Subject for the Unattractive and Downtrodden

January 6, 2010

I think I'm an okay-looking guy. And I base this on two things: looks and smiles I get from attractive women I pass in public, and the fact that the six women I've slept with were attractive. However, lately I'm been questioning this basis.

Whilst I do get looks and smiles from attractive women in passing, it happens infrequently. More frequently, however, I get looks of disgust and contempt from attractive women. I then say to myself, "Don't sweat it, Marek. You've bedded some NICE looking girls! So you can't be all that ugly now, can you?" With that, the devil on my shoulder answers: "Marek, every dog has his day. You were just at the right place at the right time. Those good-looking girls probably had self-esteem issues..."

I started a thread here a week ago about the way people have been showing me open antagonism. Many replied with something akin to, "Oh, your probably projecting your inner-anger on to your outward demeanour. Naturally, people will be unreceptive to someone that looks miserable and hate-filled!" This was typical of the hippy-zen-Buddhist blather I got. I didn't initially dismiss it, however; I thought about it. But then I knew that I wasn't "projecting" any of my inner-anger on to my outward demeanour. On the contrary, I think I'm amicable and polite -- in fact, people have called me both of these things in the past. So I ponder, "Perhaps I'm getting treated with hostility because I'm actually rather unattractive..." And that makes sense.

I know people on this forum will come up with replies like, "Hey, I value a person's good-nature, intellect and personality over their looks!" And perhaps there are a few of you who, when you write such a line, actually believe it. However, most people don't. The world is superficial. And I think it's better to live a life of realism than one of false-inflated ego and delusion. (And yes, I know you shouldn't seek validation from others; I'm trying to overcome this. I'm simply seeking answers to my predicament.)

And here's a question for the unattractive: How do people treat YOU?

January 6, 2010

Go post a pic on hotornot.... let the world at large randomly decide for you.

January 6, 2010

Some womens' faces are just stuck like that...seriously...a lot of women walk around with a permanent scowl on their face.

I get dirty looks from women a lot, for absolutely no reason, and I'm a woman.

January 6, 2010

I've noticed that alot lately...But i don't think it has anything to do with the person's attractivness/unattractiveness. Alot of people out there (more than we'd all like to admit) simply think they are better than everyone. One of the reasons I still go to bars, is to observe the interactions between people, and I see it all the time. The main reason for hostility among strangers, is jealousy. ( I Personally think it's the only reason, but that's just my opinion) You seem like a pretty confident man, and that alone can grate on people that have less than stellar confidence.

I have heard through gossip at work, that many of my co-workers think I am "bossy and aggressive." You should have heard the roar of laughter from my friends when I spoke of that. Sure, I possess traits of both, but anyone that knows me knows that I am one of the friendliest people. I don't have a mean bone in my body, and can sometimes be a huge pushover...I'm a Leo...It's in my nature to be a leader, which has put people off in the past because they don't possess that sort of quality.

There's also the fact that what someone perceives as a hostile glance/look/expression, is really not. Have you ever been told you look mad when you really weren't? It's the same concept. Maybe you had a booger in your nose and your face was contorted in such a way that just made people look at you like "WTF is that guy's problem?" Or maybe you just had an itch you couldn't scratch, and looked a little pissed.

Bottom line...if people are going to act like that, then they are beneath you...or it's just all a communication failure. I wouldn't worry too much about it, cos most unsupported hostility stems from jealousy of some sort.

January 6, 2010

Go post a pic on hotornot.... let the world at large randomly decide for you.

Firstly, I would not NEVER post a photo of my face on the Internet.

Secondly, Hot or Not is bogus. All its ratings seem way over-inflated.

Thirdly, I'm not seeking validation. I'm seeking whether bad-looks can provoke or encourage such abysmal treatment I have been receiving.

January 6, 2010

Some womens' faces are just stuck like that...seriously...a lot of women walk around with a permanent scowl on their face.

I get dirty looks from women a lot, for absolutely no reason, and I'm a woman.

AMEN! Women are biotches, man.

January 6, 2010

Thirdly, I'm not seeking validation. I'm seeking whether bad-looks can provoke or encourage such abysmal treatment I have been receiving.

I would like to believe in the humanity of others, but some people are just that freaking shallow, and should be prevented from breeding.

January 6, 2010

I'm in your same exact boat OP.

Some days I'll be looking rather handsome but will be in a crappy mood for whatever reason, yet women still treat me very nice and are always trying to make conversation with me, at work.

Other days I'll look rather dull or even ugly (for whatever reason, like a bad haircut or dark circles under my eyes from sinusitis) and be in a great mood, and yet women will treat me like crap, they ignore me, look at me annoyed, or even downright be bitches to me.

Sometimes, it's the same exact women doing it too! It's almost tough to believe people are that shallow.

I won't even bring up the massive differences in female attention and behavior from when I was more muscular to my skinny self today .

January 6, 2010

Firstly, I would not NEVER post a photo of my face on the Internet.

Secondly, Hot or Not is bogus. All its ratings seem way over-inflated.

Thirdly, I'm not seeking validation. I'm seeking whether bad-looks can provoke or encourage such abysmal treatment I have been receiving.

Firstly a double negative means you would put your face on the internet.

Secondly, how do you know its bogus? or are you simply regurgitating rumor and heresy?

Thirdly.. yes you are.. you came onto this forum seeking validation for why you seem to get the looks you do and not the ones you want. You want the "unattractive" people to validate your self esteem by sharing with you their pathetics so you can feel better thinking "Hey maybe I'm not such a butterface"

You are seeking validation, abeit, indirectly for your looks.. you want to know why you are getting certian looks and are seeking to verify/validate if its other self professed "unattractive" people or just you.

January 6, 2010

Firstly a double negative means you would put your face on the internet.

Secondly, how do you know its bogus? or are you simply regurgitating rumor and heresy?

Thirdly.. yes you are.. you came onto this forum seeking validation for why you seem to get the looks you do and not the ones you want. You want the "unattractive" people to validate your self esteem by sharing with you their pathetics so you can feel better thinking "Hey maybe I'm not such a butterface"
You are seeking validation, abeit, indirectly for your looks.. you want to know why you are getting certian looks and are seeking to verify/validate if its other self professed "unattractive" people or just you.

He is probably trying to find out if it's all in his head (and actually his attitude/demeanor that gets him those looks) or actually true.

But I will say its not, it is looks. I say it from personal experience, sometimes I'll be in a great mood with my confidence skyhigh, but if my appearance is not 100% for whatever reason women will still ignore me or treat me like crap. Then other times I'll be in a crappy mood with a handsome appearance and women at work will desperately try to talk to me as I ignore them because of other things I have in my mind.

It really is about how you look.

January 6, 2010

I think I'm an okay-looking guy. And I base this on two things: looks and smiles I get from attractive women I pass in public, and the fact that the six women I've slept with were attractive. However, lately I'm been questioning this basis.

Whilst I do get looks and smiles from attractive women in passing, it happens infrequently. More frequently, however, I get looks of disgust and contempt from attractive women. I then say to myself, "Don't sweat it, Marek. You've bedded some NICE looking girls! So you can't be all that ugly now, can you?" With that, the devil on my shoulder answers: "Marek, every dog has his day. You were just at the right place at the right time. Those good-looking girls probably had self-esteem issues..."

I started a thread here a week ago about the way people have been showing me open antagonism. Many replied with something akin to, "Oh, your probably projecting your inner-anger on to your outward demeanour. Naturally, people will be unreceptive to someone that looks miserable and hate-filled!" This was typical of the hippy-zen-Buddhist blather I got. I didn't initially dismiss it, however; I thought about it. But then I knew that I wasn't "projecting" any of my inner-anger on to my outward demeanour. On the contrary, I think I'm amicable and polite -- in fact, people have called me both of these things in the past. So I ponder, "Perhaps I'm getting treated with hostility because I'm actually rather unattractive..." And that makes sense.

I know people on this forum will come up with replies like, "Hey, I value a person's good-nature, intellect and personality over their looks!" And perhaps there are a few of you who, when you write such a line, actually believe it. However, most people don't. The world is superficial. And I think it's better to live a life of realism than one of false-inflated ego and delusion. (And yes, I know you shouldn't seek validation from others; I'm trying to overcome this. I'm simply seeking answers to my predicament.)

And here's a question for the unattractive: How do people treat YOU?

I think your thread encountered so much clashing because your experiences seem relatively unusual to most people. Most people are, by definition, around average in looks. Most people on these forums are likely also average-looking. And yet the types of experiences you claim to have are not experiences most people will say are commonplace. It's not "zen hippy" mentality, but just empirical explanation. The only logical, sensible explanation that would make sense to most people based on their experiences is that you're either projecting something or you're physically unusual in some way that you aren't revealing.

1. I think judging your looks by the women you've slept with is a poor metric, to begin with.

2. I also suspect that perhaps a lot of this is in your head -- you might be misinterpreting people's facial gestures as antagonism/disgust when it's not any such thing.

3. Have you tried posting your picture on a website? Maybe post it here?

January 6, 2010

Some womens' faces are just stuck like that...seriously...a lot of women walk around with a permanent scowl on their face.

I get dirty looks from women a lot, for absolutely no reason, and I'm a woman.

I second this.

January 6, 2010

when it comes down to it, attractiveness is based on attitude. If I get the impression that you're an open kind of person, who is easy to be around with, who laughs, then oh yeah, you're gonna catch my interest and a second or third look despite the fact that you might not be good looking in a classic sense.

from the tone of your initial post, the negative vibes from your post because you're wallowing in this "oh, they're not chasing after me because I'm ugly" crap makes me think, "ugh, this so NOT someone I'd consider attractive" because that kind negativity makes even the hottest guy or gal undesirable.

the opposite is also true: The most attractive chick at the party is the one who makes you feel like you're in on the fun because she's got a positive outlook; guys avoid the girls who project negative attitude.

January 6, 2010

Get plastic surgery or do something to put you over the edge.

January 6, 2010

Well, as far as quality of what is said on an internet forum, people tend to repeat tired cliches, it's just something you have to get used to. There was a time in the 90s when I was working 16 hour days and was overweight (230, 5'11"). I found that women just didn't seem to look at me at all, or just looked through me, as opposed to having a contemptuous look.

I have noticed, that when I am more attractive, in better shape, well-dressed, how women look at me has less to do with my level of attractiveness, and more to do with my perceived social value. I find women look at me more contemptuously when I'm out alone (before speaking to me), and more pleasantly when I am with others, and if I am with one or more attractive women, extremely flirtatiously or longingly even. Have watched the whole gamut of this unfold many times, as I like to be prompt, and am often first of a group to get somewhere. So IMO, there is much more going on in how women look at me than whether they find me attractive or not.

January 6, 2010

Get plastic surgery or do something to put you over the edge.

Plastic surgery is hardly the answer. Aside from the non-surgical things you can do to better yourself, a person should be happy with who they are.

January 6, 2010

This analysis is spot on - I have definitely noticed the same things.

Well, as far as quality of what is said on an internet forum, people tend to repeat tired cliches, it's just something you have to get used to. There was a time in the 90s when I was working 16 hour days and was overweight (230, 5'11"). I found that women just didn't seem to look at me at all, or just looked through me, as opposed to having a contemptuous look.

I have noticed, that when I am more attractive, in better shape, well-dressed, how women look at me has less to do with my level of attractiveness, and more to do with my perceived social value. I find women look at me more contemptuously when I'm out alone (before speaking to me), and more pleasantly when I am with others, and if I am with one or more attractive women, extremely flirtatiously or longingly even. Have watched the whole gamut of this unfold many times, as I like to be prompt, and am often first of a group to get somewhere. So IMO, there is much more going on in how women look at me than whether they find me attractive or not.

January 6, 2010

Well, as far as quality of what is said on an internet forum, people tend to repeat tired cliches, it's just something you have to get used to. There was a time in the 90s when I was working 16 hour days and was overweight (230, 5'11"). I found that women just didn't seem to look at me at all, or just looked through me, as opposed to having a contemptuous look.

I have noticed, that when I am more attractive, in better shape, well-dressed, how women look at me has less to do with my level of attractiveness, and more to do with my perceived social value. I find women look at me more contemptuously when I'm out alone (before speaking to me), and more pleasantly when I am with others, and if I am with one or more attractive women, extremely flirtatiously or longingly even. Have watched the whole gamut of this unfold many times, as I like to be prompt, and am often first of a group to get somewhere. So IMO, there is much more going on in how women look at me than whether they find me attractive or not.

I always like your take on the issue Meerkat, very good post.

However, I find that women have no problem showing their contempt towards things that aren't pretty or cute to look at. Just look at how women cry when they see a baby seal get clubbed, yet have no problem wearing a fur coat or fur lined "ugg boats" (fur products have the most barbaric towards animals process imaginable).

January 7, 2010

Plastic surgery is hardly the answer. Aside from the non-surgical things you can do to better yourself, a person should be happy with who they are.

plastic surgery can only do so much to an unattractive face.

January 7, 2010

Just look at how women cry when they see a baby seal get clubbed, yet have no problem wearing a fur coat or fur lined "ugg boats" (fur products have the most barbaric towards animals process imaginable).

Try dating an "animal rights" advocate who eats caviar, pate de foie gras, and veal, yet cries whenever she sees those TV seals getting eaten by polar bears. I have no doubt that if given a chance and a gun, she would have killed the polar bears off to extinction ... well until -their- Discovery channel special rolls around, and then, when the polar bears are the victim of man's global warming, she wanted to march on Con-Ed. Could never understand why I don't get emotional about such things. Then in the restaurant, "why don't you try some pate? it's delicious! you are just not very cultured are you?"

I swear I need to write all my various GF "experiences" into a movie script. Oh, BTW, said woman was university educated and made well into six figures.

January 7, 2010

I think I'm an okay-looking guy. And I base this on two things: looks and smiles I get from attractive women I pass in public, and the fact that the six women I've slept with were attractive. However, lately I'm been questioning this basis.

Whilst I do get looks and smiles from attractive women in passing, it happens infrequently. More frequently, however, I get looks of disgust and contempt from attractive women. I then say to myself, "Don't sweat it, Marek. You've bedded some NICE looking girls! So you can't be all that ugly now, can you?" With that, the devil on my shoulder answers: "Marek, every dog has his day. You were just at the right place at the right time. Those good-looking girls probably had self-esteem issues..."

I started a thread here a week ago about the way people have been showing me open antagonism. Many replied with something akin to, "Oh, your probably projecting your inner-anger on to your outward demeanour. Naturally, people will be unreceptive to someone that looks miserable and hate-filled!" This was typical of the hippy-zen-Buddhist blather I got. I didn't initially dismiss it, however; I thought about it. But then I knew that I wasn't "projecting" any of my inner-anger on to my outward demeanour. On the contrary, I think I'm amicable and polite -- in fact, people have called me both of these things in the past. So I ponder, "Perhaps I'm getting treated with hostility because I'm actually rather unattractive..." And that makes sense.

I know people on this forum will come up with replies like, "Hey, I value a person's good-nature, intellect and personality over their looks!" And perhaps there are a few of you who, when you write such a line, actually believe it. However, most people don't. The world is superficial. And I think it's better to live a life of realism than one of false-inflated ego and delusion. (And yes, I know you shouldn't seek validation from others; I'm trying to overcome this. I'm simply seeking answers to my predicament.)

And here's a question for the unattractive: How do people treat YOU?

its true unattractive people are treated more negatively but, it is not done overtly in familiar situations, even in less familiar situations (bus stop etc).

Usually people will laugh, snide and gawk at unattractive people secretly. Your also very likely to get a sexual harassment case in work from the girl you asked out if your unattractive.

The part where you mentioned that at sometime women stare and don't probably indicates that you very much fall into the population like all of us>> average-high average looking (5-8).

January 7, 2010

I find women look at me more contemptuously when I'm out alone (before speaking to me), and more pleasantly when I am with others...

That's interesting. And now that you've mentioned it, it made me think back on times when I was with others, and I have to say that, like you, I RARELY got contempuous looks.

If I'm seen frequenting certain establishments ALONE, then perhaps I'm giving off weird-and-sad loner-vibes. Hmmm... women seem to place much value on "social proof".

Edited January 7, 2010 by Marek

January 7, 2010

That's interesting. And now that you've mentioned it, it made me think back on times when I was with others, and I have to say that, like you, I RARELY got contempuous looks.

If I'm seen frequenting certain establishments ALONE, then perhaps I'm giving off weird-and-sad loner-vibes. Hmmm... women seem to place much value on "social proof".

IS social proof important to women becasue its a self defense mechanism to where if a guys a loner he could be creepy and dangerous to a women or because they want the guy their with to be accepeted and wanted by other people/women?

January 7, 2010

Sometimes when I see a really handsome guy, I get nervous and if he looks at me, I scowl and walk away. It isn't that he's mean or ugly, he has just caught me off guard and my insecurities pop up. My insides get bubbly and I'm scared of rejection, so I just sabotage it.

I wonder if any of those "grr" faced girls do what I sometimes do.

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