Vertex Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 I can fully admit that when I am in a relationship (I've had two so far), I am a great boyfriend. But dating itself I have *never* done. I've almost always met women "naturally" and have had attraction form as a result of our interactions. But I've been trying EHarmony and I've just gotten to this final "open communication" stage, and I admit, I'm totally at a loss for words. How do most of you take things forward? Just immediately move to email/phone? How is one supposed to remove the pressure of meeting when the sole purpose of meeting is derived from a "dating" site? That is to say, partially unnatural? I imply that a "natural" meeting has no underlying element of expectation or "I am judging/being judged for dateworthiness." So far this girl I've been matched with online seems like a pretty good fit -- lots of matching elements, etc etc. I'd ideally like not to screw up right off the bat as a result of my nerves and ignorance. Do you guys keep talking through EHarmony or move elsewhere ASAP? I'm on that Free Communication thing right now, so I don't think I have *too* much time, here. I've been able to tackle most things in life but I feel like a drowning toddler right now -- I fully admit that I have no experience or skill here when it comes to full-on "dating." I could *really* use some advice on this. Anecdotes, tidbits of wisdom -- anything goes! Thanks so much, guys.
InspiredbyYou Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 It's very personal Vertex, take a deep breath it's not as scary as it sounds. I never tried eharmony but if you are already matched on so much compatibility then I don't see the point of talking online for so long!?! I would move to a phone chat soonish to see if you like how she sounds and after you establish you are both interested in pursuing things ask her out to meet for a casual first meeting. As I always saw it, online the first time is not a date, it's a meeting. It is the proverbial "social gathering" you potentially met at, if after this first meeting you hit it off then take it to an official first date. A drink is perfect for a first meet, if it goes well you can have several drinks and enjoy a night out, if there is no chemistry at all, one drink is over in minutes if you want it to be. You will go through a lot of people before you meet the right match, accept that and you will be a lot happier for the experience. Dating becomes easier the more you do it.
Author Vertex Posted January 4, 2010 Author Posted January 4, 2010 But I mean, even the little things... I am totally clueless. Do you hug someone you're meeting for a first date when you meet? Handshake? What on earth do you guys do/say to get things rolling? It's this first-time-meeting transition stuff that murders me.
threebyfate Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Vertex, you work in a corporate conglomerate where there must be thousands of young women working in admin and operations. Go for a walk one day and do some scouting. Go to the company functions, join the baseball or other teams. Volunteer to help with charitable events. Get your profile out there. If nothing else, it will help you network.
meerkat stew Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 if you are already matched on so much compatibility then I don't see the point of talking online for so long!?! I would move to a phone chat soonish to see if you like how she sounds and after you establish you are both interested in pursuing things ask her out to meet for a casual first meeting. I agree with "Sophia?" Get offline and face-to-face as quickly as possible. View any online interactions as just formalities and noise until you do so. I have a bias against Eharmony because people can put anything they want down on a compatibility matrix, usually what they think sounds good The best use of dating sites is just as a bare, minimal prelim to regular ole dating.
Art_Critic Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Introduce yourself and offer something like your email or your phone number with the idea that if she likes you can continue on with the open communication till she feels more comfortable but it would be nice to hear her voice.. Throw something witty about your current life out there too.. maybe a quick one liner about your job or the holidays.. It really is all subjective but at this point you still want to catch her attention.. and move it to a date as quickly as you can without letting it drag on.. nothing worse than communicating with someone for weeks on end and then they drop off the face of the earth or you meet them and have zero connection..
Author Vertex Posted January 4, 2010 Author Posted January 4, 2010 Vertex, you work in a corporate conglomerate where there must be thousands of young women working in admin and operations. Go for a walk one day and do some scouting. Go to the company functions, join the baseball or other teams. Volunteer to help with charitable events. Get your profile out there. If nothing else, it will help you network. Oh, definitely -- but I'm trying to explore as many facets as I can. I think at some point though I definitely need to learn how to "date" in a non-natural way. I am severely lacking in the realms of first-introductions and transitions.
e.clipse Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 aw, Vertex, you're so cute. i really have no advice for you, as i am equally as bad at dating as you claim to be, if not worse. but let's see...if i were meeting you, how would i want the following to go... Do you hug someone you're meeting for a first date when you meet? Handshake? What on earth do you guys do/say to get things rolling? It's this first-time-meeting transition stuff that murders me. upon meeting, i'd prefer a handshake over a hug. i don't really like handshakes in general, but it's cordial and not weird. after that introduction, i'd like the guy to give me a compliment, like, for example, "lovely shirt." it's not that i'm vain or anything, but it helps put me at ease because at least i know that a.) they like my shirt or b.) they are trying to make me comfortable. if no compliment is made whatsoever, i spend the night thinking why i picked the wrong outfit/why i'm so rotund/why can't i look like her, etc. thereafter, i'd like to proceed to go wherever we are going/do whatever we were going to do and just talk about nothing...then, after i'm more comfortable, talk about important stuff. something like that. and this is coming from a girl who gives guys a hard time, not purposely, but because i'm so quiet/shy that i make them nervous/be at a loss for what to say or do. SO, if the girl in question is more lively than i (to which i will bet anything!), then it should be much simpler than this. aww, good luck, mate! disclaimer: any and all dating advice from me should be taken with a can of salt.
Sam Spade Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Here's uncle Sam's crash-course in internet dating (assuming that you've got the basics of a decent profile - I surely hope it's not the very first one you posted here); 1) eHarmony suxx - it is more forced and unnatural than most dating sites; all these "steps" before "open" commuynication and utter BS and designed for people who can't engage in a casual conversation. Hence, the greater likelihood that you'll meet awkward people there - since peeps with poor social skills will be more self-select in this site; the point is that nothing before actual contact really counts for anything 2) But anyhow. The single most important thing to remember online dating is that although the contact is explicitly initiated with dating in mind, women do NOT consider every match/contact as a possible date. MOre specifically, the progression of the contact is not a linear progression/escalation, but rather a series of plateaus, a step-wise funciton: - 1st plateau is getting her attention - i.e. establishing any contact - 2nd plateau is exchanging a couple of emails - casual banter; - the 3rd plateau is getting her phone number and asking her out on a date etc. you can extend this logic to all the steps in a progression of a relationship. Politely thank for date #1 by email, and within a week or so suggest a 2nd date (don't make any plans for 2nd date during the 1st date; also, there are differing schools of thought on that, but my personal policy is no kissing on 1st date) the 2nd plateau is usually the trickiest one since it is easy to ask her out too soon or spend too much time there (and let things die out). In my experience up to 2-3 weeks of casual, not too frequent, email contact is ideal
Crazy Magnet Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 You can always give her your personal email address and phone number if you're on the free communication weekend. I think it ends today? Right? That way she can email some more if she wants to, or call you. Alternatively you can IM chat with her. I learned to meet up for something casual like drinks or coffee early on. I would push for sometime within the first week of communication. Those guys who drug things out ultimately never met me as I found someone on EH I wanted to date exclusively. It only took me about 6 weeks total of online dating to find what I was looking for. I agree with throwing out a witty comment to get her to laugh. On the "meeting" drink "date" I've gotten everything from a hand shake, to a sideways hug, to a real hug. No kisses, but I didn't give off kiss me vibes on the first meeting. Actually hand shake guy is the one I'm now dating! lol If the girl is into you, she's not going to discard you completely for doing something wacky, like shaking my hand good bye! lol As a female, I was upfront about this being my first online dating experience, and I would ask what the guy was comfortable with. Not sure that would work for a man, but it might. Good luck though!
threebyfate Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Oh, definitely -- but I'm trying to explore as many facets as I can. I think at some point though I definitely need to learn how to "date" in a non-natural way. I am severely lacking in the realms of first-introductions and transitions.The more social interactions you have, the easier it is to approach strangers AND also, the easier it is to connect and ask someone out. That's why I suggest you get more involved in your workplace. It will give you the opportunity to "scope" out the women and possibly, make a natural connection. As previously posted on LS, many times, catalogue shopping aka online dating is such a cold venue and is the perfect environment for gamers. I wouldn't try to "learn" how to date by using it or you're going to become just another gamer which isn't anything to be proud of, IMO.
InspiredbyYou Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 But I mean, even the little things... I am totally clueless. Do you hug someone you're meeting for a first date when you meet? Handshake? What on earth do you guys do/say to get things rolling? It's this first-time-meeting transition stuff that murders me. Stop it you are freaking yourself out! These are all things you need to play by ear, there is no set rule. We have all struggled with that, and all I can tell you is go with your instinct if she is all smiles and very open to see you you might go in for the hug, depending on how much rapport you had before hand. Otherwise you just say hello and laugh if off with some joke about the situation. At the end of the day it's awkward for everyone, she will feel it too. I agree with "Sophia?" Get offline and face-to-face as quickly as possible. View any online interactions as just formalities and noise until you do so. Yeah Sophia. Or "my mom at 27" my mum looked like her in that pic when she was in her late 20's.
Crazy Magnet Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 1) eHarmony suxx - it is more forced and unnatural than most dating sites; all these "steps" before "open" commuynication and utter BS and designed for people who can't engage in a casual conversation. Hence, the greater likelihood that you'll meet awkward people there - since peeps with poor social skills will be more self-select in this site; the point is that nothing before actual contact really counts for anything I will say the questions are CRAP. Everybody just clicks the answers. I will say though that my guy got my attention on the last set of open questions. It was obvious to me he was a writer. I definitely don't think I have poor social skills, but I sort of get what you mean. I always had excellent dates from EH, but the guys were more quiet/reserved when compared to guys I met on OKC or POF.
Sam Spade Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Once you've gotten past date #1 it is also easy to spend too much time before the next "plateau". In general, as a rule of thumb if you haven't at least (heavily) made out by date 6-7, it is probably ain't happening. dates 1&2 could be a standard dinner. For date #3 (or 2, depengin on context) think of something fun/active. By date # 4-5 you should make plans to invite her to your place, cook dinner and watch a movie. If you get to this point, it's in the bag. This gives you an excuse to sit close to each other in private etc... More generally, if a woman is comfortable enough to come alone to your place, she's comfortable enough to sleep with you.... From then on, all bets are off. Don't yet assume she's your gf, but be extra sweet to her, and then play it by ear. Don't do too much other than show that you don't consider the whole thing to be casual (if this is indeed the case, of course). In any case, assuming at least some level of mutual attraction, the early stages are pretty formulaic, and you'll pick them up within a few months no problem. But don't let the "formula" get in the way if something else feels more natural...
Crazy Magnet Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 One more thing, if you crash and burn, it's ok!!! There's always a next time! Live and learn!
Author Vertex Posted January 4, 2010 Author Posted January 4, 2010 (edited) On the "meeting" drink "date" I've gotten everything from a hand shake, to a sideways hug, to a real hug. No kisses, but I didn't give off kiss me vibes on the first meeting. Actually hand shake guy is the one I'm now dating! lol If the girl is into you, she's not going to discard you completely for doing something wacky, like shaking my hand good bye! lol ! At the very least, I am not so inexperienced as to offer a goodnight high-five or something. >.> I'll stick with the handshake for now. Generally speaking though, meeting new people has always been hard for me. I'd love to just jump into talking about more interesting/deeper topics but I think most people aren't really up for that, so I have to stick to small talk. Thing is, I'm fairly bad at it. I fall into that category Sam Spade suggested -- the ones who lack certain social skills. I've got social skills for people I'm comfortable around. But every time I meet someone new, it's like a train wreck (I'm very shy and awkward around new people, but very extroverted and personable to people I know). The ones I keep in contact with long enough after said wreck usually become much easier to talk to, and all is well. I'd like to not wreck anymore, though. Edited January 4, 2010 by Vertex
meerkat stew Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Consider going to the active dates right off the bat, and saving the dinners, unless it's something grabbed after activity. One really good one that has worked for me is a walk through a cool neighborhood, going in and out of shops and galleries, and then heading to a nice restaurant, sitting at the bar and sharing a couple of appetizers and wine. Has the advantages of sharing a meal and wine sitting close to each other without the formalities and expense of a full-blown sitdown dinner. Can usually do this at even expensive restaurants for under $40, sometimes well under. Am considering a large, local Farmer's Market for first dates on the next internet dating go-round.
shadowplay Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 I can fully admit that when I am in a relationship (I've had two so far), I am a great boyfriend. But dating itself I have *never* done. I've almost always met women "naturally" and have had attraction form as a result of our interactions. But I've been trying EHarmony and I've just gotten to this final "open communication" stage, and I admit, I'm totally at a loss for words. How do most of you take things forward? Just immediately move to email/phone? How is one supposed to remove the pressure of meeting when the sole purpose of meeting is derived from a "dating" site? That is to say, partially unnatural? I imply that a "natural" meeting has no underlying element of expectation or "I am judging/being judged for dateworthiness." So far this girl I've been matched with online seems like a pretty good fit -- lots of matching elements, etc etc. I'd ideally like not to screw up right off the bat as a result of my nerves and ignorance. Do you guys keep talking through EHarmony or move elsewhere ASAP? I'm on that Free Communication thing right now, so I don't think I have *too* much time, here. I've been able to tackle most things in life but I feel like a drowning toddler right now -- I fully admit that I have no experience or skill here when it comes to full-on "dating." I could *really* use some advice on this. Anecdotes, tidbits of wisdom -- anything goes! Thanks so much, guys. But most importantly -- is she Asian???
alphamale Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 I could *really* use some advice on this. Anecdotes, tidbits of wisdom -- anything goes! Thanks so much, guys. since youre "drowning" i suggest you procure a floatation device. other than that i'm at a loss to assist you. there is a good book i can recommend but you'll have to PM me.
Sam Spade Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Consider going to the active dates right off the bat, and saving the dinners, unless it's something grabbed after activity. One really good one that has worked for me is a walk through a cool neighborhood, going in and out of shops and galleries, and then heading to a nice restaurant, sitting at the bar and sharing a couple of appetizers and wine. Has the advantages of sharing a meal and wine sitting close to each other without the formalities and expense of a full-blown sitdown dinner. Can usually do this at even expensive restaurants for under $40, sometimes well under. Am considering a large, local Farmer's Market for first dates on the next internet dating go-round. True; the formal dinner 1st date is classic, but well... formal. I wouldn't skip it simply because it makes it easier to never call her again if things don't go well, but the drawback is that the initial formality needs to be punched through later... Mix and match to your personality. In any case, the key to the so called "social skills" is to realise that it's okay to just sit on the porch, relax, and talk about nothing in particular.
Author Vertex Posted January 4, 2010 Author Posted January 4, 2010 But most importantly -- is she Asian??? :lmao: She is, actually.
Green Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Think of online dating as an added step, for me this added step makes online dating worthless. The added step is that you truely start from scratch when you meet in person, all online dating does is work as an ice breaker to get two people togather. So arange something low pressure like meeting in a bookstore or coffee place what ever and its basicly like you saw a girl on the street you wanted to meet and the ice breaker you are using is we talked online... the sooner you turn it real world the better because the more you invest online the more pressure and more awkward the first meeting will be. When I was single I would just walk up to girls I found pretty and start a conversation. If I hadn't just walked up to and started talking to my current gf chances are i would never have had the great pleasure of knowing and loving her... so just remember you have nothing to lose, you can't fake confidence, so even if your scared just the fact that you a putting urself out there makes u seem confident.
InspiredbyYou Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Am considering a large, local Farmer's Market for first dates on the next internet dating go-round. "Feel my tomatoes, do you think I paid a good price for these?" "Considering the size of my English cucumber, I think they are well valued."
jerbear Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 But I mean, even the little things... I am totally clueless. Do you hug someone you're meeting for a first date when you meet? Handshake? What on earth do you guys do/say to get things rolling? It's this first-time-meeting transition stuff that murders me. Vertex, you work in a corporate conglomerate where there must be thousands of young women working in admin and operations. Go for a walk one day and do some scouting. Go to the company functions, join the baseball or other teams. Volunteer to help with charitable events. Get your profile out there. If nothing else, it will help you network. Hey Vertex! I would consider TBF's idea. I've met SO MANY people this way. Online dating only gives so much and with an shopping list, women will check things off even before meeting you. Now if you met them in person then your personality kicks in and some of the items on the list goes away. I've been on dates with women who would have rejected me online but said yes IRL to a few dates. You also get to meet people that ARE NOT using online dating. Some examples are CFOs, financial people, workaholics (:lmao:), and many of them are VERY attractive. :love: Honestly, I did not know she was the CFO of the company! Really I didn't! :lmao: TBF, I'm going to use you as example. You won't meet an TBF through "online dating" but rather in person. Online dating can be used to augment your real life searches. By networking I was able to connect with the TBF's of the world and pursue. Furthermore, if you can meet the TBF's of the world in person your both at each others social-economic circles or close to it. If you meet them once, you'll most likely meet them again and the rest of the circles. Remember your academic background opens doors to circles other people don't have. *hint* *hint*
meerkat stew Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 "Feel my tomatoes, do you think I paid a good price for these?" "Considering the size of my English cucumber, I think they are well valued." Uh-huh. You get the idea, and the beauty of it is that it starts so very innocently, yet can progress subtly into some real fun while switching gears back and forth from flirtation to plain humor depending on the mood of the participants. The old cliche' is that "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach," but the lesser known corollary is "The way to a woman's heart is through her sensual experience of food." Which is why 8 kadjillion women still watch 9 1/2 weeks from time to time!
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