Does it change when women get to their 30's?

January 4, 2010

I don't think women date losers, I think it's a myth perpetuated by men who can't get a date to make them feel better. After all one person’s loser can be another person’s treasure.

January 4, 2010

Until I was about 25 all I was only interested in was snowboarder, skater, surfer types. Were they bad boys? Perhaps, they were too cool for their own good, I rejected any guy who did not look sound and dress and play the part of what I just mentioned.

This kind of preference doesn't seem to be what OP and others are talking about, they seem to be complaining more about women who choose poor quality men over and over. Nothing about young, "too cool," athletic guys is necessarily a bad choice unless there are bad traits in addition.

My frustrations at that age were that many women crawled all over drug dealers and petty criminals who were complete and utter losers in life, but got women because they had lots of time in their empty lives to pay infinite attention to a GF and spend 4 hours a day in the gym and tanning bed. Then, once those poor choices had consequences, the women would do a complete about-face and suddenly become "Suzy Homemaker" and expect to be completely accepted as such by guys they had turned down previously.

January 4, 2010

No, what I mean is that if a woman sleeps with a guy who is trash, she shouldn't have the nerve to make a good guy wait. When a woman gives up sex to a man, the speed she gives it up with is a testament to how much she likes the man. If a woman gives it up to a scumbag in one day, and a good man after 20 dates, this is essentially saying she is only going out with the good man because she has to.

According to some women who do this, it's the other way around.

You can believe it or think they are nuts but here it goes.

Women can have ONS's or have sex on the first date, but are also capable of waiting weeks or months with another man.

If all they want is casual sex, they don't wait because what kind of person the guy is, what hobbies he has, etc. are not important. They want a guy who turns them on. Plain and simple.

If they are looking for a serious relationship, they make the guy wait because:

a) they don't want the guy to think they are easy.

b) they want to get to know the guy to see if he would make a good bf without sex and hormones (Oxytocin) clouding their judgment.

To be fair, men are doing this all the time. And there is sometimes a double standard. Some men lie to get sex and they don't think of themselves as easy (or a male slut) when they sleep with a woman, but think of the woman as a slut for giving up sex so early.

It's the way women say, "you're not good enough to give me your seed, but whatever, I'll let you raise whatever mystery I give birth to if you pay'. From the point of view of natural instinct and law, this is the gravest insult to a man and his genes.

If you are worried about raising another man's child, you can always do a DNA test.

I was making the second point. Why should they be held to a different standard?

I don't think they should. That said, the standard has IMO less to do with a timetable, rather with compatibility in terms of: "What does sex mean to me?"

Is it an itch to scratch or is it an expression of love and/or affection? Is casual sex okay, or is sex something that you should only have in committed, exclusive relationships?

It would, because it would mean women who aren't worthwhile would not waste my time or any other decent guys time.

Sure, but how is the woman to know what kind of guy you are. You could be a guy who wants sex on the first date, a ONS or FWB. You could be looking for sex only, you could be looking for a relationship and sex on the first date or you could be looking for a relationship and sex after getting to know each other for a while. The list goes on.

If you don't want to waste your time with a woman who you think did disgusting things in the past, you have to ask her about her sexual history.

Plenty of women will run for the hills if you do that, or tell you it's none of your business. That's okay, they weren't the right woman for you.

Unfortunately, there are also some women who will lie to you if you ask them about their past. That is a risk you have to take and you have to rely on your instinct whether or not you believe them.

It would also discourage women from thinking they could "have their cake and eat it too" if men only used women who act that way in their 20's like the worthless whores they are .

What about the men who use women for sex?

Are those men still decent guys who deserve a woman who wasn't a "worthless whore"?

January 4, 2010

Goodin to answer your question, I have changed significantly over the years I am 38 and there is an element of truth to what you said in the OP, at least for me there was. Until I was about 25 all I was only interested in was snowboarder, skater, surfer types. Were they bad boys? Perhaps, they were too cool for their own good, I rejected any guy who did not look sound and dress and play the part of what I just mentioned. I dated a pro skater(by skater I mean skateboard not gaylord figure skaters lol) and plenty snow boarders. I grew out of that eventually and as my career started to take off and I began to mature so did my tastes in men.[/Quote]

I really can't fathom how a 25 year old woman can think a man-infant with the same hobbies as Bart Simpson can possibly be "cool" or "badass". Actually, you might have thought I was hot when I was a 14 year old skateboarder with blue hair. 14 was also the year I grew out of that phase

This is the type of stuff I mean when I say women date retards. I don't act, dress and ride like a skateboarder, not because I'm not capable of it or too "square", but instead because i'm a 21 year old man who grew out of that baby ****.

January 4, 2010

It shrinks my dating pool because almost all the women my age fall under your definition of "unstable women". The ones who are nice girls who like real men and value guys like me, are already taken or not physically attracted to me. If there were more women like that, instead of how few there are, it would mean more girls and hence a greater chance of finding someone.

How is it anyone's fault that the women you want to date are already taken? Complaining about it isn't going to make them single. Look harder.

I don't have a choice, no. It's not a matter of survival, but not having a meaningful female to touch or carress for 6 months to a year at a time is pretty painful emotionally and physically for a young man.

That's why you have two hands.

What should I do given my choices? Nothing. Nothing I can do, I can't change the world. My goal is to leave America for one of the countries I've visisted and lived in and noticed how different the women (and people in general) are, and hopefully there I will be able to get married and have a family. I wouldn't mind having something in the mean time while I raise funds for my big move though, it could take anywhere from 2-5 years (I'm broke), but que sera sera.

sounds like you want to string some girl along and use her for sex until you can move to this other country to find the real woman of your dreams. Doesn't that sort of make you the exact guy you're complaining about and also "ruin" some other girl for future prospects?

Because all the women are taken, sluts, or too picky. I'm very passionate because it hinders my romantic life.

ALL woman. EVERYWHERE. In the ENTIRE world, that you would date are taken. Either get over your lack of love life, or loosen your standards. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

January 4, 2010

This kind of preference doesn't seem to be what OP and others are talking about, they seem to be complaining more about women who choose poor quality men over and over. Nothing about young, "too cool," athletic guys is necessarily a bad choice unless there are bad traits in addition.

I thought he asked about bad boys. These men that I mentioned were bad boys, they were "badder" than the types of boys I typically go for. They were party monsters who lived life on the edge and were very flippant and "player-like" they were not full on players but they could have a lot of women if they wanted, that kind of thing did appeal to me back then. I dated a surfer dude that had a motorcyle when I was 19, I don't know how my I parents allowed that, oh right I know how...I would sneak out of the house and meet him half way down the block and hide from my parents that we were on his bike. He rode like an idiot and I thought it was SO cool, yuck! what a loser mentality I had when I was young!

So I think this is totally relevant to the discussion.

January 4, 2010

My frustrations at that age were that many women crawled all over drug dealers and petty criminals who were complete and utter losers in life, but got women because they had lots of time in their empty lives to pay infinite attention to a GF and spend 4 hours a day in the gym and tanning bed. Then, once those poor choices had consequences, the women would do a complete about-face and suddenly become "Suzy Homemaker" and expect to be completely accepted as such by guys they had turned down previously.

If this women truly exists out there in the world, I've never met her. None of my friends have ever been "that" girl. Perhaps you are looking in the wrong social circle or something?

January 4, 2010

So I think this is totally relevant to the discussion.

Never said it was irrelevant, and I certainly won't be the one to throw "off-topic" stones while living in my glass house.

January 4, 2010

I really can't fathom how a 25 year old woman can think a man-infant with the same hobbies as Bart Simpson can possibly be "cool" or "badass". Actually, you might have thought I was hot when I was a 14 year old skateboarder with blue hair. 14 was also the year I grew out of that phase

Relax, he was a PRO skater. How is that being a man-infant?

Have you seen where Tony Hawk and Shaun White live?

January 4, 2010

If this women truly exists out there in the world, I've never met her. None of my friends have ever been "that" girl. Perhaps you are looking in the wrong social circle or something?

You need to get out more then, it's pervasive and has nothing to do with the "wrong social circle," as at my age, my social circle is more like a "social galaxy." Was talking primarily about frustrations way in the past anyway.

Learning how to date intelligently by increasing display (approaches) and working on attraction skills will alleviate this problem entirely, as I've told cognac over and over. He's not putting enough effort into approaches to cull out the 80% quickly and find enough of the 20%. (and yes, 80% of men are "bad apples" too, I'm an equal opportunity misanthrope).

January 4, 2010

When some of the male posters say that when women get into their 30s they start wanting men with 'money' please define by what you mean by 'money' like as in wealthy rich money?

I know men in their 30s who say that women are all after money but usually these come from men who are still living in somebody's basement and who can't hold down a fulltime job. They get mad when women want the basement requirements from a man, and they lash out because they cannot provide it.

I see nothing wrong with a woman wanting a man who is very financially stable. If she thinks a man who makes good money is more important than so what? Who wants to get into a marriage with someone who has bad credit and makes minimum wage

January 4, 2010

How is it anyone's fault that the women you want to date are already taken? Complaining about it isn't going to make them single. Look harder.[/Quote]

Look harder? Why do women give guys this kind of advice? "Look harder, find a girl who you like, etc "? The only place I HAVEN'T looked in is at church, and personally while I like a lot of aspects of religious women, I strongly dislike others .I don't feel you need to be particularly religious to have some self-respect and values.

And yes it is their fault, because if more women were like the 1% of women who like real men, aren't hung up on money and material possessions, aren't excruciatingly picky about looks, and are content with a man as long as he is a fun companion and lover, then there would be a far better chance that the girls I like and would have a chance with (if they were single) would be more plentiful and hence a greater chance of them being single.

That's why you have two hands. [/Quote]

Trust me, Pamela Handerson gets old and does not fill that companionship void that is ingrained in our instinct.

sounds like you want to string some girl along and use her for sex until you can move to this other country to find the real woman of your dreams. Doesn't that sort of make you the exact guy you're complaining about and also "ruin" some other girl for future prospects?[/Quote]

Hmm, like I said, I'm not a puritan. I don't think having sex with a woman you're in a relationship with sullies her (although in an ideal world, women would wait until marriage). There is a difference between two people who like eachother beyond penis and vagina going out and having sex, and women going out to the nightclub or college frat parties or whatever and just sleeping with a guy because he has a six pack.

Yes, I would prefer some female companionship in the coming years before I leave, and sexual relations are part of the package of companionship. Don't think it's the same as a guy who just wants some poon.

ALL woman. EVERYWHERE. In the ENTIRE world, that you would date are taken. Either get over your lack of love life, or loosen your standards. You can't have your cake and eat it too.[/Quote]

Obviously not in the world, but for the most part this is true. I can't possibly meet every woman in the world, so technically you're right.

My standards are already pretty loose. If I loosen them any more i'll be going on a date with a girl who looks like Roseanne and acts like Carrie Bradshaw.

Relax, he was a PRO skater. How is that being a man-infant?
Have you seen where Tony Hawk and Shaun White live?[/Quote]

If you are a grown man, and you ride a skateboard, you are a man-baby or have a mental development problem (probably caused by heavy marijuana use in teenage years). Period.

Tony Hawk and Shaun White have a lot of money, so what? IS that how you judge the value or contributions of a person, by how much money some corporation gives them? Having a big house doesn't impress me in the least. If anything, it's a testament from how stupid and backwards our society is, there are teachers in rural parts of America who have to hitchhike in the freezing cold every day just to get to work (because the system pays them crap), while Tony Hawk lives in luxury for doing something meant for 13 year old children. Worse than tony hawk, are the dopes over the age of 13 who think he's cool.

I think acting my age and like a man is far more satisfying than having a big house or millions of dollars.

January 4, 2010

I think acting my age and like a man is far more satisfying than having a big house or millions of dollars.

Yeah, America is probably the wrong place for you. I had better luck in Europe and the CIS.

Learning a lot but don't have much to add as I'm a bit sick today. Great reading though

January 4, 2010

Look harder? Why do women give guys this kind of advice?

You have said yourself that you only met five new women last year, or sorry if I'm confusing you with a different poster. This isn't enough to dig up much quality. It's like walking up to a pond and fishing for five minutes and claiming there are no fish there because nothing bit during that five minutes.

January 4, 2010

I'm finding the trend continues well into the 30s and probably beyond. The majority of women in their late 30s on the dating site I'm on seem more mature and more interesting to talk to than those that are close to 30.

Does anyone else see this or do others find it not to be the case? My sample size is still too small to draw any conclusions.

January 4, 2010

Yeah, America is probably the wrong place for you. I had better luck in Europe and the CIS.

Learning a lot but don't have much to add as I'm a bit sick today. Great reading though

Yeah I know.

From what I've noticed, the women who aren't as interested in retards like skateboarders, guys who wear backwards baseball hats, etc, are generally the uptight, career oriented, "I want a guy with 7 figures" overachiever types. I like those chicks even less than the sorority sluts.

Just no women for me. I'm mature, but not uptight and boring. I'm traditional, but with a rebellious streak. I'm tender towards women i love, but don't hesitate to put my foot down if they piss me off. There doesn't seem to be anyone out there who is my match, yet I've met a relatively ample amount of males (my best friends) who have personalities like mine. Wish I was gay

Are women simply less complex than men in terms of their personalities, or do they purposely try to fit into a certain mold/label?

January 4, 2010

If this women truly exists out there in the world, I've never met her. None of my friends have ever been "that" girl. Perhaps you are looking in the wrong social circle or something?

Well, let's see: my ex, bachelor degree from CalTech, doctorate from another prestigious engineering school has dated:

- a college dropout with no future, no prospects, and no job

- (made out within hours of meeting him and attempted to date) an ex-photographer, now illegal immigrant working odd jobs

But both of them were good looking and part of a party scene that you would think no longer appeal to a 25 year old highly educated woman, but there you go. And these are only the particular 2 jewels I am aware of .

I met her at 25 and was with her for 5 years before she reverted to her old ways - i.e. dumping me for no reason, and then dating THE weakest student her program has ever seen. But, he was 25, good looking, talked a lot, and was the life of the party.

Oh, and I forgot to mention - when she met me I was drinking a lot, negelected my studies, got arrested. I guess I got boring and uncomfortable after I cleaned up my act and expected the same from her.

January 4, 2010

Tony Hawk and Shaun White have a lot of money, so what? IS that how you judge the value or contributions of a person, by how much money some corporation gives them?

.

No Loopdeloops, it's how I judge when someone makes a hobby a living, hence being "pro" at something.

January 4, 2010

Cognac...the only problem I see is your attitude.

If you ask me, I'd get away from dating period for a while. Stop looking, stop dealing with women, find a happiness alone and that whole thing I keep saying about planning your life as if you never find anyone. You remind me of the many guys who get frustrated and put a lot of pressure and way too much work on trying to get a female to like them.

I don't know what you do when you meet women or how you handle yourself, but if you're going to long periods of time and everyone is rejecting you (from the beautiful to the not-so beautiful) then it's clearly things about you and how you handle yourself that are the problem.

If you're leaving the country for change, start over, better job, etc...awesome. If you're leaving thinking you'll find a magical land of hot model-esque women who will marry average joes and give them sex anytime the man asks as well as cook and clean for them...then you're fooling yourself. I've been to parts of Europe that guys think are full of these fantasy women. You get the plain janes who are reluctant to foreigners and the shallow princesses who want a sugar daddy. Things don't change overseas.

January 4, 2010

No Loopdeloops, it's how I judge when someone makes a hobby a living, hence being "pro" at something.

So something ceases to be idiotic when you can make a living doing it? Hmm let me go back to the stuff I thought was cool when I was 12-13. Are WWF wrestlers cool?

While Tony Hawk can make a living off sketeboarding, at the end of the day, he is still a 40 something who wears a backwards baseball cap and rides a wheelie board. I think it's pretty safe to say that making a lot of money in America, doesn't at all mean you contribute anything worthwhile to the world. If it did Kim Kardashian and Puff Daddy would be on line at the local food bank.

January 4, 2010

I've been to parts of Europe that guys think are full of these fantasy women. You get the plain janes who are reluctant to foreigners and the shallow princesses who want a sugar daddy. Things don't change overseas.

I found the cultures to be far different from that here in the US and the behaviors and emotional styles of the ladies in my age group (30's-40's during that period) to be more compatible. I also found men to be more compatible (as friends). I think, if the OP has visited, especially if he's immersed, meaning stayed/worked there for awhile, and finds the environment to be more compatible, well, it's a small world

There are a lot of ex-pats out there who agree with that.

From the PM's I get, it doesn't sound strictly male either. Women are expanding their geographical horizons to find compatible mates too. Good on them

January 4, 2010

I'm originally from a (recent)EU-member country. Now, after attaining a degree of material comfort I'm beginning to regret the decision to move here (a degree of introspection which is of course only possible when you begin to take the fat paycheck for granted). My sentiment is best summarized by my brother in law: "America is a great place to work, but a horrible place for the soul". 9 years ago I didn't listen, now I'm convinced that he's right. Since it would be too much pain in the azz to move back at this point, I've resorted to the 2nd best solution - date a foreign (asian) girl. We're not necessarily ideally compatible, but I surely feel way better than with any US girl (i've had limited, and deeply unsatisfying exposure). There is certain feminine mellowness and compassion that seems to be completely lost in the stereotypical US girl...

January 4, 2010

Cognac...the only problem I see is your attitude.

If you ask me, I'd get away from dating period for a while. Stop looking, stop dealing with women, find a happiness alone and that whole thing I keep saying about planning your life as if you never find anyone. You remind me of the many guys who get frustrated and put a lot of pressure and way too much work on trying to get a female to like them.

I don't know what you do when you meet women or how you handle yourself, but if you're going to long periods of time and everyone is rejecting you (from the beautiful to the not-so beautiful) then it's clearly things about you and how you handle yourself that are the problem.

If you're leaving the country for change, start over, better job, etc...awesome. If you're leaving thinking you'll find a magical land of hot model-esque women who will marry average joes and give them sex anytime the man asks as well as cook and clean for them...then you're fooling yourself. I've been to parts of Europe that guys think are full of these fantasy women. You get the plain janes who are reluctant to foreigners and the shallow princesses who want a sugar daddy. Things don't change overseas.

I dunno, I think things do change overseas. Yeah so men are men and women are women wherever you go, but then there are cultural differences and beliefs regarding sex, dating etc. which can have an impact. Going to the States for the first time was a revelation for me, men kept asking me out on dates, giving me business cards, telling me how much they earned, what property they owned - as in 'I own a vinyard, and I own a house right on the beach' blah blah. I found it all a bit confusing to be honest, why are they telling me this stuff??? I'm not saying it's like that all over the States, but the little taste of dating State-side that I had was very different than in Europe (and I loved it!!! random guys asking you out, fantastic!!)

I do agree though that if you leave somewhere to leave your troubles behind you tend to find that those troubles tend to find you and lurk around ruining your new life. Sort out the issues first, then move and reap the rewards here or there.

sorry...nothing to do with orignial post about women in 30's...which I did comment on earlier, but I just had to chip in. Now carry on all.

January 4, 2010

So something ceases to be idiotic when you can make a living doing it? Hmm let me go back to the stuff I thought was cool when I was 12-13. Are WWF wrestlers cool?

While Tony Hawk can make a living off sketeboarding, at the end of the day, he is still a 40 something who wears a backwards baseball cap and rides a wheelie board. I think it's pretty safe to say that making a lot of money in America, doesn't at all mean you contribute anything worthwhile to the world. If it did Kim Kardashian and Puff Daddy would be on line at the local food bank.

Well yes. Would you think that Mick Jagger is the same as the 50 yr old busker at the buss stop? Mick Jagger is a musician and leads a rock and roll lifestyle, old or not, he walks the talk. Some 50 yr old busker begging for money hasn't quite come to terms with the fact that his career is NOT going to be in rock and roll, and yet he should.

At 21 or 25 it's a lot to ask of a young guy to give up his dreams. Let's get some perspective here shall we?

Tony Hawk, walks the talk therefore he can wear whatever the hell he wants and he is still true to who he is. He is a professional skater, do you want him to wear a suit and tie and Prada Oxfords when he skates or does appearances?

Anyway you are taking this way too personally, I wonder did a skateboard try to strangle you in your sleep perhaps and that's why the trauma?

January 4, 2010

Well, let's see: my ex, bachelor degree from CalTech, doctorate from another prestigious engineering school has dated:
- a college dropout with no future, no prospects, and no job
- (made out within hours of meeting him and attempted to date) an ex-photographer, now illegal immigrant working odd jobs
But both of them were good looking and part of a party scene that you would think no longer appeal to a 25 year old highly educated woman, but there you go. And these are only the particular 2 jewels I am aware of .
I met her at 25 and was with her for 5 years before she reverted to her old ways - i.e. dumping me for no reason, and then dating THE weakest student her program has ever seen. But, he was 25, good looking, talked a lot, and was the life of the party.
Oh, and I forgot to mention - when she met me I was drinking a lot, negelected my studies, got arrested. I guess I got boring and uncomfortable after I cleaned up my act and expected the same from her.

Wow, you even managed to date one. That sucks. They mutually sound crazy....I guess if that floats their boat....

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