.

 

Just my view ...

 

When I had an A I knew I wasn't happy in my marriage. As soon as it blew up I stuck to my guns (without the OW there at all) and took all the flak because I accepted responsibility and took adult responsibility for my needs.

 

If he's old enough to mess with two poeple's feelings and lives then he's old enough to be forced to stand up straight and deal with the now - rather than cloud it with the past.

 

I would be worried about you though .... pretty much you;re going to get trashed either way ... if he leaves her with a wavering mind then it's yo-yo for years until he grows those cajones and works out what he really wants ... if he stays without making an adult descision then he;s going to be back pestering you before you know it with more of this "woe is me" drivel ...

 

Leave him get on with it, take the hit now before the bus becomes a train :-)

 

 

 

Chris

:-)

 

Chris, if I had wanted your opinon on my EMR, I would have posted a thread of my own. I posted what my MM said because I found it interesting to hear the thoughts of a MM and thought that MBEG might too.

 

I know you are new here, so you probably don't know much about me. I will just tell you I am really happy to have this MM in my life and to be in a relationship with him. Yes, he has issues he has to deal with, but he is the man I love, and I don't need you insulting neither him nor me.

 

Every minute and every hour I spend in this relationship is worth it, otherwise I would have been out of it already. I am in this relationship for what it is today, not for what it might or might not become.

Edited January 8, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[mybrowneyedgirl]

Pure, Jennie, Silver and Trimmer - thank you for your insights (on this thread as well as others). Both sides have offered honest, thoughtful perspectives on these situations and given me TONS to think about.

 

I'd also like to comment that you all are a breath of fresh air on this board (some new, some old members) because, even with the blunt honesty you have all managed to do this in a way without casting blame, directly disrespecting anyone or yelling at them for not following your directions. I'm grateful for this. Its nice to hear thoughts and opinions and work through this rather than "quit your job, go NC, this is what you HAVE to do."

 

simple blanket statements like those never seem to help much. and the anger ive recieved from some for not following their orders doesnt do anyone any good.

 

so thank you all for giving some things to think about. i wish more posters acted this way.

[silverplanets]

Chris, if I had wanted your opinon on my EMR, I would have posted a thread of my own. I posted what my MM said because I found it interesting to hear the thoughts of a MM and thought that MBEG might too.

 

I know you are new here, so you probably don't know much about me. I will just tell you I am really happy to have this MM in my life and to be in a relationship with him. Yes, he has issues he has to deal with, but he is the man I love, and I don't need you insulting neither him nor me.

 

Every minute and every hour I spend in this relationship is worth it, otherwise I would have been out of it already. I am in this relationship for what it is today, not for what it might or might not become.

 

Hi JJ ... whoops sorry .. my fault completely !!!

 

I completely mis-read your post and thought you WERE complaining about his behaviour, and going back to look at your original one I can see that you weren't at all.

 

Sorry about that and if anyone wants to delete the comment then that's ok with me.

 

JJ - obv pls feel free to disregard anything I said and I wish you all the best

 

Chris

[Untouchable_Fire]

Because dropping your feelings for the BS is moving on, dropping your feelings for the OW and going back to the BS is moving backwards.

 

That isn't true.

 

When you go back to your wife, the marriage changes. That is moving forward as well. Do you realize the effect popping that fantasy bubble can have on a guy?

 

It's when you go back to the same thing... no change. That is moving backwards.

[carhill]

When you go back to your wife, the marriage changes.

Yeah, IME, the M is a completely new dynamic and has to survive and thrive within that dynamic. If the A was not serial and rather arose from unhealthy issues in the M, likely substantial change in both partners must occur for that new dynamic to be healthy. If both partners are not willing, or too much 'bend' has to occur, then the M may in fact be irreparably broken. The AP, if the M partners are focused, is largely irrelevant to this dynamic, IME.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

carhill - thats exactly where im coming from here.

 

ok. so you go back and commit to a M. but...you are still continuing your previous actions. maybe not the the same extent but still not completely gone. OR...you go back, cut the other person out of your life but still continue to think about the xAP, have feelings for them and struggle with their loss.

 

seems to me like this wouldnt be beneficial to reconciling a M.

 

and so then say youre the BS. do you believe that this person has truly ended it so easily? do you believe them if they say they dont have feelings? and do you spend each day working on a M without a clue that your spouse is still having some sort of contact with the AP?

 

seems like a never ending cycle. either the WS is a really good liar or the BS is blind to it.

[Woman In Blue]

It makes me lose TONS of respect for him.

That's great - too bad you hadn't lost it for him the second he crossed the line with you way back when things began.

 

Not a BS (former OW) but your story is not unique in any way, shape, or form. Cheating married men are quite possibly the most self-absorbed, self-entitled, self-interested jerks on the planet. They want it ALL - at everyone else's emotional expense, of course.

 

Hey, why NOT put your entire life on hold and spend 95% of your time hoping and waiting for that all-important text message or email while he's living his REAL life - that's kind of like "being there" with him, right? An email or text is almost like having a real relationship with him - right? You enjoy having to hang up in the middle of a conversation with him when he announces he's back home and has to "go inside now," right? And you enjoy never being able to bring him to Christmas Dinner or a friend's engagement party because he can't think of a good enough lie to get out of the house, right? And let's not forget how enjoyable it is knowing you can't call him at any time of the day or night should there be - heaven forbid - an emergency that you might need his assistance or moral support with, right? And then there's the sheer joy of watching him "hose off" your personal scent or makeup before going home to his wife because once he leaves your house, you become somewhat of a non-entity in his real life, right? Yeah, good times, good times.

 

...but what i dont know is a simple question like this. how the H*** he could be so committed to making his M work, going to MC and still trying to talk to me. does he sit there each session and look her in the eyes and continue to lie after hes come clean and started over???

LOL...of course he does. And he does it without so much as blinking an eye. He's probably become (like most of them) quite the quintessential liar. It's become a way of life for him and as natural to him as blowing his nose.

 

Glad to see that the rose-colored glasses have long been put away and you're seeing this loser for what he REALLY is - not what you'd dreamed him up to be in your mind at one time. Reality is a good thing, and spending some time trying to dissect why and how this all happened is a positive step in moving forward, I think. I know I did that at the end. I believe it will serve as a life lesson and keep you from ever making the same mistake again. It's worked for me for 10 years now and I know I'll never be an OW again. LOL.

[AmIParanoid]

OP, why are you wasting any more mental energy on this situation at all?

 

Surely you can do better than this?

Edited January 9, 2010 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[mybrowneyedgirl]

exactly. some say im obsessing or focusing on him. well, i am. because i need to figure this out. it makes me feel better. when i work though it the reality of all of this is clearer in my mind.

 

when sit back and go over things from the past i see it differently. i view Him differently. hes slowly dissolving into a much different person than i how i saw him during the affair.

 

hes coming down off of that pedestal, but only as i take the time to think about his actions and the choices hes made. when i look at it that way, instead of in the emotional way its easy to see that he wasnt as in love with me as i thought he was.

 

my choices and my actions during the affair were true, genuine. ive not given him one reason to question my previous behaviors. he on the other hand has made some choices that i cant seem to reason my way through. theres no excuses for his actions after dday. he cannot explain his way out of them.

 

so focusing or obsessing on him has allowed me to let go of the picture perfect view i used to have about him.

 

and now, to know that hes attempting to string both of us along again (and mind you im not participating) really just disgusts me. he hasnt changed after being caught. he just put his act on hold until she backed off a little and now hes chasing us both again.

[carhill]

and now, to know that hes attempting to string both of us along again (and mind you im not participating) really just disgusts me. he hasnt changed after being caught. he just put his act on hold until she backed off a little and now hes chasing us both again.

When you separate the actions from the emotions and can process the actions in a healthy way, resolution will result, the time factor dependent primarily on the pace at which your psyche processes the ending of relationships.